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Hope the 52% are still cock-a-hoop about their victory.
Of course. If they weren't able to understand that remain was in our best interests, they probably aren't able to understand why it's now making life harder for us than it would have been.
They will just blame something else, and the fact that most of the west is also having difficulties is just an easy direction which to point their fingers without doing much thinking.
Tax cuts?
Tax cuts only help people earning wages.
They don't even do that if you're saving £25 in tax cuts but you're left without adequate schooling, housing, policing, infrastructure, defence etc, etc, etc.
As Mick Lynch pointed out, if you substitute the word tax for services ( one pays for the other) people might have a different reaction to the policy when it's trumpeted - 'Hey everyone, here's another round of service cuts to enable the Big Fuel Cos to maintain current profit levels'
And as the changes in personal tax mean a cut in National Insurance, the more you earn, the more you benefit, so the people who need it least will gain the most
How very Tory
The very concept of massively increased government borrowing to fund cuts to corporation tax could only make sense in the addled mind of someone like Truss, who despite lecturing everyone else on the need to work harder has never actually spent a day in the real world in her entire life
Neither has Rishi Sunak either though, despite both of them touting their seriously re-written, entirely fictional ‘back stories’
They know that the Corporate big boys that fund them have the capital and resources to weather this and that’s all that matters. Then once out of the other side they’ll be able to fully capitalise on the absence of small independent competition who no longer exist.
It worked for the Professional Services companies, IR35 took out lots of their competition - other sectors took note.
They know that the Corporate big boys that fund them have the capital and resources to weather this and that’s all that matters. Then once out of the other side they’ll be able to fully capitalise on the absence of small independent competition who no longer exist.
Well if your sat on the board for a few days a year you want it to be for someone who can make it worth your while, dear boy 🙂
The very concept of massively increased government borrowing to fund cuts to corporation tax could only make sense in the addled mind of someone like Truss,
Government borrowing is not really borrowing so don't buy into that.
However they could use Q/E to much better use.
Government borrowing is not really borrowing so don’t buy into that
My point is that to spunk tens of billions (no matter how it’s funded) on cuts to corporation tax at the moment is utter and complete insanity
We all know that every single penny of that will go on bonuses in the boardroom and increased corporate dividends.
Exactly what an economy that’s about to go into freefall requires right now
Yep, the tax cut stuff is mind boggling, even for a empty head like Truss.
I read earlier that there's basically no one running the Tories atm and Truss is just left alone to spout any fairy story she wants, with no one reigning her in.
Would normally sound bonkers but looking at the evidence, I'm not so sure. I've always had the idea that people in the background run things but who on earth would sign off on this stuff?
I read earlier that there’s basically no one running the Tories
atmsince Theresa May left and Boris Johnson and then Truss are just left alone to spout any fairy story they want, with no one reigning them in.
FTFY
Yep, the tax cut stuff is mind boggling, even for a empty head like Truss.
Not if your goal is to get funding for your party from people that run big corporations....
Truss is playing to the Tory base
Her plans are bonkers but they don't care
https://twitter.com/GroomB/status/1556738772921876481?t=1LLSgRQhgszAiCO4fIjqqw&s=19
Yep... it's just more 'corporate socialism'.
Funnelling as much taxpayers money as possible into their mates pockets. Truss will just be a continuation of the corporate gravy train they've all enjoyed during covid under Johnson
Never waste a good crisis. And there's one almighty one looming into view which they are doing absolutely nothing to prevent as they spy the opportunities it creates for their disaster capitalist mates. The energy companies are just the first off the mark in what will no doubt be an orgy of profiteering
Sunak blames inflation on benefit claimants.
https://twitter.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/1560154433610289153?s=20&t=NzIilbfHEw2fHA_b0Pdxvw
Bankers bonuses are through the roof this year, off the back of tax cuts the lifting of regulations in their sector. The government are looking after the people they think matter.
I work for a Bank and the Execs have learned from the Govt too.
