You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
gobuchal thats really quite common to be restrained until the person calms down
Why would you restrain someone, on a public street, who wasn't physically aggressive?
( I have worked alongside the police treating detainees that have been arrested)
But this person wasn't arrested. As she hadn't done anything to justify it.
Gopbuchal - we do not know what happened in this case. The cops would not restrain someone who was not aggressive. It really is astonishing how some folk behave towards cops. They seem to think a cop cannot lay hands on or give instructions to leave an area
But something like I outline below happens a dozen times a night in every city in the UK
People are often restrained until they calm down. Yes they could be arrested but given the shortfall in cops on the street and that arresting someone is going to take two of them off the street for 2 hours they prefer to not arrest if they can
Police " go away, you are drunk and being a pain"
Drunk " you cannot tell me what to do"
Cop " yes I can - go away" pushes / guides drunk in direction of away
Drunk shouting " get your hands off me, you cannot touch me" pushes cop
Cops then grab them and restrain them standing. Person either calms down and apologies or kicks off if they kick off they will be taken to the ground and restrained on the ground.
Drunk then calms down and is released or continues to kick off and is arrested
the injuries this woman sustained are IMO and from the very limited info we have entirely consistent with being restrained and completely inconsistent to being beaten up
I have seen entirely respectable professional people behave like this and they are mortified when they wake up sober in a police cell. For every one that ends up in a cell several more will be sent on their way with a warning
As I said in the first place, what TJ is describing is exactly what happens if the handy-cam police TV shows are to be believed as representative. (Whether they actually are or not is another matter.)
I heavily doubt that in today's World of targets and KPI's for the Police, they would turn down an opportunity to arrest for Assaulting a Police Officer. Where they have overwhelming evidence and it would make an easy conviction.
As I said in the first place, what TJ is describing is exactly what happens if the handy-cam police TV shows are to be believed as representative. (Whether they actually are or not is another matter.)
I doubt they will be, however, I might just be being cynical.
As I said in the first place, what TJ is describing is exactly what happens if the handy-cam police TV shows are to be believed as representative. (Whether they actually are or not is another matter.)
I quite honestly can't see why ANYONE would think handy-cam police TV shows MIGHT be believed as representative...
The IPCC sought court injunctions to prevent video footage being published .
No officers came forwards until AFTER the guardian released footage and all the helmet cams and CCTV was mysteriously lost..
(read the whole article)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Ian_Tomlinson
The cops would not restrain someone who was not aggressive.
They just attack them from behind with a baton?
I heavily doubt that in today’s World of targets and KPI’s for the Police, they would turn down an opportunity to arrest for Assaulting a Police Officer. Where they have overwhelming evidence and it would make an easy conviction.
Well you would be wrong on that. Take Edinburgh where I worked as an example. There will only be around 6 officers on duty for the city. Arresting someone takes two of them out of circulation for at least 2 hours. If they can get an agressive drunk out of the way tor to go home rather than arrest them they do so. There is only a limited number of cells available in the city. Arrest more than that they they have to take them to cells n other areas - taking officers off the street for even longer.
the restrain is often used to prevent the assault on a police officer
Edit - so if they arrest the first 3 drunk and disorderly they can find by midnight there is not a single cop left in the city to deal with anything else
On the police camera action shows - The edinburgh cops where I worked were shown on one of them I watched -= they behaved exactly the same on the show as they did when I saw them. For sure I never saw everything but in the time I worked with them I never once saw any evidence of police being over the top. Even the middleaged woman whos arm got broken as the police restrained her was understandable given how she behaved when I saw her 3 hours later. I couldn't examine her because she kept trying to attack me despite what was a broken arm
Having said that I know the Edinburgh cops have a very different reputation to the Met
Okay. I send a FB message to a retired PC I know very well.
His answers was that in domestics its usually calm the situation down. On the street where someone is getting aggressive towards a Police Officer, "they will probably get lifted."
So if she had been aggressive, in his experience, she would probably of been arrested.
TJ - you are looking at quite different scenarios from what the OP posted. Nobody is suggesting that they would get arrested for D&D.
No I am not gobuchal and IME leary drunks are not always arrested =even if they have been restrained at some point simply because of the removal of cops from the street that ensues
YOu get restrained if you are drunk and disorderly to prevent an assault on a police officer. If you then calm down you get sent on your way. If you don't yo get arrested.
Just to emphasise again we do not know what happened here. YOu cannot know if she was restrained because she assaulted an officer or to prevent an assault on an officer or indeed if the cops for some reason assaulted an innocent woman
From what I have seen and know on the balance of probabilities my guess would be she interrupted something they were doing like surveillance, got angry when told to go away, was restrained, calmed down and was sent on her way.
BUT WE DO NOT KNOW - ITS ALL IDLE SPECULATION
Err - only six officers on duty for all of Edinburgh ??
I have seen more than that breaking up a pub fight in Victoria st.
Err – only six officers on duty for all of Edinburgh ??
All those other coppers you see going about are actually Fringe street performances.
hels
Member
Err – only six officers on duty for all of Edinburgh ??
In the absence of #jambafacts, I think this might be #tjfacts
Nobody is suggesting that they would get arrested for D&D.
... which is exactly what I've been trying to say all along.
Thats what they told me when I worked there - thats the number actually out on the street. I never counted them and it seems unlikely but thats what they told me, city centre
@ Roter Stern
...so has it been logged yet? This case needs full disclosure
5 pages of hypothetical weeing on police shoes, it needs to move on!
Maybe they meant from their shift rota TJ. I think to say that only six are on duty across Edinburgh has a be a non-fact.
BUT WE DO NOT KNOW – ITS ALL IDLE SPECULATION
Bore off with the shouting.
Although I guess it may have been strippers breaking up that street brawl !
Thinking about it it maybe was patrol officers operating out of st lenards. so there would be more at Westerhailes etc and specialist groups like armed response etc.
Still the substantive point remains the same - with small numbers of officers on the street arresting someone takes them out of circulation for a while so they try not to arrest for minor offenses like D&D
Just to emphasise again we do not know what happened here
Shame a few of you couldn't have just agreed that on the first page, it would have saved another 4 pages of the usual shite 🙄
@ Roter Stern
…so has it been logged yet? This case needs full disclosure
5 pages of hypothetical weeing on police shoes, it needs to move on!As I posted earlier she has deleted the post and I am afraid I’m not going to message her to find out the details just so a bunch of computer programmers on an Internet forum can get closure on their whataboutery. 😉
Shame a few of you couldn’t have just agreed that on the first page, it would have saved another 4 pages of the usual shite
Pfft with that sort of sensible attitude STW would be a 1 thread per week ghost town
MarkBrewer is this your first time using the internet ?
I heavily doubt that in today’s World of targets and KPI’s for the Police, they would turn down an opportunity to arrest for Assaulting a Police Officer. Where they have overwhelming evidence and it would make an easy
I worked at night in Cardiff city centre for many years, and it's as TJ describes. A fight breaks out, police arrive and will try and arrest the combatants, mouthy bystanders are told to move on and often physically pushed on their way. And yes people are grappled to the floor but allowed to leave without arrest. There seems to be a line that crossing gets you arrested. I will admit that line seems a bit fluid depending on the time of night how busy the police are and yes the mood and attitude of the police officer.
Pfft with that sort of sensible attitude STW would be a 1 thread per week ghost town
Sorry, I forgot that!
I reckon people post these topics knowing full well what will happen, then sit back and watch the entertainment. It could be turned into a new sport, STW er baiting 🤔 If you can call sitting on a turbo trainer a sport these days I think it's got a chance!