[Closed] So what should we do with these bike thieves

He had long enough to boil the kettle and put some sugar in. That  would have dealt with the problem in a decisive manner.

We had one in the prison I worked in, serial bike thief.

Typical piece of shit but I had to remain 'professional'

It's shit but not a lot ppl can do apart from fall back on insurance. If he had poured boiling water on them it probably wouldn't have done much other than provoke them into doing more damage and potentially coming back for some return visits putting bricks through house windows etc. Even a quick police response probably wouldn't have helped as they were on bikes (presumably stolen) so would likely have gotten away without being identified.

Sometimes I think countries like Saudi Arabia may be on the right track when it comes to punishing thieves...

It's a problem for sure..  I have absolutely no idea what the solution is though.

I'd get a house with a garage.

That’s some pretty blatant thieves right there who were armed with a potential weapon and quite a few of them, not easy to tackle.

He had long enough to boil the kettle and put some sugar in. That would have dealt with the problem in a decisive manner.

Yeah it would have taken them ages to clean their bike helmets

I suppose the solution involves eliminating social and economic inequality. The culture that surrounds theft and it’s relative acceptability also needs to be changed. One would expect to find a relationship between those two points. What we see in that video are symptoms. Punishment deals only with symptoms of a problem, and violent punishment by the State serves only to expand the first point on s/e inequality. It also condones extreme violence and presents it as reasonable. There can be no solution until the problem, and its extent, is identified.

I do believe the police can not give chase any more if they remove their helmets or are helmetless to start with. It's just the **** you attitude in that video that did me. I can't steal your bike but **** you I'll cause you some grief anyway. Utter utter ****ers that need a good hiding, I can't think of any other way to stop them. That's probably a huge no no on here but I'm lost as to what else they need.

I suppose the solution involves eliminating social and economic inequality.

They could've been rich kids doing it for a laugh. I knew kids at school who would go "robbing" for the buzz.

I wouldn't lose any sleep if something happened to them, break their fingers/wrists perhaps

Typical piece of shit but I had to remain ‘professional’

It had to look like an accident?

Introduce Castle Laws like Texas......expand self defense to the protection of property as well.

I would like to thank Teresa may for cutting the police to the bare bones.

Cutting police spending by a quarter will help I'm sure

A tin of paint out of the window would have helped identify them.

What would happen if you saw that while chopping veg in your kitchen?

You then went out with the knife and after being threatened with a hammer you stabbed the thief?

Pretty brazen, still only stuff though .

Stop the war on drugs.  Most theft is done to fund drug habits

still only stuff though.

Completely get where you’re coming from, but ‘stuff’ = money = time spent earning = life that you’re not going to get back. And if you’re buzzing around on a moped, there’s a fair chance that that moped is worth a lot of worked hours. I don’t suppose many people own a moped as a lifestyle choice, they own one because it’s the most cost effective way to get about, when you are of limited means.

pretty shitty crime really.

Like many thieves, I’m pretty certain they do it because it’s a relatively easy way to get hold of nice stuff without actually needing to earn the money necessary to go and buy them.

Sure, drugs are one motive, but greed and laziness are another, the “oh, I like that, but I can’t be arsed to work, so I’ll just take it” attitude. Runs second to wanton vandalism, “ I can’t steal it, so if I can’t have it, they can’t”, so it gets smashed up.

Most theft is done to fund drug habits

I'd agree with that Jeremy, from a matter of experience!

But do we let everyone turn into smackrats?

It's a personal choice but I choose to go on the offensive (immediately)  and to be blunt I am a horrible piece of work in these situations.

I don't shout or engage I simply get stuck in and it frightens the shit out of the scumbags and I am happy to take the consequences either way.

I am not a "hard" man I just understand how people react when physically attacked.

Folks we all need to step up a bit, these "people" are not used to being challenged physically without any prior "vebal" interaction.

I am not a “hard” man I just understand how people react when physically attacked.

Now, I wouldn't be suprised if there are a few types like this on here - after there will be a fair few who are here because they are thrill seekers and fall into the "fight" as opposed to "flight" response.

Remember though, getting the first punch in on drunken idiots who aren't used to fighting isn't the same ballgame as picking a fight with someone who has the balls to break into your house. Just remember that and stay safe. You're all a good bunch really and I know your bikes are your babies, but people will use hammers, icepicks etc - so please be careful.

Make sure that your loved ones are safe, first and foremost - and don't needlessly risk ending up being a statistic if you're a family man, pick your battles wisely.

Chain saw and they would clear off just be more mental than them !

In a 'situation' I reckon my 1st words could be, 'I recognise you from C wing you ****ing prick'

This could turn out to be true.

It’s a personal choice but I choose to go on the offensive (immediately)...

