[Closed] Sorry singletrack

Its more the fact that the facebook feed is about 25% new stuff, 25% linking to a post I've probably read on the forum as I spend far too much time here and, most annoyingly, 50% rehashed stuff that has already been posted or featured on the website well in the past

[quote=richmtb ]Its more the fact that the facebook feed is about 25% new stuff, 25% linking to a post I've probably read on the forum as I spend far too much time here and, most annoyingly, 50% rehashed stuff that has already been posted or featured on the website well in the past
If it's about e-bikes then expect it to be posted every few weeks. It helps keep the click-count up.

I've removed you from Facebook

Nope.. Our page is still there. You had me worried for a minute 🙂

In the interests of transparency here's why we post 180 posts a week on FB...

Last month we reached 8 million Facebook timelines. The website reached 1.4 million people.

If we post a story on our website front page and do nothing more then it will get reads in the hundreds. If we then post a link post to that story on Facebook it will get thousands.

The truth of publishing is now that without using Facebook to promote our content we wouldn't have enough readers to view the ads to pay for the site (And by pay for the site I mean contribute to the wages of 12 full time members of staff).

Now, we post links to old stories too. These are stories that are, in new age publisher speak referred to as, evergreen content.

evergreen content is content that is still relevant or interesting despite it being published at an earlier date. A news item on an event report is not such content. A story about riding in Iceland probably is.

Now, you can see from our story read counts on the front page that each story gets read in the thousands. However, last month we reached 8 million people on Facebook with our posts and 1.4 million people on this site. Clearly not everyone reads the stories we publish. There is, in short, a huge audience who have never read any particular story we publish. Together with the fact that much of what we publish is evergreen that means we have a tremendous resource at our disposal in the form of content that most people have not yet seen.

When they do see it they also see the ads. They may also decide to return to us again and some may decide to ultimately subscribe directly.

"But what about those of us who have seen the stories you keep reposting on Facebook?", I hear you cry.

Well, that's where Facebook's rather clever algorithm comes into play.

Facebook does a very good job of ensuring that 'most' of it's users don't see the same post more than once. If one of our posts pops up in your feed and you skip on by without clicking then FB will consider that you are not interested and it will do what it can to prevent you from seeing that same post again.

If you do click it then it will also try and make sure you don't see it again but this time it will also consider that you are clearly interested in what we have to say and it will probably show you more posts from us.

If you skip past them all it will alter it's assessment of your interest in us and reduce future exposure to our posts.

In this way we can keep having a go at exposing our existing evergreen content to users of Facebook who have not yet seen it. It's in Facebook's interest to avoid repetition as that will lead to you not having a good experience on their platform and you may decide to use it less.

But it's not perfect. yet.

If you are a regular reader of our front page and also of Facebook then there is a high likelihood that you will see a post in your fed relating to a story that you have already read. IN that case you could click the arrow at the top right of the post and choose the 'see less from this page' option. You are thn proactively helping the algorithm learn what you like and want to see.

We only want people to be exposed to our content who are interested or potentially interested in it. Facebook does a rather good job of moderating all of that. But it sometimes gets it wrong and you my feel you are getting too much.

The reality is that Facebook itself is rapidly becoming the no.1 platform for most media publishers. It is where we reach the largest audience.

This site may be where all our content is published but there is no doubt that the majority of consumption of that content is driven by Facebook.

So, apologies if you think there's too much hitting your timeline, but hopefully you can now see why that is the case. For any sources of content in your feed that you want to see less or more of, there's that link in the top right hand corner of the post that lets you adjust the way Facebook sees you.

We also earn money FROM Facebook now. If you view one of our posts on a mobile via the Facebook app then you will have seen the page loads practically instantly and rather than have to wait for your browser to load our web page you get the whole story right there on your screen served up by Facebook. That's an Instant Article and we get to put ads in there that are sourced by Facebook. We earn money from that.

So not only does Facebook have a huge amount of control over the traffic to our own website but they also have control over ad revenues that we can earn on their platform.

