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That “unfair protest”…
https://twitter.com/gndrising/status/1555636011320975360?s=21
I shudder to think, Truss making a u turn before even being in power. No thank you
I wish neither could be
Truss went all Trumpy blaming the media for Johnson's downfall at hustings tonight
https://twitter.com/christiancalgie/status/1557095374602616832?t=2WychtwhQYFFpqxDWD-dCQ&s=19
She's an awful public speaker
https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/1557076650436820994?t=EXdJDJmrVWScQPY2YlThCA&s=19
@kelvin "go back to your own country"
Should we really expect anything better?
Liz4LOLZ!!
She’s an awful public speaker
I reckon that might well work in her favour. Most people are very poor public speakers and Truss not being particularly good is likely to make her appear more normal and someone which the public can identified with. Especially among people who are truly fed up with slick and professionally polished politicians.
Mind you her soon to be opposite number in the Labour Party is also a pisspoor public speaker. Although in his case it is based on a boring monotone delivery and remarkable lack of enthusiasm in his own beliefs, rather than a lack of fluidity, so probably not so much of a counter-threat.
"@kelvin “go back to your own country”
Should we really expect anything better?"
Do keep up, the new trope is:
'Send them back from where they don't come from.'
Especially among people who are truly fed up with slick and professionally polished politicians.
That may have some gravitas were it not for the fact she's running to replace someone who uses the term "burst sofa" as his professional image. And look where that got us.
Those slick and professionally polished politicians, eh?...
Well, it seems that some reality might actually finally be entering proceedings and we're now getting the grudging acknowledgement from the candidates for the top job that everyones fuel bills hitting £4,200+ might represent a slight problem that may possibly need addressing
Good of them to finally acknowledge the elephant in the room
Of course they have no answers other than the usual flannel from Truss that somehow giving corporate tax cuts is going to magically help someone trying to exist on Universal Credit and some unspecified 'help' from Rishi
Its going to be an 'interesting' winter
Those slick and professionally polished politicians, eh?…
You are not aware of Johnson's strong voter appeal?
You thought that he became PM despite his bumbling persona, because of his overwhelming intellectual qualities?
Of course they have no answers other than the usual flannel from Truss that somehow giving corporate tax cuts is going to magically help someone trying to exist on Universal Credit and some unspecified ‘help’ from Rishi
Don't worry, Labour will soon come up with some "answers". Then the Tories will be in trouble.
However good those answers will be (and they will be crap) it is irrelevant as far as I know the tories are currently in power.
Don’t worry, Labour will soon come up with some “answers”. Then the Tories will be in trouble.
Well they blatantly nicked their last 'answer' after rubbishing it for months, watered it down (obviously), then sold it to the electorate as their own.
Do you never get bored of bringing everything back to labour? Because Christ only knows, the rest of us are. Can you not keep that to the Keir Starmer thread that the 5 of you are so busy thwapping each other daft in furious agreement on, then the rest of us can avoid it and you?
This is a thread about the Tory leadership contest, lets keep it on topic eh, considering the significance that will have for us all
The inability of the Tory leadership contenders to provide answers cannot somehow in be discussed in isolation with the alternatives, despite your bizarre aversion to ever mentioning the Opposition.
Although intense criticism whilst providing no answers is very much the binners way. Even it would appear, when criticising Tories for not providing answers.
*yawns*
Anything to say on the topic of the Tory leadership then, comrade?
The Keir Starmer lefty moanfest is that way. >>>
Try and keep the noise down, there's a good chap
Anything to say on the topic of the Tory leadership then, comrade?
Erm, quite a lot - I have made my views fairly clear. I don't however see the role of UK Prime Minister in isolation with the opposition that they will be faced with. Why would anyone do that - unless they were somehow embarrassed by the poor quality of the Opposition?
Try and keep the noise down, there’s a good chap
When someone relies on patronising insults it is a fair indication that they lack the confidence to offer a coherent argument.
When are the five or six so-called 'lefty' suspects on here going to break cover and openly admit they quite like the modern Brexity Tories?