I like your style. Sometimes there's just nothing to say.

Never had a problem with anyone drunk and would never bother someone who is simply pissed.

Most humans are programmed roughly the same way, every altercation i have had has been stone cold sober, middle of the day situations.

The last one was when three 18 to 20 year old lads threw away their Terrys chocolate orange boxes walking down the local high street, I picked them up and asked the lads to put it in the bin. I was promptly told to **** off or they would batter me?  One ended up on his arse wondering why his nose was broken and the other two ran away.

I don't doubt one day I will get hurt, but I can not walk away.

4 people armed with hammers and angle grinder  - wading in fist flying is not  my initial response

I dont see that you can do much more than what they did. Hurl abuse whist waiting for plod.  Let them take  my things if they get the chain off. its not worth dying for or killing for as its insured. Would i be happy of course not but there are few people who  can be confident of winning that exchange.

FWIW the only time i caught someone attempting to steal my property [ car they broke into by smashing drivers window with a brick setting off the alarm]  three important things happened

1.  I put the crowbar down as I walked over - I was working on something so using it at the time but i dd not want to go out tooled up.

2. I calmly restrained the  heroin addict with the assistance of a neighbour and called plod

3. Plod arrived amazed he was uninjured and offered to drive off and come back in 5 minutes time - it was clear what they were suggesting. We  declined

Basically I did what I advise others to do . Obey the law  and injure no one unless you have to because you are under imminent danger. He posed zero threat to me and was many things but handy or big was not  amongst them.

Last incident I had was a bloke beating a small (and not at all threatening) dog with a golf club. I didn't say a word until afterwards.

Strangely I did actually end up regretting that one as he turned out to be a policeman and I could have hurt him far more by other means, hindsight eh? EDIT (missus had photo evidence and there was a witness)

Like oldman said, I don't see myself as hard and I'm certainly not trying to boast. It's just a different way of doing things. Put me in a confrontational situation via letter/email like a legal battle and I've got nothing, I just don't have the confidence etc. to fight that way. It's just different is all.

still only stuff though .

Spoken like a man who's never been on the receiving end.  It's not the "stuff," it's the violation.

I don’t doubt one day I will get hurt, but I can not walk away.

This is kind of me.  I'm ten stone wet through but have no sense of personal safety.  I have no doubts that it'll get me killed at some point.

I suppose the solution involves eliminating social and economic inequality

Totally agree.  However that is much too difficult and would have an impact on the better off so let's just lock them up or cut off their hands as it makes people feel better.

To be fair you'd struggle to use a 4" grinder with no hands so perhaps that's the answer. In fact you'd probably struggle to subsequently ride the bike so yeah, let's get chopping!

I don’t doubt one day I will get hurt, but I can not walk away.

you broke someone's nose over a terry's chocolate orange box? would that exchange have been worth 15 years of your life?

giving someone a broken nose is one thing, but people can and do die in these situations.

guy did the right thing there as there were four of them but you can't identify them.  Bikes they were on were probably stolen too.

I suppose the solution involves eliminating social and economic inequality. The culture that surrounds theft and it’s relative acceptability also needs to be changed. One would expect to find a relationship between those two points. What we see in that video are symptoms. Punishment deals only with symptoms of a problem, and violent punishment by the State serves only to expand the first point on s/e inequality. It also condones extreme violence and presents it as reasonable. There can be no solution until the problem, and its extent, is identified.

There is clearly some truth in this. I think it's also fair to say there are a sizable chunk of folk who are exposed through the media to 'celebs' living a lifestyle beyond normal people's means and living day to day in a world of cleverly marketed consumerism that breeds a sense of entitlement and necessity. And to some that false gap between need and perceived and cultivated want can be solved instantly and painlessly by nicking it from others. To reiterate it is not normal to thieve from others. The overwhelming majority of people in low socio-economic groups and with mediocre prospects don't resort to this. We have to be very careful not to excuse the behaviour of the few because of societies inequity. Besides, there is still plenty of crime in the chattering classes; it's just they are a bit brighter and have more opportunity to do it in slicker and less in your face ways. It's as much about how people are wired and their moral compass.

I suppose the solution involves eliminating social and economic inequality. The culture that surrounds theft and it’s relative acceptability also needs to be changed. One would expect to find a relationship between those two points. What we see in that video are symptoms. Punishment deals only with symptoms of a problem, and violent punishment by the State serves only to expand the first point on s/e inequality. It also condones extreme violence and presents it as reasonable. There can be no solution until the problem, and its extent, is identified.

I find myself agreeing with this.

Round 'em up, put 'em in a field and bomb the bastards.

Folks we all need to step up a bit, these “people” are not used to being challenged physically without any prior “vebal” interaction.

