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It seems a decision has been made to site the UK's first spaceport in Sutherland on Scotland's North coast. I hope this happens, and sometime soon. I would love to have to opportunity to travel to the wilds for a hiking trip and a rocket launch. A rocket launch on a large scale must be something impressive to watch.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-44838787
This is a joke, right? They're just re-making Rockets Galore! and the local tourist office got carried away, surely?
Or has someone with no grasp of physics decided this? There's a reason most launch locations are vaguely equatorial, but hey, who needs experts!
Is it going to be on the hyperloop line?
Or has someone with no grasp of physics decided this? There’s a reason most launch locations are vaguely equatorial, but hey, who needs experts!
Relatively speaking, that rules out ALL of the UK. I guess that Newquay isn't that much closer to the equator that it makes any difference. Of course, there are already "tracking" facilities in Sutherland that might provide a basis for upgrade. In fact, I'm surprised South Uist wasn't in the reckoning. Maybe the wind profile ruled it out.
Just out of interest, where is the Baikonur cosmodrome? Hmmm, near the Aral Sea in Kazakhstan, so a bit further south, but not as far south as Florida.
Plesetek Cosmodrome sits 800km north of Moscow at 62 deg North apparently. I have just had a search and there is a small spaceport in Norway. Google Images of it look spectacular.
Lockheed Martin launch from New Zealand too.
Bloody experts, eh?
🙄
Baikonur launch some of the biggest rockets ever made. Their equatorial disadvantage is kind of cancelled out by the fact their candles have very big motors, are extremely robust and well-proven. They can therefore launch big (or many) items into space reliably and efficiently.
We don't have a launch platform, but then we don't have much to launch natively, apart from non-existent GPS satellites. There's no way we'll be able to conjure up anything useful, commercially. It just seems like a really peculiar thing to invest in at that location. If we wanted a "domestic" launch site, somewhere like st helena would make loads more sense. ESA's space port isn't in France or Germany, or hung off the tip of Sicily, but in Kourou, Equatorial Guinea.
Lockheed (Rocket Lab) launch teeny weeny satellites from NZ, Florida and Alaska for very little cost.
Lockheed (Rocket Lab) launch teeny weeny satellites from NZ, Florida and Alaska for very little cost.
And I think you’ll find that is exactly the sort of stuff the Sutherland site is envisaged to do. Things like the cube sat built by https://www.clyde.space
Of course it could become a giant white elephant like the oil rig manufacturing site the government built at potavadie decades ago that never actually opened!
Depends on what sort of orbit you want. A polar orbit is better for some satellites. So it easier to launch those from further away from the equator.
It's all stopgaps til they build the railgun up kilimanjaro. Like payloads above the serengeti
All other things being equal you want to launch near the equator but socioeconomic and political factors, and logistical issues like wellplaced seaports, people nearby but not so nearby that you have to worry about blowing them up, etc are probably more practically important. No idea why Sutherland is a standout though.
Highlands and Islands Enterprise (HIE) is expected to be given £2.5m from the UK government to develop the spaceport, which could be up and running by the early 2020s.
That should cover a couple of prefabs and a lego model, where is the rest of the money coming from?
When they said "complete rockets "on the NC500 I thought they meant something very different.
SPACE FORCE, SPACE FORCE, SPACE FORCE, SPACE FORCE!
Of course it could become a giant white elephant like the oil rig manufacturing site the government built at potavadie decades ago that never actually opened!
Excuse me, I had a night there a few weeks ago, and very nice it was too.
Non-equatorial can be quite useful for polar orbiting satellites (which is what I'd imagine most small satellites to be). The natural inclination of the orbit is the same as the latitude of the launch site, so could be quite handy. Plesetsk Cosmodrome is further North than any point in UK.
Equatorial helps for Geostationary (unless you're Israel and have to launch the wrong way).
£2.5M is probably just to make sure it's called UK Spaceport rather than Spaceport Scotland. Certainly not going to go very far.
£2.5M is probably just to make sure it’s called UK Spaceport rather than Spaceport Scotland. Certainly not going to go very far.
Like most of the rockets i imagine.
£30m is about enough to keep 50 people busy for about 5 years - it's hardly going to be NASA.
