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I have an old separates system (Cambridge Audio P500/C500 amp) but it's obviously two channel so also have a Marantz AV receiver for movies, which is equally old. I like the sound of both for their own use, but there are now eight speakers in the room and a pile of separates. Given it's now nearly 2019 instead of 2001 I'm wondering if advances in tech would allow me to do a bit better. The AV system sounds dreadful for music compared to the separates.
So, can you get one system to do both? I'm not overly bothered by movie sound quality but it does need to be 5.1 or whatever the modern version is. So what can I get that will be good with music? I do still play CDs by the way 🙂
I'd be interested in low and high budget options, between say £300 and £1k.
Have soundbars completely replaced 5.1 now?
I used to have a Denon stereo amp, cut down on features for best sound quality. I replaced it with a Onkyo cinema amp and when I found the “music optimisation” button it sounded pretty much like my Denon. I reckon if you buy a decent cinema amp from a main manufacturer like Yamaha the music will sound good as well as the cinema sound. Miles better than one of those crappy sound bars anyway, even a really cheap cinema amp.
Richer sounds are knocking out descent amps from £120 and ones around £200-300 have networking stuff on them too.
Again, look at richer sounds. Yamaha do sound good av receivers, which are either 5.1, 7.1 or the newer audio format of Dolby Atmos. 7.1 is good enough for movies via blu ray if going that route. Yamaha do pure direct for 2 channel which minimises circuitry used. Depends on how many channels you need/want for movie playback
Yamaha 5.1, £299
https://www.richersounds.com/tv-home-cinema/av-receivers/yamaha-rxv485-blk.html
Yamaha 7.2, £349 for 2 extra channels and Dolby Atmos
https://www.richersounds.com/tv-home-cinema/av-receivers/yamaha-rxv585-blk.html
What speakers tho? I think my AV speakers are probably the weak link.
Have soundbars completely replaced 5.1 now?
No, you get a good centre channel (essential for TV and movies), less left and right separation than you'd get with standard speakers, and a vague ill defined attempt at surround channels that depends on bouncing sound off the walls and is very dependent on room shape.
Mate I saw at Christmas replaced a set of old Kef Eggs and Yamaha AV amp. with a Sonos soundbar and sub and reckons it's nowhere near as good. I'd agree based on what i've heard. Probably cost about the same.
I've never understood the 'av system will be crap for audio'. Surely with a decent quality amp and a 'straignt' button that bypasses the surround processing and just uses the L and R speakers (and sub) theres no reason it should be (so long as you're using decent speakers in the first place).
I've got a Yamaha AV amp which I use for both. Have my old Jamo floor speakers as the front speakers and the normal small surrounds do the job for the other channels.
Really happy with the Ed sound for both audio and movies.
how many channels you need/want
and can position properly. My current set up where the TV is in the middle of a wall sounds way better than a corner tv ever did with the same kit.
+1 on Yamaha AV amps sounding good for music via the Pure Direct mode
I’ve never understood the ‘av system will be crap for audio’.
Not necessarily crap, but the thinking is that £500 worth of av amp will have the componentry cost divided a lot more with all the extra circuitry and amplification requirements for driving many speakers.
A £500 stereo amp just has to do two channels of amplification, so less money spent on extra gubbins.
I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a £500 stereo amp would sound better than a £500 av amp being used in stereo.
I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect a £500 stereo amp would sound better than a £500 av amp being used in stereo.
Possibly, but speakers can make an even bigger difference. I have a Yamaha A/V amp that’s around 20 years old, with a set of Sony 5.1 satellites. For music I just switch effects off, which gives me stereo + the sub, and the quality is perfect good enough.
My current av receiver is ok for stereo. Much better than the old one. But still way sort of similar money on 2 channels and speakers
Does this help
Q accoustics do a 5.1 av package for £480. Or use your existing speakers and get a decent centre speaker (main dialogue), maybe a sub - if needed. Depending what you go for 5.1 - fronta, centre, rears and sub or 7.1 with 2 additional side firing surround. Or then 6 channel which just has a speaker in the centre for rear. Room layout depends on what you go for
For a given budget a 2 channel system will outperform a 5.1 system. The increase in sound quality will eclipse the 'loss' of the supposed surround sound. The only thing is you have to hear it for yourself before you believe it's true.
For a given budget a 2 channel system will outperform a 5.1 system. The increase in sound quality will eclipse the ‘loss’ of the supposed surround sound. The only thing is you have to hear it for yourself before you believe it’s true.
I'd say it as more complicated than that. Our 5.1 is less good for music than the stereo separates it replaced. But it's easier to say things up for movies with 5.1. We struggled with spoken voices in stereo, I can live without the surround bit. My brother in laws stereo is good with films but it is very high end
If you can find one for a decent price the new Arcam Solo Movie 5.1 is a fantastic bit of kit for both. No 4K if that bothers you but otherwise amazing. I had the old one and decided to upgrade to a newer 4K AV amp, and it both looked and sounded pants compared to the Arcam, so I got the new version of the Arcam instead!
If you are looking at an AV amp, I personally would consider anything other than Denon. A decent centre speaker, and a BK sub, and you'll be laughing. Of course you won't be allowed to turn it up.
I’d say my fav sound systems are Jah Shaka, Killwat, Sir Lloyd Coxsone and Rapattack
Yamaha and Denon have good rep's for audio. My current Onkyo is pretty decent too. I'd also stick with 5.1 if you can actually get just 5.1 systems these days. 7.1 and greater are a bit overkill, I went from 5.1 to 7.1 but in my most recent setup went back to 5.1 as I didn't think 7.1 really made that much difference...I guess it depends on the room size and shape etc. Unless you can achieve optimal speaker placement then its all compromised anyway so the fewer speakers you have the better.
