On that point – I know why UEFA want to stage in neutral venues, and allocate tickets to sponsors and locals as well as the teams, but Baku? Really? When it’s a fair bet that it’ll be W.EU teams in the finals. OK, 4xEPL is an anomaly but you’d predict the finalists to come from Germany, Italy, France, Spain or England really wouldn’t you?
It's the least they can do, given the fact that both competitions so heavily favour teams from the big 5 countries. It's ridiculous that the likes of Ajax and Celtic have to play qualifying rounds, despite winning their respective leagues.
Favour teams ? By that you mean having more of the better teams in the competition ? Lets be honest, having an extra team from Azerbaijan or Moldova etc isn't exactly going to bring a lot to the spectacle of the game if you have to remove someone like a Spanish/English/French team etc is it ?
Sure it will be great for the particular team on the day.. but to then see them drubbed by the big sides isn't really helping the profile much ? We as fans want to see good matches.
Of course you want to see good games, but should the Dutch champions really have to qualify? I mean really?. Should be called the elite league, not the champions league.
Well i'd expect after a better showing this year, they may not have to next time. But until this season the dutch sides have done nothing to justify an instant qualification, like Celtic. Until they beat some teams, why do they deserve an instant qually ? It's a rankings based things based upon previous performances of that league/tier.
What have Liverpool or Spurs done to deserve instant qualification then? Be in the right place at the right time is the answer. 🙂
Well, apart from Liverpool being in the Champions league final the year before ? Not all English clubs get instant qualification. Liverpool in 2017/18 had to beat Hoffenheim in the pre-qualification stages before going through to the Champions League proper. The other teams are based upon the PRemier Leagues performances over previous seasons, with Man Utd, City, Arsenal, Chelsea etc regularly making the Semis or indeed winning the CL.
should the Dutch champions really have to qualify?
Possibly not and I take your point on the 'Champions' league - but seedings are based on the performances of the nation's teams in the competition previously (Ajax went out to Nice pre group stages in 2017, got humped by ten men of Rostov in 2016) and also the national team itself (which is misleading seeing as most teams are hardly representative of the nation itself nowadays, but FWIW they've not qualified for the Euros or WC since 2014)
I'd love it to go back to the national champions plus the holders of the trophy but think of the money in matchday and TV sponsorship they'd be passing up....I think I've spotted the problem!
It’s ridiculous that the likes of Ajax and Celtic have to play qualifying rounds, despite winning their respective leagues.
Winning their respective leagues? All Celtic have to do is turn up. If Celtic were playing in England they'd be mid-table in the Championship, just above Brentford.
I'd extend it the other way and have PSG qualify too 😉
Well, apart from Liverpool being in the Champions league final the year before ?
Qualification is based on last season Weeksy, not previous glories.
Aye, spot on Jon, all about cash and brown envelopes. To think, if it did return to the old format, the UEFA cup would be the bigger competition than the European cup!
If Celtic were in the playing in England they’d be mid-table in the Championship, just above Brentford
Utter nonsense! You're just bitter cos the old lady of Manchester is creaking like one of Rooneys gilfs these days! 🙂
Qualification is based on last season Weeksy, not previous glories.
Qualification yes, overall seeding, no. That's based upon performances of the 'league' in the major competitions on previous, previous seasons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_coefficient
The order of the four pots – each comprising of eight teams – is determined by Uefa’s club coefficient ranking, which calculates a mark for each club taking into account their record in European competition over the past five seasons.
Victory for Benfica in their play-off tie with PAOK Salonika – confirmed by last night’s 4-1 second leg rout in Greece – secured the Portuguese side a place in Pot 2 and ended Liverpool’s hopes of moving up into the second tier of seeds. Though Benfica lost all six of their Champions League fixtures last term, they have been an ever-present in Europe’s top tier for the last five campaigns and reached the quarter-finals in 2015/16 as well as the Round of 16 the following season.
Read more: Liverpool’s Champions League group and fixtures – in full
Liverpool, meanwhile, have only qualified for the Champions League in two of the last five seasons. They may have reached the final last time out, but Benfica have pipped them to Pot 2 on the basis of long-term consistency.
