[Closed] Speed awareness course or 3 points. Decision time

Do the course. Your speeding indicates you need more awareness. And it'll mean less work overall: otherwise you will need to inform insurer, inform employer (if you drive for work at all), and await insurance premium increase.

yes, make the most of it, it will help you be a safer,better driver 🙂

the people that speed like lunatics get a whole other deal BTW 😉

I went on a Speed Awareness course just last week, was local to me so no issues with travel costs, had to put a holiday day in for a day off work.
I actually thought it was quite good, a good refresher on basic things, you'll be surprised how much you forget after passing your test.
£86 for the course or £90 fine and 3 points, I'd rather keep a clean licence.

My insurance company asked me if I have attended a speed awareness course last time I renewed, so maybe they are catching onto to this?

They said during the course that no one had access to the lists of who has attended a course, so insurance companies will only know if you tell them. they also said that 1 or 2 companies actually give you a small discount for attending them.

Do the course, if you don't and end up with 9 points down the track you will wish you did it. Most insurance companies don't require you to declare a course you do have to declare points, not that they make much difference to the price.

I did one last year (speeding in the car, 30-odd in a 30), and it was a real eye opener. I actually got something out of it and it's amazing how many people on the course didn't use the road other than to drive their car. I was the only person there (out of about 20) who cycled and had a motorycle license 😯

Do it. You'll learn a huge amount. None of us are as good as we think we are at driving...
I went on one 4+ years ago. I knew what I'd done wrong - missed the fact that I was in a 30 limit (industrial estate in North Wales at 11pm on a Friday) didn't see the camera and went through at 35 so I wasn't sure what the course would teach me. Totally wrong!
You'll realise there's a huge amount you were never taught in the first place, and because there's absolutely no renewal of your knowledge or re-assessment since you passed, you've forgotten most of the little you were taught in the first place!
The highlight for me was what they said about aggressive drivers - they're angry and aggressive when they get out of bed in the morning - there's nothing you've done with your driving to make them angry and nothing you can do to make them less aggressive, so best just pull over and let them go...

Unless you're a perfect driver already there's a huge amount you'll learn IMO.

Thanks, I've spoken to a few lads at work regarding this.
One said he did the course and wish he'd taken the points.8 hours of his life he won't get back.
Another said his sons insurance premiums went up even though he took the course and never got the points, the insurance company found out somehow.

The fine is £100 and the course fee is £95 but factor in a 70 mile round trip in a Trannie van and I'm going to be more out of pocket taking the course.

I got nabbed in 2011, 36 in a 30, 06.40 on a Sunday morning, foot off the throttle & coasting to the right turn to work. I was tired too after little sleep from worrying about work. I knew the camera was active too, It had already nabbed loads of people from our place. Was offered a course but declined & took the points ( I think it was £60 fine & 3 points or £75 with the course & no points)
My insurance was due soon after & I declared the penalty & was surprised to get a cheaper quote than the year before.
My 1st & only driving penalty since I passed my test in 1975 😳

I prefer to see my miles per gallon ometer go up than my speedometer & usually drive like Miss daisy, I bet I never went above 45 that morning!

So your saying you think your standard of driving is at a level where you can't learn anything else useful?

I've never done a speed awareness course but I've done various courses through work with ex police, IAM bods and general driver awareness people, and learnt stuff on all of them.

The driving test is the equivalent of doing a cycling proficiency course... Very basic skills.

I did the course 3 years ago ( at the old Leyland Motors Spurrier works ) got caught at 42 in a 30, £60 cost of the course plus half a day off work. Well worth it & very informative.

Brilliant work.

Ask advice on the Internet.
Get unanimous advice.
Ignore advice.

I don't think the course is for you, take the points.

It is not about time or money 😐

...and if it is imagine how much you will potentially save by avoiding being involved in an accident 🙂

Having read the OP's second post, I'm inclined to agree with nealglover. Take the points.

70 mile round trip in a Trannie van

You could just leave them at home. No point in all of you making the trip.

Brilliant work.

Ask advice on the Internet.
Get unanimous advice.
Ignore advice.

I don't think the course is for you, take the points.

Great advice from you but I will ignore it as I'm in the process of booking a course, thanks anyway.

I picked up 3 points now expired. Told insurance and there was no increase. Insurance told me that most companies expect 3 points now, so it didn't load it. Something to consider before wasting a days holiday.

