[Closed] So, this volcano, worst case scenario?

Boats?

Engine Filters?

MTFU?

Even if it did continue for ages I don't think the problem would be permanent - the winds do change direction fairly frequently.

Engine Filters?

<Chuckles at the slightly mental thought of a filter on a jet engine>

they will find a way around it and the idea of engine filters is quite easily put in place but the questions is how long does it have to go on before they do somthing like that....weeks....months?

worst case scenario is it remains to be a natural 'act of god' and we end up with no one to blame/sue.

GMTV said this morning that we could blame the French but i'm sot so sure

I think they'll just decide that as long as the planes stay below x,000 feet they'll be ok and take the hit on fuel consumption.

The eruption may last for years but the glacier that is one of the major reasons why there is so much ash won't last that long. I'm fairly sure that the current weather conditions over Europe are unlikely to last that long either.

Drop a few tonnes worth of Alka Seltzer in the hole, that should sort it out.

On a serious note, we're meant to be going to the states in June, not now booking hotels till nearer the time, just in case!

the idea of engine filters is quite easily put in place

Are you aware of the pressure loss a filter capable of removing such fine particles would create and the risk it would pose? No chance in hell it would ever be implemented. We're not talking a K&N and an induction kit here, we're talking engines that swallow tons of air and exhaust at ~60,000mph.

Personally, I'd rather not MTFU at 33,000 feet, if that's OK with you!

AIUI part of the problem is caused by the High pressure that's giving us such corking riding weather at the mo - that's giving a northerly airflow from iceland to us then spreading it over europe. as soon as we get a decent low pressure with wind & rain come rolling over the atlantic we'll be back to a SWly airflow and the dust will be blown away from UK airspace. according to the [url= http://www.ecmwf.int/products/forecasts/d/charts/medium/deterministic/msl_uv850_z500 ]ECMWF[/url] that's not looking likely for a few more days yet though.

so, dusty trails or air travel - you can have one or the other...

dusty trails please.

Engine Filters?

piston engines are more likely solution

[img] [/img]

[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Merlin ][b]MEATY BOY[/b][/url]

I think i'd move under the heathrow flightpath if every plane had a few of those strapped to it, glorious sound

the idea of engine filters is quite easily put in place

I'm thinking a pair of tights from a really really big girl, stretched over the engine...like if you're hoovering for something lost. Have I hit on an idea?

Isn't there a risk that the volcano, which is only one of about 4 in the region, could kick off all it's mates which would make the problem ten times worse?

So anyway, will pollution go up or down compared to normal now with no planes in the sky but one dirty great volcano spewing masses of sulphur dioxide out?

I'm gonna build a big, unsinkable boat to profiteer from folk needing to cross the Atlantic....
Titanic, I think I'll call her....

Seriously though - it would be a case of back to basics - Easy Ship, Sail Bee, British Sailway* would all be up and running before you knew it... heck - might even promote a overhaul of the railway system...

don't forget Ryan-Walk - charging you to walk anywhere, with a surcharge for using your own shoe leather...

<wakes up, with head in the cornflakes>

Are all the Gaia people saying it's the earth fighting back against global warming from air travel?

piston engines are more likely solution

Not sure piston engines are any less susceptible to the problem, in fact possibly more so, especially as they often use super/turbochargers to get their power up, which effectively has turbines in it too... And none of them are sized large enough to carry anything like the volume of people/cargo that jet engines allow.

pretty sure piston engines are fine, there's still piston engined aircraft flying in and out of Coventry airport at the moment and it's been touted as a solution for extremely high priority flights.

We'll all be flying about in Hercules soon, arriving deaf!

don't hercules operate on turboprops which i guess would suffer the same problem (from my limited knowledge)

pretty sure piston engines are fine, there's still piston engined aircraft flying in and out of Coventry airport at the moment and it's been touted as a solution for extremely high priority flights.

That's probably more to do with the height at which they can fly than anything fundamental about the design of the engine. The fine dust will still tend to clog things up, even in a piston engine and if it is as abrasive as is being implied it would also tend to damage the pistons themselves.

worst case scenario - the world will end.

