[Closed] So you think you know about Scotland?

As a lapsed Scotsman I don't understand the obsession an overwhelming number of Scots seem to have with whether or not people know anything about or care about the country. Interest has to be earned, it is not a right or a privilege.

The whole independence thing, well it boils my piss.I have yet to hear a coherent or positive argument in its favour - the arguments I have heard have been based on fairy tales, prejudices and negative sentiments.

The thing about the Whingeing Scots is that unless they are careful they will annoy the English, who will not unreasonably cut the country loose - and then the People's Republic north of the Border really will be in dire straits. And I wouldn't blame the English for doing it for one second.

All that said, there is some nice scenery.

The only one I 'knew' the answer to was number 3, as I know the Stephenson was an Englishman and the other two Scots, but only cos I like old engineering stuffs and that. 😳

The others, I can honestly say, are about subjects which fall outside of my personal sphere of inertest. Scottish history has never bin of much significance to me, as a Londoner, because my cultural experiences and references come from anywhere but Scotland really. That's not to say Scotland isn't 'important', but tbh stuff like Spanish, Asian, West Indian and African cultures have more visible influence on life down here. I am aware that the work of figures such as Alexander Graham Bell, John Logie Baird and Alexander Fleming have made an incredible impact on the lives of people here and globally, as has the work of the great Kenny Dalglish, but it's rare that such great figures are recognised as Scots, more often 'British'.

I think Scotland should be recognised in terms of the incredibly disproportionate amount of great people, ideas, inventions and movements, far more than it currently. is. As an Englishman, I should not be so ignorant of the significance of a country which is in Union with my own, and one [i]I've never even visited[/i]. Indeed, many of my friends have never visited Scotland, yet have been to all corners of the Earth.

Scotland does need to work on a few things though, such as parochial and sectarian attitudes and that, cos that puts people off visiting, tbh. I've known a fair few people who've visited and bin abused by Scottish people, and even Scottish friends of mine have spoken about the animosity towards the English. Granted this is the behaviour of a minority, but it's quite off-putting.

And I feel Scotland needs to work on it's image a bit more; the tartan and bagpipes, whilst obviously part of Scotland's culture and that, are a bit outdated and twee now really. I mean, if I think of Scottish music for example, I can't get much past Wet Wet Wet, The Proclaimers and Sheena Easton. That's not good, is it? 😐

Oh and sort out your flipping weather. It's crap.

wwmtbr.

I think you may need to change that argument slightly from "overwhelming" to "small number of gobby". As we've been annoying the English for nigh on.... erm....most of recorded history. Don't you think someone "dahn sarf" would have added it all up and made a decision?

When I think of Engand and the English, these are the things that spring to mind,

Bowler Hats
Morris Dancing
BNP
EDL
Ignorance
Arrogance

As a Scot who has lived both in the North and South of England, I would in my personal experiances not live doon sooth as it seemed to be populated on the whole by educated idiots or just idiots.
To be honest I found it more akin to some places that I have lived in the US, where a great majority of the population had never been outside of their state and based their opinions on the what the TV and Press told them.
Just my tuppence worth, I now live in Wales.

That's quite a well written article (though I think his choice questions is suspect). I think it puts into perspective the Scottish "chip". However, it misses one fundamental change - Scotland has be one a more confident and forward looking place since devolution. I reckon that not being able to blame "the English" for all of our woes has helped and for this reason, as much as any other, I'll happily support a move to(wards) full independence.

PS - I have a policy of completely ignoring all posts by Elfinsafety, but on this occasion I would like to put down a marker as almost completely agreeing with his comments above.

And I feel Scotland needs to work on it's image a bit more; the tartan and bagpipes, whilst obviously part of Scotland's culture and that, are a bit outdated and twee now really. I mean, if I think of Scottish music for example, I can't get much past Wet Wet Wet, The Proclaimers and Sheena Easton. That's not good, is it?

For some more recent examples that have had a minor impact, Franz Ferdinand and Snow Patrol. Heard of those? Plenty others. And The Proclaimers are awesome. 😉

I lived in Lincoln for a wee while a number of years ago. My perception of the majority of english people is based upon my experiences of that which is probably quite harsh (no necked, chinless inbreeds with a penchant for the banjo). 😉

Scotland's culture and that, are a bit outdated and twee now really

Red london buses, bowler hats, jellied eels, pearly kings and queens and union jacks - right back atcha southern man 😉

All culture is twee and don't underestimate the pulling power of a kilt - worked on my wife anyway.