I think this was OK advice 20+ years ago but in the current climate of senseless stabbings and acid attacks etc. I just don't think it's worth the risk - especially in this situation with 4 blokes, at least one of them with a hammer and with added protection of crash helmets. I'm 6ft and 16st but no chance am I physically confronting them and hoping it's enough to scare them off without them attacking me first.

This is kind of me.  I’m ten stone wet through but have no sense of personal safety.  I have no doubts that it’ll get me killed at some point.

Oh well, you win some you lose some.

All the people saying "oh but it's social inequality's fault, they're victims of society not subhuman little scrotes" miss the point that plenty of us here and out in the real world grew up on the poor/underprivileged end of the scale and didn't resort to feral behaviour & theft. We learned that if we wanted something, we worked hard to get it.

Stop excusing these little rats - carrot is the wrong approach, they need a bit of stick and put some fear back. At the moment, gangs like these actively mock the police and authorities (see the recent Bristol bike takers) as they feel untouchable.

 I’m ten stone wet through but have no sense of personal safety.  I have no doubts that it’ll get me killed at some point.

Serious question what monetary value are you putting on your own life? £10 property £100? £1000? What value do you think those who will miss you when you are dead will think "well it was worth him dying for that"?

which is a fair point, but beating the crap out of them is unlikely to teach them a lesson other than 'get stabby first, ask questions later'.

edit @ andy's comment.

Stop excusing these little rats

Identifying abstract influences, separate from individual responsibility, does not excuse individual responsibility. It certainly doesn't miss any 'point'. You have a somewhat narrow, blinkered view of the question. What do you think the question is?

 Serious question what monetary value are you putting on your own life? £10 property £100? £1000? What value do you think those who will miss you when you are dead will think “well it was worth him dying for that”?

You seem to be under the misapprehension that there's a rational thought process involved here.

Besides, as I said before, it's not about the 'stuff', it's a violation.  A complete stranger is in your home, going through your things and your life.  It's hard to explain if you've not experienced it, it left me scarred for years.

True story - ex girlfriend had her car broken into and vandalised. They caught the bloke and it went to court, he was let off with 150 hrs of community service. His address was published and being young, dumb and...well, very angry I decided that I’d pay him a visit with a mate. Now, we’re both quite big lads, however I look like a fat geek and my mate isn’t much more threatening. On arriving at the house we saw the bloke in question. He was huge. Like properly huge. And VERY scary looking.

Now I’m not entirely sure what my plan was going to be if I’d knocked on his door, it would probably have been the delivery of a line from God father. However having seen the bloke I would have played the role of Pizza delivery boy and legged it. We both decided from the comfort of my car that we’d give this one a miss and go get some chips.

The likelihood is that someone breaking into a house tooled up is probably used to altercations - in other words they’ve probably been in a few fights. As long as my family is safe then they can take what they need. I hate it yes, but it’s better than having my family hurt to save a few bikes or whatever.

The bloke that did over my girlfriends car went on to steal a pensioners car and killed the owner by reversing over him several times. I’m pretty glad we stayed in the car that evening...

There is a slow creep of this stuff getting worse in scale. It is very worrying that these groups have the confidence to be so brazen about it.

I feel that the shortage in police numbers are really effecting people's attitudes towards crime (participation in on one side, and intolerance of on the other).

2 Incidents that stand out for me recently although not bike related are as follows:

Criminals hopped the fence into the "secure" yard at my workplace and smashed the windows in on a works van to get the locking wheel nut tool. They then took all 4 wheels from the van (smart VW alloys). Dropped the van on it's sump/discs/exhaust and took off. Left a screwdriver that they used to try the office doors with, and the wheelie bin that they used to take the wheels to the fence and climb over. Called the police and they just sent a crime number. No scene visit. No dusting for prints. Just here's a crime number, contact your insurance.

On holiday in France, got back from a night out to discover that the house we were staying in was broken into and turned over for cash and jewellery. French police were prompt on the scene to secure the area and check for any trace of the intruders. What got my goat was that the people sharing the gite with us were incensed at the idea that someone had broken into the house but then inflated their insurance claims to include numerous expensive items that they didn't have... obviously missing the irony of that process.

Theft is becoming acceptable at this level to many in society meaning that the other end of the scale appears to be moving up as well. It's a worrying trend indeed.

This is kind of me.  I’m ten stone wet through but have no sense of personal safety.  I have no doubts that it’ll get me killed at some point.

But you'll have learned a valuable lesson in the process and won't do it again 🙂

The whole 'get stuck in' thing has the potential to go badly wrong when, say, the guy you've smacked in the face keels over and smashes his head on a kerbstone leaving you facing a charge of manslaughter.

