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Or will he wait until Assad is firmly back on the throne?
He's played the west perfectly, Brexit was a brilliant gift for him, he just needs LePenn to do his work in France and the EU will be right where he wants it
Bearing in mind that Clinton's email hack came from Russia.
Trump has claimed that he wouldn't necessarily honour the NATO pact?
Ernst Stavro Blofeld s got nothing on Vlad!
Putin has already got his troops in place, NATO are concerned enough to put 300,000 troops on stand by
http://theweek.com/speedreads/660322/300000-nato-troops-are-high-alert-face-russia
I'd say either Ukraine or the Baltics. Maybe not by Christmas but it's certainly on the cards...
Not this Xmas but certainly next Xmas.
I remember the Cold War "joke"
What's the definition of a tactical nuclear weapon?
One that lands in Germany!
Could Trump make as big a mess as previous presidents? Look at the Federal debt, the middle East.
Maybe the guys a genius.
I don't think we've seen any geniuses in control.
I think Putin would probably want to wait till Trump takes office, which isn't until 20th January 2017.
Quite likely 'subversive' propaganda to make sure defence budgets can be maintained and future weapons projects are justified.
With of course the additional benefits of instilling fear and worry and further dependence on the minority in power across all aspects of society; not to mention 'divide and conquer' of the populous.
Whilst the internet and social media have been a platform for the masses to communicate and coordinate, news stories of government inspired hacks, lack of security, again helps to reign in the social potential that technology is providing.
Not a conspiracy theorist per se, but it all does make me wonder sometimes
I assumed he was already there.
You lot aren't doing a very good job of cheering me up.
What a load of crap: -
Brexit was a brilliant gift for him, he just needs LePenn to do his work in France and the EU will be right where he wants it
Lolz. Clearly you can read his fiendish mind.
Bearing in mind that Clinton's email hack came from Russia.
No. [url= http://thesmokinggun.com/documents/crime/how-john-podesta-got-hacked-839125 ]Ukraine[/url]. After Podesta lost his phone in a cab. Ukraine, Russia. Close enough though, eh comrade?
Trump has claimed that he wouldn't necessarily honour the NATO pact?
Why is this Putin's fault? I spilled my coffee this morning, do I blame Putin?
Putin has already got his troops in place, NATO are concerned enough to put 300,000 troops on stand by
Have a look at [url= 
]a .gif of NATO's encroachment of Russia[/url]. And you criticize Putin for the perfectly reasonable step of [i]moving troops within his own border[/i]? How about everyone chills the **** out instead? Starting with NATO. Then Russia. Hopefully Trump can get NATO to chill the **** out, then everyone can get around a table as equals. Is that so bad?
Why would Putin want to be in Ukraine by Xmas? I suppose you think Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014. If Russia wanted to take Ukraine they could be in Kiev in 3 days. You really think Putin (or Obama / Trump) would risk [url= https://consortiumnews.com/2016/11/08/reasons-to-risk-nuclear-annihilation/ ]WW3[/url]? I suppose over a [url= http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-refugees-idUSKCN0HW0UP20141007 ]million Ukrainian refugees[/url] were forced at gun-point (all led by Putin [i]personally[/i]) to 'flee' to Russia too?
Instead of 'speed reads', perhaps you read something other than the news equivalent of a cartoon book with chewable pages; [url= https://consortiumnews.com/tag/nato/ ]enlighten[/url] [url= https://consortiumnews.com/tag/ukraine/ ]yourself[/url].
He's played the west perfectly,
No he hasn't he has been watching from outside the window in the cold and rain, his folleys in the Crimea and Syria may play well to a Russian crowd but they are not a threat to the west, his country is bankrupt and getting worse while he spunks money on games. His latest show of power, a decrepit aircraft carrier with a tug in case it broke down again, sailing through the channel was laughably sad.
I have no doubt he is a psycopath, and that makes him dangerous purely because of his nukes. But nothing that is happening in the world to the detriment of western powers is his doing, we are bringing this shit on ourselves.
Ah, Schnor - the influence of Trump already...
- Disputing others opinions as worthless. Check!
- Being insulting about the capabilities of others. Check!
- Presenting own position as indisputable fact. Check!
Only racism, mysogyny and expressing attraction to own offspring to go!
Soviet Union & Russia - now they are synonymous...
