You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Braverman is the attorney general who defended her lawbreaking boss and literally said that it was OK for him to break the law, and ok for him to get gentler treatment than the general public, because "democracy" ie got brexit dun. It's one thing for a Dorres or someone to come out with that sort of shit but she was attorney general. Her job literally includes intervening when people receive overly lenient sentences, and advising and representing the government in legal matters, and she appoints the director of public prosecutions- and she was his handpicked candidate. Imagine any other silk with that level of conflict of interest.
"I will do whatever the Prime Minister asks me to do." She finally managed to criticise him at the last but still wouldnt resign.
What Giuliani was to Trump, Braverman was to Johnson.
I really don't care who wins beyond who would be the least likely to unnecessarily antagonize Russia for personal or party political gain.
Sajid Javid - was linked to CDOs collateralised debt obligations (packaged toxic debt) during the last finance crisis.
These people aren't even good at capitalism.
Vile.
So at a time when people are screaming for help financially, Rishi Sunak the billionaire is standing on a platform of fiscal restraint and austerity. Talk about finger on the pulse! If Starmer is lucky Sunak might actually win.
So at a time when people are screaming for help financially, Rishi Sunak the billionaire is standing on a platform of fiscal restraint and austerity
Arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.
These people are lunatics.
Also it's fine for them to be extremely well off but not okay for everyone else to have some wedge.
They're all just jockeying for position in the stalls. E.g. Badenoch. She's useless but demonstrating that you think you're good enough to be leader, even if delusional, makes you more likely to end up with a position in the next Cabinet even if just a junior minister.
Sunak Vs Braverman in the finals?
You'd hope at that point the membership would be sensible
Most of them have no expectation of leadership, they are kite flying to the eventual winner that their score is rising and they should be considered for a job in the winning cabinet. But Braverman, she's out. I suspect she knows it.
The winner will be the smartest that offers some sort of band-aid to the current problems but dresses it up in a fiscal pissery.
Austerity just doesn't make sense.
Most of them have no expectation of leadership, they are kite flying to the eventual winner that their score is rising and they should be considered for a job in the winning cabinet. But Braverman, she’s out. I suspect she knows it.
Remember the 'money' that financed Johnson's journey and also ensured that a political nobody got a prime seat & then the top Ministerial job? It'll also decide who the next Leader is and IMO it doesn't matter who it is, the 'agenda' is already set.
Steve Baker rules himself out and backs Braverman. Truly the Brexit headbangers choice.
In other news, Ben Wallace rules himself out.
It won't be Wallace - he's just ruled himself out.
Bill has come over to appoint a new "leader"
https://twitter.com/TheFreds/status/1545426873366241282?t=IfEZdhSIXINFmhtRSeENuw&s=19
😂😂😂😂😂
I'm not au fait enough with that particular conspiracy theory - Bill Gates can presumably influence who the next Tory leader is because paedos/5G/microchips/lizards? Or is there more to it?
This really is fiddling while Rome burns taking 3 months to pick a leader while energy prices rise faster than even recent predictions.
https://twitter.com/MartinSLewis/status/1545412960096485376?s=20&t=efJgszohMrqB848z9eDNRA
What’s with all these tories who are first or second generation immigrants, who in one breath hark on about how Fantastic Britain is and the opportunity it’s given them, and in the next crow on about tighter laws on immigration
At least 3 are considering leadership bids
Hypocritical xxxxs
Its quite normal for people from a previous immigration wave to be hostile or even openly racist towards those in the next. Patel and Braverman are classic examples.
Also got to remember many from the wave of Asian immigration actually came out of Africa where many had been very middle class and held establishment positions under British rule, very different backgrounds to many of todays immigrants who are fleeing war zones and countries that have been destroyed through years of comflict.
"BREAKING: Rishi Sunak has explained only he can rebuild the economy that was destroyed by Rishi Sunak"
In the ' you broke it, you fix it' spirit I guess you could say he's showing integrity.