All four European finalists have lost to Wolverhampton Wanderers this season.
this is not something that has been said before.
All four European finalists have lost to Wolverhampton Wanderers this season.
this is not something that has been said before.
And which (ex-'clue') PL team took 6 points off Wolves this season? Junior school logic says Town should be World Champions however it don't work like that which is a shame.
We've just put some kit in a local hotel for Manchester City. 3rd time we've done that at this hotel for the visiting team and the previous 2 both lost at the Amex.
Ro5ey, I've fallen in love with the Teal! its dirty to say that but...i ordered a shirt last night! only a £15 ebay special which surely is a fake and wiil fall apart in 3 washes but well...the club don't get any extra money for a shirt sale so I saved myself £30 and I'm hoping I'll come to my senses and only Lilywhte will do by the time the fake falls apart
Oh and pot 1 - 7 biggest league winners plus the CL holder, pot 2 and 3 are on coefficient. Spurs scraped into pot 2 for this year as the lowest seed at a coefficient of 19. so spurs of liverpool will be pot one, possible both (or man city will be the 2nd in pot one) from runnig down the list of teams currently in the group stage spurs proper already i count at least 5 that aren't pot 1 (league winners) above spurs, but liverpool are a fair bit higher. Liverpool should be pot 2 if not 1, Spurs....pot 1 obvs!
Well we've been called back to put more kit in for City. Exactly what happened on the last two occasions, it's not looking good for them
i'm still being brought to tears
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xNSTVvc9B_XsY8qk7iPTBvnR9tfoGXq3/view
need sound up
What's everyone doing for the matches then? I'm off to my Liverpool-supporting mate's to watch them suffer. Its the hope that kills you..... 😀
Should be a corker this! Given the absolutely bonkers nature of what's happened so far this this week, I doubt it's going to be straightforward. What an end to the season? The standard of football from Liverpool and City has been on another level completely. It's been absolutely brilliant to watch
Enjoy, you lot!
Just got to the pub. Got the last free table although it's possible the crinklys will all piss off once they've finished their roast dinners.
Pub in Apsley, I don't even ask me where Apsley is, not far from Hemel.
Got to collect my boy from Scout camp at 5, so was the only way I'd get to see it as it's 90 min from mine to collect him
They've got both games on
quiet first quarters, but it's kicking off now!
Bah! And Grrrr.
I think that should be that now. But you never know!
I think I'd call it now......
Although.....Liverpool came back from 3 behind in a second leg; Spurs in a second half......can Brighton do it in 20 minutes?
No
Let's not forget...
Man U 0 . Cardiff 2.
United board has a big dilemma now!
Well done Liverpool, nice try. Thank god you didn't win. Now please destroy Spurs.
Let’s not forget…
Man U 0 . Cardiff 2.
Cardiff fans singing "You're getting fired in the morning" 🙂
United board has a dilemma now
I’m presume you mean whether or not they should all **** off? I think I could give you an answer to that.
I knew this was going to happen today. It just perfectly capped off a bloody awful run of form caused by clueless owners who have given the players licence to decide whether or not they can actually be bothered to turn up
You can’t blame Ole. The whole ownership and management culture of the club is absolutely rotten to the core
They can sell every player (if anyone would have them) and replace the lot, but unless theirs some significant changes happen in the structure of the club, it’s just going to be more of the same
Hats off to City and Liverpool. They’ve played absolutely top notch football all season that has been amazing to watch
I can blame Ole
Though I was amused by the Wolves fans giving a rousing rendition of “* all! You’ll never win * all!”
I know it’s a double negative, but I think we got what they meant and it cheered up a truly terminally miserable last day for a United fan 😂
Another big cup game for Newport, off to Wemberley.
They can sell every player (if anyone would have them) and replace the lot, but unless theirs some significant changes happen in the structure of the club, it’s just going to be more of the same
That's the dilemma. Do you replace the coach with someone else to try to polish the turds and get some of the 'world class' players to give a shit, or do you flush out the Augean stables that is the MU squad over the summer and start again?
