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I was flashed doing 36 in a 30 back in August.
I opted to take a speed awareness course which is tomorrow.
What can I expect?
A whole heap of abuse on here 😉
To learn some things.
To meet lots of very bitter people. I think I was the only person on my course glad to be there as I was expecting a court summons...
To be patronised mercilessly for a few hours.
To encounter a few angry people who have decided to argue with the instructor about the circumstances around their particular speeding incident.
Sit quietly at the back, bite your tongue
Even though the "instructors" pretty much lie about everything, do the "sit at the back" thing, and be glad you didn't get any other punishment!
(oh, and pay more attention next time you're driving!) 😉
I went in extremely cynical and bitter. Surprisingly I found it quite interesting though.
+1 for the being patronised
A lot will depend on whoever is presenting the course
Sit quietly at the back, bite your tongue
^This is what I had planned.
^This is what I had planned
Or go with an open mind and stand a chance of learning something?
To be patronised mercilessly for a few hours
Not in my experience.
Mine was excellent, very informative and well delivered.
bite your tongue
Because you know best right ?
The instructor on mine was horriffic - significant chunks of what she said just didn't make any sense at all (both in terms of content and vocabulary)...... one poor sod who asked her quite innocently and politely what she meant on one occasion was threatened to be ejected from the room and taken to court.
bite your tongue
Because you know best right ?
Yawn
Do your ears and mouth not work independently of each other? Most people can listen without speaking.
the line above was:
To encounter a few angry people who have decided to argue with the instructor about the circumstances around their particular speeding incident.
Not in my experience either Simon
One or two people will argue the toss about everything, thinking everyone is with them, everyone just wishes they'd just shut the **** up.
The clown, who's not funny (probably one of the above).
One who feels massively injusticed (probably one of the above).
Everyone else just accepts they're there and gets on with it, sees it thru and goes home. I learnt a few things I didn't previously know.
Do your ears and mouth not work independently of each other? Most people can listen without speaking.
"Bite your tongue" suggests you have something you want to get off your chest, but don't for whatever reason.
One or two people will argue the toss about everything, thinking everyone is with them, everyone just wishes they'd just shut the **** up.
Oh this all day long.^^^
On mine, I got chatting to a guy before we went in and had a lot in common, so we just hung at the back consuming all the complimentary biscuits and sparkling water we could. Anyway, we stayed in touch and is now a good mate.
True story.
Listen, answer a question if asked. They will go through the rationale for speed cameras and stress accident statistics and dangers of speed. It's very very hard to fail, but if you argue the t0ss about everything you will fail.
BTW I read something interesting today, revenue from fines goes to the government but revenue from speed awareness courses goes to the police.
Embarrassingly I've been twice. The first one I quite enjoyed, the next one has slightly different content and was delivered differently, but was still fine.
I think it's the sort of thing all drivers should do regardless. Lots of it wasn't covered or discussed when I learnt to drive. No idea if you need to know this stuff in the theory test.
If you are lucky and get a good instructor who tries to make it relevant and interesting you might learn something. A lot of the people on the course I went on suddenly discovered they could drive 10 mph faster on A roads legally because they all thought the national speed limit on single carriageway roads was 50 mph. One guy found (too late as he'd obviously accepted the conviction) that his speeding conviction was technically not legal as the speed signage where he was done was not regulation.
Lots of it wasn't covered or discussed when I learnt to drive. No idea if you need to know this stuff in the theory test.
What sort of thing?
Genuinely interested, as someone who firmly believes that all drivers should be re-tested at regular intervals (say every five years).
All good advice so far, mine would be try to learn and don't be a *
Classic story here from a few years ago :-
Speed awareness course, arrogant so and so turns up in a brand new Cayenne and obviously didn't want to be there. Constantly on the phone texting, e mailing and being told to put phone down. He replied with a " I've a business to run and cant be here " type attitude.
After a few run ins with the instructors and being warned about his attitude, the afternoon session was in car out on the road working on looking ahead, planning etc.
After the session, everyone back in the classroom, matey is again on the phone e mailing texting so the instructor asked him what he had gained from the afternoon session. His reply of " don't buy a *ing Nissan Note " ( instructors car ) didn't go down well and he was sacked off the course and given the points.
True story from one of my colleagues who used to deliver the courses.