Ugh, Wallace was vile* but least mental wasn't he? Who's the next best option?
*I may have just missed something tho.
"Talk about finger on the pulse! If Starmer is lucky Sunak might actually win."
Agreed, Sunak would be the Labour choice. Angela Rayner might even make little Rishi cry.
Also got to remember many from the wave of Asian immigration actually came out of Africa where many had been very middle class and held establishment positions under British rule, very different backgrounds to many of todays immigrants who are fleeing war zones and countries that have been destroyed through years of comflict.
This is very true
Still makes them xxxxs though in my book!
Maybe it’s just me but out of the options that have a slight chance of winning, Sunak strikes me as the least bad option. Imagine Patel as PM…it doesn’t bare thinking about.
Tpbiker.
Imo its also to do well in the Tory party they need to be more anti immigration and more extreme in an attempt to appeal to the membership. Their tragedy is that they will never be fully accepted. Johnson used them as a fig leaf as well to hide his own racism
According to the Daily Mail… Dorries is thinking of running for leader.
#gonads is trending on twitter 😁
"#gonads is trending on twitter 😁"
You're talking bollocks.
Its quite normal for people from a previous immigration wave to be hostile or even openly racist towards those in the next. Patel and Braverman are classic examples.
I think accusations of racism might be an exaggeration. Lots of people are selfish arseholes, some of them happen to have brown skin.
A white Eton educated Tory politician might well strongly condemn white working-class trade unionists who are engaged in a dispute with an employer of South Asian heritage, but no one would be surprised, or accuse him of being racist. Except for people from far-right organisations who would more than likely express outrage and accuse him of racism.
So yeah, some people with brown skin have embraced Tory values of selfishness, looking after yourself, and **** everyone else.
There could be some tactical voting in the final round of MP votes. The final choice will be made by the party members, some of whom are unlikely to vote for immigrants whose families arrived after 1066. If there's a clear front runner, the second place may be influenced by race.
Nah, she's an air ambulance paramedic. She's just indicating she can't go for lunch as they've got a shout to go to. Apparently there's a disoriented, fat, sweaty bloke trapped in a house on Downing Street.
Or she could have an undeclared second job?
"There could be some tactical voting in the final round of MP votes. The final choice will be made by the party members, some of whom are unlikely to vote for immigrants whose families arrived after 1066. If there’s a clear front runner, the second place may be influenced by race."
Absolutely nails the precariousness of the position we are in.
There has been talk that the Tories will bypass the membership in order to fast track the process. Whilst I think it unlikely I cartainly believe it would be a good thing but I guess they'll have to make their mind up on Monday. That gives 36 hours for other candidates and cabinet appointees to disgrace themselves like Baker and Jenkyns have, which might prompt the 22 to lance the boil.
Bill has come over to appoint a new “leader”
Good lord, followed a few tweets from that and its an awful lot of "the media wont tell you"
Well, except the first one was about farmer protests. And typing in farmers europe brings up pages and pages of news articles about them.
The second one was the protests in Sri Lanka not being reported. Except again it is being reported.
I don’t think sunak can win if it guest to the membership for the final vote. Too brown for the party faithful and not Brexit enough
It's a circus; if mad nad stands it will then become a freak show.
She’s said she won’t.
Meanwhile Zahawi’s tax affairs are being investigated by HMRC, the Mail is publicly soiling itself and the Times is reporting that the various candidates are briefing the Lab front bench about their opponents’ tax affairs, and use of drugs and prostitutes. At least the business about Johnson trying to run is not happening.
It’s all so exhausting.
I don’t think sunak can win if it guest to the membership for the final vote. Too brown for the party faithful and not Brexit enough
And there’s the unresolved issue about the green card; while he’s done nothing illegal under UK law, the Americans might disagree, and either way it doesn’t look great and is an easy line of attack.
What is it about their leadership context that takes so long? You could do it in a week, get everyone who wants to enter to sign their name and submit their bid, then allow one week for all party members to review it, then hold a vote.
