[Closed] Sons have just been accused of shoplifting

Tell the boys to chill.
Tell the shop to provide some evidence
Tell the school that your kids have been fingered by this unknown group who were themselves accused of shoplifting and brought your kids into the frame to deflect blame from themselves.

Oh yes, and tell the school that if the kids really were hardened crims then they'd hardly have fessed their real names to the shopkeeper would they?

Tell the shop to provide some evidence

You mean I should call them up or pay them a visit and ask for evidence?

The obvious answer would be to go to speak to the shop owner and get them to show you the evidence of it happening (something more tangible than some other kids saying something) and if they cannot prove that, ask them to reconsider their threat to speak to the school.

If you have a dog collar*, put it on, then when the school calls you go in and see them.

Seriously though, the school should back you up anyway if they know the kids. There's no evidence here other than the testimony of the other kids who, if they are accused of shoplifting, shouldn't have much standing in the eyes of the shop staff.

It's hard to be accused, but they know they're in the right and that should give them a bit of strength and confidence.

* the Priest kind not the fetish kind

You mean I should call them up or pay them a visit and ask for evidence

Sorry. No, do nothing yet. If the school do get in the kids' faces and accuse them of something then ask them to ask the shop for evidence.
Don't you be running around building/demolishing a non existent case for them.

Innocent until proven guilty, carpe corpus and all that.

* the Priest kind not the fetish kind

there's a difference?

I'd be in the shop with a video camera running accusing them of threatening my children making false accusations, intimidation etc. (all that they'd done put in legal jargon) And make sure that they sold nothing for at least half and hour. I'd be along to the school suggesting they inform kids they are likely to be wrongly acccused of shop lifting and that they advise children from the school not to go into the shop.

In short I'd be their worst nightmare, and a good dad.

there’s a difference?

Post of the day 🙂

Surely the school teachers and/or head know your kids? If they are of sound reputation you have nothing to worry about. I'd just wait, see what happens. Normally the school would escalate an incident to the parents. So what is the concern here?

Whats any of this got to do with the school?

bruneep
Full Member

Whats any of this got to do with the school?

Very little, but being in uniform can be seen as representing the school I suppose.

In short I’d be their worst nightmare, and a good dad.

Not sure that covers the nuclear option you just described

Read the OP, Bruneep.

Edit: that isn't the nuclear option, that's the mild version. 😉

I’d be in the shop with a video camera running accusing them of threatening my children making false accusations, intimidation etc. (all that they’d done put in legal jargon) And make sure that they sold nothing for at least half and hour. I’d be along to the school suggesting they inform kids they are likely to be wrongly acccused of shop lifting and that they advise children from the school not to go into the shop.

In short I’d be their worst nightmare, and a good dad.

Lordy.

I rarely agree with Ed but, this time, I do.

What, as a responsible parent, can I/should I be doing at this moment?

Let the school know, tell them what you thinks, they'll likely agree. Can't see much to be gained by going to the shop.

I used to shoplift as a kid (mainly for dares). My mother thought butter wouldn't melt in my mouth. I was the angelic blond-haired kid. Just saying.

I’d be in the shop with a video camera running accusing them of threatening my children making false accusations, intimidation etc. (all that they’d done put in legal jargon) And make sure that they sold nothing for at least half and hour. I’d be along to the school suggesting they inform kids they are likely to be wrongly acccused of shop lifting and that they advise children from the school not to go into the shop.

In short I’d be a bit of a tool

FTFY

Saxon, the bit of your post where you say:

In fact, my boys would never in the lives even think of the possibility of taking something that wasn’t theirs.

Is worryingly similar to Edu's. The vast majority of parents believe their kids are angels and can do no wrong. Many of them are mistaken.

I'm sure that you are correct in your position that your kids have done nothing wrong, but I reckon it's worth backing away from your position ever so slightly.
Instead of " never in their lives even remotely consider" just say " said they didn't do it, I belive them and there is nothing to suggest they did. Show me some evidence/ facts"

I think its more powerful to show that you're considering the situation and evidence in front of you, rather that a point blank refusal to even countenance the suggestion"

You can't just go fingering kids.

I rarely agree with bridges but, this time, I do

So what is the concern here?

