[Closed] Speciesismtrackworld

The fact we can 'destroy shit' on a massive scale proves we are the Apex predator.

The fact that you wrote this suggests you're conflating "apex predator" with arguably "most successful animal" Those things aren't necessarily the same thing, and I think my slightly pedantic argument is probs not what the thread needed. Apologies.

Evolution. 99.9% of species that have ever lived are extinct. So we've not done too bad and proves on balance we have been more successful than our predators.

Seems we're doing even better of late:

[img] [/img]

Let's hit the magic 100 to prove who is boss.

In my experience, any question along the lines of 'do have the right to eat meat' just ends up polarised, such that half the people go away assuming that it is perfectly natural to go away and continue eating eat meat 10-15 times a week

Daniel Quinn's book, Ishmael, poses I more interesting way to look at this, I think

What gives us the right to go out and systematically kill (1) any animals that want to eat the same animals we want to eat, (2) any animals that wish to eat the same food source that the animals we want to eat eat themselves?

In other words, it may be perfectly reasonable for a human to eat a sheep, but it's probably not very nice for us to go out killing foxes just because they also like sheep, or killing rabbits because they like the crops that we are growing to feed our sheep.

https://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Law_of_Limited_Competition
http://greathinkings.blogspot.co.uk/2007/11/law-of-limited-competition.html

If we stopped doing all that, sure, we could go on eating meat, but it would be a much rarer occasion, as it generally was 1000s of years ago

Animals we eat don't have to suffer.

This is my thinking. It's quite easy to buy good meat from producers who care about and take good care of their livestock. I do it every week. Yes they get slaughtered in the end, but despite all the stories you see of abuse etc there are still places out there who carry this part out humanely and with respect for the animals. I'd much rather eat less meat but good quality than lot's of intensively farmed crap. I adopt the same approach with vegetables. Buy from local producers where I know how they have been grown. People who complain about meat being eaten yet buy lot's of fruit and vegetables from places they have no idea of what went into growing them are hypocrites and can **** right off trying to lecture me on my morals.

Wobbliscott, I'm sorry but contrary to what many people believe, the animals farmed in the UK really aren't pampered and do suffer terribly on a huge scale. This includes animals on farms that are labelled as high welfare. I watched this film about it the other week and it was a real eye-opener [url= http://www.landofhopeandglory.org ]Land of hope and glory[/url]

there are still places out there who carry this part out humanely and with respect for the animals

So your argument is a slaughter house is a place of humane respect for animals. Its a slaughter house - the name tells you what it is.

You will be telling me there are humane torture chambers where they carry it out with respect

Junkyard - lazarus

there are still places out there who carry this part out humanely and with respect for the animals

So your argument is a slaughter house is a place of humane respect for animals. Its a slaughter house - the name tells you what it is.

Yes, however slaughterhouses are a practical neccesity and much more humane than starvingtodeathhouses, or indeed eatenalivehouses

Note: Videos contain graphic footage of things that happen in nature.

So your argument is a slaughter house is a place of humane respect for animals. Its a slaughter house - the name tells you what it is.

You can kill animals humanely yes. Do you disagree with the definition? I'd much rather rear and slaughter livestock in a humanely fashion than have none of these animals at all or worse, leave them to nature where they will suffer a great deal.

You will be telling me there are humane torture chambers where they carry it out with respect

Is this where I insert one of your straw man, ad hom, cite or some other such phrase or do I just tell you to stop talking pish.

Death is never "humane", we can only make it as humane as possible in order to eliminate unnecessary suffering. I have seen more animals die than I care to remember and have never felt that it could have been made any more humane.

Is this where I insert one of your straw man, ad hom, cite or some other such phrase or do I just tell you to stop talking pish.

No its where you try and comprehend the point made to you instead of shooting the messenger.
Hopefully the farmer helped you understand.

No its where you try and comprehend the point made to you instead of shooting the messenger.
Hopefully the farmer helped you understand.

When you compare killing animals humanely with torturing humans I have no desire to try and comprehend your point as it's bollocks.

good news you achieved your goal

Its idiotic to think I compared them, they are simply both oxymorons

Well if you think you can't kill an animal humanely and with respect then that's up to you. You can just say so without making up some unrelated point about torture. I disagree with you. Tough titties.

