[Closed] Social mobility- Condem style

Poor you say ?

They bally not better end up near me.

Seems sensible, thinking about it. Why would you choose to live in the most expensive place in the country, if you didn't work there?

Scraping up all the Southern poor people and dumping them in the most deprived areas of the North does seem to be fairly typical of this government though. "I know, they can go and live amongst their own kind. More port, David?"

I've seen the future and it looks like the mid 1700s.

The Labour-run authority

They did a trial two years ago, some went out to Hertfordshire and.. Hated it.

Seems sensible, thinking about it. Why would you choose to live in the most expensive place in the country, if you didn't work there?

The Labour-run authority

Seems as if your a camden resident,and claiming housing benefit theyre going to export you to cheaper parts of the uk

Explain the difference to the people who have jobs who don't qualify for housing benefit who can't afford to live in Camden either. Have they been "exported"

economic apartheid --- another huge backward step in social cohesion, when rioting erupts later this year, don't expect it to be short lived or unfocused...

Have they been "exported"

Did they choose to move or did the state relocate them to another area?

when rioting erupts later this year, don't expect it to be short lived or unfocused...

Was that intended to sound like a threat ? 😕

There are many reasons to stay in the place you call home I would have thought.

I wasn't being entirely serious, you know (-:

Not quite the truth is it OP? Fact is, if your clamping maximum benefit for the housing (IIRC, £350) and the housing cost more and you can't make up the difference, you'd be moved.

However there is some clause that allows you to stay if you work minimum 16 hours a week at minimum wage you can stay - I don't understand the properly to comment further.

So the line is - if you can't afford it, your out. And the problem with that reality check is what exactly?

So the line is - if you can't afford it, your out. And the problem with that reality check is what exactly?

Social cleansing for a start, but I suspect that doesn't bother you. Then it's where you dump them. Cheaper parts of the UK, there's enough sink estates already. Of course what isn't explained that a lot of people who have fallen foul of this policy end up in hotel accommodation costing councils more money than keeping them where they are, because there isn't anywhere for them to go.

Thatcher and her "let's sell off the council houses" policies eh?

Thatcher and her "let's sell off the council houses" policies eh?

Yep. Good job Labour stopped it during their 13 years.

Thankfully Labour were also competent enough custodians of the economy to prevent the biggest housing bubble the country has ever seen otherwise we'd be right in the shit eh?

Kryton57 - Member

So the line is - if you can't afford it, your out. And the problem with that reality check is what exactly?

Sounds like an equally good argument for stopping [i]all[/i] social housing.

Social cleansing is a bit harsh, I realise every area needs benefit dependent, long term unemployed people who couldn't afford to be there without subsidy........or you could accept its one of the most expensive cities in the world where deadwood has no use

economic apartheid

pretty emotive language there but effectively yes, and your point is?

Social cleansing for a start

pretty emotive language there but effectively yes, and your point is?

I'm not commenting on the policy of relocation as even if there is some kernal of a good idea in there the benefits will be over shadowed by poor implementation but in nutshell how much money you have does have a significant bearing on where you live. It might not be the fairest way of managing a society but I think it's better than the politicians constant tinkering to win votes and be more superficially popular (or at least less unpopular).

I think the idea is to move all the rioters out of London, then no one important (rich) cares what they do.

Social cleansing is a bit harsh, I realise every area needs benefit dependent, long term unemployed people who couldn't afford to be there without subsidy........or you could accept its one of the most expensive cities in the world where deadwood has no use

The other term for it is gentrification.

Generally the best city planning technique to reduce crime and increase social mobility is not to hole up all the poor people in single areas and to instead spread the chav load evenly throughout urbanized areas.

Police forces then don't have to deal with high amounts of concentrated crime in no go areas....if you break them up over larger distances you are reducing their amount of readily available criminal contacts..... and social mobility supposedly increases because people look at others around them doing well and aspire to do better themselves.

Basically scum encourages more scum.

I'm sure there are plenty of second home/buy to let/Audi/Orange 5 people on here and Thatcher/Council housing issues aside, if market demand was saying you could get £3000 a month for your house you WOULD be taking it. London, as are most capital cities, is such a place.

The economy that allows use to own dandy bikes is the same one that means poor folk can't live in expensive cities, move along.