Judging by work colleagues who have done the course, it taught them some information, so didn't think it was a wasted day. Dont say you have driven at 200 mph and have faster reaction times than most and 56 in a 50 was a bit harsh , as one of my engineers did. 😀
He does ride a 1400bhp drag bike at Pod.......
The course will go much faster than you think.
I went as a professional driver and learnt a few things that improved my driving, look at it as free training and take from it what you can.
Went on one recently and it was actually pretty good, two guys presenting had some patter going and there was some interesting stuff delivered in ways i hadn't seen before. 10/10 (ironically enough i do driver training in my co. and we use the brake stuff, which is dry as a witches tit, I also got caught speeding rushing from delivering an eco-driver briefing to a safety team meeting :D).
Expect to learn a lot.
Expect some attendees to remain as stupid and dangerous as they were when they went in... but really, that's not your problem.
I felt the same as after my Bikeability - surprised at how much I learnt and glad I'd done it.
+1 for GrahamS idea re complusory re-testing every five years. It'd be a great revenue earner for government and probably reduce the bill for running an ambulance fleet and A&E, bring insurance premiums down etc etc
look at it as free training
Cost me £90 🙁
To be patronised mercilessly for a few hours.To encounter a few angry people who have decided to argue
One or two people will argue the toss about everything, thinking everyone is with them, everyone just wishes they'd just shut the **** up
So posting on here will stand you in good stead 😉
Or go with an open mind and stand a chance of learning something?
Word. I suppose you might find it patronising if you know everything, but if you go there with an open mind and the awareness that you DON'T know everything, you might find it both useful and interesting, like I did. 🙂
I've not been on one myself, but was at a hotel where the conference room was being used for the course.
I walked in by mistake. It was the oddest collection of people - teenage racers with tattoos sitting next to grey haired grandmas.
One of two things will happen, if previous threads are anything to go by.
1) You stand to learn a great deal, if you're a clueless dolt who hasn't looked at the Highway Code in 20 years.
2) You'll be mortified at the clueless doltishness of everyone else in the room if you can actually drive a bit.
As a random example, on the one I did one young lad 'fessed up that he didn't know any road signs bar the half dozen he knew would be on the test. He found this hilarious. Similarly yuks-a-plenty was the woman who'd driven a cyclist off the road and looked like she was expecting a round of applause.
What can I expect?
I'm disowning you 😉
Never been on one either but mate at work went on one last week and it sounds like the sitting at the back and biting your tongue/trying not to fall asleep is definitely the way to go.
2) You'll be mortified at the clueless doltishness of everyone else in the room if you can actually drive a bit.
Which I a valuable lesson to learn, anyway. It puts a whole new perspective on driving (or, worse, riding) in the middle of this lot.
Rachel
The one I did recently was enlivened by some idiot petrolhead who wore his favourite 'racing' jumper which had badges of all the motor racing companies and teams on it and then proceeded to question and argue about everything. I nearly rose to the bait when he said cyclists were pillocks, but by the end, his arguing held things up so long that everyone else hated him and were calling him names under their breaths 🙂
You'll be mortified at the clueless doltishness of everyone else in the room if you can actually drive a bit.
+1. The majority of people in mine just didn't have a clue about the responsibility they have as drivers. Comments like 'how am I supposed to know what the speed limit was' were quite common.
I feel like I'm missing out by not having an opinion on these. Still I should be grateful I don't have to attend.
My wife went on one several years ago, she had some useful information passed on and told me some things about it too, sounded good.
I'd agree that we should have to do something like this periodically to keep our licences anyway.
Don't announce you're a cyclist. The ****ers will all turn on you. Probably the instructors too.
I found mine OK (66 in a 60). As with most people on there, went in thinking I'd learn nothing, ended up with some useful non Highway Code type facts.
The instructors were good, didn't patronise, and it wasn't even a full day.
1 guy was thrown out of the one I went on. The instructor told him not to come back after lunch.
Another old guy failed.
I have no idea how you can fail a course like that.
Allthgear +2 !
It is terrifying the number of people who haven't a clue what the speed limit is on a given type of road. I left with an improved knowledge of reading the road and an acute awareness that a significant number of people are dangerous on the road and need to be given more space.
