Although Burnley away is probably tougher than United away at the moment. And there’s Agent Brendan and Leicester at home too. Brighton away to finish who may still need a point or two for survival. But it’s likely that the three teams they’ve got to play will have nothing to play for so yeah, can’t see anything other than 3 wins.
Realistically, they would have been more likely to drop a couple more points before the end of the season if they were still in the champions league, but with the time they now have to prepare for the remaining games, highly unlikely to drop more points than Liverpool. I could still see Liverpool getting another draw before the end of the season.
At least we turned up. About as good as it gets this season.
Keane’s face while Gary Neville is harping on 😂
I wish we still had him on the pitch
City’s to lose now. I’m reckoning Liverpool will lose to Wolves to finish it. Last game of the season? The last team you want to be playing
It’s going to go to the wire.
What a season!
I don’t think Liverpool will win all three either. United still got a chance of top 4 I think, which is a bit of a miracle to be honest, especially if they beat Chelsea. Arsenal look out of it with their fixtures.
Don’t get me stated about Keane but...67 caps in 14 years and one awol. Didn’t try too hard for my country.
My money and forlorn hope is on Glenn Murray to score a headed corner in the 89 minute.
Brenda Rogers will see em rite
Seen the PFA team of the year selection? Pogba FFS! While there might be a couple of close calls in other positions, Pogba should be no where near the team of the year, he can't have turned up for more than a handful of matches all season.
Anyway, here is my team of the season
The game went about as well as can be expected for United. You know its bad when people are constantly saying it was better than the game at Everton, playing with 6 men would have been better! We looked dangerous without ever threatening the goal. Fred is the new Anderson, lingard now defines average, rashford has turned greedy, De Gea has turned in to Joe Hart. Every year seems to be turning in to a rebuilding year.
I am not body shaming him but Luke Shaw didnt look like a stereo typical footballer last night. Was it bad lighting or an unflattering shirt that made him look more thick set than usual?
Luke Shaws body shape seemed to be providing regular amusement for the City fans judging by the chants.
I'm amazed Pogba made it into the PFA Team selection. He doesn't deserve to be anywhere near it. Neither does anyone else in a United shirt.The present United squad is stuffed full of mediocrity. The scary thing is how much we've paid for that mediocrity.
re: Pogba, I thought this was an excellent read, about marquee midfielders who 'don't turn up':
http://breakingthelines.com/player-analysis/paul-pogba-and-mesut-ozil-victims-of-a-weak-link-sport/
TLDR: Pogba plays as well at Utd as he did for France in the WC, it's basically the likes of Fred, Jones and Lukaku making him look crap.
I dont buy in to this theory that other players make you look bad. If other players are bad then you will stand out plus how do other players make you do terrible passes and jog back slowly. If it looks like a bad footballer and plays like a bad footballer then its probably a bad footballer. Pogba shouldnt even make the PFA reserve 11. I think player of the year awards at United are going to be difficult to pick this season.
De Gea usually wins it doesn’t he? The reserve goalie looks pretty good whenever he plays so give it to him.
I dont buy in to this theory that other players make you look bad. If other players are bad then you will stand out plus how do other players make you do terrible passes and jog back slowly.
Nonsense. If you're a playmaker with a striker who makes poor runs, or midfielders who can't read when to go, when to be 3rd runner, when to sit etc or full backs who don't overlap, then you're gonna look shite. Fact.
Football is very much a team sport, even Messi needs runners, not just too pass to, but to take defenders away.
TLDR: Pogba plays as well at Utd as he did for France in the WC, it’s basically the likes of Fred, Jones and Lukaku making him look crap.
The sine qua non of a great player is that they make other players better. It is the absolute quality that all midfield leaders have - pedestrians like Nicky Butt and Phil Neville have a cupboard full of medals becuase they played with men of this calibre in Utd sides of the past.
