[Closed] So tell me I'm a Sh*t parent

Stick at it. We have the internet go off at a reasonable time midweek, with s little longer at weekends.

Been through it with my son, but he has now learnt but both parents are together, so we at least have each others back.  We've had the temper issues and even recently had to sit on my 18 year old till he calmed down (internet restriction and way too high blood sugars (he is type 1).

Controlling gaming seems to be the biggest carrot.

It wont be easy, he will play on it, but stick to your guns.  Your ex. Sounds like a mare, and making false acusations like that is seriously low.

You are doing a good job.

I turn into a miserable angry **** when I have too much game time, sugar and too little sleep. Oddly if I spend the same amount of time reading it doesn’t impact me...

online gaming and smartphones were sent by the devil to make lives harder...

You are not a Sh*t parent.

<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">Raising kids is tough.</span>

<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">My thoughts:</span>

<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">Set definite targets - not just a non-defined "good behaviour": no swearing, no aggression. Breaking this results in a warning and then the phone being taken off him for the night / a day.  </span>You need to be able to repeat these targets daily so a long ban is self-defeating.

Set rewards too for good or expected behaviour (money or otherwise). Phone downstairs at 9pm, finishing homework.

Might be worth contacting the school, particularly if his behaviour is impacting his behaviour there. <span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">There might be support they can offer too.</span>

Maybe go with earning access? Reward good behaviour with x minutes per day on each device.

It's difficult for anyone to 'behave' for an unspecified period of time with no real idea of what that means and then what do you do - just revert to previous unlimited use?

Go for a structure that is clear and agreed by both of you - you'll just end up fighting over access for ever otherwise.

He will grow up and out of this but it doesn't help now.

The fact that you a. Care and b. Are trying makes youba lot better than a lot of parents. Sorry but I have no practical advice other than sit him down, explain it and then try to stick to it.

I went through very similar with my ex’s eldest son, his violent anger issues were down to his abusive father though (not suggesting you are!!). I couldn’t cope with him/it as I couldn’t understand and had no clue how to deal with him.

As hard as it may be to get him to admit he needs help have you tried some sort of talking therapy for him? He may have unresolved anger issues from the split, and like you’ve said, it wasn’t an easy split with his Mum making it as difficult as she could.

Best of luck to you all, I know how stressful and awful it is for you

You're not a sh*t parent. We've had similar, though not as bad.

I don't have any wise advice I'm afraid.

Someone once said to me that when they turn into teenagers, life becomes a roller-coaster, and you just have to hold on as hard as you can.

It gets better when they're older and/or leave home.

IANAP - so it's probably easy to me to suggest.

But if my child was behaving in such a way, he'd be having a few life lessons & to be honest, i'd half be expecting it, if I was a little sh*t behaving like that.

Firstly, his room would be stripped of everything. As and when he proves he's adult enough to behave himself, things get re-introduced in a controlled manner. If he wants to do anything, he can read a book. Reward good behaviour & show him that bad behaviour has consequences.

And probably the hardest bit, if he assaults you, or threatens you with a knife again, call the police & press charges. He needs to learn actions have consequences. If he's prepared to do that to his own parent, you have no idea how he would react so someone else.

I think what I’m seeing is different rules for each parent.  It’d be nice if the two of you could manage the same rules for him but I’m guessing that either not going to be easy or won’t happen.

My interpretation either correctly or incorrectly is he sees you at the bad one because you are denying him the things that his mum lets heim do.

How about replacing them with some alternatives so the phone and PS are no longer the focal point?  For example next time you have him, arrange to go Go Karting together or similar, something a teenage boys would love to do that might also result in some better bonding time for both of you.

When you’ve been out and thrashed each other around a track, give him a hug and let him zone out on the PS for a bit.

P.S.- not a bad parent.  Its a vary hard job with very little in the way of “instructions”, you’ve done well to come on here and be brave enough to ask for some help IMO, well done.

I expect this isn't unusual and you're doing a good job.

Nothing to add, except I think if you're going to take the playstation (or whatever) away it would be good to offer some kind of displacement activity. I've recently given up overeating and that's only worked out because I've added extra rides in to take up the time I used to spend on the sofa eating crap. What the substitute would be for a 13yo lad I don't know. (Laser quest or somesuch?)

My lad, 16, probably spends too much time staring at screens... it's just what they do these days.

He's on mock exams at the moment, so as long as he's doing revision and that's where his focus is, it's all ok.

With me 3 days a week, would love it to be 50/50, but really don't know how I'd deal with what you're going through - just hope, like all the shit they give us from birth, it's a phase... and he'll move on to the next one...

You’re doing a grand job.

Teenagers are mostly dicks.