The instructors on my course were entertaining and knowledgable and dealt well with questions asked, regardless how stupid.
It is pretty clear that the driving test isn't a full assessment of a drivers ability and I agree that there should be mandatory retests every 5 years.
The driving test needs to cover considerably more than it currently does!
Everyone wonders how the likes of the Finns are such good drivers, rally and race - take a look at how long it takes to get a license....
3 YEARS!
Covering every type of weather and each season.
To think that its ok to let Junior take a 90min test in september and then go out on the M'ways in the fog, heavy rain, snow, etc come november/december is utter bollocks.
😯
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Listen be polite and try to ensure everyone else does the same. On mine had a number of people moaning all the way through how they don't speed / barely drive/ first time ever been speeding so on and so on. It got so bad one guy on my table stood up three quarters of the way through told people to shut up moaning - we where here for a reason, we have all been caught speeding!!!, and the sooner accept that, allow the instructor to deliver the important message the sooner we could go home. This was roughly after 5 hours!!! Three people in the room applauded him when he sat down and the instructor thanked him!!!
hammyuk +1
Our initial training and tests are woeful.
I passed my test at 17, 8 weeks after my birthday, and the day after I passed I drove Audi 100 estate with 22ft keelboat on trailer over from Cumbria to North East - via Alston. W.T.F. was I thinking (and the chap who insured and loaned me his wifes car?).... It worries me with three lads who will all be eligible to drive within 6 years....
Our ongoing professional stuff also needs looking at - if you are driving others for a living, you should have a higher standard of driving competence and knowledge. Personally, in light of the Glasgow Bin Lorry incident, I think a 5 or 10 year update, retest and medical would be a start.
I think a 5 or 10 year update, retest and medical would be a start.
My 2p:
- Full retest + medical every 10 years.
- Highway code/virtual test every 5 years (the ones where you have to watch a video and spot hazards etc)
- Obligatory full re-test if two or more offences in a year
- Mandatory minimum life ban if you kill/seriously injure someone due to dangerous/careless driving.
That would just about do it I reckon. The main message people need to understand is that driving is not a frivolous thing, and should be taken seriously.
so who here has [i]not[/i] had points/speed awareness course/done for speeding?
24yrs of driving and nothing for me. Mind you, I dont live in Derbyshire or North Wales, which having been through a couple of times appears to be entirely under the gaze of Gatsos.
That's not how it read to me, i think I'd have difficulty not telling some arsey driver to STFU if they were whining/talking shite, mind you I'd probably have similar difficulty in not asking the instructor to clarify something if I thought they might be incorrect."Bite your tongue" suggests you have something you want to get off your chest, but don't for whatever reason.
I'd hope most instructors were very professional and knew their stuff, aslong as they do then if they adopt a patronising manner you can't really complain too much, as you're there for a reason eh?
]
<edit> plus what Dazh said about retests, I'd also suggest an immediate retest (temp ban until the test) if you seriously injure someone, just to check you still know what you [i]should[/i] be doing, irrespective of any later court action/sentence.
Mine was fine... just sat at the back, listened - maybe learned a couple of bits.
One thing I didn't get and queried was when they started talking about stopping distances which apparently haven't change since the Highway Code was done. They made the point that technology in cars had improved reducing the braking distance but the reaction time had gone up because of the extra distractions we have inside our cars. Seemed like BS that bit. I didn't want to be a smart-arse but had to ask how they were able to quantify that and why the splits on the stopping distance in the code hadn't changed as a result if this were true. They didn't have an answer and basically told me to pipe down.
I guess the instructor probably should have gone with "despite top gear shenanigans the official stopping distances haven't been revised so we're sticking with those until it's properly researched, revised and validated." Then if you continued to disagree use the "pipe down" line 🙂They didn't have an answer and basically told me to pipe down.
ended up with some useful non Highway Code type facts.
That's a reasonable point actually. One of the more interesting bits was a "case study" of sorts about how many people are affected by a bad collision, down to the partners of road workers who have to listen to horror stories and so on.
My Mrs went on one and from the course taught me '3rd gear in a 30' - it works surprisingly well.