The tension is unbearable.
Welcome back Danny, I did wonder how long your declaration of never again frequenting a political thread would last.
Not very long apparently.
Nice of you to reply so quickly, ernietruss.
Don’t worry, Labour will soon come up with some “answers”.
Labour are all on f***** holiday! Not a single one of them has had anything to say in the past 24 hours. Energy prices combined with the tory leadership contest is the biggest open goal they've ever been presented with, and they've decided they can't be arsed. And then when they realise the enormity of it they'll propose something that Truss or Sunak with easily outbid.
She’s an awful public speaker
Just in case you were in any doubt:
(may have been posted already)
Some of it is so cringesome that I had to just look away....
*yawns*
Anything to say on the topic of the Tory leadership then, comrade?
The Keir Starmer lefty moanfest is that way. >>>
Try and keep the noise down, there’s a good chap
Look at the state of this logic - when the 'lefty' Laboury bloke you supported hasn't got any answers to:
a) The worst government of our times
b) Potentially the worst economic melt-down of our times.
To think that's irrelevent to this thread.
The sooner you realise Starmer's failing is linked to the Tories success - the better for all of us.
The tedium is all yours, and circle-jerkery is definitely at home here.
Some of it is so cringesome that I had to just look away….
What can you say to that..... We're doomed, we're doomed.
This is all so frightening to contemplate.
When are the five or six so-called ‘lefty’ suspects on here going to break cover and openly admit they quite like the modern Brexity Tories?
The tension is unbearable.
Centrism masquerading as left-wing has just blown its own cover.
Aren't you constantly leaving threads in a huff?
The inability of the Tory leadership contenders to provide answers cannot somehow in be discussed in isolation with the alternatives, despite your bizarre aversion to ever mentioning the Opposition.
Well because this thread is just a grafity wall for angry centrists coming to terms with their failed market solutions built on a Tory economic model. So when a Tory lets them down - they are let down.
"When are the five or six so-called ‘lefty’ suspects on here going to break cover and openly admit they quite like the modern Brexity Tories?"
I was thinking, what the Tories need is someone who voted Brexit but actually understands the problems involved with regard transport and logistics, administrative workloads etc and knows how to negotiate.
Step forward Mick Lynch..
I was thinking, what the Tories need is someone who voted Brexit but actually understands the problems involved with regard transport and logistics, administrative workloads etc and knows how to negotiate.
Step forward Mick Lynch..
Not going to work as they don't like collective power from the working class.
The Tories have become nothing more than a protest party, rather than win general elections and proceed to implement manifesto commitments they choose to campaign in perpetuity.
They were elected on the platform of getting Brexit done but 'No Deal' means the opposite of getting Brexit done, it means doing nothing.
They instead put all their energies into laws protecting statues and characterise anyone who doesn't agree with them as anti British, threatening to report them to Prevent.
However good those answers will be (and they will be crap) it is irrelevant as far as I know the tories are currently in power.
They could set the bar too high for the Tories to climb?
50 billion bail-out package for ColC ?- supporting payment of bills - in broad strokes. (instead of insulation)
Now there a rumours that Truss might go for this when/if elected. So not much too lose and everything to play for. The public will be on the side of the first party that offers a solution.
I'm assuming the 'no plans to help' line is to appeal to the conservative party membership. once that hurdle is passed she'll pivot.
not helping would strike me as electoral suicide. people won't forget in a hurry
"Not going to work as they don’t like collective power from the working class."
Whoosh...
As they used to say.
I wasn't being serious with the Mick Lynch comment, rather observing the irony that if he were doing Grant Schapps and JRM's job we wouldnt be seeing the queue' s we are seeing at Dover, he would have anticipated the logistical problems and would have planned for them.
He would also have been able to negotiate a better resolution to the Northern Irish border problem, probably recognising that a No Deal was unworkable.
Brexit had nothing to do with Europe, it was a power grab, nothing more than that
I’m assuming the ‘no plans to help’ line is to appeal to the conservative party membership.