I hope they’ll grow out of it.... because, according to social services, Tasering your own kids is, apparently, “not cool”.

The fact that you a. Care and b. Are trying makes you a lot better than a lot of parents.

This

And probably the hardest bit, if he assaults you, or threatens you with a knife again, call the police & press charges. He needs to learn actions have consequences. If he’s prepared to do that to his own parent, you have no idea how he would react so someone else.

Not this.

I am a parent but also have a bit of first hand knowledge of this not from my own, but from my BiL who is quite a bit younger than my wife (his sister) so he was a 15/16yo when we started going out.

And kids behave differently to their parents compared to others, because they're their parents. He was an absolute shit to his parents (thieving, threats, etc.) but to the outside world, like a different kid. There was an excellent documentary on this.

You just have to love them unconstitutionally. They just have to tolerate you.

If its any consolation they are genetically pre disposed to this type of behaviour and will return to normal later.

Just try not to shout even though its the hardest thing in the world to fo.

"Someone once said to me that when they turn into teenagers, life becomes a roller-coaster, and you just have to hold on as hard as you can.

It gets better when they’re older and/or leave home."

Yeh this. I used to scoff at that advice as I thought I was a seasoned and half decent parent and my kids were/are pretty good and well adjusted. But **** me I was naive, that dramatically changed around 18.

In my opinion and experience, I think we (society) have created the perfect storm of creating highly dependent kids which is in direct conflict to the fact they are biologically wired to reject you. Dependent because we make it so hard for them to achieve independence; high rent/house prices, extended education, modern luxury and comfort (phones, etc.). There are massive conflicting demands on youngsters - see also social media. It's a shit storm and you just have to ride it out.

You just have to love them unconstitutionally.

well I laughed.

I will probably get roasted on here for saying this but

Next time he threatens you physically, punch him hard and square on the nose. He is physically as big as you now and is therefore testing his dominance over you. Show him you are still the alpha in the house and you will get his respect back.

ps. don't do this, I don't really mean it. Back when I was a teenager I never disrespected my parents as I knew this would be the consequence. Lots of people say it, and its kinda true, kids nowadays know that you cant do this and they can do/say whatever they like and nothing will happen in return.

I think what I’m seeing is different rules for each parent

This is the part that leaps out for me. It makes things so much harder.

The fact that you a. Care and b. Are trying makes you a lot better than a lot of parents.

Quoting this again because it is true.

Damn autofill!!!

A modern games console can be managed from your phone, just set screen limits ahead of time and you'll avoid the shitshow of having to crowbar him off it.

He still won't be happy like, but managing expectations works wonders.

I don't have kids (thankfully) so likely talking bollocks, but if he's holding you against a wall threatening you with a knife and with all the other stuff, there may be more going on either mentally or in his life to cause him to act this way. Just a teen acting up being a little shit shouldn't cause them to threaten a parent with a knife.

https://www.nhs.uk/news/pregnancy-and-child/new-guidelines-on-child-antisocial-behaviour/

Lots of good advice above and one  to completely ignore.

Don't phone the police on him, don't attempt to press charges. Unless you're giving up.

More positively, try to plan the discipline so that it's relevant, immediate and finite. Same with rewards . And Don't let him "earn things back" or it loses any deterrent value. If there's going to be a "punishment " period then you have to see it through. That's why it can't be open ended. That'll create some boundaries and structure that he can understand.

And if you can, try to start each day as as clean slate. Won't be easy but I think this is particularly relevant with the shared arrangements. Give him a chance to be good and eventually you'll have a good day together then build on that.

And try to understand that his phone/online life might be far more important to him than anyone in older generations can understand. So you can't completely remove it, and may need to discipline with another tactic. But restrictions , outside of discipline, could be beneficial

n my opinion and experience, I think we (society) have created the perfect storm of creating highly dependent kids which is in direct conflict to the fact they are biologically wired to reject you. Dependent because we make it so hard for them to achieve independence; high rent/house prices, extended education, modern luxury and comfort (phones, etc.). There are massive conflicting demands on youngsters – see also social media. It’s a shit storm and you just have to ride it out.

Kids are even more dependent on their families in Asia where there is no social welfare net to fall back on. This kind of shit is very rare out there.

There is a certain type of kid that hasn't registered that in the real world, getting a knife out will get you shot in the face by coopers. Treatment invariably involves throwing as many shrinks at them as possible, where they get patted on the head and told that their coddled lives were actually really ****ed up and they don't change - then they end up in prisonor at best an EBD school  wondering what the **** happened.

Sorry, if someone pulls a knife on you - it's time to involve the police and the best psychologist that you can find.