The children were upset – as a parent that would be enough concern to me that I would want to do something about it to show them they have my support and backing. I certainly wouldn't turn my back and assume the school would react correctly.

Advise the school of what's going on, try to speak with the year head, they'll know your boys and will at least be prepared for the accusation if/when it comes, and will be able to deal with it. Let the school deal with the shop. Tell your lads to avoid going into the shop in future.

I suspect the shop are looking for an excuse to kick up a fuss with the school over the real "naughty" kids, and your kids were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

The school should ask the shop for CCTV evidence to support the allegation. Otherwise, the school will be asked to take the word of the kids who were causing the original trouble over the word of your kids who you say have no record of trouble.

Do nothing. You over reacting will upset your kids even more. The shop may do nothing. If they do,then you talk to the school.

Lesson to your kids - always walk away from any sign of trouble so you don't get dragged in to it.

I'm not a dad, but I think...

I’d be in the shop with a video camera running accusing them of threatening my children making false accusations, intimidation etc. (all that they’d done put in legal jargon) And make sure that they sold nothing for at least half and hour. I’d be along to the school suggesting they inform kids they are likely to be wrongly acccused of shop lifting and that they advise children from the school not to go into the shop. the boys, and calmly have a discussion with the owner about what happened

You mean I should call them up or pay them a visit and ask for evidence?

I'd get a full and calm explanation from the boys and have them explain exactly who it was behind the counter that reprimanded them. I then be down there immediately - by myself (perhaps with boys outside in case they were needed for any explaining) - and ask politely but firmly to speak with the individual concerned. I'd let them put forward their case and ask for evidence etc. I'd ask what right they had bringing the school element into it. No point getting shirty first, just keep it calm and concise. Weigh up the facts at the end and play it from there.

IME as a dad, boys can exaggerate things, especially when they're the ones in trouble. So it might end up being their words against the boys' words. If you need to escalate, then get the manager/shopkeeper out front and make your feelings clear and any action you expect to be taken, eg 'I suggest you have a word with employee X about their response... blah blah".

No doubt it'll blow over soon enough and the boys have to decide when next to return to the shop. Either way, rock up, say your bit, avoid getting shirty, draw your conclusion and move on.

EDIT: I'd also speak to the boys' teachers and head/deputy to clear the air.

I rarely agree with bridges but, this time, I do

I agree with IHN.

Go into the shop and look for all the products labelled "part of a multipack, not to be sold separately" and then ask if he wants to take it further!

You can’t just go fingering kids.

That's why he needs the dog collar.

Give your kids a petrol bomb each to take to school and they can lob them in on the way past.

What, as a responsible parent, can I/should I be doing at this moment?

IMHO do nothing. Perhaps teach them not to give out their personal details so willingly but other than that wait and see. I assume they'll not be giving their custom to that shop again for a while.

Likely they don't even call the school; if they do, likely the school do nothing to the individuals but remind everyone they represent the school when in uniform; if you do get called in or your children are in any way punished (and are 100% certain that your children would NEVER* do this, or pretend to do this, or have been dared to do this) then go see the school, say "its surely a matter for the police".

*just beware, not every child who appears innocent to their parent is always perfect 24/7. They could just be really crap at shoplifting and got caught!

Police won’t come out for a bike, don’t expect them to raise a fuss for a packet of Nerds 😂

I used to shoplift as a kid (mainly for dares). My mother thought butter wouldn’t melt in my mouth. I was the angelic blond-haired kid. Just saying.

*Raises hand also*

Not saying this was your kids SaxonRider, as I'm sure they wouldn't have reacted the way they did if it was, but it might actually be a useful lesson for them to not ever consider stealing in the future.

I'd just suggest they don't shop at that newsagents again and move on (plus other good points if the school is silly enough to take it seriously, if the newsagent reports them).

Given the amount of scrotes round here when I drop Hermes parcels off - and the general ineffectiveness of the police - I don't think newsagents have an easy time of it with their clientele and probably could do with a bit of leeway if they handle it badly...

I'd wait for things to calm down tonight, get a better picture of what happened tomorrow with cool heads.
If the story is the same then I'd go into the shop and have a calm conversation with the person who accused them, with your boys outside. Explain the situation and ask the shopkeeper if they have any CCTV they could look at to determine if your boys are reeling the truth or not and that you'll be back tomorrow to find out. Explain that you trust your boys and that you expect that the other party involved are the real cause of the problem and you hope he can review his allegation and move on.