Well Obama is Commander in Chief for another 100 days, so I suspect Putin will wait till Trump is in power before invading....
100 days, Ok in by Easter then 😉
As for the email hack .... Well it wouldn't be the first time that Russia has attacked the west from Ukraine and tried to blame them, flight MH17 for example.
Only racism, mysogyny and expressing attraction to own offspring to go!
Please, don't stop on my behalf. But thank you for being offended on behalf of someone else; its very STW (and insulting me whilst objecting to an insult, [i]plus[/i] a Trump dig = STW cubed!).
Well it wouldn't be the first time that Russia has attacked the west from Ukraine and tried to blame them
You're quite right. Russian operatives could very well have used a Ukrainian proxy to hack Podesta's account and gone "Look, the IP is from Ukraine, not us". My point being is that the 'Russian Hacker' narrative is nowhere near as simple as "The Russians did it", because [i]there is no proof Russia did it[/i]. They might have done, but there is no [b]proof[/b].
Re. MH17. Again, you're right, Russian forces could have 'done it'. I'll keep it brief. Where is the proof? John Kerry (US Sec of State) said repeatedly in the days after the tragedy that U.S. intelligence had detected the launch and knew [b]exactly[/b] where the missile came from.
So, why did the Dutch Safety Board after a lengthy investigation still not come up with anything more exact than a 320km square area? If the Obama administration had solid evidence showing that the launch came from rebel territory, which was Kerry’s insinuation, U.S. officials would have been only too happy to provide the data. They didn't. Why not? And ask yourself why was Putin being blamed personally, literally minutes after the crash.
Again, my point (eventually) is that nothing is as clear cut as it being [url= http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/07/22/its-putins-missile/ ]"Putin's Missile".[/url] (a nod to the Sun's infamous headline).
BTW, sorry for my grumpy first reply - nothing personal.
Please, don't stop on my behalf. But thank you for being offended on behalf of someone else;
Hey, I didn't say I was offended. More pointing out the obvious.
insulting me whilst objecting to an insult
Come on, I didn't insult you at all. I made three observations about your post that aligned with 'Trumpism'.
Kind of related as the whole thread relates to potential action by the Russian government as a result of Trumps election.
Let me be clear though - the rest of the Trump comparison was not meant to be taken as a serious insult to you - more a topical and timely jibe at Trump himself. I should have made that clearer and didn't. If you took it as such, I apologise.
friend recently attended a wedding in the Ukraine, somwhere a long way from Kiev... about 4 hours by car. anyway, in his hotel he met a load of British squaddies.
turns out they are there providing training to the Ukrainians.
things are still on the boil in the west of the country.
remember watching a talk by a think tank (Chicago Think Tank?) where they were saying that the area stretching from the Ukraine down to Syria is where WWIII will take place and it may not be too far away in the not too distant future.
Putin has already got his troops in place, NATO are concerned enough to put 300,000 troops on stand by
Why on earth should NATO Intervene in the Ukraine?
No worries jamj1974 🙂
alpin raises a very interesting point; US / UK forces can support Ukrainian forces and everything is peachy, but when Russia supports pro-independence forces (essentially native Russians) in Donetsk / Lugansk it's "Russian aggression".
Meanwhile Kiev still hasn't implemented [i]any[/i] parts of the [url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11408266/Minsk-agreement-on-Ukraine-crisis-text-in-full.html ]Minsk agreement[/url] but bizarrely Russia always gets the [url= http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31514295 ]blame[/url] for 'violating' it. Please everyone, read it, the points are quite clear - and it doesn't even mention Russia once!
Finally, ninfan also brings up an excellent point. Ukraine [i]isn't[/i] a member of NATO, it's still after all these years never been explained to me why NATO are building up troops there.
It's nuts.
If only Hillary had one, she'd have gone to war with Russia no doubt. What a missed opportunity!
That Gif is rubbish, it may have escaped your attention that Russia occupied those countries at the end of the WW2.
Why on earth should NATO Intervene in the Ukraine
There's a lot of NATO countries in that area that are veeeery worried, namely Poland and the Baltics. Last year Poland doubled its defence budget!
Why on earth should NATO Intervene in the Ukraine
Ukraine requested NATO assistance after Russia annexed Crimea?