The economy that allows use to own dandy bikes is the same one that means poor folk can't live in expensive cities, move along.

Except who will clean your cars, wait on your tables, drive your taxis etc if those people are increasingly being pushed out of reasonable commuting distance to london by ever increasing rent and petrol rates?

As if unfettered market economics have done us sooooo well in the past.

Basically scum encourages more scum.

That kinda knackers the prison system, then.

That kinda knackers the prison system, then.

Yup....to an extent, that's a whole other story though.

Generally the best city planning technique to reduce crime and increase social mobility is not to hole up all the poor people in single areas and to instead spread the chav load evenly throughout urbanized areas.

You obviously didn't read the thread on social housing in new private developments then.

The best way of dealing with crime and increasing social mobility is to remove the scum (don't know how or where) and not inflict them on the other 99.9% of the population be they waged or unwaged.

The economy that allows use to own dandy bikes is the same one that means poor folk can't live in expensive cities, move along.

Nonsense. There is no economic argument for social cleansing, in fact the reverse is true, social cleansing costs more in terms of policing, benefits, loss of productivity and loss of tax revenue.

This is just about an irrational hatred of the poor which is a tenant of Conservative ideology.

You obviously didn't read the thread on social housing in new private developments then.

The best way of dealing with crime and increasing social mobility is to remove the scum (don't know how or where) and not inflict them on the other 99.9% of the population be they waged or unwaged.

Except it isn't 99.9 percent of the population is it? I'm not talking about proper hardened criminal offenders, I'm talking about your low level asbo teenagers etc.

Breaking them up makes them a shit load more manageable for the police and the education system - ghettoizing them in black hole sink estates does not.

The best way of dealing with crime and increasing social mobility is to remove the scum[b] (don't know how or where) [/b]and not inflict them on the other 99.9% of the population be they waged or unwaged.

I kinda see a problem. I think you do too.

The best way of dealing with crime and increasing social mobility is to remove the scum (don't know how or where) and not inflict them on the other 99.9% of the population be they waged or unwaged.

Surely not creating them in the first place would be a better solution. Promoting inequality, social exclusion and social immobility, creates the problem. Isolating and concentrating them is only going to magnify the problem, unless the plan is to sterilise them before exporting them from London.

The best way of dealing with crime and increasing social mobility is to remove the scum (don't know how or where) and not inflict them on the other 99.9% of the population be they waged or unwaged.

Australia, last time we did that.

I'd have loved to have been on the planning board for that one. "We've discovered a huge, sunny island paradise on the other side of the world; let's round up all our criminals and send them over there while we stay here on our grey, damp little island." Genius.

As if exporting a bunch of southern fairies up North to become proper hardened scum bags was a good idea.

You make a good point. If they exported all their unwanted subclasses up here, they'd get such a shoeing that they'd mend their ways.

Maybe.

Bwarp, I struggle with these dilemmas as as someone who grew up pretty skint in a socialist/trade union/pity the worker household and through nothing but hard work/shit jobs and never giving up has a comfortable life I just can't accept that there is not away out for these folk..

I once lived in London for few years doing the jobs you describe and when the point came when I could no longer afford it I left, for a cheaper area and never looked back.

I wasn't being entirely serious, you know (-:

Social cleansing is a bit harsh, I realise every area needs benefit dependent, long term unemployed people who couldn't afford to be there without subsidy........or you could accept its one of the most expensive cities in the world where deadwood has no use

economic apartheid

pretty emotive language there but effectively yes, and your point is?

Social cleansing for a start

pretty emotive language there but effectively yes, and your point is?

I bet they do something really genius like sending them to Millwall, St Annes in Nottingham or the sink estates in Gunchester. Yeah because that will help bring the police budgets down.

I have to say debating the issues of the less fortunate on an online forum is a 1st world problem

Mod in edinburgh defence SHOCKA

Bite me.

(-:

I have to say debating the issues of the less fortunate on an online forum is a 1st world problem

Believe it or not there are affluent people who do the same in third world countries...

I'd have loved to have been on the planning board for that one. "We've discovered a huge, sunny island paradise on the other side of the world; let's round up all our criminals and send them over there while we stay here on our grey, damp little island." Genius.