Unfortunately the guy who runs my local shop is an unreasonable ****er and personally I'd flip my shit and offer him outside and probably get the granny kicked out of me.

I’d be having a calm and collected conversation with the shop keeper to be honest. My friends and I always used to give the name of another, really nice kid, in our year group if we ever got in trouble. Poor guy must’ve been on a local police watchlist

Police won’t come out for a bike, don’t expect them to raise a fuss for a packet of Nerds 😂

My old school has an "in house" copper*! Presumably, he's now dealt with the drug dealing, gang violence, sectarianism and other crap that went on so is ready for some proper criminality.

*He is officially based there. Actually there were cops at the school most days when I was there so its not a huge change - but now its the same cop every day!

Keep an open mind. Don't take advice from nut jobs on here.

It must be a nightmare running a shop like that with schoolkids in. I suspect it will come to nothing but if the kids want to keep popping in on their way home then have a word with the owner. Otherwise just wait to see if anything happens and tell the kids it is not worth worrying about.

I used to shoplift as a kid (mainly for dares). My mother thought butter wouldn’t melt in my mouth. I was the angelic blond-haired kid. Just saying.

Conversely, my mum always suspected I was 'up to no good', so I was up against it from day one. I just got very, very good, at being very, very deceitful. She really didn't have a clue. She still thinks I'm up to no good even now. I'm always one step ahead of her...

Kids in shops always reminds me of this film - from 22:37 but the whole thing is good if you have time for it 🙂

This sort of stuff can sometimes be difficult for young minds to make sense of. I would be trying to get an apology from the shop keeper directly to your children.

Keep an open mind. Don’t take advice from nut jobs on here.

**** that*

Go down to the shop without your kids and get right in the face of this sack of shit and find out if he still thinks he's a ****ing hard case when he's faced with a grown man and not a 7 and 9 year old.

People who intimidate and threaten kids are ****ing scum. If they think there's a crime being committed call the police. If they have problems with too many kids in the shop then only let 2 in at a time. That's what all the shops round my school did.

If they just want to put the wind up the kids cause they can then **** 'em. Let them ****ing try that with me.

****s.

*I'm having a bad day so take everything I say with a grain of salt or, better yet, just ignore me.

In short I’d be a bit of a tool

Absolutely, the shop owner has been a bullying tool putting the frighteners on kids, return the compliment in an appropriate manner. Some suggestions are best not made on a public forum.

As for those suggesting that Saxonrider's kids are lying shoplifters, I think that's unlikely. It's also why I'd be proactive and contact the school about the shop. UK schools are funny things, I've taught in some, they take an interest in some things they shouldn't and don't take an interest in some things they should. Better to be the parent waging war on a bullying shop keeper than have your kids black marked by the school for something they haven't done.

poly
Free Member

IMHO do nothing. Perhaps teach them not to give out their personal details so willingly but other than that wait and see. I assume they’ll not be giving their custom to that shop again for a while.

*just beware, not every child who appears innocent to their parent is always perfect 24/7. They could just be really crap at shoplifting and got caught!

I think the sensible thing is to do nothing. Not really a win situation if the shop has made a mistake, because having your 12 and 14 year old boys crying again inside/outside the shop wont do their confidence any good. Especially if someone from their school sees them.

And if the shop produces evidence of them stealing or a member of staff states they were witnessed, then things get a lot worse ... then your kids are bawling again, and your too embarrassed to use that shop ever again.

Lesson here is to learn street smarts; they seem to have mastered the crying their innocence to their parents, but thats only effective up until 11 or 12 years of age before its just too embarrassing to consider. The next lesson is to always have a false name and address to give to people when you been caught doing something you shouldn`t have.

Edukator
Free Member
In short I’d be a bit of a tool

Absolutely, the shop owner has been a bullying tool putting the frighteners on kids, return the compliment in an appropriate manner. Some suggestions are best not made on a public forum.

As for those suggesting that Saxonrider’s kids are lying shoplifters, I think that’s unlikely ...

Yes. It appears you would be. But pretty sure it does not achieve any benefit to yourself or the child accused.