🙂

TLDR 🙂

Could you summarise that as a tweet?

Good explanation...

In the new era you should be able to all that with emoticons...

<TLDR/Facebookgoodforsomenotforall/best solution so far>

<you're welcome>

Could you summarise that as a tweet?

Click on articles on facebook to keep STW staff employed

Edit: If we generate loads of revenue through clicks will that pay for a better haircut for new-boy Wil?

Thanks for the interesting insights, Mark.

Could you summarise that as a tweet?

The world revolves around Facebook and since you as a Facebook account holder are actively participating in this twisted reality, you deserve everything you get.

Facebook shows you what you want to see.

If you don't want to see it then it's only because you haven't yet realised that you are wrong.

The algorithm knows what you want, even if you don't.

🙂

The algorithm knows what you want, even if you don't.

If it was that clever it would know that as I'm on this site everyday I wouldn't need to see any Singletrack posts in my Facebook feed. I've seen it all already! 😀

Anyone else turned off the notifications for Live Videos yet? Intruiged by the viewing numbers for them, can't be many shirley?

The algorithm knows what you want, even if you don't.

That must be why I've never seen a STW post on Facebook!! 15 years on the forum - I've been a fool to myself all this time. 😆

Anyone else turned off the notifications for Live Videos yet? Intruiged by the viewing numbers for them, can't be many shirley?

I am here.

You can ask if you like.

[quote=Mark ]Facebook shows you what you want to see.

I don't see any links to STW 🙂

Because you are always here

🙂

Mark - Resident Grumpy
You can ask if you like.

Too shy

I'll tell you anyway.

Yesterdays's live broadcast by Wil from Bike Park Wales has been watched by 23k people so far.

It was displayed in 83k Facebook timelines.

How many watched it live? When I have clicked on live vids (you and GCN are who spring to mind) the viewing figures seem to take a sizeable dip after an initial peak?

What does gripe a bit is that I deliberately did not sign up for the STW Facebook Daily Deals thingy, because I didn't want it in my news feed every day, but I now get the 'normal' STW Facebook thingy saying "look what's in our Daily Deals thingy today!".

I don't want to, which is why I didn't sign up for it, grrr....

Yes, that's typical of Live videos. You do get an initial spike which drops off after 20-30 seconds. That's principally because that's all the time most people have to care about watching a video. After that it's down to the subject matter and how interesting it is.

However, because Facebook converts all live broadcasts into a Facebook post after the fact, the vast majority of views of any live broadcast happen after the broadcast has finished. Wil's video reached about 3k viewers by the end of the live broadcast. The rest of the views have happened subsequently.

All that from mark is very interesting, and confirms to me why I've never had facebook! I'm probably one of a rapidly diminishing few that haven't ever looked at a facebook page!

Mark - Resident Grumpy

Yes, that's typical of Live videos. You do get an initial spike which drops off after 20-30 seconds. That's principally because that's all the time most people have to care about watching a video. After that it's down to the subject matter and how interesting it is.

However, because Facebook converts all live broadcasts into a Facebook post after the fact, the vast majority of views of any live broadcast happen after the broadcast has finished. Wil's video reached about 3k viewers by the end of the live broadcast. The rest of the views have happened subsequently.

Quite interesting. 20-30s is also roughly how long folk will spend watching videos in work for before paranoia kicks in 😉
Do you find that using Live gives a bit of a ratings bump compared to just filming, editing and putting up as a normal post?

I'm probably one of a rapidly diminishing few that haven't ever looked at a facebook page!

Its just as well - you really don't want to know what everybody is saying about you there.

70% of US Facebook users get ALL their daily news from their Facebook timeline. That is to say they follow links by media outlets in their timelines that may display an instant article or take them to the media website itself. The point being their news consumption begins with their timeline. These people don't look at TV for their news. If they see a video clip of a new program it will be as a result of clicking a link within their timeline.

For a growing majority of the web connected world Facebook IS the internet.
And for these people their mobile phone is screen no.1 in their lives.

Do you find that using Live gives a bit of a ratings bump compared to just filming, editing and putting up as a normal post?