Course booked thanks to advice from everyone except nealglover and deadlydarcy

Do the speed awareness course.
Then , when you get caught again in 2 1/2 years time you wont have 6 points on your licence . When you inform your insurance they then will load your premium.
You also might learn something .
Like the chap on mine who thought it was OK to hit pedestrians on the road as they didnt have right of way , cars did.

fourbanger - Member
I picked up 3 points now expired. Told insurance and there was no increase. Insurance told me that most companies expect 3 points now, so it didn't load it. Something to consider before wasting a days holiday.

Do the course you'll learn something. I did, 35 in a 30 zone.

Get it done, it's worthwhile.

To counter this I did a course last year and it was largely a waste of time. I learned very little, just s couple of minor points, and the tutor wasn't much good. She spent a lot of time frightening people with statistics and reinforcing negative stereotypes - "all other drivers are bad" etc. I tried to point out that there [i]can be[/i] an alternative to braking in an emergency situation (steering for example) and she just wouldn't have it, there was no discussion to be had on it at all. Also, there was one bloke who was a right prick. I was literally on the verge of telling him to shut his gob because I wanted to get on with it all and go home at one point.
I did it to keep my clean license, but 3 points would have been £10 cheaper and I'd have had a day to go riding instead, so I wish I'd not bothered.
(By God they hate anyone on two wheels too)

Do the course. You'll learn something. Don't be late or you can be asked to leave and still have to pay the fine, waste an afternoon ect.

d

Swallow your pride, put on your best "yes sir, no sir" face and go take the course. It's only a few hrs, they talk some sense (and a LOT of bolleux) and you might learn something. 😉

I'm going on one next month, not telling my speed though. 😳

Course booked thanks to advice from everyone except nealglover and deadlydarcy

Your second post suggested you weren't going to do the course, despite all the advice, because it was going to cost a few quid extra.

I still think the OP should take the points. 🙂

You'll realise there's a huge amount you were never taught in the first place, and because there's absolutely no renewal of your knowledge or re-assessment since you passed, you've forgotten most of the little you were taught in the first place!

Can we get this put on every motorway gantry and advertising board in the UK please.

Can we get this put on every motorway gantry and advertising board in the UK please.

On that point, reminds me of something I saw on M62, J21, a few weeks ago.

You know those (good idea) signs through motorway roadworks that say "Please drive slowly. My Daddy works here" with associated picture?

I'm not joking, one of these was displaying it.

[img] [/img]

I was stupid enough to speed past a camera and get caught so I opted for the course. It was hopeless, mostly because the trainers wanted to be everybody's friends. So it hasn't changed my habits; I drive at 30 mph or below in built-up areas but on an empty dual-carriageway at 05.00 on Christmas morning I'll still be exceeding the limit as I was the morning I got caught. (The camera in question had never held any film or had datum marks on the road and had been been vandalsed then sawn down but had been re-erected and lines painted a few days before Christmas.)

If you fall asleep on the course or turn up and don't take part, they will chuck you off and let you take the points
They turfed one cockley arse out of the one I did
Can't believe there done yiu for only going 46 in a 40 !!

If its west mercia area- TCS2000, take the points.
utter waste of time. I was really hoping to get something out of it but I was shocked by how bad it was. never left the room other than to let the smokers out half way through, so no teaching, just shock tactics and rubbish, cyclists MUST use cycle paths, Abs won't help you in an emergency, etc etc , some issues with basic physics.
A 1/2 day off work, £85 to be shouted at not taught. I'd take the points next time.

Can't believe there done yiu for only going 46 in a 40 !!

ACPO guidlines for NIP/ speed awareness course is 10% + 3mph is acceptable , above this NIP or option of speed course.

My policeman friend says I was harshly dealt with at 35 in 30 limit. Although its all about revenue genertaion , with 30 people in a room at £90 a head, and a retired copper preaching for 3hrs , room hire, tea / coffee/ admin costs does leave some margin

[i]Only [/i]46? That would likely have been an indicated 50 😆

My policeman friend says I was harshly dealt with at 35 in 30 limit.

You can get done for 33 in a 30 here in Dorset.

Everyone at the course is guitly of poor observation: failing to see whatever was just about to cost them a day off and a few £20 notes.

I'm constantly impressed by your insightful contributions to the forum.

My policeman friend says I was harshly dealt with at 35 in 30 limit.
You can get done for 33 in a 30 here in Dorset.

I very much doubt it. Have you seem a real case or just heard from someone who was only "doing 33 or something"

Mine wasn't very informative. Best thing was being told the rules about how lampposts affect the speed limit if there aren't signs (the rules on thus have changed since I took my test) and pointing out to people how little time you save by driving over the limit. I already knew this though having calculated it in the past for the purposes of internet smart-arsery.