Of course as a another lapsed Scot (Yorkshire these last 19 years) I tend to think of Scots culture in terms of RL Stevenson, Walter Scott, Robert Burns, Iain (M) Banks, Ian Rankin etc. Telford, Watt, Kelvin, Baird, Dunlop etc. Adam-Smith and the general gang who invented economics.

And don't forget who invented bicycles - you owe us mtb types 😀

Snow Patrol is pushing it a little and you forgot Susan Boyle 😉

What's EDL?

I didn't know that many, and I spend a lot of time in Scotland - not sure how many Scottish people would know half of them either.

As an Englishman, I should not be so ignorant of the significance of a country which is in Union with my own, and one I've never even visited. Indeed, many of my friends have never visited Scotland, yet have been to all corners of the Earth.

See, I find this really bizarre - people are so keen to travel the world but there are amazing places right on their doorstep they never bother with.

I love Scotland, go there for a trip several times a year - I do agree the tourism industry in Scotland can be a bit cliched and cheesy though (not that this doesn't happen elsewhere too - I know how touchy Scots are 🙂 )

Scottish country pubs are in general not up to the standard of English ones IME. Not as much good beer and weird decor/atmosphere in quite a few of them. I'm sure this will upset some but that's how I find it. Music-wise it's nice that there is still a popular folk music tradition in Scotland, even if the standard bagpipes are an assault on the ears. The smaller ones are nice though.

Ahh grumm, good beer. One of the reasons I now live in Yorkshire.

What about AC/DC. The young brothers from Glasgow Bon Scott from Kirrimuir

That Biffy Clyro aren't just scottish, they're[i] incredibly[/i] scottish. Ginger and pasty and everything.

Have to say, I'm doing sufficiently badly in the test that I'm not going to finish it, just in case I get deported.

Jimmy Krankie was Scottish.......Nuff said

What a ridiculous set of questions, set by a smart-arsed pillock. 🙄

When I think of Engand and the English, these are the things that spring to mind,

Bowler Hats
Morris Dancing
BNP
EDL
Ignorance
Arrogance

stw bulb end of the week.

Didn't really have a clue about any of the questions and I have lived there all my life 😯 Well, til 3 yrs ago when I was kidnapped and relocated to deepest darkest Hertfordshire. How many Scots [u]would[/u] know the answers???

Find England quite Olde Worlde. "You can't walk there and you can't launch your kayak on that river" and buying a house is a nightmare! All that "Ooh, I changed my mind" malarkey and not even putting a sign board up. What's that about? And why can't I buy ice-cream from Sainsbury's at 9pm on a Sunday night?!? But I'm finding the little green footpath signs very useful. Don't have those in Scotlandshire. But really, it's all the same island isn't it and we all ought to be a little less territorial.

And if you haven't been to Scotland, take your bike there soon, it's fab 🙂

The thought of independence terrifes me. What's wrong with the current system? I'd like to think that if it comes to a vote people will come to their senses.

Trailmonkey, +many.

I can sit by the banks of a loch while the rain is pouring & still smile (like I did most of last week, by Loch Carron)
I wish I was Scottish, living there.

Jimmy Krankie was Scottish.......Nuff said

Yeah but they were man and wife, but she was dressed up as a little boy. 😯

Disturbing. 😐

[img] [/img]

Fandabby what? More than wrong....

esselgruntfuttock - Member
I wish I was Scottish, living there.

In 2003, "Wee Jimmy Krankie" was voted "The Most Scottish Person In The World" by the readers of The Glasgow Herald.

😆

One day Druidh, one day.

Inbred853 - Member

When I think of Engand and the English, these are the things that spring to mind,

Bowler Hats
Morris Dancing
BNP
EDL
Ignorance
Arrogance

As a Scot who has lived both in the North and South of England, I would in my personal experiances not live doon sooth as it seemed to be populated on the whole by educated idiots or just idiots.
To be honest I found it more akin to some places that I have lived in the US, where a great majority of the population had never been outside of their state and based their opinions on the what the TV and Press told them.
Just my tuppence worth, I now live in Wales.

This has to get the vote for ignorant narrow minded tool of the month surely?

Some awesome irony and hypocrisy in one post.

What's EDL?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Defence_League

Basically a load of plonkers.