Ukraine had applied to join NATO but Russian stooge yanyukovich ditched the plans, they've since requested again
Speak to a Ukrainian, they are very concerned about Russian plans for their country
Have a look at a .gif of NATO's encroachment of Russia
Russia is huge, countries in NATO cover what, maybe 15-20% of its land borders?
Countries previously under the Russian sphere of influence seem very keen to join NATO at the earliest opportunity, its almost as if they have experienced something and do not want a repeat?
Aracer posted this on the Trump thread but it's all connected, man
As @muppet says Putin is already in Ukraine, he is controlling half (?) of the country - Crimea is now Russian plus a big chunk of Eastern Ukraine and the fighting has never stopped. Vicenews has been following the story whilst most press oitlets have stopped.
The West has used everything from signals intelligence operations, espionage, fighter jet saber-rattling, and diplomatic standoffs to stem the rise of Russian influence around the world. These efforts are coming to a dangerous head in Ukraine — a classic Eastern Bloc proxy state — where the presence of NATO troops is driving tensions to Cold War-era levels.As the armed conflict between the Ukrainian army and Russian-backed separatists enters its third year, VICE travels to the frontline to take a closer look at what international assistance really looks like for those caught in the line of fire.
Putin's move into Ukraine was a direct result of intereference by the EU/European countries and overtones to have them join EU & NATO. A foreign policy disaster. As usual Europe looked to the US "to do something" and Obama said (quite rightly) "your problem, you sort it out". Trump is going to be much more reluctant than was Obama to get involved.
Putin is well aware Europe is weak, unless it's a direct attack on a NATO member he knows that any responce will be pretty much non-existant. The ex Lithuanian defence minister was on Newsnight yesterday boasting how they will have increased defence spending from 1% to 2% by 2018. The US spends 3.6%. Europe thinks it's safety is the US's responsibility.
Europe isn't weak militarily, it's weak because there is no will for war. Most people haven't forgotten the last century and are extremely reluctant to get involved in conflict. Sanctions would have more impact if enforced but we keep buying the gas.
I'm working on the principle that at the rate we're collectively regressing, we can expect the first border skirmishes with Yorkshire before the week is out.
So I've just installed two of these on the battlements, and I'm presently boiling up oil....
[img] 
[/img]
So? That's like trying to take out car insurance the day after a crashUkraine requested NATO assistance after Russia annexed Crimea?
You mean the democratically elected president who was unconstitutionally ousted in a coup? (Yes, check it out, the constitutional process was not followed)Ukraine had applied to join NATO but Russian stooge yanyukovich ditched the plans, they've since requested again
Speak to a Ukrainian, they are very concerned about Russian plans for their country
You don't think that Crimea/eastern Ukraine should have a right to unilaterally declare independence from Ukraine and join another federation... interesting.
OK, I've used up my 30 mins for lunch on this. For starters Russia didn't 'annex' Crimea. Crimea voted [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_status_referendum,_2014 ] overwhelmingly[/url] to rejoin Russia after a [url= http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/05/chronology-of-the-ukrainian-coup/ ]western-backed putsch[/url] - with even [url= http://www.globalresearch.ca/head-of-stratfor-private-cia-says-overthrow-of-yanukovych-was-the-most-blatant-coup-in-history/5420978 ]stratfor[/url] calling it "the most blatant coup in history" - which saw the (admittedly) unpopular but democratically elected President being ousted.
Ukraine had applied to join NATO but Russian stooge yanyukovich ditched the plans, they've since requested again
No. Ukraine only wanted to join NATO [i]after[/i] the putsch. The [url= http://sofiaglobe.com/2013/11/22/ukraine-eu-suspension-order-was-economic-move/ ]vote[/url] back in 2013 related to Ukraine wanting economic ties to Europe (as opposed to keeping ties to Russia). Ukraine haven't [url= http://uatoday.tv/politics/ukrainians-to-decide-on-joining-nato-by-referendum-poroshenko-540156.html ]even voted[/url] to join NATO yet.
They voted no, which was apparently the wrong answer. Remember [url= http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957 ]Victoria Nuland?[/url] '*** the EU', 'yats is the guy' and the Freedom cookies? Look at the dates; 04/02/14 - the putsch was on [b]22[/b]/02.
Re. criticisms of the .gif. How about [url= 
]this[/url] instead?