Playstation (gaming), Screen time, Phone, Internet, Going to bed, turning up for meals, homework, getting up in the morning, going to school, household chores.

Take away the technology all the other issues have been there since teenagers were invented. But what exactly is the issue with his gaming and phone use ? Your wife says he self regulates so why not give that a try. At least you'll be on the same page.

same age as my son and he is a wee shit too.  Doesn't phone to let me know what he is doing, is constantly cheeky with smart arse replies.  Down side to your situation is the splt between homes.  If he does that with a knife again I would contact the police.  There is only so much you can do as a parent.

Balls, I was a **** as a teenager, pulling a knife out isn't normal teenage behaviour. No parent should be told they have to put up with that.

I think we (society) have created the perfect storm of creating highly dependent kids which is in direct conflict to the fact they are biologically wired to reject you. Dependent because we make it so hard for them to achieve independence; high rent/house prices, extended education, modern luxury and comfort (phones, etc.).

Agree. We need to go back to kids leaving home to do apprenticeships in their teens. (I'm serious.) I didn't realize kids were biologically wired to reject parents. If true, it makes sense and explains a lot.

Again, leaving home early is actually a very British thing, again - there are plenty of societies around the world where children are dependent for a long time but they have less issues with disobedience towards elders.

Social problems in the UK run much deeper than "it's because they stay at home longer".

It's partly to do with the fact that western nuclear families are actually more independent from the rest of the extended family. In Asia, you have grandparents, aunts, uncles and cousins around to tell you that you are a shithead and keep an eye on you.

Westerners in comparison to confucian societies have a culture of independence - it's all about me etc and that shows in the kids.

You have discovered the problem with authoritarianism.  But I think it's a bit late now.  You've set yourself up as an opponent, and he's taking you on.  Imagine if someone tried to stop you doing stuff you wanted for what appeared to be arbitrary reasons - you'd probably kick off too - I would.  Ok, you're the parent, and you think that makes him subordinate to you, but he doesn't see himself that way.

By the sound of it you've gone way way past the point of reason, but reason is the only thing that works sometimes.  He needs to be on your side, and you on his.  So you need to explain exactly why you want to limit his screen time or whatever else it is you want to do.  This is extremely difficult and requires infinite patience and persistence, but that is your job.

If he threatened you with a knife he clearly has no respect for you or your demands, which is what you need to rectify.  How do you earn respect with someone?  By doing stuff the other person considers to be good, fair and reasonable.

How do you earn respect with someone?  By doing stuff the other person considers to be good, fair and reasonable.

This is good advice, but for it to work it has to be a mutually agreed approach.

Our house can resemble that same battleground - over the same issues - so no, you are not a sh*t parent. Far from it.

My view - 'self regulation' means that my teens would be up half the night, missing out on social skills and human interaction, getting unhealthy and not fitting in with simple society expectations (like in our house we eat together around a table, with no screens at all).

'Self regulation' seems a different way of saying 'easy life' for the parents in many cases. Long term 'benefits' of 'self regulation' are not there unless you do actually have the intrinsic motivation to 'self regulate' - and my kids don't on a regular basis. I have to help them see that a balance in life is good - and that they need the motivation to see that and want that, or I won't get anywhere.

I find I am having to be good at finding the motivation to keep going, and balancing 'breaking' a relationship with the long term benefits of having healthier, happier and more socially rounded kids.

I am finding I have to say my piece and walk away - leave them to reflect and then ask about it later or wait for them to volunteer the reponse. I cannot push them into an immediate conformity as I may have done when they were younger.

Keep at it OP, keep that relationship but also keep balancing their 'need' with it.

If you find out how to do this at somepoint, let me know, I am nearly out of ideas...

Glad people have started picking up the fact he has threatened his own dad with a knife.  That has got to get alarm bells ringing in this current age where kids are taking knives to school not only for self defense but for threatening others.

If my own son did this he would be in cuffs before he could process the sirens ringing in his ears.  The fact he thinks its perfectly ok to pull a weapon on his dad is ****ed up and the fact so many of you are just glossing over it speaks volumes that its becoming far too normal.

At 13 he is still under your care and your ex, he needs to learn that he is still a child and there are rules to obey, <span style="font-size: 12.8px;">he needs to understand that actions have consequences, like with the knife above.  If he can pull one out on his dad, whats the chances he could pull one out on a random person?</span>

In regards to screen time and gaming, have you asked to join in?  I wouldn't take it away as that's just another reason in his head to take it out on you.

My parenting skills are only just beginning as my son is barely out of nappies so not encountered any of these issues yet

This is good advice, but for it to work it has to be a mutually agreed approach.

Exactly.  Respect is earned through dialogue and compromise, not fighting each other.