People who complain about meat being eaten yet buy lot's of fruit and vegetables from places they have no idea of what went into growing them are hypocrites and can **** right off trying to lecture me on my morals.

Well done. You win the 'insecure meat-eater of the day award'. No one is lecturing you. What you eat is your own business, and we non-meat-eaters don't really GAS.

No one is lecturing you. What you eat is your own business, and we non-meat-eaters don't really GAS.

Lol, sure.

Lol, sure.

It's true I can assure you. It doesn't however mean that we should be barred from discussing the issue. The OP asked a simple question, which in many cases was responded to with ridiculous points which are very easy to counter, or righteous indignation that someone might have the temerity to question something which is seen to be normal by the vast majority.

[quote=km79 ]Well if you think you can't kill an animal humanely and with respect then that's up to you. thanks seems like the person who does it agrees as well. You cannot breed something then kill it to eat it and then argue you are being humane.As noted you can be more humane or less humane but you cannot achieve humane as you slaughter something - its oxymoronic like humane torture is.

You can just say so without making up some unrelated point about torture.

How many times does it need to be explained to you for you to understand?

I disagree with you. Tough titties.

excellent now we are the playground level of "debate" 🙄

Maybe you could, but you don't. Your existence, like the rest of humanity, causes animal suffering.

Only the ones that can read 😆

You can just say so without making up some unrelated point about torture.

Done correctly, killing an animal for food should normally be quick and relatively painless, and also as stress-free as possible.
Torture, on the other hand, involves inflicting pain and suffering for extended periods, while trying to avoid the death of the subject, for no other reason than to gain some sort of perverted pleasure from the suffering of the subject.
When the subject is human, the desired end result is usually to force information from the subject, or force the subject to change their political or spiritual orientation.
Torture of an animal has no other end than to cause suffering for the personal enjoyment of the torturer, possibly with a sexual element.
I see no comparison with the quick death in an abattoir of an animal for the purpose of eating it, and using what can’t be eaten for other purposes, leaving little wastage.
But perhaps I’m missing something really obvious.

thanks seems like the person who does it agrees as well. You cannot breed something then kill it to eat it and then argue you are being humane.As noted you can be more humane or less humane but you cannot achieve humane as you slaughter something - its oxymoronic like humane torture is.

Edit: CBA, not wasting my Sunday evening arguing with you.

I see no comparison ....
But perhaps I’m missing something really obvious

I made no comparison.
i think this is the forth time i have explained it i am not comparing except to say humane torture and human slaughter of animals are both oxymorons. The farmer, who does it,agrees it cannot be truly humane.

You will be telling me there are humane torture chambers where they carry it out with respect does not equal saying slaughters houses are the same as torture ;i have no idea why anyone would claim/think it does.

i think this is the forth time i have explained it

Just another Junkyard special then. If you put more time into the point you are trying to make it would save you so much time having to explain them later.

Aye definitely my fault folk keep misconstruing - I note you never tried to argue what i said meant what they claimed...interesting.

thanks for your input, I really value it.

I note you never tried to argue what i said meant what they claimed...interesting.

You note well. It's not that interesting though. Arguing with you is like catching your toe under a door. Once experienced there is no desire to repeat it and you feel a bit stupid for letting it happen in the first place. 😆

thanks for your input, I really value it.

You're welcome. Anytime!

You cannot breed something then kill it to eat it and then argue you are being humane.

Of course you can. You can argue whatever you like.

I’ve caught, killed and eaten my own fish more than once. Because I can and because it’s very tasty. It’s not practical for me to shoot my own cow, so I let someone else do it for me. I trust them to do it as decently as possible as the laws of m at production in the UK dictate. I try to buy British wherever possible.
My wife chooses not to eat meat or fish (anything with a face as she puts it) but doesn’t spout crap like in this thread.

You note well. It's not that interesting though. Arguing with you is like catching your toe under a door. Once experienced there is no desire to repeat it and you feel a bit stupid for letting it happen in the first place.

funny enough i may steal it[kudos] but we both know why you didnt try.