[Closed] SOME dog owners make me very angry.....

yeah, sure.

Yup - what other person have I affected there?

the kind of response you expect from a speeding motorcyclist giving it beans down twisty mountain roads. it's doing nobody any harm.
until you hit somebody...

TJ, you continually accuse me of misquoting you, or twisting your words, or misrepresenting what you said.

So just for clarity, here is a [b]direct quote[/B] from you.

I haven't changed it any way, it's cut and pasted from this thread.

Just read it

Then have a think about it.

Then explain it ?

[b][quote=TJ]Tandem Jeremy

 ...Prezet - why should I have to accept your dog coming up to me and sniffing me?
I don't like it,
I don't want your dog to do this.
Please acccept your legal responsibilities and control it.

[/b]
Right, have you read it ?

Now explain exactly what you meant by [b]"Legal Responsibility"[/b]

And how does it relate to a dog [b]"coming up to you, and sniffing you"[/b]

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(and I [b]cannot[/b] be "Misquoting" you as it's a direct and full quote. I [b]cannot[/b] be twisting your words as I haven't made any statements, just asked questions about what you said.)

I think that is fairly clear. would you like a dictionary?

Legal obligation. Something you are bound to do and a court can enforce it. It might be criminal or civil. There might be stature or case law. No sensible dog owner would deny they have a legal obligation to keep the dog under control.

If your dog is kept under control it does not go up to people uninvited and therefore sniffing around them.

Simple, straightforward and concise

Now cue another load of hysterical rantings, distortions and denials.

No sensible dog owner would deny they have a legal obligation to keep the dog under control.

Surely this has nothing to do with the sensibility of the dog owner or if in fact a person is a dog owner at all. Either a dog owner has a legal obligation to keep the dog under control or he doesn't. The denial of this is meaningless.

The only issue, assuming the legal obligation, is whether or not a dog which is sniffing a person is out of control, or if you prefer, not under control.

Nice one Charlie 🙂
*tips hat*

If your dog is kept under control it does not go up to people uninvited and therefore sniffing around them.

Said dog has wandered up to TJ and is about to take a sniff, when the victim reaches for his phone to make a formal complaint.

Now, you are twisting his words, it is not the sniffing which is the problem so much as the wandering up.

It's a moot point anyway as my dog had standards...

Now I'm wondering, If i tell my dog to go up to TJ and sniff him, and he obediently does so, surely the dog is under control.

TJ how would you be able to tell if the dog wandering up and sniffing you is doing so under control or not?

It's a mutt point anyway as my dog had standards..

Sorry, just hate seeing waste

Now I'm wondering, If i tell my dog to go up to TJ and sniff him, and he obediently does so, surely the dog is under control.

Legal obligation. Something you are bound to do and a court can enforce it. It might be criminal or civil. There might be stature or case law. No sensible dog owner would deny they have a legal obligation to keep the dog under control.

Both points are true.

And the fact is.

A dog owner has [b]No Legal Obligation Whatsoever[/b] to stop their dog wandering over to you and having a sniff.

Just because you don't want it to. Doesn't make it a "legal obligation"
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Do you disagree with that ??

Sadly for you, TJ-Law only exists in your head 😥
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(I'm sat stroking a sleeping dog as I write this, but I suppose you still think I'm "ranting" 🙄 )

(I'm sat stroking a sleeping dog as I write this, but I suppose you still think I'm "ranting" )

Is that a euphemism?

A dog owner has No Legal Obligation Whatsoever to stop their dog wandering over to you and having a sniff.

Really. so you do not have to keep your dog under control then? 🙄 You have repealed the various animals acts? the kennel club think you do.

Really. so you do not have to keep your dog under control then?

Now you're twisting his words. He didn't say that.

Fascinating. It's like watching the slowest, most boring car crash in the world.

Fascinating. It's like watching the slowest, most boring car crash in the world over and over again.

Even by STW standards, this is quite bad.*
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*(understatement).

[quote=Me]
A dog owner has No Legal Obligation Whatsoever to stop their dog wandering over to you and having a sniff.