My kids are much younger, but we always talk about our feelings and emotions.  We've talked about how it feels when you're (psychologically) addicted to something, and how negative that can be.  We've talked about what we all do online and shared it, and talk about specifics of the positive and negative things that have happened and the impacts they've had.  I talk about my own cock-ups and life disasters and how they were caused which were (and are) frequently to do with too much screen time (hi!).  But there are other reasons why I'm online all the time.

Everything has a cause, and ultimately most of us want the same things.  We want to be stimulated and satisfied, we want to have fun.  Simply banning someone's main source of fun and satisfaction is always going to be tricky.

This week after another row he heads back to his mothers (I have a shared care arrangement with her pretty much 50/50 but it was through the courts and she didn’t like the outcome to the point of accusing me of assaulting her and sexually abusing my son and his sister which reopened the whole case and we went back to the start

You know what mate, with this in mind, I'd just let your ex get on with whatever wet "attuned" parenting style she wants and extricate yourself from the situation. You can be there to pick up the pieces when he's a young adult and teach him how to be a functioning male member of society.

She'll make that accusation again and potentially ruin your whole life.

Move on with your life, go travelling and/or find a new missus.

These online games should create "parent" characters in the game, which are basically invincible.

Then you can just logon and run around in the game telling him to get his tidy his room/do his homework and when he doesn't you can blow his head off with a Gauss Cannon or BFG 9000.

IANAP .- but. " He regulates his own screen time" = he is on his phone 18hrs a day , sexting, texting , whattsapping his little  gang of mates and the girls at school who he reckons he can get his end away with,

He is probably sleep deprivied when teens actually need  more sleep as they growth spurt ( apparently )

So if at yours  this life of  doing the square root of efff all at his mums is challenged at your house he will push back.His mum probably does everything and leaves him alone for a quiet life so he is probably out till 1030 -1100pm most nights 'studying' = down the park on his bike trying to get alcohol/ drugs, vandalising the kids play area , harrasing the dog walkers type of stuff.

I guess trying to take him out for a bike ride wont happen ? or a walk up a big fricken hill? Maybe canoeing if you have access to some moving water . Could be if you can repalce the PS3 with real life adrenaline via paintball ( shoot him in the face ) he might calm down abit, especially if he can play COD when you get home, after a maccy Ds

I am finding I have to say my piece and walk away – leave them to reflect and then ask about it later or wait for them to volunteer the reponse. I cannot push them into an immediate conformity as I may have done when they were younger.

I do this with my soon to be 10yo.  I encourage him to sit in his room for 9 minutes (his age in mins) and think about his actions, then to come and describe to me what he thinks he's done wrong.  He inevitably apologises and does just that.

Literally yesterday he threw a "nobody in this house lets me do what I want" tantrum and lost this weeks technology time (1hr a day, Thurs-Sun which includes Telly) as a result.  Cue an extension to the apology whereby I explained to him that apologising is good, but if he'd thought about his actions and not threw the tantrum beforehand he'd still have the Technology time available.  Its all an education.

I won't let him get bored though, I'll offer him the opportunity to do a jobs(s) for me or Mrs K to earn something back, e.g. Saturday morning TV but he won't get the iPad / 'puter time back.

If your ex is unable to do any actual parenting then you are only pissing against the wind. Any gain or progress you make will be wiped out instantly when he returns to her. Personally I'd take some time out and let them get on with it without you. Revisit the situation in 6 months time. When you reconnect set some basic rules, the minute he doesn't comply send him back to his mother and repeat. Appreciate you might not be able to do this due to legal arrangement, but maybe changing that agreement wouldn't be a bad thing in the long run.

+1

 this weeks technology time (1hr a day, Thurs-Sun which includes Telly)

Totally your call and I fully respect that. But how do people arive at what seems a totally arbitrary figure. How is 1 hour good 2 hours bad. And at what age do you start passing elements of control over to children and let them start making their own decisions about such things ?

My lad is 12, and not as bad as you describe has his moments. The last time we had an 'uprising' I found the silent treatment worked wonderfully. I even got an apology!

I run his football team too, you should try getting 15 of them to do what you want..............

Glad people have started picking up the fact he has threatened his own dad with a knife.

Need the OP to confirm or deny but the actual phrasing was (by my interpretation) a bit different. Sure, I'd rather confront an angry teenager who isn't holding a knife than one who is, particularly if anger can boil over but I *think* my response to the situation as I'm reading it would have been more along the 'stop being a dick, put that knife back in the drawer before you do something stupid' and then walked away to let it de-escalate.

Kids are notorious for seeing where the boundary is, and it might be my misinterpretation but holding a knife for shock value and genuinely threatening someone with it IN THIS CASE could be quite different.