Being reluctant to accidentally kill people doesn't necessarily make you an apologist for crime or social disorder. Think of it as self-preservation in the wider sense.

No dusting for prints.

After having had my garage all but emptied a few years ago (targeted theft of most of my bikes, all my tools and spares, ~£7k before excess) police did come round to dust for prints, but at the time they said that it pretty pointless as thieves aren't complete idiots. You can get a box of 100 nitrile gloves for £13 from Halfords[*], half that from Amazon.

[*] - Quite possibly free for someone whose moral compass already accepts breaking and entering, theft etc as OK.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

All the people saying “oh but it’s social inequality’s fault, they’re victims of society not subhuman little scrotes” miss the point that plenty of us here and out in the real world grew up on the poor/underprivileged end of the scale and didn’t resort to feral behaviour & theft. We learned that if we wanted something, we worked hard to get it.

That's great, if you can do it then everyone can as everyone is exactly the same as you and has had exactly the same upbringing and influences.  Not everybody's real world is the same...

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

What do you think 'good men' should do then?

What do you think ‘good men’ should do then?

Post about it on the internet? 😀

Post about it on the internet?

Lol!

Most issues I've ever had have been near my home, so I have bit my lip rather than have a feud with local yoofs who know my address!  These days, I play golf with youngsters who hit the ball so much further than me, it makes me realise that physically I couldn't fight anyone 30 years younger than me and hope to have a chance.

So I tend to keep a low profile these days.  I might not be very hard but I have all my own teeth!

Actually, one of the scariest stories around here,(in leafy Surrey) was not more than half a mile away, A Polish builder with a grudge broke into a house to stab the owner and ended up killing him and his wife in the bedroom in a bloodbath...the wife trying to save her husband.  He left the traumatised son alone in his bedroom.  Imagine that, someone intent on killing you comes into your bedroom in the middle of the night....you'd certainly fight then!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-32145937

Tragic!

What do you think ‘good men’ should do then?

https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/murder-or-reasonable-force/

Del I broke his nose because he threatened to batter me not because he threw his chocolate box away.

If he had aplogised for his littering and placed it in the bin we would have all gone home happy.

I think this was OK advice 20+ years ago but in the current climate of senseless stabbings and acid attacks etc. I just don’t think it’s worth the risk – especially in this situation with 4 blokes, at least one of them with a hammer and with added protection of crash helmets. I’m 6ft and 16st but no chance am I physically confronting them and hoping it’s enough to scare them off without them attacking me first.

This cuts to the heart of the issue I think, we're seeing escalating violence in robberies and what happens is that homeowners get nastier, then the robbers themselves get nastier - it's an arms race.

which is a fair point, but beating the crap out of them is unlikely to teach them a lesson other than ‘get stabby first, ask questions later’.

Del made a good point in regards to this.

Fighting can be fairly amusing, even if you're getting pasted. It's just that sometimes, they end up resembling this 

- it just gets a bit pointless, depressing and unless you can live with resorting to that level of violence - pretty shit and if you can't then you may get your head kicked in anyway.

I'd rather go home to my missus....

On influences in society

Crime rates go up and down with the prosperity of the country.  when people become relativly poorer crime goes up, when people become relatively richer crime goes down

Societies that are more equal have less crime

Societies that use jail more and have punitive approach to crime have more crime, societies that us a rehabilitation approach in the criminal justice system have less crime.  Jails are simply finishing schools for criminals when all you do is warehouse them

All 3 things are well proven

People on here are confusig influences on society as a whole and individual responsibility.  Two very different things

I have a compound bow that’ll punch through a few mm of sheet steel at decent range.

Elevated position + stationary targets (the bikes) would make for an easy and effective display.

You should be allowed to defend yourself and your property.

YOu are allowed to using reasonable force.

Crime rates go up and down with the prosperity of the country.  when people become relativly poorer crime goes up, when people become relatively richer crime goes down

This is so true.

Our area is being blighted again with burnt out cars smack bang in Sherwood Forest. I don't apologise for politicising this but the last time this happened was very much under Tory rule.

The trickle down politics do not work. What you need is schemes that local authorities run that engage the bottom end of society. These sort of things quickly get removed when the right wing take hold.

For the clip, I might be tad hesitant but I would probably go outside with as many people as I can muster. It doesn't have to end in death. These scooter kids don't like hanging around too long and prefer not to be slowed down.

There is a risk that something could go wrong but i would say 'worth it.'

My push bike was stolen in broad daylight by scrotes on a moped in a country park right in front of us. They were wearing tshirts over their faces with cut out eyes. We couldn't believe what we were seeing but we have chase, a hard bloke from Doncaster joined in and rang the police (helicopter, cars everything) .

We got the bike back.