[img] [/img]

Got them all right 😀 but then I am a history teacher....and Scottish.

I knew one (odd one out) and had an educated guess at another two (Northernmost town and memorials). Other than that, no idea, but that's less because "I don't know anything about Scotland" and more that they're questions outside of the sort of thing I'd know about anywhere.

As for Scotland's 'image', we've no room to talk as England's 'image' is essentially London.

EDL looks like a better funded,less ginger settlerwatch.

Forgot about them, perhaps Inbed853 is a member.

Inbread853 you are a total ball-sack

No hang on right, because look:

I would in my personal experiances not live doon sooth as it seemed to be populated on the whole by educated idiots or just idiots.

I live in the South and I am in fact a [i]complete idiot[/i]. And so is my wife.

But Elfin you're not even married!

I rest my case! 😀

The thing about the Whingeing Scots is that unless they are careful they will annoy the English, who will not unreasonably cut the country loose - and then the People's Republic north of the Border really will be in dire straits. And I wouldn't blame the English for doing it for one second.

Please feel free - you could enact it in the same legislation you use to leave the European Union!

I bloody love livng down South (I may have mentioned that), and I also like visiting my ancestors in Perthsire. Inbred is the type of Scot that keeps me down here. That and the weather.

i wouldn't worry too much about inbred853, i've been reliably informed on this forum that anti anglo bigotry does not actually exist so he must merely be some kind of mass hallucination that we're all experiencing.

The English

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Rees-Mogg

We all wear Kilts and chase haggis round hill you lot are all like this.

Freedom!!!!!!!!!!!!! 😆

aaaaaaaaaggggggggghhhhhhhhhhh, busted.

we are in fact all like william rees mogg - tally ho.

To be fair i think the media have a lot to answer for!!!

I am english & england is rubbish.
Why?
Because you can't get Wee Beastie doon here, thats why.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wee_Beastie

Seems like you can't get 'wee Beastie' anywhere anymore, mos:

This drink has now been discontinued and is no longer being produced.

Ah well.

As for Jacob Rees-Mogg:

In 1997 he was Tory candidate for the historically Labour seat of Central Fife. He canvassed a largely working class neighbourhood [b]in his Bentley with his nanny[/b];[4] he lost in the 1997 election, receiving 9% of the vote.

Who ever said the Tories aren't in touch with ordinary people? 😆

What's EDL?

😆

Qualitage.

As an Englishman, I should not be so ignorant of the significance of a country which is in Union with my own, and one I've never even visited.

You almost make it sound as if someone else is to blame for your ignorance.

'My aunt lives in Scotland, she says it's quite nice'

😉

BBSB - tremendous, good work.

You almost make it sound as if someone else is to blame for your ignorance.

No I don't think I do actually. I think the fact that I live in a city with five airports, plus things like the cheapness of flights to exotic places abroad, and that I understand it's a bit cold and wet in Scotland, has meant that I've preferred other locations for holidays. Scotland is also very spensive for accommodation and that, so that's another factor.

I agree that things are very London-o-centric down here, and maybe not enough recognition is given to Scotland (or indeed Wales and Norn Iron).

I will freely admit that Scotland is not very high on my list of places to see. Expensive, generally crap weather, a common perception that some Scots are hostile towards the English (reinforced by anecdotal evidence), a culture very close to the one I already know, nowt really in the way of food and drink that's particularly exciting (a wee dram is nice mind), and nowhere near the wealth of art and architecture available in other places.

Few years ago I had the option of visiting Edinburgh or Barçelona. It was a no-brainer.

Apparently, it rained in Scotland more or less the whole time I was in Spain, enjoying the sun....

I'm happy for people to try to convince me Scotland is a place well worth visiting though.

nowhere near the wealth of art and architecture available in other places.

TROLL

I'm happy for people to try to convince me Scotland is a place well worth visiting though.

It's not a troll. London alone has a greater wealth and diversity of architecture than all of Scotland put together*. And on these terms, would you compare somewhere like Glasgow or Edinburgh to Barçelona, Paris, Rome, Prague? New York?

From my home, I can be in one of the aforementioned Yerpean cities in less time than it would take me to get to Scotland by train, certainly, and a fair bit cheaper to fly to.

I'm merely making the point that for me at least, other places are more appealing.

Maybe they are better at promoting themselves....

Why? Scotland's great and you coming here probably wouldn't improve it any.