We got a decent corporate bonus but they changed the 'criteria' for our personal element so next to none of us got any...
Apologies, I didn't mean to suggest everyone working for a bank has benefited from that nice little stitch up.
Sunak blames inflation on benefit claimants.
It's like they're running through a Daily Mail 'Greatest Hits' countdown in a bid to out-gammon each other
I wonder what the remainer Liz Truss or the Lib Dem Liz Truss would make of the latest Far Right, Daily Mail dog-whistling, Brexiteer hardliner incarnation of Liz Truss?
I wonder what the remainer Liz Truss or the Lib Dem Liz Truss would make of the latest Far Right, Daily Mail dog-whistling, Brexiteer hardliner incarnation of Liz Truss?
So long as it advanced her career and her chances of being in Vogue, I'm sure she'd be OK with it.
She probably only chose the Lib Dems because she thought it would be easier to stand out in a small party.
Career grifter - and now she's going to be Prime Minister.
Well done Leavers!
Apologies, I didn’t mean to suggest everyone working for a bank has benefited from that nice little stitch up.
I didn't read it like you did, just pointing out that the 'ideology' is trickling down.
Don't get me wrong, we got a decent bonus, but it should've been twice as much.
Said it before. This recession is bottom up...
It'll knock out small individual business 1st?
It’ll knock out small individual business 1st?
Absolutely. I keep repeating myself on this. We seem to be sleep walking to an economic crisis, like something we have never seen.
In our little village, we have a family owned bakers. They have a successful shop on the main street and also a factory unit. They successfully supply sandwiches and other products for about a 60 mile radius. They are a key employer. Several families depend on them for their income.
Their energy consumption must be significant. I have noticed the bread has gone up twice in the last few weeks.
God knows what's going to happen with the next rises.
Absolutely. I keep repeating myself on this. We seem to be sleep walking to an economic crisis, like something we have never seen
This lot don’t give a flying * about small businesses or the people they employ. They are now exclusively (due to who funds them) the party of hedge funds, oligarchs, non-dom tax dodgers, disaster capitalists and general dodgy shysters
They’ll sit idly by, just like they’re doing now, and watch thousands of SME’s go to the wall, so their vulture mates can pick over the bones
I still think a lot of people in this country seem to be blissfully unaware of just how serious the present situation is, as there’s the usual ‘don’t mention the war’ silence from the media when it comes to almighty Tory cluster-*s
But people are going to brought up to speed pretty damn quick when this shit really hits in October, as their bills go through the roof, just as companies start going down like dominoes. And at that point, redundancy notice in hand, they’re likely to start asking why this useless bunch of muppets spent the entire summer doing the square root of **** all about any of it.
But people are going to brought up to speed pretty damn quick when this shit really hits in October, as their bills go through the roof, just as companies start going down like dominoes. And at that point, redundancy notice in hand, they’re likely to start asking why this useless bunch of muppets spent the entire summer doing the square root of **** all about any of it.
Blame the EU, blame foreigners, bang on a bit about dinghies in the Channel and they'll vote Tory again, though.
I still think a lot of people in this country seem to be blissfully unaware of just how serious the present situation is,
Yes.
But people are going to brought up to speed pretty damn quick when this shit really hits in October,
I think it is arriving already.
At work I am dealing with Scottish Government and quango's/dept that are all on a spending freeze, and have been for a few months.
I have a wife working for local council who have now rolled 2, 3 or more jobs into one and staff are not keeping up with what is required.
I am watching my sons who work in a national hotel chain get no shifts - the hotel is half empty in the middle of the tourist season.
I went to the chippy/Indian takeaway last Friday for the first time in months - and they were telling me that trade is slowing dramatically already and that they were going to up prices by 20-30% shortly.
We are staring at multiple strikes occurring over the next few months - and remember you don't get paid when you strike.
The 'undercurrent' is tugging at our legs, dragging us out to sea. I wonder how soon people will really be going under, rather than feeling skint...
