You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Sold a 13 yo car yesterday (mum's Aunt's old car, she has dementia). Its in very good nick with only 24k on the clock.
The buyer viewed the car tuesday night in the dark, put it in mums garage to get a better look under the light.
Paid for it last night and went away happy.
This morning I get a message from him saying there's a massive scrape along the length of the car and the car was perfect when he looked at it tuesday night. He then implies that due to my mum's unfamiliarity with auto cars that she damaged the car when she took it out of the garage. 😈 Also he had said that unless this can be resolved he will take legal action.
Im waiting for pictures from him to confirm, but im pretty sure he's referring to a crease in the door / wing that was already there well before he looked at it.
My reckoning is that he didnt spot it (twice) in the dark and is now trying it on to get a reduction on the sale price.
He has a letter of sale from mum (which he has signed) stating "The vehicle is sold as seen with no guaranteed expressed or implied.". I have photos taken in Jan which show the mark quite clearly.
So the question is here, what do I do and where do I stand?
In my mind I have the phrase "buyer beware", doe the fact that he has paid for the car and signed a letter accepting the car as it is cover my ass?
Your thoughts please.
buyer beware I'm afraid. Tell him to bring his legal action...
No comeback on a "private to private" sale.
He should of viewed in daylight or used a 3rd party such as the AA/RAC.
Sold as seen. He has no legal comeback.
Sit tight - you'll be fine. Unless of course he has absolute proof of deliberate deception (which he clearly hasnt). And, he could of left a deposit and collected it in the daylight. His choice to take the car.
yep private sale , tell him to get bent !
I would think you're safe but I would have made a point of mentioning it were I selling it. It may be buyer beware but honesty goes a long way. A simple "you need to be aware of this here fold" would have avoided this...IMO of course.
"jog on mate" is a phrase that springs to mind..
(remembers when I traded in my Civic Type R, which had a little graze down the side. Left it at the garage on multiple occasions whilst I test drove their cars, so you can see why I ignored the look of surprise and close focus from the salesman when I finally dropped it off!)
DrP
His problem. Sold as seen. If he's not prepared to view it in daylight, tough luck.
perhaps invoice him for the educational class in why you should never buy a car in the dark unless you are willing to accept what you can't see...
If it was on there when he collected it I'd assume that was also when the cash was handed over. If you have a signed agreement stating sold as seen then it sounds like he's just trying it on.
You have proof that the 'crease' existed when he viewed the vehicle.
You've not tried to conceal it from prospective buyers.
They knowingly bought 'sold as seen'.
Therefore, no longer your responsibility.
He's just trying it on because he's pee'd off at not spotting it before buying the car.
Buyer Beware.
Private sale = Caveat emptor = no comeback what so ever = Jog On
Its the risk when you buy from a private seller, you can get a bargain, but you take the risk. He has now learnt a valuable lesson on buying private and not viewing in daylight.
(also what proof can he give you that he hasn't done it since he bought the car :))
Thanks for the reassurance peeps.
Can't believe EVERYONE is in agreement. Where's GW when you need him?? 😆
He paid deposit on Tues night and was going to collect and pay balance on sat. He chose to do it last night instead.
If he looked at it closely he should have seen it.
Pah - report it stolen and keep his money
lol @ DrRS****!
Pretty much everything else about the car is mint, it drives really well and feels nice and tight. Engine is sweet as. I'd have had it happily if it wasnt an auto. Ergh
I don't think it's the private sale that is important, it's the fact that he had a good chance to inspect the car, it's not a latent defect.
DrRS**** - MemberPah - report it stolen and keep his money
LOL
What a **** - like when he sells the car on, which is probably in the next five minutes, he won't try and conceal it. Have you checked for it on auto trader yet ?? That would explain the sudden collection, he has already listed it and has a buyer lined up.
Unless you told him the bodywork was in good (more than good!) bodywork, he's stuck with it. Do nothing unless you get death threats or court papers.
Cheque/cash banked, I hope.