One thing I didn't get and queried
The one I challenged was the assertion that because I answered 'above average' in rating my own driving ability, I was "overconfident." Nothing to do with being overconfident, rather that the 'average' road user is a gibbon and I wouldn't trust them to be in charge of their own socks.
for?it works surprisingly well.
everyone is 🙂I answered 'above average' in rating my own driving ability
My Mrs went on one and from the course taught me '3rd gear in a 30' - it works surprisingly well.
I'm surprised at that. It's totally different to what the driving test teaches you, it's uneconomical driving, and it means you've more acceleration / response. I'd hazard it's harder to hold 30mph in third than fourth.
Besides. If someone's incapable of holding a speed comfortably without resorting to undergearing, they should probably consider more practice or further lessons. I reckon I could hit 30mph to a reasonable degree of accuracy without looking at a speedometer at all.
everyone is
Oh, sure. That was the point they were making I think, everyone thinks they're of above average ability. They didn't state it explicitly but it's basically the Dunning-Kruger Effect.
Where the logic falls down and what they refused to acknowledge is that by definition almost half of the drivers on the road actually [i]are[/i] above average.
'3rd gear in a 30'
Whilst I agree, you can see how confusing it is, as my car's computer tells me to change to 4th at 25, and 5th at about 35, and 6th at 45. I usually ignore it, but it's quite annoying having the bloody car tell you how to drive. Of course it would be much more useful if instead of telling you that you're in the wrong gear, it told you when you were going above the limit, which considering GPS technology shouldn't be difficult to do.
so who here has not had points/speed awareness course/done for speeding?
Looks like just me and you then. Saints eh?
I reckon I could hit 30mph to a reasonable degree of accuracy without looking at a speedometer at all.
Me too. There is one of those speed displays near home which I regularly drive past. 28-29mph without looking at the speedo. Oh and in fifth not third (what a stupid idea that is).
willyboy - Member
My Mrs went on one and from the course taught me '3rd gear in a 30' - it works surprisingly well
So I shouldn't be in 5th gear in a 30mph zone? (going at 30mph I should add).
I'd hazard it's harder to hold 30mph in third than fourth.
Probably depends on the car, but I've always done the "3rd in 30" thing. Don't think I was specifically taught it but it seems very natural in my car (Focus 2.0L)
2nd in a 20 works pretty well too.
so who here has not had points/speed awareness course/done for speeding?
Me.
But I didn't learn to drive till I was in my 30s and only passed my test in 2007.
so who here has not had points/speed awareness course/done for speeding?24yrs of driving and nothing for me. Mind you, I dont live in Derbyshire or North Wales, which having been through a couple of times appears to be entirely under the gaze of Gatsos.
I wish. Had a licence for 21 years. Been "done" twice:
Once for doing 85 on a dual carriageway (the copper was kind enough - I'd gone well over 90) when I was late for a hockey match. When asked what my job was, I rather sheepishly replied "solicitor". I'd been qualified a week..!
Second time was when somewhat distracted about the exact limit (it had been changed from a 40 to 30 a few weeks before and I just forgot when taking Mrs North urgently to hospital). Attended an awareness course for that one.
The course was very useful and made me a better driver. Surprisingly, I already knew a lot of what they asked us, but clearly wasn't as conscious about that knowledge as I could have been.
@ OP -engage, ask questions and you'll get something out of it. But be very afraid of your fellow attendees..!
Back when I was learning I was taught to change up from 1st to 2nd at 10mph, 3rd at 20mph and into 4th at 30.
30mph in fourth is comfortable enough for cruising along, dunno as I'd fancy being in 5th at that speed, the engine would be labouring badly I'd have thought.
Once for doing 85 (the copper was kind enough - I'd gone well over 90)
Your speedo was probably over-reading by a percentage, you were probably closer to 85 than you think.
That's just given me a sudden thought. When the copper pulled you over and went "you were doing well over 90 mate, but I'm only going to book you for doing 85," I wonder if the truth was that they [i]knew[/i] you thought you were going faster than you actually were and the patter is just a trick to make you feel grateful that you're being 'let off' when it's nothing of the sort. Sneaky buggers.
I answered 'above average' in rating my own driving ability
In which case, you're effectively holding yourself to a higher standard of driving behaviour than everyone else who would just be average.