[quote=TJ]
Really. so you do not have to keep your dog under control then?
You have repealed the various animals acts?

OK TJ.

Now is your chance............

Prove me wrong.

Which LAW would they be obligated by, to stop there dog wandering over to you and having a sniff.
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(no criticism, or waffle, just the LAW please)

Many thanks.

The tags are particularly unimaginative
some quality rating from Neal tho with creative use of bold which was a minor highlight is a sea of drivel.

some nice comparisons of dogs to children and far fetched claims that dogs have rights and some nice understanding from some dog owners as well.

Oh TJ, that's weak, even by your standards.

Oops -= he is off again. 🙄

Are you really that hard of thinking?

me? Yes, I am, now you can show the law and how it would apply to sniffy dogs

Not you charlie

Can you answer my question then TJ ?

Or can you not find the LAW that relates to the situation you described.

(I did say no waffle, just the relevant law please ?!)

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It's a mystery really because normally you LOVE quoting laws at people, like on the "big man" threads ?!

Actually, this reminds me of a (true) dog-related story. Whilst walking Kasper the lurcher over the fields, I saw a dog in the distance tearing after something. It managed almost a whole field before giving up and returning to its owner. At this point, a nearby dalmation took over and chased the still invisible would-be prey round a field twice, before coming to within 50 yards of Kasper and I.

At this point I could see the object of interest was a large hare. Kasper saw it and took over where the dalmation left off, so really, that (crap but true story is quite like this thread, if you substitute the hare for TJ). The hare was unharmed by the way.

As an aside, can anyone tell me the phrase used to describe a hare crouched down hiding in grass? It's got a rather lovely name, but can't remember it. TIA.

Said dog has wandered up to TJ and is about to take a sniff, when the victim reaches for his phone to make a formal complaint.
How do you think the police would react?
How do you think the courts would react?

No user-removed, neal has the baton firmly clenched here, we're just along for the ride

The reality is.

TJ will never answer the question.

Because to do so will prove him wrong (heaven forbid)

There is no Law that requires dog owners to stop their pets wandering up to people and having a sniff.

TJ will soon deny he ever said there was (again) and accuse me of making it up (again) 🙄

And no doubt accuse me of "Ranting" (again) In an effort to divert attention from his made up laws.

Neal

@re you really this dim? can you read?

Its a mix of differnt statute, and case law. some civil and some criminal. it varies depending where you are .

Some links to some of the more obvious laws.
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/1052

Training

A well trained dog is a happy dog and, he will not be a nuisance to others if he's under control.

Stray dogs

You must keep your dog under control at all times.

http://archive.defra.gov.uk/environment/quality/local/dogs/owner.htm

@re you really this dim? can you read?

I think you should ask this family what they think about dogs sniffing around people

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1314164_toddler_infected_by_playground_dog_mess_could_go_blind

I really hope she recovered and maintained her sight

Also the kennel club again
Do
# Keep your dog under control at all times.
# Train your dog to use the kerb correctly.
# Always clean up after your dog.
# Keep your dog close to you when walking it on a lead.
# Respect the Countryside Code.

Don’ts

* Don’t allow your dog to foul footpaths, parks or public places. Local authorities have the power to make it an offence punishable by a fine. [Dogs (Fouling of Land) Act 1996].
* Don’t allow your dog to interfere with passers-by in the street.

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/205

Yep.

The problem being.

None of it says anything about dogs wandering up to people and generally having a sniff and exploring the area though does it ??

And the kennel club stuff is just general advice ? Nothing legal at all.

The Ski Club of Great Britain says I should wear a Helmet.
But it's not a "Legal Responsibility" is it ?

🙄

Alright.. so after some reading... have we decided that allowing a dog to roam around is out of control?
Whilst it is inhumane to keep the animal in a restricted area?
But it is only out of control if it is infringing on someones thought process?
but not if it's a leopard?
Of which, if domesticated, was created by humans?

Can we get back to a point, gents? it's losing momentum.

P.S.