A lot of the tory membership are going to suffer from the increase in energy prices, they probably haven't realised it yet and assume it only affects the poor.
not helping would strike me as electoral suicide. people won’t forget in a hurry
Just as Johnson/Sunak realised the enormity of covid and it's potential to collapse the economy, Truss will do the same. The question is whether it'll be too late by then. If however she digs her heels in and decides to take an ideological approach as she's currently suggesting, the govt itself could collapse under the weight of public outrage. It might sound overly dramatic, but this is the stuff of revolutions.
A lot of the tory membership are going to suffer from the increase in energy prices,
everyone is going to suffer
how many people can afford an extra £200+ a month to heat their homes this winter?
Whoosh…
As they used to say.
Hard to tell these days. Lol
It might sound overly dramatic, but this is the stuff of
revolutionstutting and eye-rolling.
FTFY
A lot of the tory membership are going to suffer from the increase in energy prices, they probably haven’t realised it yet and assume it only affects the poor.
i think they'd probably wear the price increases than help the poor...
reminded me of this. sentiment is the same...
https://twitter.com/amiiillustrates/status/1349797866173304840
how many people can afford an extra £200+ a month to heat their homes this winter?
And the rest! Based on Martin Lewis's comments yesterday, compared to the beginning of this year I'm going to be paying an extra £700 a month. I'm not sure the magnitude of the extra expense has sunk in yet. When it does all hell will break loose.
FTFY
If they do nothing this is going to be way bigger than the poll tax. Truss may well achieve her ambition of emulating Thatcher.
how many people can afford an extra £200+ a month to heat their homes this winter?
We have no mains gas in our village.
For some people with only electric heating, it's going to be more than that.
compared to the beginning of this year I’m going to be paying an extra £700 a month
only heat the west wing? 😉
htf do you end up spending £700/month more on gas/electricity?
anyway, if you assume the tory membership is overwhelminly from the top 40% of households by income (this is a corse guess on my behalf), the average income of those households (not individuals) after tax is £50k. an extra £2.5k per year is a 5% drop from that figure, which is signifiant, but I would argue is mostly affordable, for them.
@dazh - why is your bill so high? that's astronomical.
Do you have pet sharks or something?
htf do you end up spending £700/month more on gas/electricity?
Old farmhouse with a gas aga (which we're in the process of getting rid of). We were paying £250ish/month on average at the beginning this year. That went up to £500/month in April, and now that's going to go up another 80% so it'll be approaching £900/month I reckon. The last fixed rate quote we got was for £7500 for the year and that looks cheap now. Like I said, I don't think many people have really grasped the impact on their finances.
A lot of the tory membership are going to suffer from the increase in energy prices
I doubt it. Having your heating bill quadruple in price may stop most of us in our tracks… because it was already a large chunk of our outgoings, and we have very little disposable income… not the case for any Conservative Member I know. All too excited about cruises voyages running properly again, and deliberating over when to replace their car that’s only a few years old. They are in the main retired, living in half million pound plus houses and looking into new ways to invest hide away their wealth from a “prying” HRMC.
rone
Aren’t you constantly leaving threads in a huff?
What's the matter? Is dissonance on his hollibobs, so that you and ernietruss have to have this thread on a five second auto-refresh to pick up the slack?
What’s the matter? Is dissonance on his hollibobs, so that you and ernietruss have to have this thread on a five second auto-refresh to pick up the slack?
🙂
My partner has a 2 bed flat in London that was built in the mid 2000's that was about a thousand square foot.
Underfloor heating, poor insulation and the electricity bills were about £250 a month 10 years ago! We have the worst constructed and insulated housing stock in Europe. Nearly all the new builds in Manchester where I live now are just as bad.
I am currently stood on my 7th floor balcony looking at thousands of properties in South Manchester, half red brick, half new build and I can't see a single solar panel.
My partner has been renting out the aforementioned property for the last 3 years thank god.