If you're saying that Pogba is being brought down by the likes of Phil Jones and Lukaku pretending to play football then you may be right, but in doing so you're defining him as a non-elite midfielder. A follower. This sounds about right, tbh - he's really good, good enough to play midfield in a serious CL side, but he can never be the MAN in that side.
Pogba shouldnt even make the PFA reserve 11
I didn't rate him at all when he first came to United. Lazy, self interested, strolling ego, first touch so good his second is a tackle.
Then I watched him, over and over. He is never going to put a shift in defensively. He'll never chase or hassle an opponent. His touch sometimes goes awol. But the man can pick a pass. I've lost count of the number of times he's played a peach of a ball only for Rashford to fail to see it coming and react, or have it bounce 20 yards off Lukaku, or have Martial demand to know why he took the entire defence out of the play instead of playing it to feet.
He's not my kind of player in the same way Mezut Ozil isn't but as long as you've got a Kante or similar to pair him with, to cover his weaknesses, I'd have him in my team anytime.
The comparison with Ozil is a good one. He’s another who can be a absolutely brilliant or completely anonymous depending on whether he’s in the mood or not.
Pogba can be brilliant at picking passes. His diagonal ball through to Rashford to score against Spurs was sublime. Inch perfect. But far too often he just looks like he’d rather be somewhere else and is just aimlessly jogging about, stopping to punt another ball straight out of play
You look at the Other players on that list and they’ve been consistently brilliant all season and turned up for every single match and delivered
The passes weren't bouncing off Lukaku in the world cup when they were made by De Bruyne and Hazard.
For the PFA team of the year, Hazard has been far better than Pogba, but is a different kind of midfielder. De Bruyne and Eriksen are in the same mould, but do everything he does well at least a little better, but do so much more as well, both put on proper shifts for the team. De Bruyne has been injured most of the season so can't be in the team of the year, but Eriksen has the same vision and abilaty for passing, is great on deadballs, and has been consistent throughout most of the season, he hasn't just shown up for a handful of games when it suited him.
His diagonal ball through to Rashford to score against Spurs was sublime. Inch perfect.
Those passes are made by the city midfield every game and nearly as much by Liverpool, doing it once a season at city and liverpool might get you an inclusion into the early rounds of the league cup, it would take an injury crises to get you onto the bench for a PL game.
It's interesting that he was deemed good enough to start in a Champions League Final and a World Cup Final.
The reason I stumbled across that article was because I was pondering the similarities between Pogba and Ozil - who both looked incredible as they won world cups, and then took flak for being not good enough when they were dropped into clubs that - frankly - were a step down. Did they actually get worse?
Pogba was also criticised at Juve for being patchy and going missing sometimes - but he had one of the best defences in the world behind him, one of the greatest midfielders of all time alongside him as a mentor, and they were winning so nobody cared. He wasn't expected to carry the team.
He’s not my kind of player in the same way Mezut Ozil isn’t but as long as you’ve got a Kante or similar to pair him with, to cover his weaknesses, I’d have him in my team anytime.
This sums it up IMO. I reckon Pogba would not struggle to get game time at City or LFC.
Incidentally - what's going on with Jesse Lingard recently?
I reckon Pogba would not struggle to get game time at City or LFC.
I think that is bull, one thing Pep and Klop have always shown in their management careers, is that mercurial talents don't fit in with their philosophies. That talent must be matched with work rate and a team ethic.
It's quite a simple formula really, if you have an average team but work harder than everyone else, you will have above average results. If you work harder and have more skilled players, you win trophies. United have skilled players, who aren't willing to match the oppositions work rate, and that is exemplified by Pogba.
Maybe there is an argument to say that in the Liverpool or City team, he would up his work rate, but we are talking about his actuall performances this year, not theoretical performances that might happen, and on that showing, he wouldn't be on the bench for city.
Eriksen has the same vision and ability for passing, is great on deadballs
As a Spurs fan I agree with what you say, apart from the deadballs bit.. he's been awful at freekicks etc for a few years now.. amazing with a moving ball, rubbish when he's got a bit of time to think about it.