Yes. Live works much better. However, that's also down to the fact that Facebook gets to prioritise content sources. ie. give more exposure to one type of post over another. Right now FB is very big on Live broadcasting and it wants us publishers to use it as much as possible. So it makes sure that when we do use it that they push it into as many timelines as possible.

They may change their strategy at any time. They do make adjustments to their algorithm all the time. At the moment, Live is 'in'

Also, live video broadcasting is much easier for us to produce. There's no post editing time required, just a brave person in front of the camera with instructions not to say **** or bugger!.

🙂

[img] [/img]

Thanks for the considered reply. Clearly I must try to fill facebook with more other stuff to balance it out. I noticed a few days ago it was becoming too much. Won't stop me coming to the website - just I'd like Face's in facebook.
Thanks

[quote=Mark ]70% of US Facebook users get ALL their daily news from their Facebook timeline.

That's kind of scary, because I presume it tends to be self affirming - if they've shown an interest in particular views before they'll tend to get more stuff with those sort of views. Explains why it all gets so polarised.

Yup. That's called the Facebook Bubble.

If you are a racist then you'll find that you get to read a lot of racist crap in your timeline and you'd be forgiven for thinking everyone you know of FB is a racist knob like you.

It's also a theory as to why many of us were taken by surprise at both the last general election and the referendum. Our timelines, which are an increasing source of all our daily updates on life only reflected our own preferences. All the stuff we don't like, for example the opinions of others that differ from our own, tend to get muted and filtered out.

Hmmm.

Yesterdays's live broadcast by Wil from Bike Park Wales has been watched by 23k people so far.

Utter sh*te it was too, wobbling around with a camera like some kind of amateur. I got bored after about 15s of nothing happening bar a grey Welsh sky and drab hillside.

I got bored after about 15s of nothing happening bar a grey Welsh sky and drab hillside.

Sounds like it caught Wales perfectly.

Somehow makes me happy I left FaceBook - too much control.

Rachel

I'm 'friends' with STW FB but how come I can't see STW posts on my fb 'dashboard?

[quote=Mark ]Yup. That's called the Facebook Bubble.
If you are a racist then you'll find that you get to read a lot of racist crap in your timeline and you'd be forgiven for thinking everyone you know of FB is a racist knob like you.

Though I have FB friends in the US, one of whom is a Trump supporter, one a Clinton supporter - and reading the comments on their posts it would appear that both of them have friends (people they actually know better than they know me!) on the other side of that political divide, and all seem to get along well enough. I guess they're both towards the moderate end - I don't see that part of FB where Trump supporters only have other Trump supporters for friends (I can get a glimpse by looking at the comments on some posts they share!)

Mark - really well explained. And without getting grumpy - hurrah!
Makes sense to me. But as a regular visitor here, I've skipped the Facebook stuff.
Oh and the most recent edition of the mag is great - lots of nice stuff relevant to me.

Surely the Facebook bubble is no different from buying a paper that affirms your views and then having real world friends that do the same.

One of the things I like about single track is that is does sort of burst that bubble.

I can see me retiring from facebook soon. So many posts about some many things. I still have to contend that STW overdid it, hence the post. Over-saturation backlash as it were.

I do find it an odd business decision that rather than invest in your own successful website and forum, you whore yourself to Facebook and give up control.

Also the front page of the site would get more hits if it was better laid out and allowed everyone to comment.

Not a fan really are you dragon.

🙂

But at least you are here, eh?

At least he's taking a break from slagging off the public sector.

Hey I said it was a successful site and forum but i just think with the right kind of investment and quality control it could be brilliant. I don't see Facebook being something that will take you to the next level.

But it isn't only STW getting negative feedback on moving more into Facebook others have seen similar. The UK isn't the USA.

Computer says no.

Some of my fb friends are surprised at how many mtb posts I "like" 🙂

Mark thanks for the update. 12 full time staff, excellent

EDIT:

Hey I said it was a successful site and forum but i just think with the right kind of investment and quality control it could be brilliant. I don't see Facebook being something that will take you to the next level.