Nice. Thanks. You're really selling it....

*Prove me wrong.

I will freely admit that Scotland is not very high on my list of places to see. Expensive, generally crap weather, a common perception that some Scots are hostile towards the English (reinforced by anecdotal evidence), a culture very close to the one I already know, nowt really in the way of food and drink that's particularly exciting (a wee dram is nice mind), and nowhere near the wealth of art and architecture available in other places.

Oh dear...

It's funny, you might think someone interested in mountain biking would be interested in seeing some of the most stunning scenery in the world (and yes I've travelled reasonably extensively thanks). I guess not. Edinburgh and Glasgow are both pretty culturally vibrant too. AND Scotland in general is more 'progressive' politically than England (well the south anyway).

The dozens of European, American and Asian tourists you see in the more popular bits of Scotland seem to be enjoying themselves BTW.

i'd rather visit scotland than london.

Sorry elfin, i'm being honest here, me no likey london.... i've given it many chances, visited lots of different parts of it for lots of different reasons.. but i always go home and breath a sigh of relief when i get away from it

i had a horrible holiday in scotland when i was a kid and haven't been back since, so i'm thinking i should probably give it a second chance.

Grum; I've mountainbiked in Yerp, America and Australia. One thing I do like is nice weather. Whilst I'm sure Scotland has many uniquely wonderful experiences to offer me, so do other places, and they're more appealing TO ME PERSONALLY.

I'd like to visit Scotland at some point, sure, but as I've said, it's not that high up the list for me. That's not to say it ain't worth visiting, just that I'd naturally be drawn to other places.

Of all the people I know in London, not many of them have ever visited Scotland. They have however visited the four corners of the rest of The Earth.

So, is it just us? Or does Scotland need to work on it's PR a bit more? This ain't a dig at the place, merely questioning how we can see it as more appealing.

i'd rather visit scotland than london.

Sorry elfin, i'm being honest here, me no likey london.... i've given it many chances, visited lots of different parts of it for lots of different reasons.. but i always go home and breath a sigh of relief when i get away from it

Fair enough. An honest onion, I've no problem with that. I always love coming Home, but then we're all diffrunt, in't we? Which is good, no?

Of all the people I know in London, not many of them have ever visited Scotland. They have however visited the four corners of the rest of The Earth.

I genuinely find this very sad - oh well, their/your loss I suppose.

So, is it just us? Or does Scotland need to work on it's PR a bit more? This ain't a dig at the place, merely questioning how we can see it as more appealing.

Nah it's just because people are swayed by the glamour of going on expensive foreign jaunts and taking environment wrecking long haul flights, rather than looking at the glorious beauty available on their doorstep. It doesn't sound as impressive to **** on about a camping trip in Scotland as it does about an amazing beach party in Thailand or whatever. 😐

Scotland is also very spensive for accommodation and that

Prove it. It can be as expensive or as cheap as you like.

Expensive, generally crap weather, a common perception that some Scots are hostile towards the English

Cheaper than London. 'Some people are hostile to some other people' - you live in the East End don't you?

a culture very close to the one I already know, nowt really in the way of food and drink that's particularly exciting

Evidently not the case on the culture front. Dissing Scottish food and drink? Get over your own preconceptions.

nowhere near the wealth of art and architecture available in other places.

You really do have no idea about this do you?

would you compare somewhere like Glasgow or Edinburgh to Barçelona, Paris, Rome, Prague? New York?

Yes - yes I would.

You are a Cockney Troll and trolling quite hard. Please book a thread where you and TJ can fight over the North South divide for our amusement.

Fair enough. An honest onion, I've no problem with that. I always love coming Home, but then we're all diffrunt, in't we? Which is good, no?

we're all different indeed, i'd be out of a job if people weren't different!

Why? Scotland's great and you coming here probably wouldn't improve it any.

Nice. Thanks. You're really selling it....

Glad you think so, but what surprises me about this thread as a whole is the general idea that Scots give a monkeys about what the English think. I don't, why should I? Why do you think I'd be remotely interested in "selling" it to you? You've never been here yet feel qualified to comment on it - fair enough - talking shyte about things you have no experience always was one of your specialities.

BTW - do you still live in the East End, or have you and your family been relocated to make way for the toilets at the sponsors bar?

That's OK Elfin, it's not mandatory to like Scotland, we don't mind if you choose not to visit.

But back on topic, didn't somebody quite smart say something about history being written by the winners ?