Of course when it comes to stereo Audio only it depends on your speaker setup. If you just have a 5.1 satellite speaker setup then that might affect the stereo Audio only as the speakers will just not be as good as dedicated stereo audio speakers, but nothing to stop you from having the two front channels as proper stereo speakers. Most 5.1 amps have a stereo audio mode anyway, and sometimes have better amp set ups for the front left and right channels for dedicated audio - my old Denon did, but that was a top of the line model at the time and stereo audio quality with the speakers I had at the time was excellent. Depends how good you want your stereo audio to be.
You can get half decent setups for very little money these days on bundle deals that Richer Sounds sometimes does...not audiophile or THX quality, but pretty good and easily passable so for your budget range you can definitely get a decent setup for both music and movies for sure. The gap between the quality at the lowest end and the highest end has narrowed over the years and it gets to the point where no matter how much more money you throw at it you're not really getting better quality and just buys you bragging rights so it is absolutely not necessary to spend big money for really good quality these days...the law of diminishing returns rules here.
As for sound bars my brothers got the Sonos player and it is excellent for what it is. Its in a large room and could do with the accompanying subwoofer, but apart from the lack of power at the low end it doesn't struggle and quality is excellent...but is a compromise of both parts so not as near as good for home cinema as a proper 5.1 setup or as good as a dedicated stereo audio setup for music.
Others have said this already, but I'll tip my hat in as a +1 for Yamaha AV receiver from Richer. I'm a huge fan of the Yamaha amps.
I run an AV amp in 2.1 mode.
It's the best compromise I think as I don't think rear channels add that much compared to a well set up 2.0 or 2.1 depending on how good your fronts are.
I run an AV amp in 2.1 mode.
It’s the best compromise I think
Gotta say, I like my AV, but I do find some of the criticism of using AV amps for music over a dedicated stereo amp to be somewhat 'I Are Exceedingly Moar Audiophile Than Thou.' I bet in the vast majority of cases people wouldn't be able to tell you which they were listening to on a blind test.
I suppose the argument could be made that at the same price point you get more stereo for your money than AV, but that's self-evident. There's a lot more functionality in an AV receiver than a stereo amp, it's clearly going to be more expensive for a comparable quality system.
If you've got £1,000 to spend on a hard-tail or a full-sus, which is the better spend? So, is a HT betterer?
I don’t think rear channels add that much compared to a well set up 2.0 or 2.1 depending on how good your fronts are
From Dolby Digital onward, the recommendation / expectation in a 5.1 setup is that your 5 are all the same / similar speakers. The concept of having satellite surrounds went out with Pro Logic. Ie, it's not that your fronts are too good here but rather that your hypothetical rears aren't.
IMHO, etc etc.
I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect a £500 stereo amp would sound better than a £500 av amp being used in stereo.
No argument with that at all, but there are a lot of common costs across both. Packaging, shipping, case all common to both. Yes, to get equivalent sound you need to spend more on an AV amp than a stereo amp but that doesn't mean a good AV amp cant serve both purposes.
I would get the best 2nd hand Arcam AV Amp you can get for your money. They outshine any Yamaha/Denon/Onkyo musically and are also great for films.
I’ve had an AVR400 for about 6 years and it’s stunning. It’s available for about £500 but you may be able to get something better 2nd hand or even buy something new
I don't have an AV setup but surely if you stick on a CD (yes I'm old) you just get two channels don't you (L&R front) unless you apply some pseudo-magical digital processing? But a DVD will give you 5.1 (or whatever). So providing you have a decent AV amp and front speakers you should be fine for music.
I have a "music" system so just front speakers and subs, but I find it adequate for films and TV too as I'm not all that bothered about effects.
I picked up a set of Q Acoustics 5.1 last year in a sale (older style speakers). I've had a decent Sony 7.1 amp for about 10 years now but only ever ended up with 2.0 floor standers. I was reluctant to upgrade to 5.1 in case it wasn't all that... also to 'only' book shelf speakers. It took me a couple of days to get everything dialled in but it was worth it, the system sounds incredible, there is a Dolby app on LG tv which is a great test of 5.1, watched Rouge One yest and that was something else with the volume cranked up to 60, made the damn sofa shake!! 5.1 really changed films and tv shows (NetFlix), add Dolby Vision, 4k and the cinema can't compete.
7.1 and greater are a bit overkill
also, there's very little 7.1 content about - I'm pretty sure there's none being broadcast in the UK and I've not seen any on the streaming platforms (but i've not been looking). I suspect you're still pretty much restricted to Blu Rays and few if any of the ones i've bought over teh years have had more than a 5.1 soundtrack.
I have last year's equivalent of this, the move to a higher class amp (Class/Category in manufacturer speak) has removed any concerns about managing 5.1 and music via 2 channels. Prior amp was a 12 year old Onkyo and the different for both uses is vast. I'd never got to a bar or system after using full surround for so long, although I have relatively little experience of the bar/plinth approach.
had both Yamaha and Denon AV amps, the Denon was probably marginally better "sounding" amp the Yamaha had more "audio" bells and whistles (but there's only so much jazz club and large hall reverb you can stand 😉 ) so anything in the sales around the £250 mark from either would be a good start as for having a good movie music compromise start with the main stereo speakers the best pair of floor standers your budget can stand, they will probably have a matching center speaker which would be next, then the subwoofer and then lastly the effects speakers. Another consideration is having a LAN switch nearby the Denon for example is very good over the network for spotify/airplay/internet radio etc.