And why would so many countries want to join NATO? Could it be to do with the billions of dollars of military assistance? Indeed, historically, Poland has always disliked Russia so any chance for a thumb in the Russians eye would be popular.
Anyway, is there any [b]evidence[/b] Putin wants to invade Europe? Why would he want Latvia? What's [i]in[/i] Latvia he wants so much?
jambalaya - Member
As @muppet says Putin is already in Ukraine, he is controlling half (?) of the country
Whut? Personally?! [url= ]Look[/url] at the map of Donetsk + Lughansk. And you haven't provided evidence that it's Russian controlled. Speaking of which it's been 2 years and i've still not seen any evidence of Russian troops in Ukraine (other than the 'little green men' who were already stationed in Crimea in the naval base).
Incidentally, and it's a subtle point, the so-called 'rebels' aren't pro-russian. They're pro-independence. If they wanted to join Russia they would have voted to do so (like Crimea). Would some people here say the people of Donetsk + Lughansk have no right to self-determination? As ninfan rightly points out.
I couldn't watch video but does it mention neo-nazi's, or the 10,000 dead civilians in Donetsk and Luhansk (and don't even think about blaming Russia for them), or the dozens burned to death or shot by snipers in Kiev? How about NATO's promise not to expand "not as much as a thumb's width further to the East"?
jambalaya - Member
[it] was a direct result of intereference by the EU/European countries and overtones to have them join EU + NATO
Exactly. Think for a second if Russia overthrew the Canadian government, started pointing missiles at the US, and started killing Americans living in Canada (amongst MANY other things). Would you expect the US to take it lying down? Why are people surprised with Russia has said 'enough'?
Russian aggression indeed 🙄
[edit]
Jeez I can't half go on can't I? 😯
I was wrong, he wants to be in belgrade by xmas
MSP - Member
...His latest show of power, a decrepit aircraft carrier with a tug in case it broke down again, sailing through the channel was laughably sad...
Aye, but Putin's carrier has actual planes on it....
That can take off and land again whilst carrying a very light load as they are very weight restricted due to the carrier design.
Ming the Merciless - Member
That can take off and land again whilst carrying a very light load as they are very weight restricted due to the carrier design.
Still better than our no-plane carrier...
And a 'light load' is still rather nasty when it's coming at you.
Russia supports pro-independence forces (essentially native Russians) in Donetsk / Lugansk
That's a strange way to describe shooting down a Dutch airliner
That's a strange way to describe shooting down a Dutch airliner
Please read [url= https://consortiumnews.com/2016/09/28/troubling-gaps-in-the-new-mh-17-report/ ]this[/url]. [i]Properly[/i] read it, not skim it.
Meanwhile...
I'd forgotten the newest smear. "Russian fingerprints"; very evocative and Machiavellian 🙂
So lets examine - in the Guardians own words - what fingerprints were found: -
Serbia deports Russians suspected of plotting Montenegro coup
Wow, the headline sounds like it's a slam dunk! But I wonder what's hiding at the bottom (where hardly anyone will read up to): -
A security analyst from the region, [b]who did not want to be named[/b], said [b]his understanding from intelligence sources[/b] was that the incidents in the Balkans were [b]probably[/b] linked to Russia
So most of the article is based on an 'unnamed source', who got it second hand from another unnamed 'source', that something is 'probable'. Clearly Putin himself was involved, personally.
Meanwhile 'Diplomatic sources' (far more believable than 'unnamed sources', but not 'intelligence sources') also say: -
A group of 20 Serbians and Montenegrins, [b]some of whom[/b] had [b]fought with Moscow-backed separatists[/b] in eastern Ukraine, were arrested in Podgorica, the Montenegrin capital.
Some? Is that a number now? Some? 1 is 'some'. So possibly 1 [i]not-even-Russian[/i] who were [i]associated[/i] with [i]someone else[/i] who was 'backed by Moscow'. This Putin fella gets around.
In Serbia, meanwhile, several Russian nationals suspected of coordinating the plot were caught with €120,000 and special forces uniforms.
Serbia? Isn't the story about Montenegro? How do they link the two other than being 'suspected' of something? Suspected how? So we've got 'several' (2 or 3 then) Russians suspected of something, being caught with cash and special forces uniforms. Whose uniforms? Is having cash (yes a large amount) indicative of some sort of assassination attempt?