Not sure what their multiple stage contest really adds to the process other than giving them three months of free press coverage advertising the party.
If it goes to members, they leave time for hustings, where members can question the 2 final candidates directly. If they want/need to leave members out, they could set the rules on Monday and have a new leader on Wednesday.
If they want/need to leave members out, they could set the rules on Monday and have a new leader on Wednesday.
If there's enough of a majority that want Boris out by Thursday, that might happen.
Since Javid's leading with "only I can fix the economy which I've broken", I guess Javid and Hunt can do the same for the nhs
It's pointless worrying, they'll have about 6-10 going for it, this'll be whittled down to 3 quickly, then the final 2, and it'll be down to whoever makes the most promises that'll win, and then bring those who backed them into positions around their government.
I doubt it'll be a really right winger, or someone too soft, so that's ruling out the likes of Rishi, as a lot of tories see him as pandering to the left too much, and the likes of Braverman, who is a little too unpredictable and to the right for their liking. You'll also lose those who will be taken down by press and leaks, so i'd guess the likes of Hunt and Javid might be checking their credentials.
Apologies if this has been posted already, I haven't read the thread but thought it was worth sharing.
https://twitter.com/g_gosden/status/1545837675554422786
No way she's PM material, she hasn't learned (as of 2017) how to ignore the question and change the subject.
I want a time machine to take me back to 1997 when it felt jolly nice to live in the UK. Thank goodness I'm soon off.
It's absolutely brilliant that the Tories so despise each other that all their secrets are being leaked
https://twitter.com/RhonddaBryant/status/1545903672860839938?t=8eb897hgiNp4avdj6xC5Fw&s=19
each time one announces they aren't running, or has decided to drop out, that's the first thought that comes to my mind - how bad is the shit that someone has on them that they can't risk standing.
I want a time machine to take me back to 1997 when it felt jolly nice to live in the UK. Thank goodness I’m soon off.
Yep, at the start of best period in UK in my lifetime (1995 - 2005). It just felt like there was less bitterness, less hate towards each other.
Lots of reasons for that and I think the pretty much lack of social media and much less used internet was a big part of it worse now, and no 12 years of Tory government obviously.
What damage has Johnson done? Here’s a brief list:
https://twitter.com/peterstefanovi2/status/1545651521358118912?s=21&t=q_tWdzIc88lim3v7D_-QVg
"I believe the Conservative party is the only party capable of giving us good government” says Conservative MP Steve Baker
Imagine his shock when he finds out it’s given us the highest taxation in 70 yrs & the biggest drop in living standards since 1956
I very much doubt that it would come as a shock to Steve Baker - he would argue that was precisely his point. People like Baker would claim that Johnson is not a true Conservative:
He warned that under Boris Johnson the Conservative Party had gone into “the wrong place” and the new Prime Minister must reverse his tax hikes.
Mr Baker said: “I made a speech in the House of Commons saying that the Conservative Party is the wrong place heading in the wrong direction.
So, I would like to see tax cuts straight away.
“That will have to involve hard choices, but it is the right thing to do for everybody in this country.”
By "hard choices" Baker means devastating cuts in spending with scant concern for the inevitable consequences. Baker was strongly opposed to Covid lockdown which unsurprisingly resulted in the greatest upheaval in people's ability to go to work since WW2, the last time the tax burden was higher than it is now. Those on the right of the Tory Party like Baker consider Johnson to more of a socialist than a Tory:
Edit: Based on historical precedence it is an undeniable fact that if low taxation is your priority then a Labour government isn't for you. I don't know what CWU are doing by apparently making the case, as Steve Baker does, for low taxation.
Edit: Based on historical precedence it is an undeniable fact that if low taxation is your priority then a Labour government isn’t for you.
By undeniable you mean you dont want questioning on it?
You need to start by saying which taxes you are talking about and then what your own particular scenario is.
Thatchers reduction in income tax was accompanied by the increase in VAT (so regressive taxation) plus the spaffing away of the North Sea oil and give away of national assets especially housing.