Blame the EU, blame foreigners, bang on a bit about dinghies in the Channel and they’ll vote Tory again, though.
& have a rant about cyclists.
super_12 : Blame the EU, blame foreigners, bang on a bit about dinghies in the Channel and they’ll vote Tory again, though.
You forget cyclists.
You forget cyclists.
I only didn't mention us because we're in the B-List of rotating alternative targets that the Culture Warriors like to dangle in front of the Heil readers. Along with 'woke' lecturers, teachers, civil servants etc.
"It's not about growth it's about distribution".
That should be Labour's slogan for the next GE.
Absolute anathema to the narrow interests that make up core Tory support - and thus utterly the right thing.
when this shit really hits in October
I think it'll hit different people at different times. There's still a lot of people who haven't been hit at all by domestic energy price hikes, those that fixed for 12 or 18 months will come off those good rates into the full force of the winter price rises. Likewise for people on fixed rate mortgages, I don't think we've even seen the tip of the iceberg yet, a lot of financially vulnerable people will have fixed for a couple years so not yet affected by the rate rises. They will all have horrendous shocks when the new bills come in. This partly why it's not registering with everybody at the moment.
Roll in the collapse of hospitality (and we're on the verge of that, perfect storm costs through the roof, reduction in discretionary spend and no way to rise prices).
I predict we will start to really see the depth of the crisis around December, 2023 is not going to good for a lot of people, we will see everything collapse at an alarming rate, i really think we are still riding the last of the fixed rate deals and post Covid spending boom, wait to the summer holidays are over and I think we're heading for turbo disaster.
the scum comments are running 2 articles calling for sunak to throw in the towel. So who does the Dirty Digger call ?
Throw in a cold or stormy and wet (or both) winter, and return of the COVID, and it could be worse still
'Growth' is just a euphemism for trickle down ie you make a chunkload more for for us and we'll give you the steam off our ......
'Poorer nations' with a more equitable distribution are happier societies.
super_12
“It’s not about growth it’s about distribution”.
That should be Labour’s slogan for the next GE.
Absolute anathema to the narrow interests that make up core Tory support – and thus utterly the right thing.
Kind of agree but we've been conditioned to blame it all on those who have less so no one is going to want their cash distributed downwards.
When this shit hits the fan I think the Country is going to have 40 million socialists.
I can't see how the Government can survive the Winter.
It's not about blaming those who have less, we're seeing class-wide downward social mobility. Nursing used to be a middle class job, now we have examples of nurses using foodbanks. How many bar and waiting staff these days have degrees?
gobuchul
Free MemberWhen this shit hits the fan I think the Country is going to have 40 million socialists.
I think the tory project of moving us all to the right might have the unexpected endgoal that just not wanting to be hunted for sport makes you a socialist now.
Sunak's given up hasn't he? He's dabbling in the horrible crowdpleasers that the 4 or 5 undecided voters or whatever it is that will choose the next PM like, but his heart's not in it. He wants to keep running on his equations that provide the maximum pauper misery in exchange for the maximum foreign businessman pleasure...
no one is going to want their cash distributed downwards
Trying to take money off the middle classes won't work and isn't the answer. Middle to high earners have been seen as cash cows for years and are sick of it.
The money needs to come through corporate taxation and the uber wealthy. We also need a long hard look at our benefits system, after years of political meddling it seems to completely fail some people whilst others seem to live quite comfortably.
We also seem to have way more messed up families, how that is resolved I have no idea, in the past people had to stick together or they wouldn't survive, led to some very miserable people, the flip side though is we as a society end up supporting an ever growing number of people who've made some very stupid life decisions and expect to be bailed out, often at the expense of people who've ended up in trouble through circumstances well beyond their control.
Also need to really crack down on the cash economy, we have the technology and tools, we should be using them to make it very difficult to work outside of tax system. Its not just the uber rich sticking 2 fingers up to the tax man.