Someone needs to read The Fatal Shore

Breaking them up makes them a shit load more manageable for the police and the education system - ghettoizing them in black hole sink estates does not.

True, so it makes the problem go away for the authorities but destroys the lives of many, many normal people, I refer you back to people's experiences on the other thread.

DD, yes I also see a problem, maybe not the same one you do, our politicians don't have the balls / vision to deal with the backside of our society. I don't have an answer I'm fully comfortable with, but then I haven't put myself up for election claiming to be able to sort out societies ills like the politicians do.

Not going to argue anymore, I've got to go to bed as I have to go to work in the morning so I'm able to pay for my miserable northern (non London) property which apparently isn't worthy of the state supported denziens of London.

Believe it or not there are affluent people who do the same in third world countries...

But they do it via drum????

True, so it makes the problem go away for the authorities but destroys the lives of many, many normal people, I refer you back to people's experiences on the other thread.

DD, yes I also see a problem, maybe not the same one you do, our politicians don't have the balls / vision to deal with the backside of our society. I don't have an answer I'm fully comfortable with, but then I haven't put myself up for election claiming to be able to sort out societies ills like the politicians do.

Not going to argue anymore, I've got to go to bed as I have to go to work in the morning so I'm able to pay for my miserable northern (non London) property which apparently isn't worthy of the state supported denziens of London.

This, ladies and gentlemen is a proper full on selfish attitude to take. Have you not though that there are plenty of normal law abiding citizens mixed in with the lower end of the working classes as well?

Also, if Cameron get's his way - prepare to be saying hello to hundreds of new criminals in area near you.

But they do it via drum????

Mainly via radio talk shows in Western Africa - the level of political and legal debate would put most westerners to shame. Makes Jeremy Vine looks like children's hour.

Mainly via radio talk shows in Western Africa - the level of political and legal debate would put most westerners to shame. Makes Jeremy Vine looks like children's hour.

The Philippines is 2nd/third-worldish......shock ****ing horror they have teh internetz, rotary clubs and even their own NGO's!

Who'd have thought brown people could do all that hey?

I just picture Matthew from Desmond's barber shop

Also, if Cameron get's his way - prepare to be saying hello to hundreds of new criminals in area near you.

Unless you live in London, in which case they'll all have been rounded up in the night, put on trains and sent to [s]Auschwitz[/s] S****horpe.

Could send them to Scotland/Corby and build another wall I guess.

Could send them to Scotland/Corby and build another wall I guess.

I suspect Salmond will get there first, only his wall will be too keep the Scots in (or possibly the English out).

its an interesting one the fabians do an interesting one about crime rates and the levels of inequity within a society- well worth a read for th elovers of capitalism

the answer to ending crime is to share stuff more evenly [ chances, opportunity , education, wealth everything]not to hit them with a bigger stick beacuse they are lazy,****less and amoral

Of course that means you have to help them and not harm them so some find this a disgusting proposal

bwaarp

Have you not though that there are plenty of normal law abiding citizens mixed in with the lower end of the working classes as well?

Why yes I believe I had already made that point

stumpyjon

The best way of dealing with crime and increasing social mobility is to remove the scum (don't know how or where) and not inflict them on the other 99.9% of the population be they waged or unwaged.

which you actually disagreed with

bwaarp

Except it isn't 99.9 percent of the population is it

😳

But hey I bet you now feel really self righteous, enough to get personal when someone holds an opinion you disagree with (or don't bother to read properly).

This, ladies and gentlemen is a proper full on selfish attitude to take

I suspect Salmond will get there first, only the ginger hedge will be too keep the Scots in (or possibly the English out).

FTFY

Without getting too deep isn't this just evolution? It's moved from biggest club/animal to feed the tribe to house/money ability to survive, surely at some point folk will fall by the wayside however much we try to create equal opportunity. Discuss.

Why yes I believe I had already made that point

stumpyjon

So how do you propose weeding out the 'deserving' poor from the scum when you are making blanket proposals that use wealth as a sole factor in deciding who get's social housing in London?

Without getting too deep isn't this just evolution? It's moved from biggest club/animal to feed the tribe to house/money ability to survive, surely at some point folk will fall by the wayside however much we try to create equal opportunity. Discuss.