I could be linked to the Hindenburg disaster less tenuously.
I recon Nicola Sturgeon is a Russian sleeper
I recon Nicola Sturgeon is a Russian sleeper
Don't be daft. It is clearly Give who is a Ruskie.
I could see Gove defecting 😉
but our government arent happy with Trump apparently aligning himself with Assad and Putin
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/12/trump-putin-alliance-sparks-diplomatic-crisis/
Indeed, and exactly like the German Defense Minister, who [url= https://www.zdf.de/politik/maybrit-illner/maybrit-illner-clip-1-100.html ]recently[/url] (The forum didn't like the link to a translation) wanted Trump to stay away from Russia, it looks like UK officials are following a similar tactic to convince him that Russia and Syria are the bad guys.
Except I don't think that will work, and for one reason; these people - unlike Putin or Assad - have consistently and publicly considered Trump to be a joke, showed him no respect, and never thought that he would become the next president. They are simply in a panic now, and that their anti-Putin and "Assad must go!" narrative will soon unravel.
Speaking of which (and yes it's a little OT): -
[img] 
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[img] 
[/img]
[img] 
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[img] 
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I wonder who is next?
[img] 
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[img] 
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Speaking of which (and yes it's a little OT): -
I see, so what you're saying is it's easier to get ride of western leaders than the one barrel bombing his own people!
No, I'm talking about the illegal attempts to remove the democratically elected leader of Syria, with those calling for that gradually having been removed from power democratically and legally.
Have some irony cheesecake, it's ****ing delicious.
And ah yes, barrel bombs. Those crude improvised devices supposedly dropped from helicopters are [i]far[/i] worse than the rocket-propelled bombs delivered from afar by jet planes or drones as done by the U.S. government and its “allies.”
Or the hundreds of thousands of tons of bombs on Iraq alone in the last ten years.
Or the U.S. bombs that involve depleted uranium, napalm, phosphorous and cluster munitions.
Or the U.S. assisted and directed slaughter of civilians in Yemen, ****stan, Somalia and Libya.
Maybe too the half million dead children in Iraq due to US sanctions? Well, *shrug* it's [url=
it[/url].
Such is the power of propaganda. Use a phrase like “barrel bomb” over and over again as if it is a uniquely evil weapon when, in fact, it is far less lethal and destructive than the ordnance that the United States routinely deploys or hands out to its “allies” like candy on Halloween.
Nah, lets all talk about the Syrian government’s use of “barrel bombs”.
if you believe roger scruton (ok, more like get his drift) Russian is poised to invade Sweden, Ukraine, the whole Western frontier. Troops along the border.
Nah, lets all talk about the Syrian government’s use of “barrel bombs”.
Who said you should do that? I certainly didn't.
Such is the power of propaganda. Use a phrase like “barrel bomb” over and over again as if it is a uniquely evil weapon when, in fact, it is far less lethal and destructive than the ordnance that the United States routinely deploys or hands out to its “allies” like candy on Halloween.
Got it. Barrel bombs are the nicest bombs.
Ok, so nothing besides smart arse comments.
Besides, it's the American bombs which are the nicest and it's the Syrian and Russians bombs which are the worse-est. I'm not [url= http://www.bild.de/politik/ausland/mossul/es-gibt-gute-und-boese-bomben-48465954.bild.html ]joking either[/url] (will need translating too): -
The most popular and successful sentence of state-run propaganda is "There are no good or evil bombs."What that means is that the bombs of the US-led coalition ... are no better than the Russian bombs ...
This ... sentence is dumb, wrong, cynical and dangerous.
And this is effectively repeated whenever the media reports on any bombing. US = Good, Syria / Russia = Bad.
I happen to think [b]all[/b] bombs are bad.
Schnor you are a bit heavyweight around Russia vs West. I'm lost for words about your style, ... a bit heavy-handed. Didn't you know Mr P is the right bastid?
Granted he outsmarted many elite world politicians but boy he is no saint.
Rumours surfacing again that Vlad might be ill, stepping down next year?
Will he want to go out in a blaze of (nuclear) glory, or just settle for whiling away the days with a nice (Black) Sea view?
I can't help thinking schnor has been here before under a different guise.
