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Something else that is "dangerous" for us to eat...
http://news.sky.com/story/1576389/q-and-a-should-i-still-eat-processed-meat
A life without bacon is a life not worth living.
Evening. [b][u]NO[/u][/b]
Hi. No.
Indeed. Yet another scientifically led blurb about something people have been doing since the dawn of time is suddendly on the no list.
All I've got to say is... 1984. 😉
Can't do images really on tablet but info here is interesting.
[url= https://twitter.com/senseaboutsci/status/658679153097613312?s=02 ]https://twitter.com/senseaboutsci/status/658679153097613312?s=02[/url]
Something's going to kill me and if it's going to be bacon, then I'm totally fine with that.
Espresso, red wine, Nigerian Guinness and ...Bacon are my only vice 8)
Yes , 25 years ago.
I would rather live to 70 eating whatever the hell I want than eat healthy and live to 80 only to die of loneliness because all my friends died early from bacon related illnesses.
If I get proper ham and bacon from my local pork butcher who add nothing does this still count as 'processed'? Or at the extreme if I slaughter and butcher the pig to make them end product is this still 'processed'?
I'd prefer to die a bit sooner from bacon poisoning than linger into my 80-90's with Alzheimer's to be honest. Full English this morning, yum.
Pretty sure you can't get ham or bacon from doing nothing to pork. You might get rancid pork though if you leave it long enough.
Does this apply to proper bacon as well, or just the 5h1t you get in the US and the like?
Just cure your own bacon. Or go to a decent Butcher.
I'm going to continue enjoying the odd bacon sandwich or sausage stew but I'm not going to get all ukip about it on an internet forum.
1984 ffs.
I guess there are differing views as to what is "proper" bacon. I don't buy it much in the supermarket, but I don't remember any from the US being on sale - I think the supermarkets mostly stock British, Irish and Danish pork derived bacon don't they? (Honestly not sure, but I check the country of origin when I buy it, and haven't noticed any US stuff.)
I'm going to continue enjoying the odd bacon sandwich or sausage stew...
Pretty sure the advice is to limit consumption to a moderate level (which it seems, is the result of the distillation of advice on most food groups). I would have thought anybody with any consideration for their colon shouldn't need the WHO to tell him or her to go easy on processed meat. But I haven't read any advice saying to cut it out completely if you like it.
If I get proper ham and bacon from my local pork butcher who add nothing does this still count as 'processed'? Or at the extreme if I slaughter and butcher the pig to make them end product is this still 'processed'?
It's going to have salt added to it at the very least, that's kind of what bacon and ham is, and there are some claims of links between salt and stomach cancer. I seem to remember recent research suggesting that the negative effects of salt have been wildly overstated.
I'm about to head off to the Sauna. I need salt in my diet. Especially with biking on top of this..
the negative effects of salt have been wildly overstated.
I think that's the negative effects of a moderate salt consumption. It certainly got to the point that people were fearing a heart attack after a particularly salty cone of chips. 🙂
It's never a bad idea to keep an eye on consumption of it though, especially in the diets of babies & toddlers. Of course, if processed meats and food in general form a large part of one's diet, then one has lost a certain control over consumption due to the amount manufacturers "hide" (" " because we all read the ingredients lists don't we?) in the processing.
[i]I guess there are differing views as to what is "proper" bacon. I don't buy it much in the supermarket, but I don't remember any from the US being on sale - I think the supermarkets mostly stock British, Irish and Danish pork derived bacon don't they? (Honestly not sure, but I check the country of origin when I buy it, and haven't noticed any US stuff.)[/i]
If you don't know what I mean, then you've never been to the States. You won't see it on sale here, as it's beyond dreadful.
I think that it's the curing process, even traditionally, that is the problem.
After seeing my dad with bowel cancer I will definitely be reducing my bacon intake significantly. It's not about living til 70 instead of 80, it's about trying to avoid dying in agony aged 45.
If you don't know what I mean, then you've never been to the States. You won't see it on sale here, as it's beyond dreadful.
No, I've been to the states quite a few times thanks. And yes, I've an idea what you mean. I simply thought you meant we could buy that kind of thing here - probably similar to what passes for bacon at McDonald's.
Nigerian Guinness
An oxymoron, surely...
US bacon = streaky bacon, that's all. However they like to cook it till it's almost black all over, which is why it can often be a bit weird and.. crunchy...
Swedish bacon is way worse. Ugh.
Some better info here for those who prefer not to get their information through the media:
http://scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org/2015/10/26/processed-meat-and-cancer-what-you-need-to-know/?view=rss
As carcinogenic as tobacco?
I'm going to knock it back to no more than 10 rashers per day.
Yet another scientifically led blurb about something people have been doing since the dawn of time is suddendly on the no list.
Trolling or serious?
People have been eating bacon for centuries, as well as smoking, cockfighting and dying of lots of preventable diseases. Don't be a pillock just because something you like turns out to be bad for you.
At 7.5%, the Nigerian stuff packs a punch. Afaik, it's one of the most popular drinks in Nigeria and is brewed there as "Guinness Foreign Extra" or something like that. Probably best to moderate consumption of that stuff too. 🙂
[quote=scotroutes ]As carcinogenic as tobacco?