It's just bizarre that they had this fantastic run under Ole, playing attractive attacking football, but then flipped a switch and it was straight back to the bad old days (only worse).
Pogba has to go, doesn't he?
Sacked in the morning sounds like a reasonable shout for Ole. A bad mistake has been made, and it ain't about to fix itself over 3 months of no football. Clubs will usually act fast in this situation.
They had a great run under Ole yes, but it was hardly attractive attacking football. He seems keen to play on the break, sit deep and counter attack. Against the mid table and better sides you’ve got to be having more of a go to be honest. Isn’t that the United way as he kept harping on about during that run?
Got to question some of the decisions too - why give Martial such a good new contract if his attitude is poor? Why give Phil Jones a new deal? Make a statement and ship him out, he’s injured half the time and mince when he plays.
Would expect the fans would revolt if Ole gets sacked though. Give him next season at least.
Didn't he have them on the worst losing run since Liverpool last won the league (so we're going back a bit)? Utd fans are a sentimental bunch but I can't see them taking to the warpath if he gets binned. There's be some superficial grumbling, but they all know Ole's out of his league so they'd just direct their ire at Woodward, whilst privately being happy to see the back of him.
Yeah - any revolt I’m sure would be directed to Ed Woodward and the board. Giving Ole the job and not waiting to the end of the season sums his decision making up! He just seems to get all the big ones wrong.
Ole was amazing at Cardiff, I can see why United signed him up!
In all honesty they should have waited until the end of the season before deciding, bet they are kicking themselves as they would have been in with a chance of Poch I recon.
It’s just bizarre that they had this fantastic run under Ole, playing attractive attacking football, but then flipped a switch and it was straight back to the bad old days (only worse).
Always hard to tell from the outside, but it seems like a confidence thing. I don't think they have the consistent quality through the whole squad right now to challenge the top teams, regardless of the manager. Once their winning run ended (and it was mostly against weaker teams), they lost the belief that they could keep winning and fell back into old habits.
Seems like there's too much focus on Pogba as well, maybe the world cup flattered him but he can't carry a whole squad by himself. Record signings of big names don't seem to be working out too well for United (at least on the pitch, I'm sure it sells a lot of shirts) but I'm not sure what selling him would achieve when they already look weak in midfield.
It will all be ok, when Rio gets the director of football job.
I'm not sure at this stage they need to challenge the best of the best, that wasn't going to happen.
But after the inital surge in performance and style i think people hoped for a bit 'more' than they had earlier, but it seems they have slumped back into their older ways.
TBH i never thought for a second he was the right man for the job, he's done next to nothing as a manager, as a man-manager or indeed as a coach. At Man Utd you need to get the big name players in and someone like him just isn't enough to do that.
Of course we could argue that's exactly what they did with Jose and look how that went, but we'd all seen the Jose implosion before with Madrid and Chelsea, so wasn't exactly a shock.
Personally, i think they'd have done better with Eddie Howe for example. Sure he's not of the super manager level, but as a 'potential' then he should have been topping their list ?
There was an interesting article on Football 365 talking about the incentives that Sanchez and Pogba get paid for goals / assists ... and how much that is out of kilter with the rest of the team.
Onbvious Pogba's name will sell shirts , Sanchez makes them appeal to the Latin market ... but at the cost of team spirit.
Much as I thin Morinho as the ability to be a dick, I don't think the blame is with him or Ole - the blame is with Woodward.
That siad ... well done Citeh. Next years the noisy neighbours will be stronger ( the ones ta Anfield, that is). Perhaps we could get one of those patronising ticket tape banners that they had at Old Trafford?
And well done Seagulls, for staying up ... but FFS, sort out your recuitment process and don't buy from the Dutch league ... the players are hopeless ...
I don’t think the blame is with him or Ole – the blame is with Woodwar
How ? Whilst the owner/directors/etc can influence some of the purchases it's down to the manager/staff mould, change, affect them players into their system, into their tactics and style of play. The bosses in suits are not on the training ground telling them how to press, to pass, to break teams down or defend corners. Sure, you may not have all the players you want, you may have a couple you don't want... but you're far from alone as probably only City/Liverpool can say they actually have all the players they want (and not even them to an extent) the rest of the squads are built upon compromise, budget and availabilty.