Pogba being in the Team of the Year is a joke. Penalties aside his stats aren't great. Probably biased, but I'd have the dramatically improved Sissoko, as well as several other centre mids ahead of him.
The passes weren’t bouncing off Lukaku in the world cup when they were made by De Bruyne and Hazard.
Different team, manager who was well aware of what he can do and what he can't (ask any Everton watcher). Why do think Jose put Fellaini next to him?
Those passes are made by the city midfield every game and nearly as much by Liverpool,
While they've got players capable of doing it, I don't see them doing it, because that is not Pep or Jurgens style.
Different team, manager who was well aware of what he can do and what he can’t (ask any Everton watcher). Why do think Jose put Fellaini next to him?
I wonder what will happen with Big Rom - he's at such a low ebb at the moment, basically the punchline to a joke and his own fans hate him, that it's hard to appreciate his qualities.
I watched him a lot at Everton and have to admit I didn't realise how bad he was at playing football (perhaps because we played a more counter-attacking style at the time, which is right in his wheelhouse, and Martinez didn't care about pressing).
Like it was clear he wasn't blessed with a silky touch, had trampolines for shins in fact, but it was nowhere near as bad as it's been at Utd and his other attributes were on display any how.
He's like a throwback to an 80s style centreforward who does nothing all game except score two goals. Don't think there's room for that type of player at the very top level any more. Can't press, can't pass or link play, can't retain the ball to relieve pressure or build in the final third, can't physically unsettle centre halves because he's a fourteen stone fanny, no aerial threat. But still lashes it in the old onion bag on the reg.
Think it would take someone prepared to structure their entire team around him, with a very complimentary set of players, if he is to have an elite sort of career from here - seems unlikely IMHO.
Town to derail the Scousers tonight. You heard it here first.
I wonder what will happen with Big Rom –
I hope he finds his place. I suspect he needs an agent that doesn't blow smoke up his shorts. Then he needs to be allowed to figure out what kind of player he is. He's been different things under different managers so much that I suspect he doesn't know which way is up. For some reason he bulked up for the World Cup, I suspect someone told him to in the hopes it would help him not get outmuscled by defenders 2/3rds his size. Didn't work and he lost speed and endurance. When I look at him I think about the fact that Thierry Henry was a defender until a manager decided he wasn't very good and tried him out as a forward. Despite every manager telling him he was a defender. I wonder if Lukaku is really a winger in Graeme Sharpes guise.
While they’ve got players capable of doing it, I don’t see them doing it, because that is not Pep or Jurgens style.
Ederson has got two assists this season.
Ederson has got two assists this season.
De Bruyne has played some lovely long balls, too. Not as many as he probably would under a different manager. Pep likes his fullbacks to come inside the wingers but that doesn't mean they never go outside, just not as often as they would under a different manager.
Good summary of Lukaku Garry Lager! Some players just don’t look like footballers do they, but his goal record is very, very good.
Sturridge starting tonight......plenty of ambling around and lots of 40 yard shots?
Lukaku is basically a bigger, clumsier Emile Heskey.
When he turned up at the start of this season he’d bulked up so much I thought he was thinking of switching career to heavyweight boxing
Scores waaaaaay more goals than Heskey. Much better finisher than Rashford too.
Nice first half, going well. My lad went for 4-0, I went for 5-1. At this rate I can't see either of us being correct.
but his goal record is very, very good.
He's a weird one stats-wise. Had his best year the last season with Everton, ithink it was, scored 24? Scored 12 last year, 10 this.
He bangs in multiples against a few smaller teams. In fact until he scored a penalty last year (I think) he hadn't scored against a top 4/5 team at all. Don't think he did this year either.
Just adds to his mystique.
The only striker who seems to score regularly against the top 6 is Aguero. He’s phenomenal.