Well no - the CRUK link I gave has some good info on that. Those who consume the most processed meat have a 1% higher chance of developing bowel cancer than those who consume the least. Smoking makes a lot more difference than that.
As carcinogenic as tobacco?
We'll be slapping it on our arms as patches before long.
Nope, I will continue eating them but in moderation.
Well said molgrips.
As grown ups we're free to make poor lifestyle choices, but it's a bit childish to get all bolshy when it's pointed out to you that a full English every day is not the healthiest way to live.
it was an attempt at humour...aracer - Member
scotroutes » As carcinogenic as tobacco?
Well no
Well no - the CRUK link I gave has some good info on that. Those who consume the most processed meat have a 1% higher chance of developing bowel cancer than those who consume the least. Smoking makes a lot more difference than that.
1%! So barely any difference...
After seeing my dad with bowel cancer I will definitely be reducing my bacon intake significantly. It's not about living til 70 instead of 80, it's about trying to avoid dying in agony aged 45.
Really no, sorry about your dad but I very much doubt it has anything to do with bacon.
Says the 50 year old who has ways eaten bacon and other cured meats.
There will be another report in a few years time saying the exact opposite.
There is not an epidemic of bowel cancer in Europe where cured meat consumption is much higher than here.
From the [url= http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/type/bowel-cancer/about/risks/food-types-and-bowel-cancer ]horses mouth[/url] it doesn't sound as bad especially if you also eat fish, fruit, cereals, vitamin D, the odd yoghurt and don't drink too much.
But ZOMG! CANCER!!!1!!1!
There will be another report in a few years time saying the exact opposite.
I'll have a tenner with you that there won't. Excessive consumption of processed meat has been linked with higher cancer [i]risk[/i] for years. Of course, an understanding of that risk is key, and media sound biting doesn't lend itself to that. As can be pointed out as often as it will be ignored, the advice is to moderate consumption, not cut out bacon etc altogether.
How many days a week can I go to Greggs?
The WHO have put processed meat in the same category as smoking when considering how well the link between consumption and cancer has been proven, not for the size of the risk.
slowoldman - Member
How many days a week can I go to Greggs?
Once a week for me.
😛
How many [s]days a week[/s] times a day can I go to Greggs?
Fixed that for binners.
Mol grips did you really think I posted this with the express purpose of giving up bacon and radically altering my diet based on what I read rather than semi-ironic / humorous notification that might lead to a small bit of STW banter...
Old news. Eating quality red meat a few times a week is probably not going to make any difference. Eating crappy processed meat 3 times a day, is not good for you (shock, horror!) And may lead in an increased risk of bowel cancer.
Don't eat lots of processed food. Common sense.
If you have cheese with the bacon it cancels out the carsenginines.
Likewise gravy for red meat/sausages.
Moppy bread for the gravy then adds a further 10 years to your life per slice.
Had a racion of bellota ham tonight, surrounded by people doing similar. They all looked and sounded happy and no-one died. There's processed meat and processed meat. I'd like to see additional data on relative poverty, stress, alienation and unemployment, preservatives and additives.
kudos100 has it - lets face it, the curing process uses loads of salt, should be obvious to be at least moderate with it
I'd like to see additional data on relative poverty, stress, alienation and unemployment
I earn over the average wage, I'm naturally stressed, seen it - decent film, have been unemployed once. So, how long have I got?
Well firstly I'm not giving up bacon.
I gave up cigs, drink alot less than I have ever used too, eat a lot less bread as well.
I'm just not giving up anything else. Lets face it in 10 years time they will find out it was all bad for us and we should just eat grass and the odd furry animal. 🙄
I think the occasional can of Redbull does me far more damage than my bacon and egg sandwich on a Sunday morning.
Never eat processed meat, or much in the way of meat generally, apart from salami on pizza, and a kebab after a couple of beers a couple of times a month. Will I die? 😉
Never mind the carcinogens eating too much bacon is bad for your heart anyway.
I try and eat everything in moderation so this announcement will make zero difference.
[quote=b r ]1%! So barely any difference...
Lies, damn lies and stats. I have to admit I like using that 1% figure no more than I like the 18% figure most of the articles trot out. The best thing to do is give the raw numbers - according to the CRUK link, 56 people in every 1000 of those who have a low processed meat intake will develop bowel cancer, 66 of every 1000 with a high processed meat intake will develop bowel cancer. It's not a huge difference, but then if you do eat a lot of bacon and you're one of the 6.6% of that group who develop bowel cancer, you will be left wondering whether you might have been in the 94.4% group if your consumption had been lower.
The question is, what is the additional % risk for each rasher?
I've now also found the other stat I was after - bowel cancer appears to have a 60% long term survival rate (the 5 year and 10 year rates are the same, so it appears if you survive for 5 years you're in the clear). Hence eating lots of processed meat increases your chances of dying from bowel cancer by 0.4% (though another 0.6% are due a fairly unpleasant time).