Next years the noisy neighbours will be stronger ( the ones ta Anfield, that is).
I am not so sure about that, I think with the squads as they are now, city could go again next year and get 95+ points. I don't really believe Liverpool could. I think Liverpool really need to strengthen their midfield, especially in terms of creativity. Citys challenge could be holding onto some of the players that are no longer automatic picks, ie Sane and Gundogan.
their riches are astounding aren't they.
Sane, hell, i'd have him in any team any day of the week, i think he's brilliant. Then players like Gundogan and Mahrez pop up with goals like them ones and i sit and think "wow... incredible"
I'm inclined to agree on Liverpool, i can't imagine how they'll get 95+ again... but hell, you never know !
Got to question some of the decisions too – why give Martial such a good new contract if his attitude is poor? Why give Phil Jones a new deal?
Just two more to add to the ever-lengthening list of absolutely inexplicable decisions taken at OT since Fergie hung up his stopwatch. Signing Sanchez on his ludicrous salary being in bright red capital letters, underlined, right at the top.
And thats the problem. How much say is the manager having in these decisions? Not much by the looks of things. It looks like the call is being made by people who know an awful lot about increasing shirt sales in emerging markets and very little about actually playing football.
Can't see anything but City v Liverpool for the title for the next few seasons, with both of them finishing a similar amount of points above the rest. But both clubs seem to have hands-off owners who are happy to supply funds, but also allow their (brilliant) managers to make their own decisions
But both clubs seem to have hands-off owners who are happy to supply funds,
There was a piece on the BBC the other day, that suggests that city's chairman is a bit more involved than you may suspect, although his involvement seems to be rather positive. They do more than just supplying the cash, they know that running a winning football team is more than that. To be brutally honest, despite what they may take out of the club, united's owners have been handing over the cash, that isn't where the problem lies.
Let's start with the second one. Just after Tottenham knocked City out of the Champions League in the quarter-finals, there was silence, interspersed with tears in the coaching room.
At City, directors and, especially, the chairman tend to be balanced both in moments of euphoric victory and painful defeats. As Latins, Pep Guardiola and his right-hand man Manel Estiarte tend to be a tad more dramatic.
The scene, post-game, was traumatic. Director of football Txiki Begiristain and Joan Patsy, a key part of the technical department, were there. "Damn this Champions League! It is so hard. We can't win it!" someone shouted in Catalan.
At this point the club's chairman, Khaldoon Al Mubarak, entered the room. After a while his train of thought turned to what was needed.
"Let's focus on the Premier League. We are five games from making history," he said. His words brought memories of what he had said the previous season after City failed to clinch the title when they squandered a 2-0 lead to lose to rivals Manchester United.
"We have won the title," he told them. "If not this week then next. Why don't we focus our energies on establishing all possible records?"
I’m inclined to agree on Liverpool, i can’t imagine how they’ll get 95+ again… but hell, you never know !
My view as a City fan is that Liverpool will win it next season. Defences win leagues, and Liverpool's, for me, is unquestionably the best in the PL right now, whereas City's looks a lot less robust.
Hughton sacked by Brighton
Sad decision about Hughton ... I think he has done a really good job. But the second half of theseason was a bit rubbish , and the tactics lacking.
The really fault lies with the players bought last season.
I think sacking Chris H is a mistake in the longer term .... and who will B&HA get to replace him ...
Martinhutch - as a fellow Citeh fan, I would agree with you positioning. Liverpool have been far more consistent and "solid".
Solid is not a MCFC trait ...
TBH that's harsh IMO.... keeping them in the league .... sacked... harsh...
I've also felt that Liverpool have just got better and better as the season progressed. We started off stuffing teams by five goals and racing into a lead, ended up crawling over the line a bit, needed a bit of a fluke to get past Leicester, just about edged Burnley, falling behind to Brighton.
A repeat of the Liverpool fixture in the last handful of games would have produced a different result, I think.
Hughton sacked by Brighton
Mental. Keeping them up. FA Cup Semi (lost narrowly to the champions). What exactly do the owners expect?