Any persons child can do wrong. Do you know Saxonriders children personally to give an informed opinion?

Police won’t come out for a bike, don’t expect them to raise a fuss for a packet of Nerds

Collective noun for well behaved kids?

as a parent that would be enough concern to me that I would want to do something about it to show them they have my support and backing

Exactly. So why do you need to ask Singletrackworld how to show your children they have your backing and support?

@molgrips

Kids in shops always reminds me of this film – from 22:37 but the whole thing is good if you have time for it

Actually that seems a lot like a STW thread. Lots of shouting, distraction and a sprinkling of politics!

Go down to the shop without your kids and get right in the face of this sack of shit and find out if he still thinks he’s a **** hard case when he’s faced with a grown man and not a 7 and 9 year old.

Alternatively make sure to educate the children properly so they appreciate attention to detail is such circumstances- like the difference between years 7 and 9 and being 7 and 9 years old.

I'd first establish whether with the shopkeeper (I'd go down there and ask) if your kids actually had anything nicked on them. If not, and there's no cctv of them pocketing stuff, then I'd be telling the shopekeeper that you're reporting them to the Police for falsely accusing and threatening kids.

Keep it all calm and none of this macho nonsense. Kids obviously can't go in there any more whatever happens.

I'd phone the school to give them a heads up.
They'll have a community Police Officer attached - make it their problem.

Every shop local to our high school does one in, one out and that's what the police will tell this shop to do.

Any persons child can do wrong. Do you know Saxonriders children personally to give an informed opinion?

I don't need to, I'll take Saxonrider's word for it, he's one of the STWers you can take at his word.

Rather than worrying about the unproven and unlikely case of shoplifting consider the legality of extracting a minor's name from them under duress.

In fact, my boys would never in the lives even think of the possibility of taking something that wasn’t theirs

I'm not a parent but I do see bad parents who genuinely believe their badly behaved kids are saints.

Even 'good' kids can be bad sometimes.

Make a counter claim against the shop owner of touching their front bottom and bribe them into free sweets for life.

I doubt the shop will actually bother calling the school and if they did what exactly is the school going to say? If it happened outside of the school gates they will most likely not care as it is not their problem.

If the boys haven't done anything I would tell them to forget about it and just go to a different shop for a couple of weeks until it all blows over.

The shop were most likely just fed up with kids coming in and stealing or causing issues and unfortunately took their frustration out on the first two who didn't run off or back chat, not fair to your boys but just bad luck.

Edukator
Free Member
Any persons child can do wrong. Do you know Saxonriders children personally to give an informed opinion?

I don’t need to, I’ll take Saxonrider’s word for it, he’s one of the STWers you can take at his word.

Have you met Saxonrider personally to give an informed opinion on his word?
... rather than what you have just read on an internet site.

ps. that is meant as no slight against Saxonrider who I have not personally met either to give an informed opinion on his word or not.

like the difference between years 7 and 9 and being 7 and 9 years old.

To be fair, I did say ignore me.

Anyway, WTF is Year 7 and 9. Is that Primary 7 and 2nd year (if you're Scottish)? So an 11 year old and a 13 year old?

Actually, shopkeeper is still a ****. **** 'em. I guess it isn't as bad to try to intimidate 11 and 13 year olds but it's still a total **** move.

If they're having problems the solution is still to just have 2 or 3 schoolkids in at a time. Like every other shop near a school in the country.

Unuales, you're a troll who rejoined a month or so ago after a ban until proven otherwise.

Think about that.

Saxonrider on the other hand has started 1600 topics since the great hack. We've followed him through highs and lows and there's a consitent theme - honesty, integrity and saying things the way they are.

Think about that too.

that is meant as no slight against Saxonride

I'm not racist but... .

*Raises hand also*

Straight 'A' student, prefect, teacher's pet and raises hand also.

Although in my case a friend worked there (Tandy) and would tell us when no one was looking and we'd just walk out with whatever we fancied. Still shoplifting though. Kids do stupid things sometimes.

Although, that's not to say the OP's kids did.

I'm not saying your kids are thieving arseholes.

All I'm saying is that I was a thieving arsehole when I was a kid.

But I'm not saying your kids are thieving arseholes.