Why on earth would anyone try to defend despots like Putin and Assad? Might as well try to support Robert Mugabe as well, he was democratically elected, but he's destroying his own country and enriching himself and his cronies in the process.
Seeing as some of you [i]still[/i] aren't getting my point (deliberately or not, I don't know) I will put it simply.
I am calling out hypocrisy and selective outrage - both here and examples in the corporate media. Let's summarise the thread as I see it: -
Poster. Accusation are made connecting Putin to the possible invasion of Ukraine
Me. Corrects errors in the OP, asks poster to clarify accusation.
Poster. Ignores my points and makes slight variant on original accusation (the possible invasion of somewhere else)
Me. Corrects errors in second post, points out the hypocrisy and provides counter examples (the US being responsible for [u]half a million dead iraqi children[/u])
Poster 2. Ignores my points and makes [s]smart arse[/s] trite comment
Me. Calls poster 2 out on trite comment and makes additional points
Poster 3. Ignores my points and calls me a Putin-bot (and a Mugabe-bot too 🙄 )
If pointing out that the US has carried out atrocities and wars of aggression which are [i]by an order of magnitude [b]worse[/b][/i] than Russia makes me a Putin-bot then so be it.
Why aren't people taking about the US spreading death and disaster wherever they go? Why the obsession with Putin? Or do some people genuinely not see this hypocrisy?
The flip side to this is if some people get butt-hurt when I call them out on their comments, BS or selective outrage then that's too bad.
Now, that being said popstar made very well a good point about my tone, so I’ll do my best to take it down a notch or ten; the last thing I want is to put people off from posting on the thread.
The bear limbering up for the inauguration of President Chump?
Or (to keep schnor happy) proportionate response to NATO missile defence shield deployment in eastern europe
I think we are well aware that out involvements in the middle East have been bad for everyone going back to the crusades and and latterly the devil's bargain we made for Saudi oil, that doesn't mean that I don't think Putin's Russia is dangerous, they are after all repeating our own mistakes becoming involved in Syria.
[img] 
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they are after all repeating our own mistakes becoming involved in Syria.
They seem to have picked a side that can win and have a strategy that's working for them. They appear to have avoided our mistakes.
They seem to have picked a side that can win and have a strategy that's working for them. They appear to have avoided our mistakes.
Im sure we declared victory in Iraq, Libya etc etc several times
Im also not sure that picking a side in the brutal sunni/shia sectarian war in the middle east is a wise idea
meanwhile in budapest
https://www.ft.com/content/66d3993a-b0b8-11e6-9c37-5787335499a0
While Russian support for far-right groups in Europe has been widely rumoured, the recent events in Hungary have brought to light new evidence of Moscow’s long-running attempts to cultivate far-right extremists.
Most significantly, Hungary’s national security committee has since confirmed that the MNA’s members openly trained with Russian diplomats and men dressed in Russian military intelligence uniforms.
Re: Barrel bombs. From my understanding it is not that there are good bombs and bad bomb but the problem that barrel bombs are not very accurate and cause more unintended casualties.
Oops, I didn't notice the few earlier posts.
Re. the telegraph link, the Russian DoD said predominantly the missiles are 'defensive', similar to the NATO 'defensive' missiles all lining up pointing at Russia.
But I completely accept your point; now [i]isn't[/i] the time to be ratcheting up the missiles - 'defensive' or otherwise - even if they are within Russia's borders (or rather its exclave). I certainly think Putin is getting ahead of himself in anticipation of, and thinking he can get away with things, before Trumps inauguration in the assumption Trump will support him.
Re. Budapest (I'm not an FT member so can't see the full link). Looking into this further it [url= http://index.hu/belfold/2016/10/28/russian_diplomats_exercised_with_hungarian_cop_killer_s_far-right_gang/ ]looks like[/url] the oldest source of this story is classic heresay, citing the famous and oft-present "anonymous security sources", then repeated word for word on some Ukrainian websites, then the FT. I think fake news is for another thread though 😉
Anyway, [i]if[/i] true playing around with airsoft guns with far-right freaks is bad, but no more unacceptable than the CIA [url= https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/cia-begins-weapons-delivery-to-syrian-rebels/2013/09/11/9fcf2ed8-1b0c-11e3-a628-7e6dde8f889d_story.html ]training[/url] and [url= http://edition.cnn.com/2013/09/12/politics/syria-arming-rebels/index.html ]supplying[/url] Syrian [s]rebels[/s] Al-Qaeda affiliates.