All of which comes with a cost that others have to pay later.
Yep, at the start of best period in UK in my lifetime (1995 – 2005). It just felt like there was less bitterness, less hate towards each other.
Lots of reasons for that and I think the pretty much lack of social media and much less used internet was a big part of it worse now, and no 12 years of Tory government obviously
I agree with that general observation.
There's a cynical frustration between lots of groups of people now. It's like we've become to comfortable with ramming opinions down each others throats. Definitely social media/rolling news/constant debating.
Also after 18yrs of Tory government it was hard not to enjoy the change.
You need to start by saying which taxes you are talking about and then what your own particular scenario is.
This.
Who is paying the tax is more important than the total tax take. The Conservatives (under Johnson&Sunak) tried loading their tax increases towards the lower paid via their NI changes… while telling voters that they wanted to cut their taxes. It was an obvious move to take with one hand (NI) ready to give with the other later (IT cut just before the next election). They even told us as much themselves. Pressure from Labour got them to introduce further NI changes to remove some of the effect of shifting the tax burden to the lower paid. Johnson was no socialist, but he has had to deal with an opposition successfully shining a light on his attempts to shift the tax burden onto workers, especially those on average or below income.
The best quote I've heard so far this week was something along the lines of
"The candidate with the fewest enemies will be the next leader of the conservative party"
I think it might have been Frazer Nelson on R4. Summed it up nicely for me, the only people Tories have more contempt for than the public are one another.
This next episode will take up to around August(ish?) to shake out. So a summer spent in-fighting and briefing against one another is in the offing. They can settle down and pretend to be a unified group again for Q4/22, bit hopefully this will expose the reality of the modern Tory party to the wider public.
The "tax and spend" "Labour are fiscal maniacs trope" is going to be wearing thin come the GE, most of the population are poorer in real terms than they have been for some time, working people are being taxed more heavily, Oil companies are making record profits, Tories have presided over all of it...
I reckon Penny Mordant might get the job, treading the line between appealing to the grass roots whilst not having made too many enemies in Westminster (yet?) Or appearing too closely aligned with Borisconi...
By undeniable you mean you dont want questioning on it?
I am perfectly happy for you to question it. The fact however remains that during the postwar period the occasions when the tax burden as percent of GDP was at its lowest coincided with Tory governments.
Now if want to say that Tory governments have shifted the tax burden away from the wealthy and onto ordinary working people I would have thought that was a given. VAT was half of what it is now in the 1970s, that decade which we are repeatedly told things were terrible and that we should never go back to.
The whole "low tax is great" argument is a Tory myth which Starmer appears committed to maintain, as he grotesquely engages in a competition the Tories over which is the most business friendly low tax party.
I assume that as a traditionally right-wing trade union the CWU is attempting to help Starmer by apparently castigating the Tories for being the party of high taxation.
I quite enjoyed the drama before the resignation, but felt fairly glum after - things aren't going to get much better.
Truss thinking of running on twitter.
yeah , like shes thought of anything else over the last year.
Has a very good chance if she makes it to finals
Carefully curated her PM look for a few months which is all it takes to win over the idiots making up the party faithful.
Would probably do ok in PMQs which is all it takes to get support from MPs
Brexity (now) and mad for the Great Britain bollox the gammons all get a hard on over
Easily manipulated by the donors
Boris lite
I was always slightly disappointed with the New Labour years and then along came the death of Dr David Kelly and the war in Iraq. I see no reason to forgive Mr Blair and the others associated with the decision to go to war based on "sexed up" documents.
I was always slightly disappointed with the New Labour years and then along came the death of Dr David Kelly and the war in Iraq. I see no reason to forgive Mr Blair and the others associated with the decision to go to war based on “sexed up” documents.
It was an introduction to governing in the age of centrist politics for Labour, they were never going to live up to the hype machine that got them in power, but yeah there were a few significant disappointments. It still seems odd that people hold them to a higher standard in some areas than the Tories. By the time of the GE we'll be nudging a decade and a half of Tory rule. Love or loathe them they need a spell in opposition.