I think maybe people who were thieving arseholes when they were kids should just stay out of this thread. We get it, you stole stuff (ooh, you edge-lords, you).

Believe it or not, the vast majority of kids never steal anything and kids should always be given the benefit of the doubt if there is no actual evidence. False accusations, especially if they aren't believed, can really damage a kid's confidence for years afterwards.

Easy answer, completely ignore it, doubt the shop will phone the school, even if they did, the school will just do absolutely nothing anyway, just tell the kids to relax and just avoid that shop.

Easy answer, completely ignore it, doubt the shop will phone the school, even if they did, the school will just do absolutely nothing anyway, just tell the kids to relax and just avoid that shop.

This. Life’s too short.

the school will just do absolutely nothing anyway,

They might write it down though, Saxonrider, do a freedom of information request on your sons' school records in a month or so. Schools keep records of stuff they really shouldn't, or they used to, maybe they've cleaned up their act with the regs.

https://ico.org.uk/your-data-matters/schools/pupils-info/

I’d first establish whether with the shopkeeper (I’d go down there and ask) if your kids actually had anything nicked on them. If not, and there’s no cctv of them pocketing stuff, then I’d be telling the shopekeeper that you’re reporting them to the Police for falsely accusing and threatening kids.

Pointless escalation, unless the CCTV shows them at all times in shot clearly not lifting anything then it can be argued both ways. Shop CCTV is primarily to discourage scrotes from threatening staff and raiding the till not stealing a mars bar because the police aren't interested anymore in low level shoplifting.

I doubt the shop will actually bother calling the school and if they did what exactly is the school going to say? If it happened outside of the school gates they will most likely not care as it is not their problem.

If the boys haven’t done anything I would tell them to forget about it and just go to a different shop for a couple of weeks until it all blows over.

The shop were most likely just fed up with kids coming in and stealing or causing issues and unfortunately took their frustration out on the first two who didn’t run off or back chat, not fair to your boys but just bad luck.

Far more realistic

If the school make something of it just talk to them. If it's out of character they'll get the benefit of the doubt and it will blow over.

Have a chat with the boys about avoiding similar circumstances and not hanging round when others causing issues.

Easy answer, completely ignore it, doubt the shop will phone the school, even if they did, the school will just do absolutely nothing anyway, just tell the kids to relax and just avoid that shop.

I am inclined to go with this, unless Saxonrider can think of something specific he wants to achieve.

In the unlikely event the school get involved the OP can just explain how the misunderstanding occured. If that explanation doesn't satisfy the school for some reason then the ball is in their court, and a plan of action can be formulated at that point.

I'd explain to the kids that mistakes can happen, and that if they have done nothing wrong there is nothing to be worried about, great life lesson, and if the kids still look worried after that, and the shop has cctv evidence they got a really valuable learning experience coming.

I know your a fool

People around these parts know better, unuales. I'm really not accusing you of racism, have another look. You can't throw doubt at Saxonriders account of events without implying he's a liar. Just as you can't start a sentence with "I'm not racist but..." without folowing it up with something racist thus demonstrating yourself to be racist. It's an analogy with how you are calling Saxonrider a liar but claiming it's not a slight.

It's "you're" a fool by the way.

You can't throw doubt at Saxonriders account of events without implying he's a liar. Thousands of posts here say he's not.

So I don't think you're racist, but you're a troll until you prove otherwise. Start now.

Anyway, WTF is Year 7 and 9. Is that Primary 7 and 2nd year (if you’re Scottish)? So an 11 year old and a 13 year old?

Age started plus year of attendance.
It's the American system, now we are all living in Amerika.

Edukator
Free Member
the school will just do absolutely nothing anyway,

They might write it down though, Saxonrider, do a freedom of information request on your sons’ school records in a month or so. Schools keep records of stuff they really shouldn’t, or they used to, maybe they’ve cleaned up their act with the regs.

https://ico.org.uk/your-data-matters/schools/pupils-info/
/blockquote>

Without any proof, nothing happened other than some kids made a false accusation and no 'shoplifting' occurred, i doubt any school employee would do anything, if they did i would more expect the school to be more concerned about the pupils wellbeing and why this shop had their information and were making accusation to the school!