Keep your dog close to you when walking it on a lead.

Do
# Keep your dog under control at all times. [b]Even when in my enclosed garden or inside the house?[/b]
# Train your dog to use the kerb correctly. [b]Even in the countryside where I live and the nearest kerb is over a mile away?[/b]
# Always clean up after your dog. [b]Even in a field populated by cows, sheep and horses[/b]
# Keep your dog close to you when walking it on a lead.[b]The lead is 1m long!![/b]
# Respect the Countryside Code.[b]Well duh!![/b]

Don’ts

* Don’t allow your dog to foul footpaths, parks or public places. Local authorities have the power to make it an offence punishable by a fine. [Dogs (Fouling of Land) Act 1996]. [b]Sounds reasonable which is why they were avoided. [/b]
* Don’t allow your dog to interfere with passers-by in the street.[b]Interesting as people would cross the street when I came along with my shaved head, tattooes and little on the lead staffy at a distance of 20m+, when is it reasonable to say the dog is posing a threat and when can we say the [i]victim[/i] has overreacted?[/b]

TJ,

I respect you a lot and mostly agree with your stance on this; however, in the broader scheme of things you're demolishing your general credibility here. You're seriously arguing legal issues based on the policies of the Kennel Club?

Always clean up after your dog. Even in a field populated by cows, sheep and horses

yes, toxocanis persists for up to 10 years

Fascinating. It's like watching the slowest, most boring car crash in the world over and over again.

or 2 bald men fighting over a comb?

Have you told the strays?

do you live in eastern europe? not seen a dog without an owner for years around here

Cougar - I have pointed to the law and I thought if the kennel club - that rabidly anti dog organisation - guidance on the law said something then this might be accepted.

they can hardly be accused of an anti dog bias can they 🙂

TJ,
I think it would be more accepted if it didn't backlash everything you were trying to say...

do you live in eastern europe? not seen a dog without an owner for years around here

Are you equally vociferous about cat crap?

yup, personally I think that there should be a program to remove feral cats from the environment and to limit owned cats being sent out to depopulate the small birds and mammals in locale 🙂

the reduction in the UK's carbon footprint and benefits to a number of vulnerable species will be invaluable

you're demolishing your general credibility her

😆

TJ the simple fact is livestock are better protected than you under law. Whilst i agree that morally dogs shouldnt annoy you legally you have to be reasonably fearful of injury before you can resort to the legal process. Now can you either find the legal wording or give up please.

AA - its been explained many times. Its a civil wrong under common law not to have your dog under control. Many different bits of law both statute and case cover it. It varies if you are on open land or on a right of way, in England and is Scotland, on land covered by access rights

You are liable for any damage your dog causes if it it not under control. that is your legal obligation and there is many bits of guidance as to what is considered "under control" and "under close control" This is general and additional to specific legislation which place requirements on dog owners

You like others on here are confusing the criminal offence of dog dangerously out of control with the civil wrong of failing to keep your dog under control.

TJ what is a cival wrong under common law i have no idea. Can you give me some specific laws or examples please? I talking public places not farmland and we are talking about being out of control not causing damage.
Keep wriggling!

Does any of the civil legislation define 'out of control' (like the DDA defines 'dangerously out of control')?

I don't like this thread any more!!
Somebody call my lawyer....

AA - I have done thru this thread - you just don't want to accept it

teh great ape
Its defined by case law and there are accepted definitions which I have posted before.

Enough

Some dog owners make me very, well, astonished really.

One day I was in the park with my dog Sam (dead now, of cancer). He was an exceptionally big lurcher. He was standing next to me, quietly, we were watching some birds on the lake.

A medium sized dog came running towards us, its woman owner puffing and panting along behind it, shouting its name. Medium sized dog totally ignored owner and kept running toward Sam and I, barking and snarling. Woman running and shouting, dog ignoring and advancing on us.

The dog arrived at us. Started dancing round Sam barking and snarling. Sam let out two almighty barks. Woman finally arrives, still cannot capture her dog, shouts at me "YOU SHOULD KEEP YOUR DOG UNDER CONTROL!".