The mere picking up of a knife during an argument is a threat, just because the kid didn't have the balls to stick it up to his throat and say "**** off old man or I'll cut ya" doesn't mean to say that it hadn't entered his head that what he was doing was intended to threaten.

 this weeks technology time (1hr a day, Thurs-Sun which includes Telly)

Thanks for this idea, will be use something similar when mine are older.

 But how do people arive at what seems a totally arbitrary figure. How is 1 hour good 2 hours bad.

Indeed.  We have technology times after school, but it's not rigid.  After all, things need to come to a conclusion - you wouldn't want someone to turn your film off 10 mins before the end would you?  If they've had a hard or busy day they get more, if it's a nice day and they need a run about they get less.

In most things we try to give them as much control as we can, but we just point out what time it is and what the rules are.  Then they decide if they want to stick to the rules or not - and we show how we feel when they don't.  Of course I know it's early days, but we are trying to do groundwork for the teenage years.  I've no idea how we'll get on, but last night they tidied their room on their own without being asked.  I think it helps that our own room is currently a shit heap, and they have a sense of pride in doing better than their parents.

But how do people arive at what seems a totally arbitrary figure.

If you don't impose an arbitrary figure then the lad will be up at 3am playing Minecraft and falling asleep in lessons.

And at what age do you start passing elements of control over to children and let them start making their own decisions about such things ?

Dunno but at 46 I can't be trusted to put my phone down and get on with something I ought to be doing. So I'm thinking a lot older than 13.

I can sympathise with the OP completely, I too have a 13 year old and they are a living hell. I was told when our youngest was born and we're dealing with the whole newborn nightmare that "teenagers are harder" and I scoffed as I was cleaning poo out of my daughter's hair that that simply wasn't possible, but I'm starting to think they're right.

The worst part is that my Wife and I don't agree, so his problems quickly create our problems.

In short, my Wife thinks I'm a reactionary, Ogre who hates him because he's just doing normal teen stuff.

Whereas I think he's a lazy, narcissistic and more than anything else a SPOILED brat, and we should be saying "Come on now Babe" to the 4 year old and shouting "stop doing that!" to the 13 year old and not the other way around.

He will routinely "I can't believe someone would say that to a CHILD!" if an adult ever say anything negative to him, or any other kid, because in 2018 it seems Children know best and we should only encourage them in whatever their under developed brain thinks they should do that very moment.

Chores? To given an example I've started to ask him to take his plate out after dinner and he goes full Ronnie Pickering. We argued the other day because, with a terrible cold an incredibly sore back I cooked his lunch for him and sat down again before the pain made me weep. "Dad, there's no forks!" in a tone you might use to a subordinate who's only, well-paid, job was to ensure there was always a clean, dry fork for you to use at any given moment, bit my tongue, "you'll have to wash one mate" and get the full Ronnie Pickering - "they're all the way at the bottom of the washing bowl - I'll use a spoon then!" I swore (naughty me) and stomped out to the kitchen, to find him throwing around the crockery with gay abandon to get to a fork "stop that" more Ronnie Pickering, so a grasped hold of his wrist - now I will concede that whilst the OP and his son about par, My Son and I are not, if he tried to push me against a wall I'm not sure I'd notice. I washed a fork for him and sent him on his way, as usual muttering words under his breath he won't say out loud.

A few hours later and I'm being laid into by my wife for threatening and / or assaulting him and no amount of calm, measured explanation of the true turn of events will persuade her that I'm not some kind of madman who attacks kids for asking, politely, where the forks are.

I am the pantomime villain at home, we agree, as a couple when the kids are in bed things like screen time limits, access limits, bedtimes, home times, how and when they'll do homework, chores (ha ha), but rather than hard and fast rules that someone could get used to and accept, they're completely fluid things to be constantly negotiated, the good news always coming from my Wife, but if she thinks it's a bad idea to allow him unlimited, unrestricted access to the internet all night , it's me that has to give the bad news.

They have little, whispered meetings about how they're going to tell me things, if at all, and how best to 'deal with Dad' so whatever credibility I had left at home is now completely eroded.

I'm particularly enjoying the build up to Christmas. A few months ago he came home very excited that "everyone" was going on a very expensive Welsh Language trip to Euro Disney, it was my responsibility as Head Finance Ogre to decide if we could afford it, or, to put it more accurately, HOW we were going to afford it, and more importantly how if the sacrifices we'd have to make down the road to pay for it, however mild seemed unpleasant it would be my fault. So, I did, under the firm condition that this very expensive trip that EVERYONE was going on (everyone in this case being 30 kids out of around 600) would be his Christmas Present "oh, but we can get him a few stocking fillers can't we?" of course we can, not even this Finance Ogre could leave the kid empty handed on Christmas Day. He's currently got ever so slightly more for Christmas than his not-going-to-Euro-Disney sister and my Wife is almost beside herself because I sold his old Bike that he's grown out of (used around 4/5 times in 2 years) and haven't replaced it immediately with a more expensive one that simply won't turn a wheel until conditions are warm, dry and sunny.