In the meantime we have Liz Truss who's more interested in porking markets so it really is going to be everyone for themselves for a few years.
Apparently productivity under New Labour was second only to the US amongst the G7 Nations. Under our current government we are bottom of the pile. [from The Economist last month.]
Why is that Liz Truss? Could it be that under a Tory government people don't think they have a stake in the country? Could it be that for many the word 'growth' means more profits for the corporations and gruel for the rest of us?
UK wealth returned to pre 2008 levels in. 2013, any 'growth' since then has gone directly into the pockets of the rich whilst everyone else is significantly poorer.
inkster not sure why my personal circumstances are anything to do with you. Its the people in the cash economy not paying tax that are the issue, there's plenty of people on minimum wage on PAYE whilst there are many very comfortably off people who got there by not putting their earnings through the books.
Your post is pretty unpleasant and uncalled for to be honest, I've no personal interest in how others spend their money and didnt suggest i did, but the tax man should and does. Are you condoning not paying tax, sounds like you are. Its ok for some people to evade tax is it?
Well if it's ok for some people not to pay tax then why should anyone bother.
Schools are going to be hot like a sledge hammer by this, after staff energy costs are the biggest expense and that's about to get much bigger as the cap doesn't cover schools. I expect hospitals will be the same too.
Its the people in the cash economy not paying tax that are the issue
No it’s the likes of shell and Amazon paying no tax which is the problem, not Fred the plumber and his mates doing a cheap cash in hand job. The tax lost from the cash economy is a drop in the ocean compared to the industrial scale evasion of corporates and multi-millionaires and billionaires. In the current climate where I’m going to be ripped off to the tune of around 500 quid a month, if any tradesman offer me an off the books discount I’ll be gladly accepting.
UK wealth returned to pre 2008 levels in. 2013, any ‘growth’ since then has gone directly into the pockets of the rich whilst everyone else is significantly poorer.
Most of us are significantly poorer. Even those who haven’t noticed yet. How can we get people to see who has put us in this position, and how the voting public have been empowering them to further stamp down on real wages and over stress our services? We (not you or I, but the people of this country) voted not just to keep returning Conservative led governments, but to give them back “control”. When will people wake up and change their votes to improve things?
When will people wake up and change their votes to improve things?
When our so-called official opposition offer them an alternative. Given the choice of tory policies implemented by the tories, or tory policies implemented by labour, it stands to reason that many will opt to vote for the party which actually believes in what they are doing.
No it’s the likes of shell
Devils advocate, Shell paid no tax because they made no money, remember the oil price in some parts of the world dropping below zero? They were literally paying refiners/storage to take it off their hands as it was cheaper than a complete shutdown of production operations.
There's a further issue of revenue being offshored by multinationals, but you shouldn't conflate the two.
In that case dazh you're not really in a position to criticise all greedy fat cats which you are so find of doing. Or in your world is it ok for people like you to break the rules but not for others. That's exactly the mindset the disaster capitalists have, it's that sort of mentality that has given us years of Tory rule and an utterly selfish society which keeps voting for the likes of Boris Johnson.
In that case dazh you’re not really in a position to criticise all greedy fat cats which you are so find of doing.
FFS take your head out of your backside. Working people (of which I am one) are being bled dry by the people at the top of our economy. Look in pretty much any area and you’ll see people being ripped off either through rising prices, falling incomes or both. And all facilitated by a political class which has abandoned any pretence of representing the interests of the country at large. We are being robbed blind by these c**** so spare me the moralising about saving a few quid when the opportunity arises.
Or in your world is it ok for people like you to break the rules but not for others.
Either everyone pays the taxes they should, or nobody does. To demand one rule for others but not set an example yourself is hypocritical.
To demand one rule for others but not set an example yourself is hypocritical.
Nonsense. So working people have to toe the line while the rich get away with proverbial murder? When all the billionaires and corporations pay what everyone else has to pay by all means go after the little guy. Until then they can f*** right off.