Mrsmidlife is back from a course this afternoon. I'm not convinced she's a changed woman.

Everyone at the course is guitly of poor observation: failing to see whatever was just about to cost them a day off and a few £20 notes.

Why not change your name to 'Peterperfect' (except for your typo) Unless youv'e done a course as well, in which case your'e excused.

Stumpy's right though, just cos you've passed your test doesn't mean you can drive.

You may as well take the course and save the points although as it has been pointed out above insurance companies are catching on and my misses has been asked if I've been on a course as I'm named driver on her policy.

A large number of drivers on the course I went to thought that the national limit on single carriageway roads is 50 so they left knowing they could go 10 mph faster legally. I wonder how many of them upped their regular "speed limit plus 10 mph" cruising speed and are driving faster than ever?

One guy even found out his conviction was bogus as the speed limit signs on the stretch of road he was done on were not to regulation- too late he'd already pleaded guilty.

Maybe all courses are not created equal, but the one I did 18 months ago was pretty dull and un informative.

They didn't really tell me anything about speeding. It was just a brush up on basic Highway Code knowledge.

But, it did seem better than the points.....

The course leaders did think I'd been hard done by. 44 in a 40 limit. But I was in my van which apparently makes them judge you more harshly. The fact I was driving to the Peak for a days riding is irrelevant.

The course was painless though. Three hours. Dull. But I got tea and a biscuit. Learnt nothing new.

[img] [/img]

46 in a 40. 50 on the clock.

The idea that "a few miles over the limit is fine" is nonsense. It makes a big difference.

Should be automatic points in my view.

Take the course - it's a gift.

You all need to watch this, brings it all home...

Has anyone done one of these courses

Ahem.

http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/speed-awareness-course
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/speed-awareness-course-1
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/speed-awareness-course-2
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/speed-awareness-courses
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/speed-awareness-course-attendees
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/anyone-here-done-a-speed-awareness-course
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/pitchforks-at-the-ready-speed-awareness-course-content
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/speed-awareness-course-what-to-expect
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/speed-awareness-course-what-to-expect-1

Has anyone done one of these courses
Ahem.

http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/speed-awareness-course
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/speed-awareness-course-1
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/speed-awareness-course-2
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/speed-awareness-courses
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/speed-awareness-course-attendees
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/anyone-here-done-a-speed-awareness-course
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/pitchforks-at-the-ready-speed-awareness-course-content
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/speed-awareness-course-what-to-expect
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/speed-awareness-course-what-to-expect-1

Yous prob got a special searching enjin Cougar Mod.

Yep.

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/search-the-current-site/jliolpcnkmolaaecncdfeofombdekjcp?hl=en

One said he did the course and wish he'd taken the points.8 hours of his life he won't get back.

I don't see what the objection was to wanmankylung's comment either. It made sense to me.

[quote=singletrackmind ]You also might learn something .
Like the chap on mine who thought it was OK to hit pedestrians on the road as they didnt have right of way , cars did.

I already know that thanks. I don't think I've seen anything I didn't know from reports people have made about these courses. I'm certainly not claiming to be a perfect driver, but I do regularly read the HC (like molly, for internet smart-aresery) and less than convinced that a SAC would teach me anything given the standard of typical candidates they're catering to. I'm also in the West Mercia area as mentioned above.

Hence I'm very glad that when I was last caught (for 57 in a 50 which used to be a 70) I took the points. Made no difference to my insurance (I checked quotes with and without), didn't have to use a day's holiday. I don't understand why people ignore the latter point - I rolled over days holiday after that until I was made redundant, and over £100 up as a result of having an extra day's holiday they paid me for. Have managed to avoid getting caught again in the 5 years since.

[quote=wanmankylung ]Everyone at the course is guitly of poor observation: failing to see whatever was just about to cost them a day off and a few £20 notes.

Mobile vans point their cameras at the point where vehicles first become visible (hence where the van is first visible to drivers), so the first point you can see it is too late. IME. I'm certain the previous time I was caught, as my speed (85 in a 70!) was what I was doing as I came over the brow and slammed on the brakes the instant the van was visible.

molgrips
pointing out to people how little time you save by driving over the limit.

Pfft, i did 150mph the other day on a motorway and i got there in under half the time............... 😉

The course I went on was full of people feeling hard done by for being caught:

I just said " I was driving like a ****, got caught, glad to be here as they had not originally offered me the course"

CBARTA so here's my tuppence ...