Since starting High School last Sept, which we hoped would help, but only made things worse, he was:

Been put in isolated for punching a boy who was giving him a hard time (I only add this for the sake of a list as I wasn't overly bothered).

Been given an ABSO by the local library, and visited at home by the Police to explain if he does it again, he'll have to visit the station for a word with the Chief Inspector.

Been banned from the local Youth Club.

Slashed the seats on our Dining Room chairs, because we dared to tell him off.

Started 3/4 very small fires at home. Because 'bored'

Invited several members of his class to our house after school whilst we were in work, even though he was expressly told not to. We don't know how many or how often this happened, but to give an example of how well known this was, I was working from home one day when 3 kids, who aren't mine, let themselves into my house without knocking and started up the stairs to his room, he wasn't even home.

He, along with some, if not all of his group of friends has identified as every point on the LBGTQXYZ% spectrum, which was a concern before we knew it wasn't an instant invitation for bullying these days, but fashionable thing to do, but him being him, this escalated to him DMing with Paedophiles. with his friends for fun, and wouldn't accept that this was in any way a dangerous thing to do.

I wanted, when he turned 13 to loosen the reigns slightly with the Web, I understand that kids these days are hugely more sexulized than we were, Hedge porn was hard to find and usually softcore, these days double fisting is always a few key strokes away and he's going to want to see porn, but he just can't be trusted not to take things to the extreme the moment he's given some freedom, he's just not mature enough to self-moderate at the moment.

So I've had his mobile for a month after the DM thing, I've built him a whole new iCloud profile, killed the old one, his PC is about as secure as you'd find in GCHQ, all his SM accounts are dead, and he can't open new ones. Which sounds terrible, but then I never thought I'd have to say "I need to do this because you were sexting with Paedophiles". He gets it back tonight, and I don't know if he knows he won't be able to access Insta, SnapChat etc, he knows he's not allowed on them, but whether he knows he CAN'T access them (which is quite different) I don't know - I expect to receive a million requests for apps he's not allowed daily, and my Wife negotiating on his behalf.

I am yet to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Next time he threatens you physically, punch him hard and square on the nose.

Couldn't physically do this, even if mine went psycho and threatened me.

 I’ve no idea how we’ll get on, but last night they tidied their room on their own without being asked.

My eldest is 26 and we have never achieved this. Give yourself and the Mrs a pat on the back MG you must be doing something right 👍

If you don’t impose an arbitrary figure then the lad will be up at 3am playing Minecraft and falling asleep in lessons.

The aim is for the kid to think 'shit, it's 12, I need to get to sleep'.  Of course younger kids will never do this, but at some point the aim is to bring an adult viewpoint into it.  A sense of responsibility.  I admit it's a pretty lofty goal but personal responsibility is always the first thing to try in everything, and we manage the consequences for failure.

Bloody hell P-Jay, I'd go out for milk and never come back.

P-Jay that sounds shit, and it sounds like you are fighting a lone battle.  It's hard to know what to say when both parents aren't agreeing.

Sounds to me like the top priority by far is to agree an approach with your Mrs.  Even if it means building an unassailable case with evidence and presenting it around things like paedo DMing.

Jesus ****ing christ P-Jay.

All the best yeah, maybe some of you ought to arrange a group ride to blow off steam together?

Sounds to me like the top priority by far is to agree an approach with your Mrs.  Even if it means building an unassailable case with evidence and presenting it around things like paedo DMing.

If she needs a typed up report, she needs her head examined herself. She would surely know about all of these individual events?

Pjay, not sure what to say other than that's a horrid situation. I hope you find a way through it.

P-Jay

Jesus f*cking christ.

You have more resolve than me. Surely, even with your own children then comes a point where enough is enough?

My mate is going through something very similar, not got any direct experience as I don't have kids but he vented last time we caught up.

He's said he's seeing very positive results from both taking up a new shared hobby which happens to be mountain biking. Gets them out of the battleground and onto neutral territory where they can be mates rather than just seeing each other as fighting partners. Think it's pretty important to both be starting from scratch to share it rather than something you're already good at.

The worst part is that my Wife and I don’t agree

IANAP, but I'd hazard this is the root of the problem.  The two of you need to present a united front, anything else is gravy.