Alpha female wolf provides for the rest of the pack and eats last. Discuss.

Of course that means you have to help them and not harm them so [s]some[/s] [b]Conservatives[/b] find this a disgusting proposal

FIFY

Alpha wolf also lets the weak die for the greater good. Discuss.

Edit. You edited, alpha female doesn't exist

Not going to argue anymore, I've got to go to bed as I have to go to work in the morning

I bet you now feel really self righteous, enough to get personal when someone holds an opinion you disagree with

Have an internet power point [ it wont make you sleepy]

Alpha wolf also lets the weak die for the greater good. Discuss.

There's a huge difference between being terminally ill and another pack mouth to feed. Discuss.

You edited, alpha female doesn't exist

Oh **** this is funny.

we are not wolves
Dont discuss

Well, that's where that fact that we're not 'really' one pack comes into play; no matter how much social policy exists those natural, self preservative instincts always come out

Nahhh I'm enjoying being a smartarse Junkyard

Well, that's where that fact that we're not 'really' one pack comes into play; no matter how much social policy exists those natural, self preservative instincts always come ot

So if we are not a unified society, why should they follow the rules and not resort to murdering you in your sleep in the name of social Darwinism?

I lived on benefits for a while in camden. It would have been handy if they shipped me here to noth wales back then, it would've saved me living a further 4 years in a sh#@hole in hackney.

There's a big difference between killing me and living in a house you can't afford

not for the wolves there isnt 😕

There's a big difference between killing me and living in a house you can't afford

Morally, if you show the attitude that you have done towards the poor then why should they respect your rights?

What would you also say to the idea that social Darwinism actually lead to the strengthening of ancestral societies through the natural selection of human individuals that could show compassion?

Self-interest can destroy a gene line quite easily.

As a biologist, I'm really having a ****ing laugh reading your attempt to use Darwinism in a socioeconomic context.

I would say you know far more than me.

What would you say to high intensity non invasive ventilation (mean IPAP 29 cmH2O) leads to lower and sustained arterial carbon dioxide levels in COPD patients?

Worst. Analogy. Ever.

Owoooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Worst. Analogy. Ever.

And what I would say to the 'idea' is its just that because its obviously not happening.

Yep. Good job Labour stopped it during their 13 years.

Thankfully Labour were also competent enough custodians of the economy to prevent the biggest housing bubble the country has ever seen otherwise we'd be right in the shit eh?

Some lead, some follow. It had to of started somewhere. It started with her.

What would you say to high intensity non invasive ventilation (mean IPAP 29 cmH2O) leads to lower and sustained arterial carbon dioxide levels in COPD patients?

I'm not a murse so I don't care. But I would say possibly - nice that you had to bring in yet another statement that is totally unrelated to the OP though.

If you're a doctor - I fear for your patients.

Darwinism

Survival of the fittest. The fall back position of the selfish.

BenHouldsworth - Member

What would you say to high intensity non invasive ventilation (mean IPAP 29 cmH2O) leads to lower and sustained arterial carbon dioxide levels in COPD patients?

I'll get my mum a singletrack login and get her on this thread, I'm sure her COPD will give her a valuable insight into the social housing debate which we'll all benefit from.

If you were a 'murse' would you spell it like that? Why would you fear for my patients? Non if them ask for my opinion on 1st world cycling forum topics

Nahhh, I wouldn't become a murse in the first place.

Edit: I'll get banned for the Bricktop clip.

😆

Northward, fortunately only people of GOLD 4 classification of COPD tend to require NIV, however if your Mum ever needs any advice I'll point her in the right direction.

Because riffing off BMA/NHS guidelines show's intellect......lol this is like something out of....

No, it shows I know about what I do in the real world and not at half eleven at night with a bunch of argumentative ##### who didn't get non on Valentine night.

No, it shows I know about what I do in the real world and not at half eleven with a bunch of argumentative ##### who didn't get non on Valentine night

Hey, I have a missus with big boobs....a slim body and a good brain who happens to be working tonight!

She also likes threesomes with other birds - so my life is awesome thanks.

Winding you up is relieving my boredom until she get's back.

I was expecting that scene to end with Ryan O'Reilly stabbing Matt Damon with a shank made out of a sharpened spoon, then shouting "Stay away from my brother man!"