Brexit had nothing to do with Europe, it was a power grab, nothing more than that
Can I repeat my oft-repeated comment?
"Brexit isn't the destination, it's the vehicle"
how many people can afford an extra £200+ a month to heat their homes this winter?
The majority?
We have no mains gas in our village.
We're on oil, the rises have hit us already:
2020 £1075
2021 £1480
2022 £1941 and still another 'fill' to go, so circa £3000 in total
Oh, and firewood was 15% dearer this year than last too.
My Mum who's next door is all electric, over £100 per week last winter - double it for this winter and it'd take her entire State Pension to cover it.
18 months ago:
Wife and I on double income
No kids
Fixed rate mortgage
£100 a month energy bills
Now:
I work
We have young twins
Wife doesn't work
Childcare costs (x 2)
Fixed rate mortgage deal ending soon
Energy Bills +£500/month in October at an estimate
We live in a nice house. We earned and worked for it. Our outgoings are greater than our earnings. The only option we realistically see is to sell our house and downsize significantly. There is no help for people like us.
You describe the perfect storm edward2000.
I can see energy prices having a knock on effect in the housing market.
You have also described why our birth rate is so low, as having children is more financially perilous than at virtually any time in history.
Still, we've got to ensure that that triple lock pension is preserved at all costs.
I assume you knew how expensive kids are before choosing to have them? I agree that energy prices are rising at a ridiculous rate but your decision to have kids was always going to make life a lot more expensive and impact on earnings.
I can see energy prices having a knock on effect in the housing market.
They will have an effect on everything if nothing is done. This is how economies collapse. And by collapse I don't mean recession, job losses, lower wages etc, I mean complete collapse. Devalutation of the currency, disappearance of savings and pensions, collapse in property prices, millions of bankruptcies, 20%+ unemployment etc. It's depression era stuff.
Wife doesn’t work
Childcare costs (x 2)
There's a simple answer to that assuming there's not something about your circumstances that we don't currently understand.
I assume you knew how expensive kids are before choosing to have them?
Not many people plan to have twins. Besides, if what you're saying is that this country is too expensive for normal people to raise a family, then that in itself proves that the govt and politicians as a whole have completely failed in their responsibilities.
That depends what they regard their responsibilities as being, surely?
Liz seems to think that her priority at the moment is protecting corporate profits and dividends to shareholders, in which case she appears to be succeeding massively
That depends what they regard their responsibilities as being, surely?
I would've thought providing an economy in which people can afford to have kids is fairly high up the list, even for tories.
rich families can still afford to have kids. Makes you think.
They only want the right sort of people breeding though. Hence Boris trying to single-handedly populate the entire country, one filly at time. WUFF!!!
And less of this sort of thing...
Id like to add that having twins is just ridiculously expensive and not something you can control
When we found out we were pregnant with our 3rd it was a tough decision about what we should do, but we figured we'd be alright as our elder 2 kids weoukd both be in school full time
When found out it was twins it was a nightmare!
Finding a grand a month for childcare alone, even if both working is one thing but £2k!
No longer became viable for us both to work, and of course at this time government brought in 2 child benefit cap....
We have an ageing population, having kids is cripplingly expensive, government incentiveises you not to have more & also demonises immigrants as a political tool
And we have a labour shortage and an ever widening productivity gap...... Bonkers populism
"Liz seems to think that her priority at the moment is protecting corporate profits and dividends to shareholders"
Remember a couple of years back when I started a thread titled: "Corporate Socialism" when the bail out of corporations started?
The STW consensus at the time was that I was talking bollox. We know that many billions of public money was dished out.
Money now either sitting in the Cayman Islands or fuelling inflation as the shareholders open the bubbly.
I’m no fan of Nicola Sturgeon, although I do admire how skillfull she is at getting her message across - if only Corbyn had had some of what she has.
However, this from the Guardian is great 😀:
She was speaking in a Q&A with the broadcaster Iain Dale, and responding to a question about Truss dismissing Strugeon recently as an “attention seeker”. The comment attracted considerable controversy, partly because it was a slur against an elected head of government, and partly because Truss is not exactly publicity shy herself.