As before, do nothing, make a joke about it, laugh about it, lighten the mood for your kids to show them the absolute lack of seriousness about this whole situation.

 

I would probably pop in, alone, without the boys and have a very calm chat with the shopkeeper.
Explain that if he has evidence that they have done this then I would like to see it and that if he can show it to me I will be down on them like a ton of bricks and they will be grounded for a year and then drag them back to grovel in front of him.
Also explain that if no such evidence can be produced then any such accusations should be dropped immediately. Not sure what I would do if he persists with an accusation once I know it to be false but hopefully if a calm and civil conversation has taken place he will see it the same way and drop it.
.
As a few people have said every parent tends to assume the best of their children regardless, which true. Chances are the OP is right and they didn't do anything but there is a slim chance they may have done, verify this as above and then decide what to do.

I wouldn't be impressed if I'd been falsly accused, threatened, intimidated and been coerced into giving my name which would be passed onto my school and then my father laughed about it, Argee.

I would want assurance that the school was on my side and not under the impression I was a shop lifter. I'd want my parents to look after me and my interests.

It seems to me that the purpose of strating this thread was to get feedback about the best way to go about it. We have three camps:

1/ don't worry about it (not possible, they're all worrying hence the thread)
2/ be proactive about clearing the kids' names and making sure they're not recorded as shop lifters by the school
3/ 2 plus give the shop keeper reason to regret his bullying ways.

Plenty for the OP to read now.

Plenty of shops around (I assume, correct me if I'm wrong), ignore the shop and tell your boys not to go back. There's only an issue "if" the shop grass to the school, which on balance is unlikely. If they had evidence why not threaten to go straight to the police? More than likely an empty threat to try and scare your lads. If they do call the school and they engage you, then calmly state you trust your kids version of events until any evidence proves otherwise.

Life lesson for the boys: walk away from trouble and don't give out your personal details to anybody you don't know (and if there are two of you, one keeps lookout! 😀)

I’ve changed my mind on my earlier sensible approach. Either:

1: Go to the shop every day for the rest of your life and nick one item each time as a form of petty revenge.

2: Purchase a lighter from the shopkeeper and then set fire to the crisps section and scream “**** you lying scum” before running away.

3: Like option one, visit the shop each day, steal one item but replace it with a frozen sausage each time.

4: Hide a dead fish in the shop somewhere.

5: Bum his dog. Does he have a dog? If not you might have to play the long game by befriending him, convincing him he really needs a dog in his life and then bumming it

1/ don’t worry about it (not possible, they’re all worrying hence the thread)

But reassured it's a storm in a teacup, escalation will get the accusations broadcast far and wide rather than forgotten about the following day when some other kids try it on

2/ be proactive about clearing the kids’ names and making sure they’re not recorded as shop lifters by the school

At this point it's a safe assumption the school doesn't know about the incident. Escalation is likely to make sure they know.

3/ 2 plus give the shop keeper reason to regret his bullying ways.

The USDAW rep might have something to say about abusing shop workers

What on earth are some of you on about? Freedom of information request? CCTV? Confront the shop keeper? "recorded as shoplifters by the school"? Good grief.

There is a small chance he might call the school. Even if he does, the school will respond in a proportionate way. If this shopkeeper is inclined to call the school - I expect he would have done so on previous occasions, so the school will be even less likely to over-react. If you really wanted to, you could have a pre-emptive chat with their head of year - more to inform them about what had happened and let them know that the kids were (very) upset about it. As others have said, if they know the kids they will realize that this is nothing anyway.

There is no risk that the police will be involved to any meaningful degree.

The only circumstances in which I would go to the shop and talk to the owner was if I was concerned whether my kids were actually as innocent as they were claiming, ie: to actually ask the shopkeeper what happened for my own benefit, rather than some desire to confront. However - if they had tried to pinch something, I doubt that they would even have told you about this whole incident.

Personally, I'd be more focused on talking to your kids about what happened - about fairness etc. Maybe about recognizing and removing themselves from situations like that.

There is a small chance he might call the school.

This.

I'm sure my teenage shoplifting would have been nipped in the bud if a shopkeeper had called up. For the record we always knew the names of kids from other schools and removed our school ties before going in shops.