A good reason to not buy...or sell...a car in the dark.
He should have remembered:
caveat emptor
as otherwise:
stercus accidit
You, however, are in the clear.
If you have the evidence just send him the picture - gets all the hassle over with ASAP. Oh and buyer beware.
Just out of interest, without Googling, what do all the people saying "caveat emptor" or "buyer beware" think it actually means?
Ask him to send you a photo of the damage. Then send your photo back to him.
Sold as seen is not very useful on these dark evenings.
It means 'you pays your money, you takes your chance'.
All clear now?
konabunny - my understanding is that caveat emptor, is basically buyer beware, that unless the seller has deliberatly concealed a fault or problem with a product whilst selling it is not their responsibility to put it right.....might be wrong but that's my understanding.
Buying from a business is entirely different I believe!
ps. you might have guess I am not a lawyer, but have sold a fair few cheap secondhand cars...... 😀
or "when involved in a transaction which will cost you money, use a little common sense"
And I'm sure that it probably has no basis in law, but neither does looking both ways when you cross the road and it's a good idea to do it.
Tell him you'll scrape his face off your fist.
The ball is currently in his court. Have asked for a picture of the damage from him before I say anything else.
Then send your photo back to him.
Assuming he can prove when the photograph was taken...
But I do think the buyer should sling his hook.
btw - worth checking
boy at my mums work bought a duff car which had Headgasket failure.
guy didnt give him a refund and told him to jog on ....
the next day the guy appeared with a broken leg - do remember he knows where you or you mother live.....
although the chap was notorious and very well connected in my home town, i only had the misfortune of coming against him once after i testified in court against him
RE - PICTURE
Well, whichever way it goes you have him stitched up
No pic = Sling yer hook
Pic of damage same as your pic? "Already there, your fault" = Sling yer hook
Pic of damage DIFFERENT to your pic? "Wasn't there when I took this pic, your fault" = Sling yer hook
😛
Did he get a good deal or did he pay over the odds for a car with a scrape on it?
RE - PICTUREWell, whichever way it goes you have him stitched up
No pic = Sling yer hook
Pic of damage same as your pic? "Already there, your fault" = Sling yer hook
Pic of damage DIFFERENT to your pic? "Wasn't there when I took this pic, your fault" = Sling yer hook
so sling yer hook then 😉
Well I'd say he got a reasonable deal, but im hardy impartial am I?
He did his homework on the cars market value. Its only a good deal to the buyer, he got £200 off the asking price.
PP Are you joking when you said "stitched up"? Just making sure as humour can get lost in tinterweb and I dont want to get lairy with you yet, until im sure.
Did he get a good deal or did he pay over the odds for a car with a scrape on it?
I'd expect to pay a premium for a 13 year old car with 24k miles on the clock.
Yup!
PP get to Falkirk! 😆
pay a premium for a 13 year old car with 24k miles on the clock.
why ? its likely to be in no better condition than a 13 year old car with 130k on the clock ....... long as its been serviced and loved of course
time and treatment kills cars not milage
I'd expect to pay a premium for a 13 year old car with 24k miles on the clock.
Whereas I wouldn't go anywhere near a 13 year old car with 24k on it. It will have sat most of it's life siezing up, it's probably not been serviced anywhere near often enough, and it'll only have ever done very short journeys so it'll be coked up with an engine full of mayonnaise.
Been there, done that.
PP Are you joking when you said "stitched up"?
Yes, it was meant in jest, wrong choice of words I guess. 🙂
I've been on both sides of this argument, and there's is bugger all you can do about it. 🙁
If it's a cosmetic fault which is in plain sight to anyone with eyes, it doesn't really matter whether it's a private sale or not.
If you bought a car from a dealer but only bothered to look at one side of the car before you signed the papers, you wouldn't have much comeback if you got home and found a dent on the side you didn't look at.
😆Pah - report it stolen and keep his money
Well I'd say he got a reasonable deal, but im hardy impartial am I?