I attended a SAC 2 years ago and didn't really expect to get much out of it. Turned out to be the opposite as a I learned a fair few safety-oriented changes in behaviour that I recall every time I get in the car. It's not just about cutting your speed - it's also about understanding the road/drivers in a way that you don't learn from an instructor/assessor when starting out.

I don't think I've seen anything I didn't know from reports people have made about these courses. I'm certainly not claiming to be a perfect driver, but I do regularly read the HC (like molly, for internet smart-aresery) and less than convinced that a SAC would teach me anything given the standard of typical candidates they're catering to.

That was entirely my experience when I took it. I often see reports from people extolling the virtues of the course (there's one or two on this very thread), and all I can conclude is that those folk either sat a different course to me or were pretty poor drivers to start with.

I'd be hard pressed to think of anything taught that I didn't already know; about the only thing off the top of my head was a long spiel about the ramifications of having an accident and the sheer number of people affected. That was pretty eye-opening.

I learned a fair few safety-oriented changes in behaviour

That's interesting; such as?

(You posted that whilst I was typing, I wasn't intentionally referencing you there.)

it's also about understanding the road/drivers in a way that you don't learn from an instructor/assessor when starting out.

That's a good point, thanks to the other attendees I learned quite a bit about some frankly terrifying drivers that I share a road with.

Well I had a tossbag who introduced himself as a Subaru driver, who thought speeding was 'OK if you were racing someone'

And the 40 year service bus driver who didn't know basic signs (Give Way fr'instance) and who was stopped during the practical bit because his driving was so terrible.

I'd be hard pressed to think of anything taught that I didn't already know

Well, you are awesome, aren't you?

I get a driving course every 2 years from work. I always learn something. If your mind is open, it's astonishing what might go in.

I'm with Cougar on his one.....

Mine was pretty boring but TBH better than points..thing is you never know when your gonna accumulate some more so the chance to to not have any...

Just remember its much safer if your looking at the speedo all the time in a constant worry that you may be going 1-3 mph over the limit 🙂

Does make you wonder why speedos aren't put in better places tbh.

who was stopped during the practical bit because his driving was so terrible

since when did speend awareness courses include a practical section?

Rachel

Well, you are awesome, aren't you?

I get a driving course every 2 years from work. I always learn something. If your mind is open, it's astonishing what might go in.

Nothing to do with my awesomeness, simply that the content of the course didn't teach me anything I didn't already know. Is that so difficult to believe? There also wasn't a "practical bit" in the one I did, they stopped doing that I believe. Your work's driving course is a non-sequitur; it's a different course so irrelevant, if I sat a different course I might well have learned something too.

Eg, I probably wouldn't learn anything on a basic numeracy course, but probably learn quite a lot if I went on an A-level maths course. That doesn't make me Stephen Hawking, it just means that I've taken some time to learn how to count.

Just remember its much safer if your looking at the speedo all the time in a constant worry that you may be going 1-3 mph over the limit

You know, if you are a really good driver, you can control your speed without needing to do this 🙂

... which is why no-one is ever prosecuted for doing 31mph. Given that speedos' tolerances can only ever overread (legally), to secure a prosecution your dial would have to be reading somewhere between 35 and 40mph at a bare minimum. That's not a "not looking at my speedo constantly" margin of error, it's driving without due care. Doubly so now with the proliferation of cruise control.

You're right, of course. I can usually sit the car somewhere comfortably around 30mph or 40mph without looking at the speedo, I do it as an exercise sometimes to see how close I can get. It's quite a handy game for learning what different speeds feel like.

My insurance company asked me if I have attended a speed awareness course last time I renewed, so maybe they are catching onto to this?

Not that I'm one to condone fibbing to insurance companies but how would they find out... 😉

... which is why no-one is ever prosecuted for doing 31mph. Given that speedos' tolerances can only ever overread (legally

You'd be surprised, the digital readout of speed in my Insignia matches the GPS measurement from my Garmin Edge exactly.

re: 35 in a 30 zone

The point of these courses is to point out and/or remind people that just a few mph over the limit in pedestrain/urban areas makes a HUGE difference to the injuries sustained in the event of an accident and also increases the likelihood of it happening

like a kid running out in front of you. (they do that kind of thing sometimes.)

or an novice/wobbly/elderly/young/stupid cyclist in poor visibility conditions without good hi-viz in a vunerable position ... etc etc...

statistics show that the number of serious injuries have reduced quite significantly since the introduction of this scheme, this is much more useful than giving people points or fines and is also cheaper thant cleaning up the cost of accidents. a sensible use of revenue.