Heard an interesting stat the other day that the 6th most goals against the top 6 is not by a premier league player...its Messi.
Heard an interesting stat the other day that the 6th most goals against the top 6 is not by a premier league player…its Messi.
He's certainly up there. It would be interesting to know how many games that took, Barca play English sides quite a lot in the Champions league.
Aguero has good numbers against the top 6 but hes been around 9? Years and on good teams. Vardy, Kane have good numbers against top 6 on lesser teams and for less time. Hazard too.
I think there is a difference between scoring regularly against top 4/5/6 teams and basically never doing it. If you are your team's striker and not scoring against your biggest rivals for top positions, it doesn't bode well for your team
Phil Foden has scored as many league goals against top six teams this season as Mo Salah - one!
Nobody seems to want these last two Champions League spots, do they?
Since Poch said it was a 4 team mini-league, everyone involved has been chucking points away left, right and centre. I can see Arsenal losing to Leicester tomorrow then us and Chelski drawing
I'm just going to leave this here...
COYI!
First team to win at Emirates, first team to win at Tottenham.
COYI!
I think someone has sent Bielsa a memo telling him Leeds shouldn't actually go up this season.
https://twitter.com/SoccerAM/status/1122486526473064450
WTF? Play to the whistle!
"the one thing you have to say about city is that they haven't conceded a goal in second half stoppage time all season"
Oddly, not the one thing that leaps to my mind. Great statting though!
City weren't at their best today, looked a bit tired but still deservedly got over the line. Last week I think it was said that with their cup runs they have so far played 7 more games this season than Liverpool, and with a couple of big weeks behind them no wonder they wasn't at their sharpest.
interesting Leeds clip but I think the Leeds team of the '60s & '70s would have scored 3 goals with a man down.
Leeds of the 60s and 70s would have headbutted a few more on the way through.
It's not like it is a golden rule that you kick the ball out when an opposition player is down, sometimes it happens sometimes it doesn't, usually dependent on if you have a goal scoring opportunity developing or not.
However in that case it did look like they had stopped play and kicked it out to the goal line only for a couple of Leeds players not to get the memo. So I can see why the Villa players were irate.
What happened after anyway, did Leeds allow them to get a goal back?
The only players I could see slowing down looking for the easy option were Villa ones. The lad on the wing briefly pauses, but all his team-mates are urging play on. Villa then start a ruck over it and Bielsa inexplicably orders the goal to be given back (which it was). Could affect who they get in the playoffs. Crazy.
Best in the world De Gea .... apart from the last 4 games 😂
It’s not like it is a golden rule that you kick the ball out when an opposition player is down, sometimes it happens sometimes it doesn’t, usually dependent on if you have a goal scoring opportunity developing or not.
I think it more depends on severity of injury. A head injury will almost always have the ref stopping play anyway, likewise a proper bad 'body' injury (leg breaks, etc.), but then there's some where it looks innocuous and the ref waves play on only for the nearby players to realise.
The argument in this case was that Villa had kicked the ball out a few minutes earlier when in a good position, and Leeds didn't reciprocate.
What happened after anyway, did Leeds allow them to get a goal back?
Yep - straight from the kick-off (which had been delayed due to the melee after the Leeds goal). All the Leeds players just stood still and let them score (apart from Pontus Jansson and he was roundly bollocked by the rest of the team). Bielsa (the manager) told them directly to let them score which was astounding especially as we needed to win the match to stay in with a shout of automatic promotion.
So far, looks like spurs treated the quaters against city as a final, and they are unable to lift themselves to that level again.
Looks nothing like the team that beat City. Too much deference.
I'm feeling lots of love for Ajax and their passing.
Spurs schooled a bit tonight and lucky to be only one down? Obvious I guess but the absence of Son and Kane was massive.
Obvious I guess but the absence of Son and Kane was massive.