I was amazed, being from the Colonies, about how much more I knew of British History than British folk are taught in school about any of the Colonies. And we saved your arses in at least two wars.

See, I think you've nailed it there Grum.

I genuinely find this very sad - oh well, their/your loss I suppose.

It is, it is, I'm sure. I've had some very kind offers to visit from people on here, and must really make the effort to come up, see it for meself. But you must appreciate that for most folk, holidays are a luxury, and you're gonna think carefully before spending money. If somewhere else offers 'better value', then we'll probbly go there.

One thing that does appeal to me about Scotland is that there are some really nice folk on here what live there, who I'd be more than happy to ride with. So I'm not being completely negative.

(although I suppose one could argue that New Zealand history is shorter thus takes less time to learn !)

Elfinfred lives in an East End pit but doesnt think Scotland is worth a visit.

This where I grew up

[img] [/img]

Then I moved here

[img] [/img]

...and went climbing here

[img] [/img]

hels - Member
(although I suppose one could argue that New Zealand history is shorter thus takes less time to learn !)

Elf - shame most of your prejudices are wrong. For example Edinburgh has at last as much sun as London. Scottish food can be great - some of the best seafood in the world which is why none of it goes to London - mostly to France and Spain where its appreciated.

Its culturally and politically different from the south of England. Having lived in London as well as Scotland I know where I prefer - yet you have closed your mind to Scotland despite never visiting.

Git yer ass on a train. Only takes a few hours / few quid. Open your mind

Barçelona,

i learnt everything i know about scotland from the documentary 'Braveheart'

there's a disproportionate amount of ginger people and as an added insult they're not allowed to train with real weapons, just logs and stones. also i didnt notice any helmets apart from robert the bruce who was a baddy, and the english who are all baddies and rapists.

mcboo - Member
Elfinfred doesn't think Scotland is worth a visit.

To be fair, if you live in the SE then Scotland really [i]isn't[/i] worth a visit - as Elf said, it's far cheaper/quicker to travel to Europe and have a holiday in a completely different culture/environment.

That's not being anti Scot, just geographally aware 😉

it's far cheaper/quicker to travel to Europe

You can get to Glasgow on a train from London in 4 and half hours - not too many places in Europe you can get to quicker than that.

Prove it. It can be as expensive or as cheap as you like.

Whenever I've looked into travel and accommodation in Scotland, it's always seemed very expensive compared to other places.

Cheaper than London. 'Some people are hostile to some other people' - you live in the East End don't you?

Yes I do, and I find most people I meet are fine. Fancy that, eh? I'm sure I'd find the same in Scotland, yet the myth of [i]some[/i] Scots being unfriendly towards the English is a bit off putting, and there are people on this forum that don't help to dispel this myth, it has to be said.

Evidently not the case on the culture front. Dissing Scottish food and drink? Get over your own preconceptions.

Sorry, I'm not feeling the 'Scottish food and drink' thing much. Granted, I am ignorant in this respect, but I've never seen a 'Scottish' restaurant anywhere I've ever bin (nor have I seen any specifically 'English' ones for balance). Apart from Aberdeen Steak House. Does that count? I'm merely stating that for me personally, food and drink isn't something where Scotland has a particular appeal. Apart from the whisky....

You really do have no idea about this do you?

Well having studied stuff about architecture and art, and having a keen interest in those subjects, if I were looking for a holiday which involved these aspects, I'd probbly look elsewhere first.

You are a Cockney Troll and trolling quite hard. Please book a thread where you and TJ can fight over the North South divide for our amusement.

Glad you think so, but what surprises me about this thread as a whole is the general idea that Scots give a monkeys about what the English think. I don't, why should I? Why do you think I'd be remotely interested in "selling" it to you? You've never been here yet feel qualified to comment on it - fair enough - talking shyte about things you have no experience always was one of your specialities.

See, all I'm doing is expressing my honest onions, as Phil has done re. London. Notice I don't have a problem with him for that? I'm not attempting to insult Scotland or Scottish people at all, far from it. i'm merely being open and straightforward with my views.

I think it's a shame you can't take my comments for what they are, and instead try to twist things into a personal attack on me. I'm sure if this were someone else saying such things you'd not be quite as hostile...

That's OK Elfin, it's not mandatory to like Scotland, we don't mind if you choose not to visit.