We're all being bled dry by Covid, Putin, climate change and the disgrace for a government we currently have, put in power by the very people you're talking about. Selfish thoughtless, blinkered working people who think it's ok for them to avoid tax but expect all the help in the world when they need it. Remember the squeals from the self employed who hadn't been putting everything through their books when Covid hit. There's greedy people throughout society, it's not just the uber rich.
Your left wing utopia is an unworkable pipe dream which is never happening (and would trash society if it did). Maybe the grown ups realise this, maybe people like Starmer realise that you can't get the current voters in this country to lurch to the extreme left from an ever more right wing trajectory, it's got to be done jncrementally. The same selfish people behaving exactly the way you say you would. Justifying your own selfish actions because others don't play by the rules doesn't cut it.
Sorry stumpy, was half joking, thus the 'that's you that is' reference.
Have you ever had to pay for things like pre pay electricity? Cash only at the till I'm afraid. I understand that you were pointing the finger at a few people who are doing quote well and avoiding taxes but it pales in comparison to corporate tax avoidance and evasion.
Contrary to moving away from a cash economy I suggest it is one area that will see significant growth in the next couple of years, we will see a return to the situation as it was in the 80's.
If you were to clamp down on the cash economy it would be the poorest that will suffer most. I reckon a lot of small businesses will be doing more 'cash' business in the near future, not because they are grèady but because it might be the only way they can survivè and it might be the only way people can afford their services.
As others have pointed out, loads of small businesses will be out of business in weeks and when they try to start up again when things get better they will find that their individual sectors will have been gobbled up by multi national, non tax paying (but Tory party contributing) corporations.
And dazh may have some funny opinions from time to time but to draw a moral equivalence between him and Jeff Bezos is quite frankly absurd.
Selfish thoughtless, blinkered working people
And you accuse me of class war? I think In this comment and your patronising use of the word ‘grownups’ you’ve exposed exactly what you think of working people. It’s snobbery plain and simple.
And for the record, working people don’t have any choice but to pay tax as it’s taken at source. I paid over 15k in income tax and NI last year. I didn’t have a choice, and didn’t complain. But don’t expect me to feel guilty about saving a few quid on a building job, especially if it also benefits the tradesman who is also being screwed with higher costs through no fault of their own.
realise that you can’t get the current voters in this country to lurch to the extreme left from an ever more right wing trajectory
It is people like you who describe basic social democracy as "extreme left" that did so much to encourage the apparently "selfish thoughtless, blinkered working people" to vote Tory.
And then castigate them for doing precisely that.
Fair enough inkster, it didn't come across that way, thanks for clarifying, to be fair it did seem a little out of kilter for your usual posts. Wasn't really comparing dazh to Jeff Bezos, more of a back bench Tory MP who choses which rules apply to them and which don't whilst expecting everyone else to tow the line.
dazh, yes you, the class warrior, it's all black and white in your world. As usual you've selectively quoted to back up your myopic world view, I stand by my whole comment
Selfish thoughtless, blinkered working people who think it’s ok for them to avoid tax but expect all the help in the world when they need it
is the whole quote, i.e. the ones that think its ok to take without giving back, the ones happy to avoid tax, which is not all, or even most working people, but there are enough of them to keep the current corrupt bunch of grifters in power.
If the grownups comment was patronising then good you understood, utopia isn't happening, actions have consequences, see Corbyn's failure to oppose Brexit, he was as much an enabler of this disaster as Cameron.
If you want to stop the corporate rampage demanding a Corbyn world is never going to get you there. The solution is not all about hammering the corporate world though.
ernielynch, no it's people like you who describe people with moderate views as right wing and try to paint anyone who doesn't agree with your extreme (and they are extreme by UK standards) views an enemy.
I suppose Rone will be along next to give their magic money tree a wobble.