So if you are involved in a collision/break the law it would be legitimate to apportion more responsibility to you than to the average driver.
compulsory retest
You see, I don;t think this will ever take off. The price of the administrative aggravation of administering, delivering and policing this would far outweigh the benefit. Look at this this way: 2000 deaths a year on the road is a pretty small price to pay for being able to keep a population of 60 odd million people moving around with minimal inconvenience and sizeable autonomy for many of them. (Yes, I'm being glib.)
When the copper pulled you over and went "you were doing well over 90 mate, but I'm only going to book you for doing 85," I wonder if the truth was that they knew you thought you were going faster than you actually were and the patter is just a trick to make you feel grateful that you're being 'let off' when it's nothing of the sort. Sneaky buggers.
I can't remember all the details but the conversation as I sat in the passenger seat of his car was along the lines of "The video screen in this car isn't working - you're more than welcome to come to the station to watch it there. I followed you at 85, so am going to issue you a fixed penalty notice for that."
I know that my speedo had shown over 90, so was happy not to have any further discussion (although you're right about the mythical over reading error!).
I was also told off for using my phone (within the speed limit - I put my foot down after the call*) - this was about a month before the ban came in, so all in all I think I got off lightly.
*as if that somehow makes driving and using a phone any more legitimate..!
They're quite happy to remind me (and admin/police it) that I need to get a new licence every 10years dunno why they can't get me to do a retest while I'm at it. And I know someone who only had to drive 200yards down a straight road to get their licence many years ago, reckon they could do with a retest. Have heard other people doing very very basic tests. BTW 2000 is still too many, the "seriously injured" figure is a lot more on top aswell.The price of the administrative aggravation of administering, delivering and policing this would far outweigh the benefit.
As an after thought is anyone still using the old paper licence? In which case WTF!
Our car seems to be quite low geared (tiny engine) so 30 in 5th on flat or slightly downhill is no problem, engine seems to almost be ticking over rather than labouring, def need to change down for inclines tho.dunno as I'd fancy being in 5th at that speed, the engine would be labouring badly I'd have thought.
Yes, my dad is still using his paper licence. He’s lived at the same address for 60+ years so had no reason to change it. Actually, come to think of it, it isn’t even pink - it’s green! (full licences used to be green, the same as provisional ones)
Rachel
Looks like just me and you then. Saints eh?
I've also never broken a law in my life. 😀
I did get a parking ticket once though. 🙁
ergo WTF! How come I get the joy of doing a full test and having a proper photo id licence and have to renew every 10 years, when (with no disrespect meant to your dad) people who passed when the bar was set much lower also get to keep their moth eaten paper licence for over half a century?Yes, my dad is still using his paper licence.
Even with the modern tests I cannot imagine still having the right to go out and drive my car 30 years later never mind 60, just seems daft.
not even had one of those 😉 but as per Graham didn't pass til I was (nearly) 30 and just 10 years ago last month (hence the licence renewal ranting)I did get a parking ticket once though
I'd hope most instructors were very professional and knew their stuff
Mine were great.
I'd hazard it's harder to hold 30mph in third than fourth.
Give it a try. I don't use third as I'm ok at holding 30 in 4th, but if I knew someone who struggled with it, I'd recommend it.
Back when I was learning I was taught to change up from 1st to 2nd at 10mph, 3rd at 20mph and into 4th at 30.
In my car I change up 3rd to 4th a bit later than that, maybe 35ish (around 3500 rpm).
But don't your figures support 3rd in 30? Given that in a 30 limit you (should) be doing 20 to 30mph?
Look at this this way: 2000 deaths a year on the road is a pretty small price to pay for being able to keep a population of 60 odd million people moving around with minimal inconvenience and sizeable autonomy for many of them. (Yes, I'm being glib.)
Road deaths are not a good indicator of driving standards or the benefits of improving them though.
Road deaths are low due to advances in vehicle and road safety (air bags, impact bars, ABS, crash barriers etc). There are still plenty of collisions and terrible driving. And of course there is the immeasurable damage caused because people are too scared of the roads to cycle or let their kids walk to school or play in the street.
ergo WTF! How come I get the joy of doing a full test and having a proper photo id licence and have to renew every 10 years, when (with no disrespect meant to your dad) people who passed when the bar was set much lower also get to keep their moth eaten paper licence for over half a century?
Even with the modern tests I cannot imagine still having the right to go out and drive my car 30 years later never mind 60, just seems daft.