Sacking Hughton is insane. It does make you wonder what the level of expectation is at a club that size? By the looks of it; not a realistic one
I’ve also felt that Liverpool have just got better and better as the season progressed. We started off stuffing teams by five goals and racing into a lead, ended up crawling over the line a bit, needed a bit of a fluke to get past Leicester, just about edged Burnley, falling behind to Brighton.
A repeat of the Liverpool fixture in the last handful of games would have produced a different result, I think.
Winning 14 straight, under massive pressure that a single slip will cost you the league, is crawling over the line? Don't think so - it was a crushing display of psychological dominance. But then it is easy for you to be magnanimous in victory.
You've got nothing to worry about next year, either - despite all the pats on the back for LFC, it'll be your year next time lads, currently doing the rounds.
it was a crushing display of psychological dominance.
It was impressive, for sure, but I think Liverpool finished stronger under similar pressure, and produced two excellent performances against Barca. If we had faced someone from the top six in that final run of games I'm not convinced we would have reached the necessary level. The CL games against Spurs hinted at that.
I genuinely think the finish to the season makes Liverpool slight favourites for next season.
However it really goes to show that at the moment if you want to win you have to reach a level that it almost impossible.
huh? Man Cities run in was tougher and included games away to tottenham and Man Utd. They kept their nerve. I dont see that liverpool were stronger.
Ssssshhhhhhh. Don't spoil it. They're gearing up for 'their year'
If you do you'll be cursed to be forever haunted by the restless spirits of Alan Hansen and Mark Lawrenson 😀
It’s a toss up between the two for me. I think City’s finish was amazing. To hold their nerve and put 14 wins together back to back would be nigh on impossible at any stage of a season, let alone their last 14 games. Fair dues - in a way it came down to the performance in their matches together - Liverpool couldn’t beat City at home. But City did the job on them at the Etihad. If the only team to finish above you is the only one that beat you, it’s hard to complain.
Ironically, I kind of wonder if the owners of both sides (NOT necessarily the fans - although certainly most of Liverpool’s) would swap positions at the moment...
They’re gearing up for ‘their year’
Still ?
Find another donkey to beat, you've killed that one.
Its the hope that kills you
Just replace the two n’s in his name with t’s and you’re pretty much there
I guess, binners, that, at least, they still have hope ... 🙂
Just looked at the final Premier League table.
Champions - 98 points,
Man Utd - 66 points,
Safety - 36 points.
Man Utd in 6th place, were closer to being relegated this season than they were to being champions.
That seems incredible to me & shows how far in front Liverpool & City are just now.
Its a combination of how good City and Liverpool are, but also just how bloody awful we are. Spurs, Chelski and Arsenal have been moderately better, but not much. Of the supposed other 'big clubs' everyone has been absolutely bloody woeful for the last third of the season. Nobody apparently wanting the last two Champions Leagues spots
I can't see it changing either. Well... not for the better. If anything I think that clubs like Wolves, Everton and Leicester are going to be in the mix for those 3rd and 4th spots
I guess, binners, that, at least, they still have hope …
And a CL final to look forward to. 🙂
I have huge respect and admiration for the work Hughton has done at Brighton but I think if you’ve watched Brighton at all this calendar year then it probably wouldn’t come as much of a surprise.
We stayed up because Fulham, Huddersfield and Cardiff were were worse than we were.
I think Tony Bloom has decided that something needed to change if we are to have any chance of staying up next season.
There is a bit of a mythology, especially I think in the English game, that long term managers is the key to success. This is based on the exceptions.
The reality is, after 3/4/5 seasons if it is starting to go stale, then it makes sense to refresh the leadership, especially if you can do it straight after the season ends. Hopefully they already have someone new lined up who will contribute to the summers recruitment and take them in the direction they want.
Muggomagic .. I can only agree ... and they were woeful to watch... other than against citeh in the FA cup ....
both Cardiff and Bournmouth were awful performances ....
But was that Highton's issue ?
The players bought in last summer would struggle in teh championship, Jahankabsh is hopeless, Iqueirzo ... he's never seen and Locadio is hit and miss ...