And if you want any further evidence of how working people are being ripped off, look no further. You don’t have to be a ‘grown up’ to recognise robbery when you see it.
ernielynch, no it’s people like you who describe people with moderate views as right wing and try to paint anyone who doesn’t agree with your extreme (and they are extreme by UK standards) views an enemy.
So you have confirmed it is indeed basic social democracy that you are described as "extreme left".
A "Corbyn world", as you describe it, was somewhere to the right of Tory PMs Harold Macmillan and Edward Health, and in some cases probably to the right of existing Christian Democratic/Conservative parties in Europe - see French conservatives currently nationalising their energy supplies.
You dismissing moderate social democratic policies as "extreme left" ironically outs you as an extremist.
utopia isn’t happening
Who wants utopia? All I want is the rich and multinationals to pay tax like everyone else has to. Is that utopian in your grown up world? In my world that’s the bare minimum and I reckon the vast majority would agree with me. If you seriously think that’s ‘extreme left’ then you’re nothing more than a useful idiot to the people ripping you off. Thing is despite your protestations to the opposite I don’t think you are, I reckon you’re more sympathetic to the people doing the exploiting than those at the receiving end, but you don’t want to admit it.
and your point is? Still doesn't excuse you from encouraging tax evasion which is illegal.
To stop the behaviour of the likes of P & O we need to get the current lot out of power and get someone in who will start to tackle this sort of legal abuse so it becomes illegal. That's not going to happen with some lurch to the extreme left, Corbyn had his chance, he blew it, he utterly failed to take enough people with him, his supporters did the usual left wing thing of blaming everyone else, it's the PLP, it's the media etc. etc. Well to get into power you need to connect with the majority of voters and your own party, Corbyn didn't. You have to learn to manipulate and counter the vested interests in the media. Corbyn utterly failed at this, even Liz Truss has the brains to realise she has to appeal to the voters (unfortunately in this case those voters are a very select bunch of insulated retirees).
If he actually had compromised a bit we might all be in a better position today and not have the government we do.
Stumpy why the obsession with Corbyn? I didn’t even mention him. Do you think corporations and billionaires paying the same tax as small businesses and working people is too extreme for the Labour Party?
The obsession with Corbyn, yeah I'm pissed with him, he enabled the current mess, spouting the same message you are (although to be fair to Corbyn I doubt he'd be condoning tax evasion like you are) see the link.
Well to get into power you need to connect with the majority of voters and your own party, Corbyn didn’t.
Well I tend to agree with that point, certainly it was also a problem for Gordon Brown and Ed Miliband, and I suspect that it is a major problem for Keir Starmer too - voters don't appear to feel particularly warm towards him nor does he appear to connect with them, plus the Labour Party is losing hundreds of members every day, so unlike Corbyn he doesn't appear to be connecting with his own party.
But if this is still about who is going to be our next PM I feel fairly confident that Liz Truss will probably be able to connect with voters and her own party better than Keir Starmer currently does. Time will tell I guess.
I feel fairly confident that Liz Truss will probably be able to connect with voters
And unfortunately I fully agree with you on that. Although I initially thought Rishi might have been PM material he's clearly shown his right wing extremities and preparedness to dog whistle so maybe Liz is a better option out of two horrendous options, at she has the aptitude to really screw up big time, unfortunately she'll make Boris look competent.
In answer to the original question: Liz Truss.
Says she will reverse the recent rise in National Insurance, which came into effect in April, and hold an emergency budget
Pledges to scrap a planned rise in corporation tax - set to increase from 19% to 25% in 2023
Would suspend what is known as the “green levy” - part of your energy bill that pays for social and green projects
Says she will pay for the cuts by spreading the UK's "Covid debt" over a longer period
Promises to change taxes to make it easier for people to stay at home to care for children or elderly relatives
Wants to create new “low-tax and low-regulation zones” across the country to create hubs for innovation and enterprise
Says she won’t cut public spending unless there is a way to do so that won’t lead to future problems
Would bring target of spending 2.5% of GDP on defence forward to 2026 and introduce a new target of 3% by 2030
Thing is if Keir Starmer's name was at the top of that list would you spot the error?