If I were you, I'd have a talk to the missus at a time where neither of you are angry / emotional and try and establish some common ground.  Then stick to it.  If the kids know they can play one against the other, they will relentlessly (I know I did), and they've got you over a barrel.

My eldest is 26 and we have never achieved this. Give yourself and the Mrs a pat on the back MG you must be doing something right.

Me and my wife live in apartment inside what is essentially students halls for professionals. I have a mate here who is a competent programmer working for a good company, but he is 7 years younger than me.

Sometimes I really feel like I'm his dad or something, I'll go round and knock to see how he's doing and I end up telling him off because his place is a complete ****ing shithead. How does he expect to bring a woman back etc etc.

I took him out to the Alps this year mtbing, he slept through his alarm for 30 straight minutes with it going off constantly and I was continually schooling him on how to get organized for a ride.

He's a good lad though who can hold an interesting conversatioation, so I put up with it in the hope I can make him a bit more manly/decisive hahah.

Jesus **** christ P-Jay.

+100. Whatever rubbish life throws at me in the future I'll think of you and things will instantly seem better. Just hang in there, it's  got to get better, same for you OP.

Good grief PJ, I wish I could help with that.  Stop doing things for him will you please, don't give in.  And this...

the good news always coming from my Wife, but if she thinks it’s a bad idea to allow him unlimited, unrestricted access to the internet all night , it’s me that has to give the bad news.

You REALLY need to change that.  You both need to be on common ground, not good vs evil.  I'm sorry to comment on your circumstances but I'd suggest talking this through with your wife and coming to a mutual agreement regrading delivery.

But how do people arive at what seems a totally arbitrary figure. How is 1 hour good 2 hours bad.

It was arbitrary, based on the fact we feel that a 6yo and a 9yo staring at a screen continuously for more than an hour cannot be good for them - and their needs to be some kind of rule.  Of course there is flexibility e.g. a movie at the weekend, but this relates to when they want to sit on their iPads.   We like to encourage other activities - toys, reading, painting, drawing, playing, garden, sport.

The Mon-Weds no tech rule is there to enforce a pattern of homework & music practise after school on weekdays without the tech distraction.  On Thursdays and Friday we would allow the Tech Hour only if the homework & music practise is done first, although there is a no Tech after 7pm rule 7 days a week for pre- bedtime arrangements.

We don't allow internet capable tech upstairs in their rooms, with the exception of the Mac in my office within which each has an age related login and is only allowed to be used for School-set homework that requires a computer.

For us this pattern has been established from a young age, and of course I expect it to be "the norm" as they grow up.  No doubt the forthcoming teenage will apply a challenge to that!

Thanks for everyone expletive laden sympathy, I never thought my little rant and massive vent would produce such a response.

Even though this is anonymous I should say, my list was a concentrated list of his screw-ups over a difficult 2 year period. I should have added about the time he rode across town to help his Granddad who was having a row of TIAs post heart surgery, arranged to get him to A&E and stayed with him for hours, when things were very grim, until we could get there or the time he stayed with me in A&E when I had Pneumonia. They squabble over the TV a lot and argue, but he loves his little Sister totally. The last 2 years have been hard, we're not as close as we were and that really sucks, he used to be a mate of mine, now whilst I always love him, sometimes I don't like him. I think I'm hard working and always try to think of others, especially my family first, but he's so wrapped up in himself he doesn't seem to care how his actions effect the rest of us, but he's 13, I don't know of many selfless 13 year olds.

My Wife and I do disagree and occasionally argue over him, I think the fundamental problem is that despite a lifetime of being known as the calm guy who never loses his temper and raises his voice, I seem to be constantly on edge in regards to him and I do over react sometimes, I don't know if that was caused by my Wife always defending him, or vice versa. It does annoy me when whenever he screws up, she will immediately start mitigating, "oh he was caught in a bad crowd" which is rarely true.

I supposed I'm trying to say that, in a Social Media age, it's easy to think that everyone else's kids are these perfect little mini adults who are going to change the world for the better even more than they do now when they're grown up and how their parents thank the starts for every moment they're together, but I think most parents really don't like their teenagers from time to time.

It was arbitrary, based on the fact we feel that a 6yo and a 9yo staring at a screen continuously for more than an hour cannot be good for them – and their needs to be some kind of rule.  Of course there is flexibility e.g. a movie at the weekend, but this relates to when they want to sit on their iPads.   We like to encourage other activities – toys, reading, painting, drawing, playing, garden, sport.

The Mon-Weds no tech rule is there to enforce a pattern of homework & music practise after school on weekdays without the tech distraction.  On Thursdays and Friday we would allow the Tech Hour only if the homework & music practise is done first, although there is a no Tech after 7pm rule 7 days a week for pre- bedtime arrangements.