If you did not understand at least this from attending one of these courses the instructors failed or you should not have a licence.

If you do understand this and still use inappropriate speed I hope you have an enforced break from driving before something nasty happens.

Advanced driving tuition is not what you should expect from a SAC, it is to remind you why there are speed limits and to help you avoid killing/maiming somebody in the case of an accident.

that is all.

and no, speeding in urban areas does nothing to reduce your journey time.

Difficult one - 'have you been caught speeding'

Yes.

'have you any speeding convictions'

No.

Is there an open/accessible database anywhere where outside parties can check the data?

[quote=iffoverload ]The point of these courses is to point out and/or remind people that just a few mph over the limit in pedestrain/urban areas makes a HUGE difference to the injuries sustained in the event of an accident and also increases the likelihood of it happening
...
If you did not understand at least this from attending one of these courses the instructors failed or you should not have a licence.

I already knew this, so what would I have gained from the course?

aracer

I already knew this, so what would I have gained from the course?

iffoverload

The point of these courses is to point out and/or remind people...

....Advanced driving tuition is not what you should expect from a SAC...

😉

39 in a 40, I clearly thought it was 40 as its was a dual carrageway through the middle of an post industrial wasteland - near the manchester velodrome.

Course boring as hell but learnt a few thing and my driving is all the better for it. take the course, you might learn something and you may avoid killing someone. cant really complain about that.

I got caught on a mobile camera doing 64 about 200m into a 50 zone - in my van . I was very thankful for the option of taking the course . It was worth it just to hear some of the whiny excuses people came up with .

[quote=mrchrispy ]you might learn something and you may avoid killing someone. cant really complain about that.

At a real cost of >£100 more than taking the points, you're going to have to do better than "might" and "may".

My course a few years ago (37 just after a 30 sign, but by a school - and really stupid of me) was good. Had some time with an advanced instructor, some good technical advice. Interesting how many people thought the NSL was 50mph... Not a waste of time at all. And of course if you take 3, then get another 3 points, [i]that [/i]will cost you.

Interesting how many people thought the NSL was 50mph...

I don't think anyone on my course had any real confident idea what the speed limits were beyond "I think..." and the ones who did have half a clue still had no idea what, say, the actual difference between a single- and a dual-carriageway was.

statistics show that the number of serious injuries have reduced quite significantly since the introduction of this scheme

I don't doubt that for a moment. What it boils down to is this: the SAC is a basic course, but some people are so shockingly incompetent that a basic course is exactly what's required. And I'm not saying that for "I R ORSUM" reasons, rather that some of the things coming out of the other attendees' mouths were simply unbelievable.

At a real cost of >£100 more than taking the points, you're going to have to do better than "might" and "may".

I don't think so. "Might" is a lot better than "won't" imo.

Going on a SAC might result in you meeting the woman of your dreams and living happily ever after. Going on a SAC might prevent you getting run down by an idiot driver on your usual cycle commute to work.

ffoverload - Member

The point of these courses is to point out and/or remind people that just a few mph over the limit in pedestrain/urban areas makes a HUGE difference to the injuries sustained in the event of an accident and also increases the likelihood of it happening

If that's the case, I shouldn't be going on the course.
I was caught in an rural area where I hardly see any pedestrians.
The road I was speeding on is the A591 travelling west to the Lake district past the village of Ings. It's a large open road and where 40mph does feel slow.
That's no excuse mind, I travel to the lakes a lot and was aware of the speed limit in this area but for some unknown reason, I was caught out on this particular day, maybe it was because I was eager to get riding as my time was limited.

I'm hoping this course can explain why, since a 20mph speed limit was enforced on the busy road on which I live, that sees the pedestrian traffic of four different schools, has there never been a speed camera to catch out some of the drivers that fly down the street at twice that speed. Even the sign that lit up with either a smiley or sad face, depending on your speed was taken down after only a couple of months
I think I will be disappointed though, as someone has already pointed out on this thread, there's no room for discussion. So I might as well do my 'whinging' on here. 🙂 🙁

They don't enforce 20mph limits. Worth complaining to your local police if you think people are well over 30 though.

The Ings one covers a large open road going through a village with a few busy junctions, hotel and petrol station. You do get pedestrians, farm traffic and bikes crossing at that point. The limit is correct there, but as you say, it doesn't feel it because of the road architecture.

There are so many people blatting up that road into the Lakes that consideration should be given to changing the layout to actively slow folk down. Personally I'd stick a 50 in force at Staveley to start the process. I'd hazard a guess that that camera makes a lot of money.