[Closed] Somail Pirates, what should we do about them?

Wouldnt it be cheaper for all the shipping companies to get together and 'fund' some sort of mercenary group who protect the ships. Then when they start attacking one of the ships they just return fire and send em packing. Surely a couple of ransom payments would fund a hell of an army. Have them on board rather than waiting for them to attack. Would soon send a message out.

Oh and there should be 100% rule. Never ever capture a pirate. Every single one of them should be killed. Its the only way to negotiate with them. Thats why i applaud britain in their dealings in these matters. You cannot and must not ever pay the ransom otherwise you are condoning and prolonging others suffering.

The value of the ships is huge compared with the size of ransoms paid. If ships start getting sunk due to battles with pirates, the insurance costs will go through the roof.

The A team?

I'd Stick them in a bag and beat them senseless.
Stick them in a bag and beat them senseless.
Stick them in a bag and beat them senseless.
Early in the morning.

Don't the pirates have rocket launchers and things? I only know this because when they were parading that British couple of tv one of them strangely had the rocket launcher pointing at the womans head. You'd have to have a fairly well equipped set of mercenaries to deal with that sort of threat.

Britain should have issued a counter threat to those ones holding the couple IMO. 'We do not pay ransoms but be rest assured if you do not return them safely you will be getting rather a large number of gunboats up the kaiber. It's your choice lads.'

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and of course

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You have to find them first.

They are using very small, fast boats in an area of ocean of thousands of square miles.
Lots of vessels move through there every day, most get through unscathed. The logistics of having every single vessel crewed-up with trained fighters would be immense, & the alternative of arming the regular crews with big enough weapons to destroy a small attack-boat is scary!

The various military vessels out there should be given the leeway to destroy on sight pirate boats but first they have to find and identify them - and THAT is the problem. As soon as the first boat is pro-actively destroyed there will be claims it was an un-armed fishing boat etc.
Unless they can catch them in tha act that is, then they usually cannot open fire because the target vessel will be in range as well and innocent crews could die.

samuri - considering the amounts involved i would imagine they could afford a "fairly well equipped set of mercenaries to deal with that sort of threat."

The A team sounds good.

[i]The logistics of having every single vessel crewed-up with trained fighters would be immense[/i]

Is it in comparrison to the payouts made? Lives lost?

Personally i like the idea of a Q-ship to combat them.

Build/convert a merchant vessel into a ship of war with powerful engines and lots of hidden weapons systems. Send it into the area to stooge up & down the coast til it attracts attention then kill whoever attacks.

Change the superstructure, paintjob & flag then start again.

The Imperial German Navy used this tactic very well in WWI & the RN did it in WWII.

Only problem i can see is 'plausible deniability' in that no Maritime Power will be able to admit to using these vessels.

Hobo - you're talking about hundreds of ships, thousands of mercenaries for weeks/months at a time. Those boys don't come cheap.

If the ship owners thought it was a financially sound idea they would have already done it.

Perhaps the piracy is not the main issue? Perhaps if more is done to help the area in general piracy would cease to be an issue?

Personally if I had no money, no food and no prospects but a fast boat and access to weaponry I doubt I would make a difference choice than the pirates...

why not just organise all the merchant ships into convoys with a group of protecting warships around them? Insurance rates for ships protected like this shoudl drop and the shippers coudl be charged for the protection?

I like the stuff on wikipedia talking about the local towns that have been turned into boomtowns by the pirates investement in booze and drugs.

This is all the pirates. No eye patches, no parrots and no wooden legs. Really, they've got no idea at all have they?

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I think perhaps an elite team of 'STW Internet Hard Men' comprising the nation's butchest middle-aged IT Project Managers should be sent out to patrol the waters off Somalia.

One of the concerns of the local peoples is that - because of the lack of Govt in Somalia - large foreign factory ships have been plundering the seas around the horn of Africa with impunity.
The seas are now effectively empty and the local fishermen are going broke/hungry. They had the boats, they had the guns and they saw rich Western ships on the horizon...

Samuri - I thought they looked like this?
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I think perhaps an elite team of 'STW Internet Hard Men' comprising the nation's butchest middle-aged IT Project Managers should be sent out to patrol the waters off Somalia.

That won't work, as the pirates don't seem to have any shoes to be wee'ed in.

Thats why i applaud britain in their dealings in these matters. You cannot and must not ever pay the ransom otherwise you are condoning and prolonging others suffering.

Do you applaud the british military ship that stood by while pirates took [url= http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/29/british-couple-possibly-k_n_338121.html ]Paul and Rachel Chandler [/url] hostage?

The initial news report was that the boat was missing. They allegedly spent two day looking for the craft according to the news put out by whoever decides what we get to hear. Do you applaud that?

So, our authorities allowed the kidnap to happen, but worse than this, they covered up what really happened. Now the couple face an uncertain future no thanks to the "applauded" British dealings in these matters!

I expect this will go the same way for the Chandlers as it did for that British man in China this morning.

[i]Perhaps the piracy is not the main issue? Perhaps if more is done to help the area in general piracy would cease to be an issue?