Ever heard the phrase "No taxation without representation "?
Flip it on its head; No representation without taxation.
The fact that there is a threshold before you pay tax (that rises consistently) is a reflection of the fact that wages are too low and have been for decades.
It is a model that suggests that the low paid are second class citizens and gives the impression to those who earn enough to actually pay tax that they are more deserving than those who don't. It a method of disenfranchisement and an instrument of divide and rule masquerading as concern for the low paid.
I am not (necessarily) positing an argument for the better paid paying less taxes, if the lower paid were paid a fair wage that was taxed then incomes between the have and have nots would be less extreme.
Every time the tax threshold is increased it depresses wages and benefits the affluent. It is the fiscal equivalent of repeatedly cutting the legs of a wonky chair until you find yourself on your arse.
he enabled the current mess, spouting the same message
As opposed to the message that dishonest and ****less workers are the problem in our country? Now who have we heard that from recently? It’s no surprise to me though that you hate Corbyn so much, it’s entirely consistent with other tory sympathisers.
Yes do good, pay your taxes, keep your head down and eventually the Royals, Lords and Barons will make society fair. They really want to, they just haven't yet because some builders did a couple of fiddles.
I disliked Corbyn because he was a euro-sceptic and made his party unelectable. No I'm not a Tory sympathiser.
A party needs a leader that personifies its voters' ideals, it seems to me that Liz Truss does that perfectly for the Tory party - pass the sick bag please. I don't think Starmer personifies enough left-wing voters' ideals, in my case because he back pedals so often I'm not sure he has any - on Europe, on privatisation (they seem scared to use the word), on education, on the environment (you don't subsidise energy you throw money at making sure people will live in homes that don't need much energy). No conviction, no commitment. However, Liz Truss is clearly committed to screwing over the most vulnearable in society which is just what her voters want to hear.
I disliked Corbyn because he was a euro-sceptic
Corbyn made totally committed Remainer Keir Starmer shadow brexit minister. And two years after promising Labour voters that he would respect the result of the 2016 referendum Corbyn allowed Starmer to talk him into backing a second referendum, thereby alienating millions of traditional Labour voters.
What more would you like him to have done?
Gone for the Jo Swinson strategy of not calling for a second referendum and instead saying "vote for us and we will simply ignore brexit", despite the LibDems being the first major political party to actually call for a referendum on EU membership?
I disliked Corbyn because he was a euro-sceptic and made his party unelectable. No I’m not a Tory sympathiser
You, me and the rest of the country
Truly the worst of both worlds. Actually the worst of all worlds
But the usual suspects of the Jeremy cult will now turn this thread into their usual tedious worship of their utterly useless god who gift-wrapped both Brexit then two Tory election victories, one with the biggest majority since dinosaurs roamed the earth
Magic *ing Grandad is as much a reason as where we are as Boris *ing Johnson, but you’re not allowed to point out that obvious truism out as it’s apparently some sort of blasphemy.
What more would you like him to have done?
Well perhaps if the stupid Brexiteer * had actually not gone AWOL for the entire referendum campaign and had instead represented the overwhelming interests of his party and its voters, instead of echoing Farage, we wouldn’t be where we are now
And it takes some *ing front for his disciples to be whinging about Starmer now when their hero delivered Brexit, the most far right project this country has ever seen, on a silver platter then ordered a Moonpig delivery for an 80 seat Tory majority
Stupidity on a truly epic scale
So if you’re still prepared to willfully ignore all that now and rewrite history to moan that Starmer only has an 8% lead in the polls, or whatever, then you really are a total and complete ****ing moron
No offence, like…
No offence, like…
I can't take offence to you calling me "a total and complete *ing moron" binners. It seems logical that you would as you have always considered anyone who disagrees with you to be a moron, whatever their politics.