Im amazed at the fact that the news coverage hasnt been its usual useful over-sensationalisation of the actual facts! When you think how they managed to blow the world out of the water with their credit crunch reporting on what started as a rather inocuous blip on the financial radar, this is back page by comparison!
Its almost as if they have been warned not to report big on this! When you think of the possible ramifications of this should it continue for any length of time, its amazing they arent shouting armageddon!!!!

you can't just fly the planes lower. thers still a risk of some ash lower in the atmostphere, and the consequences of losing 4 engines whilst flying low are much worse than at 35000ft.

looks like it could continue anyway...
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18786-get-ready-for-decades-of-icelandic-fireworks.html

coffeeking - Member
Not sure piston engines are any less susceptible to the problem, in fact possibly more so, especially as they often use super/turbochargers to get their power up, which effectively has turbines in it too... And none of them are sized large enough to carry anything like the volume of people/cargo that jet engines allow.

Incorrect, it's been around for a while now...

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Funny that, I said the same Day One.

Based on reading this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1883_eruption_of_Krakatoa

just needs a bit of a spruce up to get it airworthy again 😉

What are the actual chances that a plane taking off from Heathrow on Saturday to fly to New York would have crashed?

I've a sneaking suspicion we'll MTFU and accept slightly worse odds rather than allowing the collapse of our civilisation. 🙂

I've a sneaking suspicion we'll MTFU and accept slightly worse odds rather than allowing the collapse of our civilisation.

And I've a slightly less sneaking ffffing suspicion that you're very ffffing wrong old chap! 😉
Well, for me anyway. I crap my pants every time I fly!

I blame Thatcher & the miners for the whole fiasco 🙄

My brother in-law who works for sleazy jet (manager on the maintence side) seems quite worried that its going to have a massive effect on air travel long term but the long and short of it is that we just don't know. Its all down to mother nature and things could be (almost) back to normal within a few days, well except for the back log of passengers stuck around europe 😯

Yep I'm with PP on that. I hate flying at the best of times. MTFU is not something you want to do in a tin can at 35'000ft !!!!

Worse case?
I'd have to go without exotic fruit and source my flowers elsewhere 🙄

worst case scenario is somehow it disturbs and sets off Yellow stone and the world goes from being round to kind of "jaffa cake, half moon" shaped and subsequntly develops a hell of a wobble and we all fall off.

😀
win

Incorrect, it's been around for a while now...

Yup, and there's thousands of them kitted out and ready to fly passengers everywhere.... 🙂

[i]MTFU is not something you want to do in a tin can at 35'000ft !!!! [/i]

Isn't the point that you are already putting up with a small and carefully managed risk of fiery death? If the volcano increases the risk tenfold (and I've no idea if that's the right order of magnitude at all - somebody?) then it still rounds down to nil pretty easily. It'll be fine. Especially if there was a parachute under your seat. 😀

Remember though - [url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8629160.stm ]every cloud has a silver lining[/url]

Remember though - every cloud has a silver lining

That is indeed a blessing. 😀

Dust off a couple of Concordes! 🙂 Thread them up through thinner patches of the dust, 60,000 feet cruise, charge what you like, job done, it could pay to keep one flying for special doos! 🙂

Anyone else see a great future for airships 🙂

It's not just the safety aspect: it's the damage to the planes. If they have to have new engines / refurbs and new cockpit glass every few flights, it'll make air travel uneconomic.

can't the Americans blow it up, that usually fixes things, no ?

Why hasn't anyone called international rescue yet? They're set up to solve these sort of problems.

1143 Dutch airline KLM tweets: KLM test flight Amsterdam-Paris landed safely at 11.40hrs. Technical inspection points out: no problems detected.

1143 Dutch airline KLM tweets: KLM test flight Amsterdam-Paris landed safely at 11.40hrs. Technical inspection points out: no problems detected.

Yes, because a commercial operator wouldnt be biased. no sir-ree....

Dunno how you check the engine wear after one flight. I suspect the honeycomb the turbines are sealed against is probably the biggest problem, that suff is the reason emirates planes need more services than anyone else.

Ekranoplan? 500knots, 20-60 feet cruise height and possibly the coolest way to travel! 🙂

Channel 4 are reporting that Nato F16's have sufffered engine damage from ash 'ingestion'

... and flying one plane safely is very different to filling the skies with loads of full planes carrying passengers, especially when almost all airports run at capacity with not much spare runway space to cope with problems.