Personally if I had no money, no food and no prospects but a fast boat and access to weaponry I doubt I would make a difference choice than the pirates... [/i]

from what I can tell, it's all our own fault. Apparently europeans and asians are over-fishing the area which is why the Somalians took up arms in the first place.

The job has to be done on the ground, in Somalia - send in Black Hawk.

Ohh, eerr, maybe not actually.

Apparently europeans and asians are over-fishing the area which is why the Somalians took up arms in the first place.

As muddydwarf says, it's a busy shipping lane. Most ships using it pass through without problems. Of the few that get attacked there are very few casualties. If it was more economical to arm the ships than pay the odd ransom it would be done already.

I'm not very sure that any form of deterrence would work brilliantly. Somalia is one of the poorest and most screwed up places on the planet. Life expectancy is dire, heavy weapons are common, violence is endemic, it's economy hardly functions at all and its fishing stocks are being seriously depleted by fleets from other countries. It isn't as if you just have to make piracy slightly more dangerous than running a bed and breakfast to get these guys to stop. The rewards are enormous compared to almost anything that they could possibly do with their time. Depending on how long-term you're thinking, it might almost be cheaper to try to establish a viable government and an economy in the region and elevate the people out of their almost unimaginable poverty than it would be to kill them in novel ways when they commit acts of piracy.

I guess it's a pity there's no oil worth nicking in Somalia. If there was the Americans would send lots of men with guns there, set up a puppet government and establish some sort of order and industry.

dmiller - Member

Perhaps the piracy is not the main issue? Perhaps if more is done to help the area in general piracy would cease to be an issue?

Personally if I had no money, no food and no prospects but a fast boat and access to weaponry I doubt I would make a difference choice than the pirates...

A wet liberal Guardian reader comment!

So these African authorities haven't had a penny of aid from the developed world that was all spunked away on limousines, expensive luxury goods etc? How many times will we write off debt to these countries who's corrupt authorities do nothing to help sort out their own nation's problems?

Spongebob - In what way did they stand by and let it happen. Were they watching it happen at the time?

Yes i applaud the fact that at no time have we paid a single penny to these criminals regardless of the blackmail they threaten. Lets put it this way. If you were a pirate and you saw a boat with a british flag on it, would you be put off by the fact that we have a zero tolerance for paying the bounty. If there is no chance of getting the bounty then whats the point. They move on to the next boat that isnt from britain

its Politics more than anything that complicates this issue.
The ships patrolling the area to stop pirats have caught more of them in the act, but due to no country beeing willing to prosecute them, they where set free, without their boat and weapons.

The Navy ships have forced the pirats further out to sea, they where somehow succefull, but now that the pirats are further out, the area they need to cover is suddenly much bigger.
They are surveying a number of bigger "motherships" but due to their rules of engagment cant do anything unless they catch them while attempting to borde a ship.

As said this will only be stoped fully the day they solve the problems on land which is causing these people to become pirats.

The various military vessels out there should be given the leeway to destroy on sight pirate boats but first they have to find and identify them - and THAT is the problem.

When the Chandlers' were boarded and kidnapped there was a British military vessel standing by, and they stood by and watched the kidnapping. Apparently it was too risky or they were "not allowed".

So now we have rules that say we cant protect our own from pirates. The world has gone mad.

A military vessel classes a bunch of tooled up somalian fishermen "too risky". Ohh god.

Fair point then spongebob. We are no better than the pirates

It may have been considered too risky for the Chandlers rather than the navy.

A wet liberal Guardian reader comment!

So these African authorities haven't had a penny of aid from the developed world that was all spunked away on limousines, expensive luxury goods etc? How many times will we write off debt to these countries who's corrupt authorities do nothing to help sort out their own nation's problems?

As many times as we can afford to I would guess. The only other option is to leave people to die - in all honestly would you prefer that?

I don't think that we target the aid correctly, I think that we should also be doing more in regards to education etc, but then I'm certain that those in charge of giving the aid know what they are doing. Perhaps a certain amount of aid needs to be wasted on the corrupt to get the rest through to those that need it. Perhaps thats all that gets reported? Perhaps we dont know half the story? Given enough time and help Africa can sort it outself out. Africans may be poor but they sure as f*ck are not stupid.

The other option is to wade in and force a government on them. After all that worked well in Iraq and Afghanistan didn't it?

David.

A military vessel classes a bunch of tooled up somalian fishermen "too risky". Ohh god.

Or - wading in guns up might have got more people killed and it was decided that diplomacy might save more lives in the long run.

Personally I quite like that our military often chooses to not shoot first and see what happens. Contrast that with the US military...

A wet liberal Guardian reader comment!

As a matter of interest what happens if we start randomly sinking ships because they're not flying a flag so must be pirates, then someone bigger than us, say China, or even some bunch of nutters like Iran who may well have nuclear capability, tell us to stop? We back down? or risk another war when we're already over stretched in making a complete ar5e of Iraq and Afghanistan?