Or the CIA supplying Libyan [url= http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/06/world/africa/weapons-sent-to-libyan-rebels-with-us-approval-fell-into-islamist-hands.html ]'Rebels'[/url]. Someone once said words to the effect of "Libya is the cork from which ISIS will erupt out of Africa". Thanks Hillary 😐
Or funding [url= http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-hughes/the-neo-nazi-question-in_b_4938747.html ]neo-nazi's[/url] in [url= https://consortiumnews.com/2015/06/12/u-s-house-admits-nazi-role-in-ukraine/ ]Ukraine[/url].
And I could list a whole more list of US-funded screw-ups, which as I mentioned above are orders of magnitude worse than anything Russia does, but you get the idea 🙂
[edit] oops - exclave, not enclave.
[url= http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/04/tracking-syria-deadly-toxic-chemical-attacks-150417065804006.html ]Picture[/url] of a barrel bomb (well, 5)
Just 4 quick examples of US-weapons used in Syria: -
http://www.ibtimes.com/us-air-force-drops-record-amount-bombs-against-islamic-state-iraq-syria-1777616
http://time.com/3422702/isil-isis-syria-obama/
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/06/americas/u-s-military-isis-mediterranean/index.html
http://www.cnbc.com/2013/08/29/Syria-conflict:-The-hardware-the-military-will-use-to-strike.html
A [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Syrian_Civil_War_barrel_bomb_attacks ]list[/url] of deaths linked to barrel bombs. A rough questimate would be 12 per attack, with say 4 bombs per hit, a VERY rough guess would be 3 per barrel bomb. Compare this to ~400, 000 ?? dead in the conflict.
[edit]
An [url= https://off-guardian.org/2016/11/27/western-weapons-falls-into-the-hands-of-terrorists/ ]interesting article[/url] on the western-supply of arms to various terrorist groups. I'd have added it to my first post but was too late.
Im aware theres a missinformation war going on between the west and russia at the mo
and that in backing saudi weve been funding for decades the spread of the version of Islam at the core of ISIS
I wonder if the obama administration are trying to block damage the Trump-Putin relationship before he takes office
on Friday they officially announced that the Russian state was behind the hack of the clinton emails
which is kind of amusing because RT have been banging on for a while about how the american elections were rigged
I am calling out hypocrisy and selective outrage - both here and examples in the corporate media. Let's summarise the thread as I see it: -Poster. Accusation are made connecting Putin to the possible invasion of Ukraine
Me. Corrects errors in the OP, asks poster to clarify accusation.
Poster. Ignores my points and makes slight variant on original accusation (the possible invasion of somewhere else)
Me. Corrects errors in second post, points out the hypocrisy and provides counter examples (the US being responsible for half a million dead iraqi children)
Poster 2. Ignores my points and makes smart arse trite comment
Me. Calls poster 2 out on trite comment and makes additional points
Poster 3. Ignores my points and calls me a Putin-bot (and a Mugabe-bot too )
Clearly this thread is all about you! 😉
Personally, I think that I called propaganda on the first page with fewer words to justify my opinion 😀
Having said that, your contributions have been enlightening, thank you.
Im also well aware that ours & america's involvement in the middle east has led to nothing but violence for the last few hundred years
I still believe that Putin will take advantage of any possible avenue to expand Russia's politcal and military influence in eastern europe and beyond!
Trumps presidency looks to be the perfect opportunity Flynn has toured russia speaking and appears on RT as a (paid?) comenatator
Group hugs with slackalice and kimbers!
Re. the russian election hack, in fairness even Obama changed tack [url= http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/white-house-hackers-election-recount-231849 ]recently[/url].
[url= http://insider.foxnews.com/2016/10/18/president-obama-donald-trump-claiming-election-rigged ]Teh Prez: -[/url]
"There is no serious person out there who would suggest somehow that you could even rig America’s elections, in part because they’re so decentralised and the number of votes involved"
I've no idea what happened between early October - when everyone was insisting on blaming Putin - and mid-late October when it all went very quiet after Obamas beat-down. Maybe he realised people weren't buying it anymore. Maybe he didn't want to admit the election [i]could[/i] be hacked? *shrug*
Even the Russian 'fake news' hysteria from last week died down after 3-4 days, presumably most people didn't buy that either.