It’s all stopgaps til they build the railgun up kilimanjaro.
Someone been reading Alistair Reynolds?
What do we think the construction costs would be for a space launch site? When you look at the cost of infrastructure projects and office building etc I would guess well north of 100 million, probably closer to 250 million.
Not that I am actually against it, if it is real. It could actually make sense to get in on the act quickly, but there needs to be some honesty about costs and risks, and who will invest and benefit. The whole "space port UK" project just seems like brexit fantasy bullshit to me, trying to dazzle the electorate with a fantastic utopian future that will crumble when faced with reality.
Space launches could become a new transport sector quite quickly, but the are currently issues to be addressed before everyone and their dog starts launching spacecraft into orbit, ie space debris.
traditionally the costs would be astronomical, but we're entering the realm of commercialised space industry so the costs will come down. All the infrastructure you see at Cape Canaveral will not be needed - probably just a simple pad as the rocket will probably be free standing. I suspect the sums of money announced is just to get the ball rolling, the rest will come from private investment. This will just be a lauch facility rather than what NASA is, which does all the research, engineering, manufacturing, testing etc. for space exploration, satellite launches, military space equipment etc., so not quite the same scope as NASA.
I think this will be for commercial satellite launches, the space tourism bit is going to be down at Newquay isn't it? where Richard Branson will be having a base for his Virgin Galactic set up.
No doubt some would use it as a post brexshit "look, here's what we can do" trophy project, but teh idea dates back well before the referendum was even a twinkle in cameron's eye.
Just so long as the rocketman from Hyde (the one whose name was on that leaked BNP membership/contact list a few years back) has nothing whatsoever to do with it.
Needs an Elon Musk to come along imho.
£2.5M will be enough to pay for the Infrastructure feasibility study. It'll cost 10x that to get suitable roads and comms installed in an area of the country that has limited existing infrastructure. Anyone know why it has to be located so remotely? Prestwick Airport was once recommended due to its ease of access and fog-free runway, so don't know why this isn't being pursued as a viable option.
I can see it becoming a Place of National Scientific Interest, bit like Eden Project but with added fireworks 👨🚀💥🚀🛰
Anyone know why it has to be located so remotely?
Because if a launch starts to go wrong, the solution is for the range officer to press the explode now button.
All the infrastructure you see at Cape Canaveral will not be needed – probably just a simple pad as the rocket will probably be free standing.
Cape Canaveral would cost billions to build from scratch today, but I think you underestimate the infrastructure requirements for a space launch, from IT solutions to specialised fire tenders, it is not an business where off the shelf solution can be bought and brought in as required, everything has to be there up front before the first rocket is even though about.
Having worked for an earthworks contractor I imagine at least some of the works to provide power, IT, water, gas, drainage. There could be a large program of earth moving required, and if the ground is peaty then that would increase costs. Road upgrades to surrounding infrastructure would also be required I imagine.
Elon may have his Roadster in orbit, but I bet a can of Tenants floating around up there will get a bigger cheer...
a can of Tenants floating around up there will get a bigger cheer
bindun
if the ground is peaty
OTOH much of Sutherland is bare rock or covered with a thin skim of soil and organic matter.
Anyone know why it has to be located so remotely?
Apparently being North is useful (presumably for Polar orbits?); being away from people helps if things go wrong and probably means there are fewer headaches with a vertical rocket and commercial aircraft.
Prestwick Airport was once recommended due to its ease of access and fog-free runway, so don’t know why this isn’t being pursued as a viable option.
Prestwick, and some other locations are still being considered for horizontal launch (plane style) facilities; this is for a vertical launch (rocket style) and was a different shortlist. I expect horizontal launch is slightly more predictable if it goes wrong so can be closer to populations.
Looks on Amazon for 30 tonnes of Liquid Hydrogen and 10 tonnes of liquid Oxygen, with delivery to North Scotland. hmm, kinda pricey..... 😉
Yes its for polar orbit.
It's that far north because you only have to worry about Iceland and the Faroe Isles if it goes wrong.
Tankers take gas to equally remote areas, not an issue.
Prestwick is still up for horizontal launch.
Surrey and Clyde are two companies supplying domestic payloads.
Maybe read about it before commenting, the info is all there.