Ekranoplan? 500knots, 20-60 feet cruise height and possibly the coolest way to travel!

EKRANOPLAN!!!!! Yay! 😀

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The blue sky on Saturday with no clouds and no vapour trails was wonderful, so more of those please!

+1 for Ekranoplans. Absolutely awesome devices, in the true sense of the word.

weren't they supposed to be the US's worst nightmare come true being almost completely invisible to radar and sonar?

Untill they found out that they took so much computing power to keep them in the 'air' they had no space left to carry any wepons!

Worst case scenario, my 2 year stay in Ethiopia, becomes longer...

I was hoping to come home in a couple of weeks as well...

What happens if my flight is cancelled? Do I get my money back?

Untill they found out that they took so much computing power to keep them in the 'air' they had no space left to carry any wepons!

I'd imagine you can get an app for that now though. 🙂

Volcanic ash shags planes completely - fact. If you think you can dodge the clouds of ash (that you can't see) then okay.. but I'll not be on that plane.

Ekranoplans are great. But how do I fly to the middle of Europe with one?

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[img] [/img]

clever use of a wide angle lens to make that shoebox look like a room

That's not a room its the inside of a container.
Now there's an idea for super easy cruise just furnish a container ship.

but I'll not be on that plane.

Molgrips, earlier:

[img] [/img]

Nanny state strikes again. Wonder what the odds are for being on a plane that is brought down by volcanic ash? I'm due to fly on Saturday and prepared to take my chances.

Hardly the 'nanny state' if 'planes have been grounded because there is a clear risk of damage, and of loss of life.. 🙄

[url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8629674.stm ]I notice BA want 'compensation' from th EU and the Government for being grounded. [/url]

FFS, so, can I sue the Government if there's a sudden unexpected thunderstorm that means I get soaked, or have to stay at home???

mike-at-dialledbikes - Member
Nanny state strikes again. Wonder what the odds are for being on a plane that is brought down by volcanic ash? I'm due to fly on Saturday and prepared to take my chances.

Well, seeing as there are 2 confirmed reports of planes flying through ash clouds and one was a BA flight that lost power to all 4 engines, I'd say about 50/50. 😛

I have my folding bike. How long to cycle back? [ages]

What’s the difference between the Icelandic volcano and Cheryl Cole?

The volcano is still blowing Ash.

Try the veal! I'm here all week!

IGMC

worst case scenario-loss of air traffic!?!

anybody heard of the Laki fissure? year without a summer etc- global cooling, destruction of crops, worldwide famine, water course acidity...millions will die....millions!!!!

well it could happen thats all im saying, volcanoes are the number 1 risk to human extinction i.m.o.

i liked the way Willie Walsh went up on the test flight, i bet the transport union were praying it didn't go well

I bet Willie was wishing they'd gone on strike this week too 😆

volcanoes are the number 1 risk to human extinction i.m.o.

statistically speaking i'd imagine humans present the biggest risk of human extinction

volcanoes are the number 1 risk to human extinction i.m.o.

How do volcanoes stop human extinction?

😀

possibly true, although the chances of total human extinction by humans is lower due to self preservation which would (hopefully) ensure some people survived...unlike the numerous volcanoes, calderas and super volcanoes which are far less forgiving.

WE'RE DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMEEEEEDDDDDD!!!!!!!!

Run away, run away...!

😆 if i had the spare time id love to dress like a crazy man with a billboard and spread such optimistic words 😀

Human ingenuity knows no bounds. See that volcano joke above. Amazing.

OK, I shall start taking bets -

I'm off on holiday to India next Fridey (1st [u]May[/u] - Date corrected for the clever clogs of STW!) evening. Will I -

a) Leave and return as planned - 3:1
b) Go nowhere - Evens
c) Get stuck in Dheli - 6:1
d) Die on the way out - 4:1
e) Die on the way back - 8:1

well you'd be a month late for a start

I am about to book flights for 17th May...

currently booked to go to barcalona for the gp in 3 weeks begining to think it may not happen

currently booked to go to barcalona for the gp in 3 weeks begining to think it may not happen

I reckon it'll be OK by them

as for the GP - that's one of the most boring of the season - usually
so it may be a blessing in disguise 😉

Was there an evil lair inside this cave that is no longer?