Are you suggesting you have to be re-examined every 10 years or just apply for a new one and get it?
Just asking, as I have an old paper green one!! Well actually it's pink on the endorsement side.
D0NK - he hasn’t been driving for over half a century, he only passed his test a couple of years before me! 1986 I think.
Paper licences are not that old, really.
Rachel
Give it a try.
Bit tricky at the moment as I'm in a pool car and it's an automatic.
It's just been waffled about on Jeremy 'Daily Fail Live' Vine's show. The bloke that rang in just to say
absolutely astounded me with his dimness; the position is a stupid one (although probably held by many), but to actually gloat about it on a public broadcast is incredible; what on earth does that imbecile think he's going to gain from it? He's weakening his stupid position. It's like a double decker of dumbass!"hur, hur, I just went on it to avoid points, didn't give a monkeys about the content, the government are mugs"
Humanity is screwed.
[i]so who here has not had points/speed awareness course/done for speeding?[/i]
[i]Me.
But I didn't learn to drive till I was in my 30s and only passed my test in 2007. [/i]
So not really trying then.
Been driving since I was 16, so 35 years next birthday - at one stage I was doing +40k miles pa (bikes and cars). Plenty of speeding tickets and the like over the years, most on fast A roads. And never argued one, as I know I'm 'speeding' - in fact I'm on a course in a couple of weeks 😉
One thing I really notice now is how slow everyone is going compared to years gone by. At one time 80mph on a m-way wasn't fast, even at +90mph you'd have plenty of folk overtaking. And on NSL's it seems far too many drivers have settled into 45-50mph, probably just to keep in front of the trucks?
absolutely astounded me with his dimness; the position is a stupid one (although probably held by many), but to actually gloat about it on a public broadcast is incredible
There are plenty of imbeciles around who boast about their speeding habits and wear their fines and points like badges of honour.
Plenty of speeding tickets and the like over the years, most on fast A roads. And never argued one, as I know I'm 'speeding'
Never understood this point of view.
If you don't agree with speed limits then why wouldn't you argue?
And if you do agree with speed limits, why break them?
It's a very queer logic. 😕
so who here has not had points/speed awareness course/done for speeding?24yrs of driving and nothing for me. Mind you, I dont live in Derbyshire or North Wales, which having been through a couple of times appears to be entirely under the gaze of Gatsos.
Coo-ee. Waves from the back with 31 years of driving.
And on NSL's it seems far too many drivers have settled into 45-50mph, probably just to keep in front of the trucks?
I strongly suspect that a lot of it it ignorance; people have no clue what the speed limit is so make something up.
Almost 30 years of driving and not a single ticket or crash or other incident. Once got told off for disobeying lane rules when abroad (turning from a straight on lane or something, police were in the car directly behind, with no obvious markings!). But the cop let me off when he saw the foreign licence. I have nudged into a couple of walls/gateposts when manoeuvering a van with limited visibility, I'm not perfect.
I'm far from the slowest thing on the road, and break limits regularly, but not by a huge margin. I suspect (though I could be wrong) that people who get tickets regularly must often be driving at speeds well in excess of the limit and/or are not paying much attention to their surroundings. Maybe I've just been incredibly lucky.
....30 years of driving..... I'm far from the slowest thing on the road, and break limits regularly, but not by a huge margin.
The speed awareness course is basically pitched at you.
That's the sort of driver that is most surprised by the content of the course, and more than likely learns the most.
Sorry allthegear misread your post, now noticed it says 60yrs at same address not driving 😳
I got a paper provisional when I first had a go at learning (I won a track day so figured I better have a couple of lessons before I went) if I'd carried on learning at the time I guess I'd be in the same boat but TBH I wasn't really interested in it so stopped after a few lessons.
I just don't get why they introduced 10year licences but haven't bothered to get everyone else onto them, seems unfair - especially as renewals cost money!
Back when i learnt to drive, you actually had to have some skill to drive a car. There wasn't any of this Automatic gear stuff, or brakes that stopped you locking up, or even much in the way of powersteering etc!
I passed my test in an 1963 Landrover. Trust me, the 30mph emergency stop was a proper difficult test back then (especially on M&S crossplies, with leaf springs and a set of extremely unbalanced drum brakes full of water and mud......)