Even the Police didn't follow up. We were once stopped for throwing old potatoes at a wall (potatoes given to us by one of our parents!) Copper went off his nut and took all our details and promised there would be a letter. There wasn't.

I did discover my then ~5 year old stole a sweet once (maybe it's genetic?) and his harrowing experience of me driving him back to the shop to and returning the goods was probably enough to save him from a stretch (tears all around including half the shop!)

Other that saxonrider's good character and him vouching for his kids in an incident that he wasn't at, what evidence do we have for going all Harry Brown on some shopkeeper who's probably being robbed every single day by kids and adults, trying to make ends meet, and has been told by others that they were involved.

Sure in an innocent until proven guilty world there'd be no accusation without the CCTV or whatever, but that would be my explanation to the kids - and to cut him a bit of slack as well. At 12 and 14 they're old enough to understand the other side and why the reaction was what it was. And as others have said, I doubt very much that school will be informed.

If you want to make a deal of it, innocent until guilty cuts both ways and the shopkeeper also has to be believed until he's shown not to be. He was given info by people there at the time, after all.

My kids have never shoplifted - to my knowledge - but when there were some cases of group bullying at school, I told them that I believed that they weren't involved....but only until / if I found out they were. Maybe ask your kids if they want you to go down there and ask to see the CCTV.....is there a small chance they might not want to take it further? My wife works at a school and IHHO 98% of year 9's are little bastards one way or another.

FWIW not accusing Saxonrider of lying. Just saying that no-one apart from the kids and maybe the shopkeeper if he's studied the CCTV actually knows. There's a difference.

They might write it down though, Saxonrider, do a freedom of information request on your sons’ school records in a month or so. Schools keep records of stuff they really shouldn’t, or they used to, maybe they’ve cleaned up their act with the regs.

I think you'll find that this is not the case. Schools are very careful about what data they record and have specific systems to record appropriate data. They are required to have a DPO and all staff receive regular GDPR training. It's highly unlikely that an accusation of shoplifting by a third party, with no evidence, will be "recorded" anywhere. You also can't request personal information relating to someone else who is 12 and over regardless of whether you are the parent or not.

The likely scenario is this:

Shopkeeper contacts main reception via email or telephone.

Person receiving the call/email looks up who the HOY is for the respective children.

HOY is notified.

HOY/Pastoral team might contact the shop to see if there is any evidence. Based on the answer to this the HOY may or may not decide to contact parents (as the incident occurred outside school) and this will only be to ensure the wellbeing of the students, notify of police involvement if there is evidence and address any safeguarding concerns about the shopkeeper's behaviour (if there are any). Without any evidence though there will be no need for any further "action". The only record of this will be the email sent to HOY/Pastoral team which is unlikely to be included in any SAR because schools tend to use initials in emails when referring to students and staff in case the screen is viewed inadvertently eg shown to a class by accident on the whiteboard/projector (yes it does happen 🙄) or a student happens to be near the teacher's desk etc. They are all pretty careful about data in general.

Tutors might be advised to remind students of the need to behave appropriately at all times and in particular when in uniform or something along those lines.

Unless there are any other safeguarding issues surrounding these students it is unlikely that this will be recorded in any child protection systems they may have. It will only be recorded if the information is likely to be useful to external agencies involved with any ongoing concerns and only if there is evidence to support the accusation or the police are involved.

There is also the issue that the shopkeeper has potentially recorded personal details in contravention of GDPR, and you could request that these are destroyed/notify the police or ICO. Might be worth calling the ICO to ask what the precedent is here as I am unsure.

do a freedom of information request

SAR, not FoI

If you really wanted to, you could have a pre-emptive chat with their head of year – more to inform them about what had happened and let them know that the kids were (very) upset about it.

This, this, this. Or better yet, whoever has the happy task of pastoral care for their year groups.

SAR, not FoI

Semi Automatic Rifle? This is the kind of STW response we want. 🙂

Straight ‘A’ student, prefect, teacher’s pet and raises hand also.

Just like my nephew who got banned from the local shop, backfired when his mum asked him to pop out to get some groceries, so he had to leg it to the next nearest shop - all unravelled when he returned having taken twice as long as it should & out of breath. Marched him down to the local shop to apologise & shop keeper couldn't even remember banning him let alone what he'd banned him for 🤣