As I've said, I find it regrettable that I don't know more about Scotland, it's history, it's culture and it's people. And that I don't feel more inspired to visit what others think is a wonderful place. I genuinely wish I shared their enthusiasm, and am looking to try to develop a greater personal enthusiasm for a country right next to my own. In the same way that I love North Wales, for example.

That's all. I hope at least someone can understand what I'm going on about....

Fair enough Scotland isnt cheap. If you want cheap, take yourself on a trip to Benidorm, soak up the local culture in the company of our Iberian cousins. And enjoy the local cuisine, I hear they eat something called Sausage and Mash, sounds lovely.

You will be missing out on this though.

http://www.airds-hotel.com/content/page.php?page_id=0&sub_id=6

Sorry, I'm not feeling the 'Scottish food and drink' thing much. Granted, I am ignorant in this respect, but I've never seen a 'Scottish' restaurant anywhere I've ever bin

It's more about the great ingredients that are available locally in Scotland - game, seafood etc - some of the best anywhere.

Glad you think so, but what surprises me about this thread as a whole is the general idea that Scots give a monkeys about what the English think. I don't, why should I? Why do you think I'd be remotely interested in "selling" it to you?

Scots can be a bit touchy can't they ;). I like my area of England and want to show it to friends from down south etc who've never been and go on about it being 'grim up north' etc - I imagine some Scottish people (the ones who aren't touchy) might feel the same.

BTW there's lots of bunkhouse/ youth hostel accomodation in Scotland that can be had for pretty cheap, or B+Bs often aren't crazy money either.

Well having studied stuff about architecture and art, and having a keen interest in those subjects, if I were looking for a holiday which involved these aspects, I'd probbly look elsewhere first.

[img] [/img]

Super-mega-ultra faaaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiil.

See, all I'm doing is expressing my honest onions, as Phil has done re. London. Notice I don't have a problem with him for that? I'm not attempting to insult Scotland or Scottish people at all, far from it. i'm merely being open and straightforward with my views.

I think it's a shame you can't take my comments for what they are, and instead try to twist things into a personal attack on me. I'm sure if this were someone else saying such things you'd not be quite as hostile...

I mean it's not like your past behaviour would suggest you were a wind up merchant.....

Do you need a themed restaurant for the food to interest you? Quite a poor level of food appreciation, but if you need that sort of thing, fair enough. I've found the best restaurants reflect their surroundings and locally available produce, but you are the well-travelled one here.

mcboo - you saved me the time by posting CRM's picture - thanks.

Fred - more than just I think you troll and this is further evidence. You have no knowledge (evident in this thread) of Scotland and have never been there, yet gob off about a lack of this and no appeal of that. What do you think it reads like?

Elfinfred lives in an East End pit

Fair enough. 😆

but doesnt think Scotland is worth a visit

Where did I say it 'wasn't worth a visit'? I din't.

[img] [/img]

😉

Fred - more than just I think you troll and this is further evidence. You have no knowledge (evident in this thread) of Scotland and have never been there, yet gob off about a lack of this and no appeal of that. What do you think it reads like?

I think you're seriously misinterpreting what I'm actually saying.

I'll reiterate:

When choosing a holiday, Scotland does not feature high in my list of possible destinations, due to my perception that there is little to appeal to [i]me[/i] in terms of what I look for when [i]I[/i] travel.

I am willing to accept that I am ignorant of the place, yet I am open to having my onions about the place changed. Hopefully this could happen if I were to ever visit the place.

Just because I'm honest about it's lack of appeal TO ME PERSONALLY, does not make it a place 'not worth visiting'. I have no great desire to visit a number of places, yet appreciate that other do. As I said, we're all diffrunt.

I'm not attempting to insult Scotland or Scottish people at all, far from it. i'm merely [s]being open and straightforward with my views.[/s]expressing an opinion on something i know nothing about. Again.

<<waves at mcboo>>
born there too. gf stays near methven so spending a lot of time there the noo.

I'm sure if this were someone else saying such things you'd not be quite as hostile...

Elf. £114 4 hrs 15 on the train return. Where else you going to get to that cheaply that quickly? thats city centre to city centre not to some godfawsaken place like luton
🙂

come open your mind

Methven! You know the village shop? Used to be a Spar? My great-uncle Sandy Cross (war hero, joiner) built that with his own hands, ran it for years. He's buried in the cemetary beside the Crieff Road.

Methven (wipes tear)