Hmm just caught the Penny Mo vid, it’s got spitfires and patriotic music.
Kinda hard to tell if real or a spoof tbh 🙂
You want to know why talking tax cuts are doomed at this level of electioneering?
Here:
https://twitter.com/RichardJMurphy/status/1546067198166401025?t=Ar0n_lixikPwly_NGEYarg&s=19
But it's time and time again this sound bite that sells.
Jeremy Hunt talking old school Tory bullshit but doing it well I'm afraid.
I didn't read that much of Murphy's points but this one stuck out for me:
For those of them who do not know, government spending is a key element in our national income. It is not money wasted. It is part of our national income. So, if they want to cut that part of our income, where do they think the replacement activity is going to come from?
Because whilst the anti-austerity argument was at least momentarily won during the Corbyn years I very much fear that with whoever becomes the next Tory leader austerity will once again rear its ugly head.
Already senior Tories commenting on the replacement for Johnson are talking about "hard" or "difficult" decisions which need to be made, as they prepare to sell austerity to the public. With the current Labour leadership incapable or unwilling to challenge the Tories's economic narrative I fear the worse.
The debt payments are quietly becoming a material burden – Rishi knows this is unsustainable so he ****ed off (he didn’t give a shit about Boris)
Never a problem for a government that issues its own currency - despite what they tell you.
The UK can never default in UKP.
It's a farce they tell you this. And it plays to old fashioned Tories. We do not operate like a household.
With the current Labour leadership incapable or unwilling to challenge the Tories’s economic narrative I fear the worse.
Completely, but when they see economy dives even more someone will have to offer up a realistic alternative.
There will ultimately be no choice. Not sure though where that road ends.
Neolibs are notorious for not recognising any other model or admitting there is another way.
So, if they want to cut that part of our income, where do they think the replacement activity is going to come from?
I think the Tories believe as always the commercial banks will lend and business will kick in - but given interest rates are rising they are putting the brakes on that too.
We really do have an economy bottle-necked at both ends with the Tories.
No real public sector spending and no private sector growth - what the hell do they think will happen?
And Labour stuck in exactly the same zone.
Tip: this is where all the progressive and great minds get together and map out what the country needs and how to resource it - then put people to work with the government paying wages for jobs that would not be created by the private sector.
No crowding out. Private sector will get their trickle down but from the state.
I quite enjoyed the drama before the resignation, but felt fairly glum after – things aren’t going to get much better
It has the potential to be far far worse. They’ll all have noted how our constitution, such as it is, is completely incapable of containing someone who wants to simply ignore it and do what the hell they like. Expect lots of that, whichever one of them gets the poisoned challace. That aspect of Johnson’s behaviour will continue uninterrupted.
They’ll all continue to pander to the ERG headbangers through fear of Farage, so the same ‘Brexit is Brilliant!’ Attitude to be maintained, more culture war shenanigans but all tied in with a far more right wing economic policy… corporate tax cuts and slashing the public sector even more
It’s too depressing for words. The senile old giffers that constitute the Tory membership will probably elect someone absolutely mental like Braverman… a concentration camp guard drawn by Ardman
The senile old giffers that constitute the Tory membership will probably elect someone absolutely mental like Braverman… a concentration camp guard drawn by Ardman
Dunno, Rishi seems the best fit for that:
https://s.yimg.com/os/creatr-uploaded-images/2022-02/da7b91d0-8f5b-11ec-bfcd-6ab66b5f969 d" alt="" />
I see great britsish democracy is in action, Hunt and Javid have both decided to rule out a scottish independence ref for 10 years, in order to score some points with the 0.29% of the uk population who get to decide the new pm, of whom around 10% are in scotland.
(latest estimates are that half of all tory members are over 60, 97% are white, 55% are from the south of england, and 71% are male, and that the 60% increase in members of the last 3 tears is overwhelmingly brexit- and boris- supporting)
Oh FFS!
https://mobile.twitter.com/opiniumresearch/status/1545845791188713472
Fieldwork 6-8 July, right at the height of the Tory crises when Tory ministers were publicly denouncing and turning against their own leader.