If they were bought of Hughton's request then the die was cast ... but is that the case?
The reality is, after 3/4/5 seasons if it is starting to go stale, then it makes sense to refresh the leadership, especially if you can do it straight after the season ends.
I think it's the right time for both Brighton and Hughton. He leaves having on the whole done an excellent job with his reputation intact. If he stayed and we carried on like we had done then he'd have been sacked by the first international break.
I wish him all the best, now the pressure is on Tony Bloom and Dan Ashworth to get the right man in. Worried about rumours of Frank Lampard being on the shortlist as we could end up in the same situation as we were when Hyypia took over.
The players bought in last summer would struggle in teh championship, Jahankabsh is hopeless, Iqueirzo … he’s never seen and Locadio is hit and miss …
If they were bought of Hughton’s request then the die was cast … but is that the case?
I don't know, but I assume Hughton would've had some say in whether he thought a player was worth signing or not.
My biggest issue was not so much the lack of quality it was the lack of spirit. We rolled over against Bournemouth and looked terrible against Cardiff. The first half performance against Newcastle was an absolute shocker too. A game that we needed to get something out of and we just sat back and let them pass it for 45 mins.
City's run was awesome and they were not given easy rides by the likes of Leicester etc. It was great and slightly worrying that Kompany was such a pivotal figure in the last few games. A real leader who will be difficult to replace.
I cannot see next season being anything other than a battle between City and Liverpool. Of the two I think City have more to do to get their squad ready as many of their key players are either getting on (Fernandinho, Kompany, Silva) or could be leaving (Gundogan). They need a reliable specialist left back as well as Mendy seems to be a permanent crock. The recuitment also seems a bit questionable as Mahrez has not done much and they dodged bullets with Sanchez and Jorginho.
Liverpool do not seem to have any players (except maybe Milner) who are reaching their sell by date but they do need to improve their midfield as I cannot see Oxlaide-Chamberlain being able to make the difference (not in the same bracket as KDB or Bernado Silva).
What will be interesting is the introduction of VAR. There is a perception that Liverpool have been very lucky with decisions this season so it will be interesting to see whether VAR proves/disproves that.
If Pep and co have a good transfer window and KdB has an injury free season my money is on City. Will also put a side bet on United finishing out of the top six (replaced by Leicester) and OGS being gone by the turn of the year.
I think OGS being gone by Christmas is a pretty safe bet, although I doubt the odds make it a worthwhile bet, I wouldn't be surprised to see him replaced before the start of next season, if the united board actually have the balls to admit they have made a mistake and rectify it quickly.
I am interested to see what happens with Wolves and Leicester next season, they look to be moving in a good direction and playing good football, but it is hard for teams in their positions to keep building, when the probability is their best players will be picked off. They need to convince their star players, another year with them will be best to build for their big move, rather than going too soon and benchwarming at a champions league club. But it is a hard sell to make.
I'd be surprised if OGS leave next season unless he is backed massively in summer and the team is terrible.
Woodward is on thin ice with crowds and so early a change after 3 previous horrendous managerial appointments would surely end in a backlash for him? Both from the crowds and glazers.
Rumours are that the same time OGS was appointed, a lot of contract negotiations were also stopped which pissed off the Spanish contingent and the French.
Injuries piled up as the players couldn't cope with high pressing game after 2 years of being the team covering the least ground on the pitch. Lukaku looks massive and blows out of his arse after 25 mins and he's the most obvious.
They'll claim a rebuilding year but it'll take loads more to fix utd.
I think city will do it again next year, greater strength in depth all over. Don't Liverpool's front three have a ridiculous appearance record for the last two years plus it's an ACON year. Be surprised if they don't burn out/get more injuries this coming season.
Man Utd suck and it will take a few seasons before they are force to be feared. Confidence issue? What for £250k a week?! Die hard fans are going to turn their backs on them if they don’t get rid of some of their players.
City were still good but still relying on one player to turn it around. Showing weaknesses unless they make improvements.
Liverpool showed how strong they’re getting and have the strike force and defence to match. Faves to win.
Don’t write off Tottenham or Chelsea.
Arse.