This is where my sympathy starts to fall apart, you as a manager has to have a plan B for just in case them guys are injured. I understand it can't be a like for like swap of course, but you need 'something' other than a couple of young wing-backs as your plan B (admittedly the right back did well though). Spending squillions on a stadium is great... but you need the squad to back it up too.
I was watching and they were saying about the new Barca signing the sold for £75m after paying £500k for him.... Then wondering "who was bought for the least/sold for the most" Coutinho must be up there, signed for £8.5m and sold for £130m.... I guess it depends on whether you're using multiples of initial purchase, or actual £££ difference. Who else is there who made massive profits?
Little J is torn tonight - Coutinho was his fave player!
Fingers crossed Bobby is fit & Jurgen picks Keita to become Messi's new best friend forever or at least 90minutes.
🙂
Weeksy - Son and Kane bring out is like two of Firmino, Salah and Mane being absent. Irreplaceable.
To be honest I’m not sure Spurs expected to get as far - the money spent on the new stadium should allow more to be spent on players in the future. Although this hasn’t worked for Arsenal!
Weeksy – Son and Kane bring out is like two of Firmino, Salah and Mane being absent. Irreplaceable.
Yes but in Liverpools scenario for example, you'd have Sturridge, Origi, Lallana, Oxlade, Keita/Shaq, etc... In City's you'd have a similar set of options...
To be fair we were also missing our first choice centre mids, Winks & Sissoko (at the start), as well as another attacking threat in Lamela.. leaving Eriksen and Alli the only 2 available first choice players in our front 6. A full strength Spurs would have beaten them last night, after Sissoko came on it was an even game (after the schooling in the first 30).
Sissoko did really well i thought...
Weeksy - have you seen Sturridge and Origi recently? They are not comparable at all! Shaqiri seems to have fallen out with Klopp and Lallana is not up to standard required.
Even City’s don’t have like for like - Jesus is not as good as Aguero although you can pick 2 from Sterling, Sane and B Silva and not lose any quality.
Weeksy – have you seen Sturridge and Origi recently? They are not comparable at all! Shaqiri seems to have fallen out with Klopp and Lallana is not up to standard required.
Of course they're not comparable to Mane/Salah etc.... But they're never going to be as they're not 1st choice... But, they're a reasonable alternative and that's the best you can expect of course... but Spurs 'backup' left me thinking "maybe you should have spent some more on players"
I think the spurs medical staff have questions to answer on Vertonghen's head injury. The ref was clearly concerned, I have never seen a ref being so thorough and persistent, bypassing the coaches and checking then confirming again with the medical staff that he is fit to continue. Then only 60 seconds later he is dry hurling and having to be carried away.
Sissoko did really well i thought…
He's arguably been our player of the season - gone from being a joke/scapegoat to one of the best CMs in the prem this year.
But they’re never going to be as they’re not 1st choice… But, they’re a reasonable alternative and that’s the best you can expect of course… but Spurs ‘backup’ left me thinking "maybe you should have spent some more on players"
But if you took Mane, Salah, Shaqiri and Origi out of the situation, then Liverpool's bench wouldn't be left with too many quality options. This is what happened to Spurs by losing Kane, Son, Lamela and then Janssen being illegible (think this is due to the rule of Dier and Davies not being counted as homegrown). Leaves us with Llorente, Alli, Eriksen and Lucas Moura playing. Liverpool would only be left with something like Firmino, Sturridge, Lallana, Oxlade playing and not much left on the bench?
Read on a football forum that UtD were speaking to Rio about a director of football position and thought it was a joke tbh - along the lines of Utd approach Eric Djemba-Djemba for first team coach role. Reported in all the mainstream sports pages, though.
Helpful in a way for Utd fans who may not quite have come to terms with how fked the club is right now. Hoping that things might turn themselves around. Things are not ever turning themselves around under an executive leadership who think Ole and Rio can run a football team.
Helpful in a way for Utd fans who may not quite have come to terms with how fked the club is right now.