A 5% lead for an opposition party is what might be expected under normal midterm conditions, and no reason why a governing party should be unduly worried.
Other recent polls give Labour comfortable double digit leads but I'm not sure if the fieldwork was carried out before Johnson announced his resignation. The Opinium one covers the most recent period.
I believe that Opinium's methodology might be different to some other pollsters as where there are examples of previous Tory voters saying that they will not be voting Tory but not declaring support for another party, Opinium are assuming that come a general election they will probably vote Tory as they haven't declared support for any other party. A reasonable assumption imo as they obviously don't feel strongly enough to declare support for another party. I guess time will tell who has the best methodology.
And imo this is the problem - it's not that the Tories are popular, it's that people are struggling to see a credible and convincing alternative. "We are not members of the Tory Party" has its obvious appeal but it also has its obvious limitations, especially when voters are being reassured "don't worry it's safe to vote for us, we have fundamentally the same policies as the Tories. Maybe. We haven't decided what are policies are yet".
I want a time machine to take me back to 1997 when it felt jolly nice to live in the UK. Thank goodness I’m soon off.
Isn't this what every generation says, i don't remember 1997 as being that much of a glory year, or time to envy, just the same stuff in a different period, same with all the talk about how we're behind everyone in Europe, again that's not exactly true, and almost all nations have just as much baggage as we do, or even more.
As someone above said, the problem isn't really the tory party, its the opposition. There's no way that Labour can win with its shitshow view on brexit. Spineless counts are so busy courting the 10% of their supporters that wanted Brexit that they've lost a huge proportion of the rest. And given our shit voting system that just hands it to the tories.
Liz Truss has entered the race, let the comedy commence 😂
There’s some serious brainboxes in the mix now.
Talking of which, Jeremy Hunt says if he wins he will appoint Esther McVey as deputy leader as - and he actually said this - the Prescott to his Blair
He thinks she appeals to northern voters. I’m going to say that Jeremy has never actually met any northern voters if he thinks Esther McVey is what we’re all crying out for
Who the hell is Rehman Chishti? And why am I already certain he will make a better PM than all the ones I've heard of?
argee
Full Member
Liz Truss has entered the race, let the comedy commence
Yes, thinking the same thing, this is what I've been waiting for!
Many comedy gold moments to come.👍
So, Javid says he'd overturn the NI hike which was brought in to raise NHS funds. Interesting move from a former health secretary. Truss says she'll do the same. Of course both strongly defended the policy when Johnston was in power, with Truss saying it was "obviously needed" and Javid saying it was "essential for the NHS's future"
Truss says "colleagues know I mean what I say" but also that she's "led the way on making the most of the uk's new found freedoms outside the EU", while not being able to give any examples.
Rehman Chrishti is the Mp for Gillingham, he had to apologise a couple of years back for taking donations from a developer he later granted some planning permission. I can't recall the exact details right now.
By undeniable you mean you dont want questioning on it?
A bit like when a colleague said "you can't deny that the Tories are known for economic competence".
I said "by who"?
He was then actually unable to provide any evidence that couldn't be batted away by a quick Google.
Utter marketing bollox.
I was always slightly disappointed with the New Labour years and then along came the death of Dr David Kelly and the war in Iraq. I see no reason to forgive Mr Blair and the others associated with the decision to go to war based on “sexed up” documents.
Based on that then, you'll never be voting Conservative due to the litany of 'offences' during the last 12 years - or are they 'different'?
Jeremy Hunt talking old school Tory bullshit but doing it well I’m afraid.
He's pledged to bring back foxhunting.
It's nice to have a Tory so in touch with modern day issues. Every morning when I wake up my first thoughts are not the cost of living, social care, the climate crisis and so on, it's definitely that I'm no longer allowed to gallop my horse through the countryside killing small animals...