Mental.

It happens a lot with small dogs. My dog is under control (because if it wasn't all hell would break loose - see above - probably the very end of Middle England lol), but small dogs are very often aggressive, they run up to me and my dog barking, snapping and snarling.

The owner invariably find this funny.

I often wonder how funny they would think it was if my dog bit their horrible disobedient f**cking yappy little b8st8rd thing.

😀

[img] [/img]

😀

I often wonder how funny they would think it was if my dog bit their horrible disobedient f**cking yappy little b8st8rd thing.

😆 Solstice Greetings, merry meet

Don - I have answered the questions repeatedly hence the rolling of eyes.

Your example -Its common law - duty of care applies if none of the various specific provisions that apply in certain areas and conditions applied. Damages would be token only tho.

Dogs Act 1871 Section 2:

This is a [u]civil[/u] (not criminal) complaint-although heard at a Magistrates’ Court, it therefore operates on a lower standard of proof - on a balance of probabilities It is important to note that the Act can be applied to both public and private places.

Civil proceedings, commenced by way of complaint, can be taken by the police, local authority or individual members of the public.

A complaint can be made to the Magistrates’ Court that a dog is dangerous, and [u]not kept under proper control[/u]. It is the dog’s owner who is proceeded against (as opposed to someone in charge of the dog at the time).

Is that the civil one you mean? (It's from the endangereddogs.com site you linked to earlier)

Humour me and link back to the specific answers, please? Because I'm buggered if I can see them.

AA - I have done thru this thread - you just don't want to accept it

I still dont see it.

Livestock ..... check
Wildlife ..... check
Dangerously out of control...... check
Causing damage ..... check
Raiding picnics, sniffing.... nope

"Tis the season to be jolly,
Tra la la la la, la la la laaa"

Come on everyone, this one has passed its best before date. We're all in general agreement and now just arguing about petty and inane points. There's enough of this drivel already on STW.

What are you all getting for Christmas?? 😀

Karinofnine... was out walking today and some bloody snappy, growling collie decided to chase my Lurcher, she thought it was funny. You do have to wonder if she'd have thought that if Kea decided to stop bite back. People are ****in idiots, most of them should be kept on leads and certainly not allowed to own dogs.

14 ****ing pages ........... and TJ still doesn't get that having the last word doesn't mean you are right.

Why don't we just accept he is narcissistic megalomaniac with delusions of grandeur and let this thread die!

let this thread die!

Silver bullet?
Stake through the heart?
Cut the cables at a certain someone's telephone exchange?

This might work

[img] [/img]

But I wouldn't bet on it

In other news, check this out disposable camera tazer project: http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-build-a-Taser-for-free-1/?ALLSTEPS

Can you see what I've done there? Please stop now! Direct your energies towards something useful like world peace. On second thoughts, don't, you'll have pacifists ripping each others throats out.

i think the problem is that most folks don't see that a dog sniffing someone is one which is not under control.

On another note, if I used this on TJ would that be assault? 😉

[img] [/img]

http://www.ladyada.net/make/bedazzler/index.html

i think the problem is that most folks don't see that a dog sniffing someone is one which is not under control.

I don't think anybody has said that have they Charlie? It would have been discussed by now.

I don't think anybody has said that have they Charlie? It would have been discussed by now.

No one in there right mind you consider a sniffing dog to be out of control, so it I doubt anyone with half a brain would be stupid enough to say that.

Dont they eat dogs somewhere, that may sort the problem out.

Careful .... that sounds racist

I did say we'd get to 14 pages didn't I.... 😀

Dont they eat dogs somewhere, that may sort the problem out.

Yep, Lancashire

Tiger6791 - Member

Dont they eat dogs somewhere, that may sort the problem out.

Yep, Lancashire

yep none roaming around near the Hollands factory 😉

[img] [/img]

Good effort TJ, but let these people go back to their lives now, OK?

If only he was trolling ..... as I don't think he is, that's actually his real opinion; as crazy as that sounds

Is that it?