I don't think any of us are under any illusions. And haven't been for quite some time. This has been the direction of travel since the Glazers took over. Fergie managed to paper over the cracks for a while, but when the owners are far more interested in sponsorship deals in Malaysia than they are about what's happening on the pitch at Old Trafford, this is where you inevitably end up
I heard the Rio/Director of football thing and the phrase 'clutching at straws' springs immediately to mind. We're truly ****ed while the people who own the club are as clueless as this lot.
I'm expecting the now standard unfocused, scattergun approach to transfers this summer where we spend serious money without any kind of strategy as to how they're going to play together, but as long as the replica kit sales hold up....
It's bloody depressing
I'm looking forward to tonight and watching two teams playing great attacking football, both of whom are so far away from where we are, they are literally in a different league
I think the spurs medical staff have questions to answer on Vertonghen’s head injury
I think the head injury thing should be assessed by an independent doctor and if that doctor deems they shouldn't play on then I think they should be able to substitute them without it using up one of the teams 3 allocated substitutions. I'd also allow a temporary sub so there is no pressure to rush to judgement, maybe even mandate that the player must be off for 10 minutes to allow a proper assessment.
maybe you should have spent some more on players
Wasn't Spurs last signing in Jan 18?
Yes Poch has improved them individually & as a team, but it's all about strength in depth these days & outside of their starting eleven there is very little competition for places.
I don't think united's problems can be blamed on the Glaziers not splashing the cash in the past few years. IMO maureen damaged the club far more than anyone cares to admit, it was a massive mistake (panic decision when city got pep) and his ego has destroyed any club ethos and joy, not just in the playing staff but also in background.
IMO there is a big Edwin van der Sar shaped hole for sporting director, they need to go all out to get him in, he is more than credible, and would be welcomed by the fans. They should have done so before confirming Ole as manager.
On spurs depth, yes they don't have the depth of some, but I think the Liverpool supporters are way overestimating what their team would be without Mane and Sala.
Should be a blinder, this.
Just wondering when it stopped being pronounced as the ‘new-camp’ and became camp-now’?
Oh Christ on a bendybus!! Steve ****ing McManamanamanamanaman commentating on a Liverpool match?
What a joy!
Bit of an odd game, both sides have forgotten how to play football.
Six hundred goals! SIX HUNDRED!!! 😳
And what a finish?! Unbelievable! The greatest player ever?
Yes. No question.
Yeah I’d say so Binners. That many goals in the 1950s would be exceptional, let alone now!
Harsh scoreline on Liverpool this but you gotta take your chances.
If you’re a 30 goals a season striker then you’re something special. He’s got 48 so far this season, 12 in the champions league. And he does it week in, week out, year after year
Incredible!
Odd that he and Barca haven’t been on it in the Champions League for a few seasons - until this one obvs.
and there have been 30 (or 40, or even more) goals/season strikers but they seem to be out and out strikers. Andy Cole for example, was a predator pure and simple but Messi creates, dictates, conducts, manipulates, AND scores goals.
Messi must be from another planet, rarely fails to deliver. Saw him live a few times and almost its freaky what he does with a football.
I really enjoyed the game & my team were spanked. Barca were brilliant.
Absolute ambush/rope a dope - If lfc had scored in the second half when they had them under pressure maybe their heads would have dropped?
But Messi, oh my gosh what a free kick. Perfection.
&! I though it was a mistake to bring on Origi when Alexander-Arnold has been a consistent provider of assists all season.
Always next year , but you never know...
😉
I find it really hard to be unhappy after what was mostly a brilliant performance from them, plenty of chances, plenty of the ball, plenty of great play... but a 3-0 stuffing... feels a bit unfair, but that's the game.
I was laughing at the commentary, "messi really shouldn't be scoring from there"... I'm not exactly sure what Allison could have done differently ! It was simply a stunning free-kick.
Onwards to the next one !