Or - wading in guns up might have got more people killed and it was decided that diplomacy might save more lives in the long run.

.......there should be 100% rule. Never ever capture a pirate. Every single one of them should be killed.

Just out of interest - why would that work ? Is there maybe reliable evidence which suggests that Somali pirates are all cowards who are not prepared to take the risk of dying ? Bearing in mind that very few have ever been captured.

The only real solution to piracy in the region, is probably social justice. However, this is unlikely to be a realistic proposition. And therefore rich countries will continue to plunder the seas for it's natural resources with hi tech equipment, whilst Somali fishermen help themselves to the rich pickings from the passing merchant ships of wealthy nations.

A military vessel classes a bunch of tooled up somalian fishermen "too risky". Ohh god.

RFA Argus. a hospital/supply ship, not particulary well armed or equipped to deal with that kind of situation.

sure they could have opened fire with 20mm guns or GPMG's but then there wouldnt have been any pirates or any hostages....

I like the stuff on wikipedia talking about the local towns that have been turned into boomtowns by the pirates investement in booze and drugs.

This is all the pirates. No eye patches, no parrots and no wooden legs. Really, they've got no idea at all have they?

That pic actually looks like a Somalian gay internet meet site

[i]That pic actually looks like a Somalian gay internet meet site [/i]

You're well acquainted with Somalian gay internet dating are you Hora? 😉

Wow crazy-legs, thats a fine rocket launcher that you've got there

How about using decoys, during the war they used something called "Q" ships
Basically what seemed to be a tramp steamer was actually a heavily armed gunboat. They had guns hidden behind what seemed to be cargo and once the raiders were drawn in, blew the crap out of them

nuke them from space, its the only way to be sure....

paul

Or:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_note

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?

The problem with the Navy involvement is that when they do find them they cannot open fire on them.

I say give our Military a fighting chance and ditch some of these ridiculous rules of engagement.

As in the Falklands, send in the Subs and Feirless's Harriers 😉

Apparently they had armed special forces ready to go and desk jockeys in Whitehall vetoed it twice, forcing the Navy ship to sit on their hands while the Chandlers were taken off their yacht. As far as shipping not sailing close to the pirates, as one poster suggested, that's kinda tricky when the pirates are operating as far away as India using stolen motherships loaded with weapons carrying the fast launches. That means not using the entire Indian Ocean; hardly practical.

I say give our Military a fighting chance and ditch some of these ridiculous rules of engagement.

Totally - after all they are like those daft civil rights laws...

Also if they are taking hostages, but not harming them and negotiating for money, is that not a civil police matter between our police / goverment and thier police / goverment rather than an armed forces matter?

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Is there another route the ship could take an avoid going through the waters patrolled by the pirates. It may cost more in time & fuel but result in less risk and hostages.

Well once all the ice in the Artic has melted, all
shipping can go via the North West Passage.

Fantastic idea. They could star in a Musical,

The Pirates from Somalia.

We could make it really camp with lots of cross-dressing etc? 😀

The talk like a somalian day should be good for a laugh.

Might upset the pc brigade a bit though, probably not best tried if you are a council worker, teacher etc

'Round them up, put them in a field, and.......'

Kenny Everett afficionadoes complete at your leisure.

not best tried if you are a council worker

Too late 😆

I get in trouble all the time for saying how we should deal with them in my office.

Be interesting what a .50cal would do to a RIB full of Pirates!

I don't think bombers is a good idea when that guy is grinning with a rocket launcher!

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[url= http://www.weebls-stuff.com/toons/Somalia/ ]YAAAAAAAAAAAARGH![/url]

Shipping companies should have their own "security" through pirate infested waters.
Got to be cheaper than giving those a-holes any cash.

WTF - Member
Shipping companies should have their own "security" through pirate infested waters.
Got to be cheaper than giving those a-holes any cash.

I think that's the point. It isn't.

i think they cant do anything about it for the same reasons the police cant go around smashing peoples faces in.

like in batman: criminals thrive on the tolerences of society, or something...

if it wasnt a "human rights" problem, i think owners of ships would have no problems with mounting some 50cals onto the corners of the ships?

if it wasnt a "human rights" problem, i think owners of ships would have no problems with mounting some 50cals onto the corners of the ships?

So it's got nothing to do with international law and armed vessels entering ports then ?
It's about "human rights problems" ?

How strange 😕

As they seem to know where the ports these pirates operate from the shipping companies along with NATO should get some special forces guys to put tracking devices on all the boats so they can keep an eye on them, then blow the ****ers out of the water if they attack a ship!

Sounds like a job for 007 flippinheckler

I know almost precisely nothing about merchant seafaring, but this [url= http://www.imo.org/dynamic/mainframe.asp?topic_id=1833 ]International Maritime Organisation Guidance[/url] is interesting. This, and other IMO papers read this evening, are very, very against arming ships or carrying personal weapons and suggest that actually preparedness and a willingness to take prompt evasive action are pretty handy in preventing attacks.

I bet they don't join in International Talk Like A Pirate Day in September either.

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