Well perhaps if the stupid Brexiteer * had actually not gone AWOL for the entire referendum campaign and had instead represented the overwhelming interests of his party and its voters, instead of echoing Farage, we wouldn’t be where we are now
So you think Corbyn's more involved personal intervention would have resulted in Remain winning? I had no idea that you attached so much importance to Corbyn's powers of persuasion among voters binners.
This is the same man which you mock, ridicule, and dismiss, as a bearded allotment dwelling moron, right?
And how did Corbyn manage to both be AWOL for the entire referendum campaign and echo Nigel Farage at the same time?
Btw I don't know what "echoing Farage" actually means...... Corbyn talked about the need to clamp down on illegal immigration and asylum seekers? What does "echoing Farage" involve?
Final question - do often find that you have posted something without thinking about it first?
Well said @binners
He wanted to get rid of trident too... We'd probably all be frantically trying to learn how to speak Russian right now if he'd have got into power. Out of the EU and with no nukes, lol!
Your left wing utopia is an unworkable pipe dream which is never happening (and would trash society if it did).
How can anyone say this with a straight face?
The amount of people not willing to push back against all that neoliberalism has failed to give us deserves what he have today.
The obsession with Corbyn, yeah I’m pissed with him, he enabled the current mess, spouting the same message you are (although to be fair to Corbyn I doubt he’d be condoning tax evasion like you are) see the link.
The only person of significance to truly push back against the market economy and all its signposted problems - enabled the current mess?
Centrist delusion.
What more would you like him to have done?
Campaign convincingly for remain in the run up to the referendum as the majority of Labour voters were in favour of remain. Instead he spent his time slagging off the EU, over Greece in particular. Take a trip back to before the referendum with this and many other articles:
You're a child, and your only point of order is Brexit. Your posts are made up of rants and hysteria and you just want that protecting.
Like I said too many delusional centrists that can't see a collapsing economy brought about by their own ignorance.
And let's face it you are angry because Starmer has been a reflection of your own failed values. The real reason you stay out of that thread.
To not understand why the Tories keep doing well and trying to bully people out of threads who can actually construct a layered argument about market economics is linked - but your appalling tiresome 'who's the next bad Tory' rants will never unravel any of that.
Centrists have no answers.
When some of the posters on this thread have warned of the dangers of moving more and more to the right and making moderate left wing policies seen as extreme I didn't really take much notice of them but this thread is now the proof of that I suppose.
Having policies that provide better equality, a fairer society etc, is now a left wing extreme utopia. The tory party have won haven't they.
Having policies that provide better equality, a fairer society etc, is now a left wing extreme utopia. The tory party have won haven’t they.
Totally.
Centrists have a lot to answer for.
That is the exact reason they exist to keep the Tories where the are.
As with the Starmer thread the only people ‘sucking c***’ about Corbyn are reactionary tories who are too embarrassed or ashamed to admit that’s what they are.
He wanted to get rid of trident too… We’d probably all be frantically trying to learn how to speak Russian right now if he’d have got into power. Out of the EU and with no nukes, lol!
You sound like a Reagan era pick-uo driving red neck.
Lol how has any of the current establishment prevented any of the present situation?
And **** it, have you seen the state of Labour's finances since Starmer took charge?
The current fiscally prudent operation have managed to turn an 11 million surplus to dust.
They shouldn't be allowed near Monopoly.
https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1560255878196068353?t=pbDFby696jCRwU-93jzI2Q&s=19
Starmer and Reeves exist to keep the Tories in power. Nothing else would explain their totally shit decisions.
If only they understood when in power a government deficit was a private sector surplus.
Anyond remember Mark's post - yes him, the co-owner - about playing nice and Drac's occasional reminders of the same?
This thread is a perfect example of why many posters stay away from politics threads.
It's like shouty drunks having a slanging match when so few others have any interest in the verbiage and bile.
Utterly pointless windbaggery.
This thread, Starmer, Brexit - yep, all politics related.
It's time for some posters to either grow-up or clear off.