A quick google finds that Flynn appeared on RT several times in his capacity as a security analyst, between his military and political jobs. People don't get paid to be interviewed on TV but are on a list to get invited on if they're considered relevant to a certain topic, like train disaster investigator people getting interviewed when there's a train disaster, etc
Western politicians have been trying to use Putin / Russia to discredit domestic opponents. The US must be about the most anti-Russia nation on earth and the accusations of "Trump / Putin links" didn't help Clinton. They try the same in France saying Putin supports Front Nationale but as Le Pen pointed out the French banks won't lend to FN but Russians will, she'd be delighted to deal with the French banks.
If Europe wants to be strong against Putin it needs to get it's act together.
If Europe wants to be strong against Putin it needs to get it's act together.
And that's the rub isn't it?! It can't and it won't, despite its shared values and bits of paper. Too many individual interests.
If Europe wants to be strong against Putin it needs to get it's act together.
And that's the rub isn't it?! It can't and it won't, despite its shared values and bits of paper. Too many individual interests.
the sanctions agreed by the EU have had a large impact on their economy- along with the oil crash, forcing them into recession, that is expected to continue into 2017, unless they miraculously sign up to the Minsk agreement.
Is the American secret service lying?
Here's thought provoking for you!
I've also read the consortium news story about the investigation into the MH117 shooting.
It's main assertion seems to be that there no confirmation that a Russian BUK was in the area .
The analysis here puts a very good argument that the photos of the Buk there are the same as the one seen crossing from Russia the day b4 and returned minus 1 missile.
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2016/09/30/revelations-confirmations-mh17-jit-press-conference/
As I said before I've no doubt that there is a misinformation war being fought by both sides
Don't worry, C4 News says were sending 150 squaddies to Poland. Putin must be terrified.
Id just like to say that I got it totally wrong
Putin wasnt in Ukraine by Xmas
but he will be in the Whitehouse in a few days 😉
what happens after that though....
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-kremlin-idUSKBN15F0XI
and this
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-czech-cybercrime-idUSKBN15F1OS
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/31/russian-cybersecurity-experts-face-treason-charges-cia
and now this
http://uk.businessinsider.com/carter-page-trump-russia-igor-sechin-dossier-2017-1
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He is loving the chaos Trump and Brexit are bringing. 🙁
I wonder if we'll now suddenly see an outbreak of European nations suddenly beginning to fulfil their 2/20 NATO spending commitments?
😈
Indeed. Germany can find €20bn pa for refugees at short notice or €100bn for Greece but somehow the extra €30pa to raise NATO spending from 1% to the required 2% will "take some time" according to Merkl
I wonder if we'll now suddenly see an outbreak of European nations suddenly beginning to fulfil their 2/20 NATO spending commitments?
Yeah of course it's all to do with the military might squaring off against each other there. Guns, bombs and troops are not what is needed over there it's a better way to deal with Putin. There is enough collective strength in Europe to deal with him but foolishly the EU (Incluiding the UK) has let themselves become depenant on the Natural Gas flowing from over there.
Part of this stems form an energy security problem on the part of Europe which makes dealing with Russia difficult. But yeah rail on the NATO spending - remind me again what the EU should have done with the refugees? I seem to remember hugely evasive answers last time mostly around not that, something different, other stuff.
Almost a year on and my OP seems very naive.
Turns out that Putins doesn't need tanks and bombs, just bots and bank loans.
[b]Austria[/b]
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/europe-s-far-right-enjoys-backing-russia-s-putin-n718926
[b]AFD[/b]
http://time.com/4955503/germany-elections-2017-far-right-russia-angela-merkel/
[b]Brexit[/b] https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamesball/a-suspected-network-of-13000-twitter-bots-pumped-out-pro?utm_term=.vcamr47lRE#.fm6pa1XbgW
[b]Le Penn[/b]
https://www.ft.com/content/010eec62-30b5-11e7-9555-23ef563ecf9a
There's only winner from all of this
It's not even Adam Curtis's non- linear war, it's seeming quite linear tbh
The Brexit campaign was also given a (literally!) record breaking amount of money from a very suspicious source, suspected to be the ruskies