I think the numbers/data tell different story

I reckon Dragon has shares in Friends Reunited.

I do find it an odd business decision that rather than invest in your own successful website and forum, you whore yourself to Facebook and give up control.

Well, using Facebook costs less than redesigning a site but ultimately you have to go where the traffic is. The reality of most "news" websites is that little traffic comes to the homepage - it comes via a link from a google search or some kind of social media share.

If a user 5 subjects they're interested in do they go to each homepage a few times a day to see if theres anything new or do they see what's aggregated into their Facebook timeline and click on what appeals.

All that from mark is very interesting, and confirms to me why I've never had facebook! I'm probably one of a rapidly diminishing few that haven't ever looked at a facebook page!

There are two of us!

I get all my news from STW - wey, hey?!?

Thanks for the explanations Mark and the transparency. I admire the openness re the fact that any reader/forum member/FB person is a raw material that you - excuse the awful expression coming up - monetise. That should always be borne in mind when other issues re the STW experience are considered!!

Interesting thread. Thx

The reality is that Facebook itself is rapidly becoming the no.1 platform for most media publishers. It is where we reach the largest audience.

Sorry but that's (almost) rubbish. I have numerous outlets "liked" and barely any ever make it onto my feed. Never mind a sizeable number of my actual friends who never get a look in.

It's also a theory as to why many of us were taken by surprise at both the last general election and the referendum. Our timelines, which are an increasing source of all our daily updates on life only reflected our own preferences. All the stuff we don't like, for example the opinions of others that differ from our own, tend to get muted and filtered out.

This however, is true. Scottish referendum was won months before by the fact that everyone anyone knew was voting Yes. Doesn't help that so many people are quick to block anyone with differing points of view rather than trying to engage with them.

But yeah, Facebook is well past it's best for me, too much crap, not enough from the people I want to know about and the rest seems to be moaning about something or other. [Rhymes with] Padlock works a treat on tidying the intrusive rubbish up though. Funny that.

mikey-simmo - Member
I've removed you from Facebook. It appears that you've taken over with too many posts. Getting 4 per day is just annoying. Keep up the great magazine work, I just don't need Facebook full of the next greatest thing.
Thanks

A whole 4, how can you possibly cope with such a deluge of information...

Seems like FB are taking over the (on-line) ad world...

Facebook almost tripled its profits in the third quarter of 2016 as the social media giant took an even larger slice of the online advertising market. The company reported a 59% year-over-year increase in advertising revenue on Wednesday. Net income for the three months ending 30 September rose to $2.38bn from $896m a year earlier.

The jump in profits and revenues comes as traditional publishers are hemorrhaging advertising dollars and announcing cutbacks. News groups including the Daily Mail, the Guardian, New York Times and Wall Street Journal have all announced layoffs in recent weeks.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/nov/02/facebook-profits-triple-online-advertising-publishing

Sorry but that's (almost) rubbish. I have numerous outlets "liked" and barely any ever make it onto my feed. Never mind a sizeable number of my actual friends who never get a look in.

It's absolutely true.
You are confusing 'likes' with 'reach' they are very different things.
Reach represents the timelines a post has actually appeared in. In september we reached 8 million timelines with our posts. We have 545,000 page likes.

You don;t have to like a page to have that pages posts appear in your timeline. Just because you like a page doesn't mean all of it's posts will appear in your timeline. The algorithm is far more sophisticated than that and what you see is based on what you are interested in.

http://www.itpro.co.uk/strategy/27512/facebook-forecasts-fall-in-growth-as-adverts-hit-peak?_mout=1&utm_campaign=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&tpid=175409349150

I have numerous outlets "liked" and barely any ever make it onto my feed.

If you go to a liked Website on Facebook and click on the "Liked" dropdown box you can select to see it 'first' or default and also whether to get notifications. When you first like something you'll see a some posts - if you don't interact with them (ie like/share/comment) you'll see fewer from that source. The same as your friends - you see much more stuff from people you interact with.