He did his homework on the cars market value. Its only a good deal to the buyer, he got £200 off the asking price.
The line I was taking is that although you are clearly in the right legally, if you feel he paid over the odds you might want to consider a discretionary payment just to be nice.
Sounds like he's going the wrong way about it by blaming your mum's driving rather than admitting he didn't notice the scrape though.
Oh, my YUP! was in reply to Ski's question 🙂
...be coked up with an engine full of mayonnaise...
Sounds like one of your wild house parties, PP...!!
DrP
LOL!
It's when the oil never gets hot enough to burn off the condensation in the engine. Oil then mixes with water and forms what looks like mayo which coats all the internals, worse under the rocker cover. The only way to stop it is to get the engine hot regularly and change the oil minimum once a year. This is why people who only do 2 miles to the shops and back once a week and think it's not necessary to service a car that only does 2000 miles a year, are sellers I now avoid like the plague!
I'd rather have 100,000 in 4 years than 25,000 in 10.......
gotta agree, tell him to sling it, he bought a cheap 2nd hand car & for all you know he did it himself, not your mum getting it of the garage.
The car had a regular dealer service EVERY year, which was probably excessive, but the oil seemed fine and youghurt free in the filler cap.
**UPDATE**
He's just text me apologising for the tone of his previous text and said "i should have looked at in the daylight, either way the car drives well, not worth falling out over".
So pitch forks and knuckle sandwiches are stood down.
I just hope he doesnt dicover the sawdust in the gearbox. 😉
well done him.
It will have sat most of it's life siezing up, it's probably not been serviced anywhere near often enough, and it'll only have ever done very short journeys so it'll be coked up with an engine full of mayonnaise.
Mmmm.. Fair point. Never thought of that.
Bought a 10 year old car with 18k miles. Runs sweet as......
I just hope he doesnt dicover the sawdust in the gearbox.
Heavy duty black bin liners work better than sawdust.........
how many miles does it have now though
I've had several old, low-mileage cars that have been wonderful and given many thousands of miles of trouble-free motoring, just to balance things.
Agreed, he has no comeback...however, I think it's a but rum not to point out and significant defects to the buyer if you are aware of them.
however, I think it's a but rum not to point out and significant defects to the buyer if you are aware of them.
Perhaps if not visible defects but if someone can't even look properly then it is their own hard luck I say.
I bought a six year old motorcycle with 5000 miles on it 0 it wasn't even run in. It consumed oil until I thrashed the spuds off it for a few thousand miles
out of interest, did he seem a decent genuine fella, and are you a good judge of character?
could it perhaps be possible that your mum did scrape it?
if the damage is now worse in his pic compared to yours, I dont see how that would strengthen your case. You mum could have scraped it after you took your pic.
anyways, seems like he's done the right thing and accepted it.
He seemed a decent enough chap. Given he's not sent a picture, I think he's looked at it a little more closely and realised its not a recent bit of marking.
The only place mum could have scraped it, would have been taking it out of the garage and to do that sort of damage I would think the wing mirror would have been more than a little "readjusted" as a result!
Whereas I wouldn't go anywhere near a 13 year old car with 24k on it. It will have sat most of it's life siezing up, it's probably not been serviced anywhere near often enough, and it'll only have ever done very short journeys so it'll be coked up with an engine full of mayonnaise.
Indeed, I can confirm that unless the car was garaged in a nice warm cosy garage and serviced regularly in it's long, bored years it will probably have more issues than one used daily. Brakes rust up, bearings get damp in them and have time to corrode, condensation gets into the oil and leads to issues, rubbers seem to die faster oddly, never figured that out.
Funnily enough the wiper blades always seem to die quicker if they aren't used, compared to those that are. Why is that?
I bought a six year old motorcycle with 5000 miles on it 0 it wasn't even run in. It consumed oil until I thrashed the spuds off it for a few thousand miles
BMW? They all do that, sir.
Honest, they do apperently. 🙂