Old news. Eating quality red meat a few times a week is probably not going to make any difference. Eating crappy processed meat 3 times a day, is not good for you (shock, horror!) And may lead in an increased risk of bowel cancer.
Red meat increases the chance of cancer too, just not as much as processed red meat. And they had a scientist on the radio this morning, the 'quality' of the meat makes [b]no [/b]difference to the risk.
Frying bacon as I type.
Everything in moderation accept filthy smoking.
...and the certainty of the link with causing cancer is slightly lower for unprocessed red meat, it's only a probable cause of cancer.
Drac - Moderator
Everything in moderation.
You would say that.
😆
When you say 'moderation'. I think 8 rashes from my butchers a week is right. Tesco's bacon releases a lot of white congealing matter. Eeee.
I doubt Tesco or your butcher makes much if any difference to the cancer risk.
In moderation and quality, avoiding overly processed foods, it's possible to go for bacon without all the other stuff added (just not the salt which is mostly discarded anyway) in the end of the day the byproduct of a longer life is more things to die from.
The white congealing stuff is just where it's been bulked up with water, it comes out when it's cooked. Since that means less red meat per uncooked gram, a half pound of the tesco stuff is arguably healthier than a half pound from the butcher.
Maybe but the Butcher let me hold two dead pheasants and let my son touch/talk about them. You don't get that in a non Local Butchers Shop (LBS) 😉
Did he pluck the pheasant?
Everything in moderation accept filthy smoking.
Exactly what the lady from the WHO said on TV
@hora, great your kid can understand food and where it comes from. I naturally eat less meat as a result of understanding where to comes from.
I would guess I eat red meat 2 or 3 meals a week. Tainkynwas a time when bacon and/or sausage sandwiches where the daily breakfast but a lot of that was stress related and Inwas looking for a feel good factor (bizarre as it's obviously the opposite effect health wise)
Chicken curry is good for me, right? Does having a beer with it make it even more healthy?
I work in colerectal cancer research, I get the rare pleasure of hanging out in operating theatres waiting for some poor sod to get a large chunk of their tumourous lower bowel removed,
Gather it up in a bucket, rush it back to pathology, and convince the pathologist to let me have some bits of the tumour so I can get it back to the lab and extract dna/rna
If we are lucky there might even be some secondary tumours from liver or other parts of the bowel etc, very useful for our research, very bad for the patient.
Patient info is anonymised but we get their ages and gender, males in their 30s or 40s arent as uncommon as you might think,
that's a tumour sitting in a small chunk of colon
[img] 
[/img]
Aracers right the cumulative chance of dying from bowel cancer thanks to red meat is relatively low and things have improved a lot, better screening, better characterisation, better treatment etc
However the treatment itself is very unpleasant and removing a chunk of your bowel leaves you crapping into a colostomy bag for the rest of your life and that's not fun for anyone
Jamby is also right processed red meat is also very bad for your heart
1% doesn't sound like much of an increased risk but on a national and international scale that's a lot of lives shortened
We certainly try to limit our red meat intake at home, but yknow I do like my bangers n mash!
Also of bizarre clinical note that if you have ulcerative colitis (a very unpleasant inflammation of the bowel) smoking is actually an effective treatment, of sorts
Is bacon really nice enough to increase the risk of dying early and in pain, its got no nutritional value to speak of, its expensive and killing stuff is all pretty unpleasant, why bother?
Is beer? Is mountain biking? Is driving? Is flying?
Etc
Killing stuff is unpleasant..
Right. Our presence on this earth results in the suffering and death of creatures, large and small including damaging the fabric of nature itself.
I'm going to continue enjoying the odd bacon sandwich or sausage stew but I'm not going to get all ukip about it on an internet forum.
1984 ffs.
Well put
Not exactly what I said hora.
Knock yourself out though, neither here or there really and not worth getting defensive about a slice of pig.
Depends. If we are talking about (proper) pork pies then yes, defensive, offensive etc 😀
[url= http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/10/06/worlds-oldest-woman-116-eats-bacon-everyday/73444660/ ]http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/10/06/worlds-oldest-woman-116-eats-bacon-everyday/73444660/[/url]
What's a proper pork pie though.
If you listened to all the advice about what not to eat, there wouldn't be much left on the list!
Moderation is the key!
Right. Our presence on this earth results in the suffering and death of creatures, large and small including damaging the fabric of nature itself.
You don't think Elephants do this? Or Termites? The think is, most life on this plan services by consumption of one or many things, not just humans.
And the 1984 reference, was a humorous left field hint at state control.
Processed food will be the death of our generation if eaten in quantity. Too much of anything can kill ya. The odd bacon sandwich wont kill ya but the evidence is presented by WHO to say if you eat too much of it, then you have a higher risk of dying from cancer. Go ahead eat bacon sandwiches every day, followed by a hamburger for lunch and MaccyD's for tea, stats show it will kill some of ya.
I see the bravado of youth in most replies, hey you'll live forever right?
/gets off soapbox and nips to Greggs.
I see the bravado of youth in most replies, hey you'll live forever right?
I think it's more like the cantankerousness of closed-minded middle age TBF.
😉