Sturgeon said when she initially heard about the comment, she thought “it was made up, it was a spoof.” Then she said she met Truss at the Cop26 summit last year, shortly after being interviewed by Vogue. Sturgeon went on:
That was the main thing she wanted to talk to me about, she wanted to know how she could get into Vogue - and she calls me an attention-seeker. I said to her they came and asked me.
I didn’t really mean to do this, but I said to her it hadn’t actually been my first time in Vogue, it had been my second time.
It looked a little bit as if she’d swallowed a wasp.
I’m sure she’ll be in Vogue before too long.
I remember it because there we were at the world’s biggest climate change conference in Glasgow, world leaders about to arrive
That was the main topic of conversation she was interested in pursuing. And once we’d exhausted that it kind of dried up.
I’m sure we’ll have many more conversations about many more substantive things.
Asked about her dealings with previous Tory leaders, Sturgeon said:I think perhaps uncharitably I described my conversations with Theresa May when she was prime minister, as being soul destroying. I look back somewhat fondly now on that.
At least May took the job of being prime minister seriously, Sturgeon said. By comparison, dealings with Boris Johnson were “one long bluster”, she said.You know, he was a third prime minister I’ve dealt with as first minister. It was literally like nothing I’ve ever dealt with before in terms of any senior politician.
You know, I’m going to be blunt here, he was a disgrace to the office of prime minister.
"No longer became viable for us both to work, and of course at this time government brought in 2 child benefit cap…."
Well I guess the government will say that's your fault for having twins.
The cost of living crisis will act like a contraception over the next couple of years.
Expect the birth rate to decline even further.
Well I guess the government will say that’s your fault for having twins.
And some people on here it would seem. As if anyone plans to have twins. TBH the barely disguised lack of sympathy for struggling parents is pretty beyond the pale. This 'it's you're own fault for having kids in the first place' attitude is vile. Who do these people think are going to be paying their pensions in 30 years time?
Expect the birth rate to decline even further.
It will, and that's a very bad thing for any society.
Please let this be the intro music at the next hustings, or at least have it as the outro music on Newsnight..
Its obvious that she's as vacuous as she seems and that she's actually even more narcissistic and self-regarding than her predecessor.
From Cameron onwards, how is it possible that they keep getting so much worse, every time?
It always staggered me that everyone hadn't seen straight through Johnsons tragic, tired act years ago, but to not see Instagram Liz for what she so obviously is - a preening, vacuous lightweight - is beyond belief
We've all manner of shit heading our way this winter and we've got someone who would be out of her depth on a wet pavement to have to deal with it all
God help us!
how many people can afford an extra £200+ a month to heat their homes this winter?
Pah. Remember the tory voters are the greatest generation* and so can shrug off hardships without noticing. When they were lads they had to smash the ice before they could use the water to make porridge every morning and even then they had to grow the oats every day.
More seriously I am very happy we managed to blackmail/persuade my dad into moving into somewhere smaller which can be heated for a sensible amount rather than our old family home which was a)family sized and b)an absolute arse to keep warm in winter to the extent I could sort of claim the "having to scrape ice of the bedsheets" since it was just freakishly cold although irritatingly didnt carry it through into the summer.
The question and it is a big one is whether they can divert their failings and say "well everyone is having it hard". Given the varying exposure to Russia I think, so long as they dont upset Murdoch and co, they might pull it off. See covid for how St Johnson led us through it without issue**.
*ok so one step removed but they read the commando comics as a kid and so know they could kill fritz with their bare hands.
** definition of "issue" highly variable.
In case anyone isn't already seething about what's going on with energy. These f**** should be put up against a wall.
https://twitter.com/evolvepolitics/status/1557320089690595335?s=20&t=qZzIRcsuW0EyNH5t0dNDug
From Cameron onwards, how is it possible that they keep getting so much worse, every time?
The problem is being good at being elected isnt the same thing as being good at the actual job you are applying for.
I am sure we are all aware of it from either doing interviews or conducting them. Some people are great at selling themselves to an audience whereas others who would be brilliant suck at it.
She seems very, very good at selling to the relevant audience. I guess the question is how restricted the "relevant" audience is and whether once having sold to them she can change her tactics and sell to everyone else in which case she might end up an asset
Sadly though I doubt it.
Personally I wouldnt rate May as worse than Cameron though. He ran away from a pretty much impossible job and left it to her. There were ways she could have done better but ultimately he left her with a mess and ran for the hills. As such I mark him far lower.
She seems very, very good at selling to the relevant audience.
the fact this is true, shows how ****ing low the bar is. seriously. is this as good as it gets?
In case anyone isn’t already seething about what’s going on with energy. These f**** should be put up against a wall.
Anecdotal I know, but the general reaction when ever I raise these issues at work is usually somewhere between indifference and hostility. People seem to see it as an attack on their own wealth, like you're asking that they themselves pay more tax.
We're still at the stage where Mr and Mrs English want to blame everything on welfare, foreigners and Jeremy Corbyn.
the fact this is true, shows how **** low the bar is. seriously. is this as good as it gets?
That you (or me for that matter) doesnt appreciate the tactic doesnt show the bar is low as such.
Just that it is well targeted at those people who matter, at least in the short term, and not the rest of us.
Those people are looking past the crap presentation (as they should)and are liking the message (this is where I diverge from them).
Truss has been good for several years at somehow perfectly nailing the audience (as per her conservative home results). The question is whether this is chance or her being really good at reading the audience that matters in the moment. The latter gives some hope but sadly I do think its a vain hope.
When the 'relevant audience' is lower than a shakes belly then you need to start digging even deeper into the mire.
Er, so, in response to a few comments up there, we didn’t choose to have twins, and 18 months ago we didn’t have a crystal ball. I wish people would think before they speak.
Might be a couple of more woooshes there edward..
Contrary to admonishing you, many of us appreciate your efforts to prop up the population demographic.
Please let this be the intro music at the next hustings, or at least have it as the outro music on Newsnight..
think this is more applicable!
We’re still at the stage where Mr and Mrs English want to blame everything on welfare, foreigners and Jeremy Corbyn.
And will be for a very long time yet.*
It is a huge part of the reason we are where we are in the first place.
*Except the Corbyn bit - it will just be whatever 'other' politician get's up Thick Lizzie's nose at the time.
dazh
Full MemberIn case anyone isn’t already seething about what’s going on with energy. These f**** should be put up against a wall.
WTAF
Even the Times are saying that Liz Truss needs to take a serious change of direction from the oversexed Honey monster, break with his hardline supporters and start taking the job of government seriously the second she's in number ten, given the gathering storm this winter
https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/1557468518697803779?s=20&t=ww4xe_Xw0Dq5D0V0AOQllQ
The chances of that happening?
Absolutely zero, I'd say. Probably the very best we can expect from that sock puppet is more of the same, though it'll likely be even worse
She's clearly never had an original thought in her entire life and I expect her to be even more devoid of both ideas and the will to actually DO anything as the clown who went before her.
She's even more in thrall to the ultra-Brexiteer nutjobs than Johnson was, so I expect any 'solutions' will be left entirely to 'The Market' this winter, and we may be about to see the same kind of callous disregard for peoples suffering as we saw from her hero in the 80's
I watched Sunak being interviewed by Nick Robinson on the Beeb last night.
The gap in intelligence between him and Pork Markets is seismic, Robinson didn't manage to lay a glove on him and I have to concede that it was down to Sunak's skill rather than Robinson's shortcomings.
If Sunak were to win, then I could see him calling a snap election. He knows how bad things are going to get and is smart enough to know that calling a GE before we put the heating back on could deliver a victory for the Tories.
He's toughened up over the last few months since his annointment got derailed and I think he would get the better of Starmer.
If you want a Labour government then it's hashtag / pray for Liz I'm afraid.