We don’t allow internet capable tech upstairs in their rooms, with the exception of the Mac in my office within which each has an age related login and is only allowed to be used for School-set homework that requires a computer.

For us this pattern has been established from a young age, and of course I expect it to be “the norm” as they grow up.  No doubt the forthcoming teenage will apply a challenge to that!

That's pretty much how we'll be going and we've long since accepted that the only way to make it happen without resentment is to enforce it from day one so they don't realize there's any other way.  I appreciate this is very easy now and is going to become very difficult in future.

Hey PJ, Its sounds as though your boy is a great little chap trying to grow amongst a midst of confusing messages and choices.

I know my situation is different, but one thing me and Mrs K have always done if troubling issues loom is to sit down together when they are not there / in bed and talk through how we'd both deal with it, before we have to.  We often start with differing opinions & answers about the issue, but do end up with an agreed plan.

I will say that when I was 12/13 I was a confused angry arsehole that drove my parents mad.  Although I believe some of their choices did not help my situation, today I try to look at my kids perspective using my experience.   All I've ever wanted was my own children that love their parents as I'm sure yours do, but I never did with mine.   I'm not perfect, I have lost it, raised my voice and demonstrated some of the personality traits my own parents did, but after I've calmed down I've cried (out of sight) about the way I've acted in front of them, then later sat down with them, said sorry and explained my actions as incorrect but why they materialised.

In short this is nearly always ends up as "Daddy got cross because... ...and I'm sorry I shouted" followed by "but you understand what you did wasn't right either..".   I don't know if this is right or wrong, but we always end up in a big hug, even if there is a punishment still to serve.   I once shared cleaning the bathroom with Jnr because we both agreed I was as wrong as he was after misunderstanding him, seemed only fair.

None of us are perfect, its a hard job and we all do our best in different ways.

Fascinating post P-Jay.  I went the entire spectrum from thinking you were the cause of all the issues, to thinking it was an impossible situation that nobody could deal with, with several points in between.  I’m sure the truth is somewhere in the middle.  Whatever, good luck!

Regarding screen time, it's important to recognise that there is screen time and screen time.  Playing mindless Toca games on a tablet is one thing, but then trying to build something and problem solve in Minecraft multiplayer with a sibling, that's quite different.  You can manage your kids' experience online when they are young.  Even older kids on multiplayer shooters can be encouraged to be constructive and get something out of it.  My wife is currently advising 6th formers about university applications.  When asked about hobbies some of them say 'nothing' and then they say they spend their time gaming online.  Well, turns out some of them run clans or whatever they are called these days and they take their gaming as seriously as anyone takes their football or hockey and apart from the physical aspect they acquire the same kinds of life skills and develop the same kinds of interpersonal relationships.

Our kids get kicked off electronics at 7pm, but then if we are watching telly we often let them watch too.  Because even if it's repeats of Castle, grown up shows are loaded with things to teach little kids about how the adult world works.  My 9yo will watch intently and ask stuff like 'so why did he kill her?' and we get to explain a bit about abusive relationships or something...!  Dr Who is also a good opportunity to learn - after the Rosa Parks episode we had a long chat about racism, civil rights and the characters in the show.  The kids, little as they are, love dipping a toe into the adult world and are fascinated.  See also Death in Paradise repeats on Netflix.

See also Death in Paradise repeats on Netflix.

I’m ringing childline

Only a matter of time before Molgrips is found murdered under mysterious circumstances and the cops are baffled.

Meanwhile, his kids are  enjoying unfettered Xbox access.

Our kids get kicked off electronics at 7pm,

they decide if they want to stick to the rules or not

Hmmm.

they decide if they want to stick to the rules or not

As far as I'm concerned, they came make there own rules up when they're over 18 and living somewhere other than our house...

...communicated in the nicest possible way.

Hmmm.

I think you need to read the next bit.

I think you need to read the next bit.

I did, it doesn't change or caveat the meaning of the first bit at all.

As far as I’m concerned, they came make there own rules up when they’re over 18 and living somewhere other than our house…

…communicated in the nicest possible way.

My concern is if we don't impose sensible and consistent rules they won't ever be in a position to afford their own house.

I did, it doesn’t change the meaning of the first bit at all or even caveat it.

It's the same thing - we make them stop, but not by ordering them to.  At least, not usually.  The aim is to make them understand what's reasonable behaviour, and to want them to be reasonable.

It works for now, who knows what'll happen in 5 years time of course.

The aim is to make them understand what’s reasonable behaviour, and to want them to be reasonable.

It works for now, who knows what’ll happen in 5 years time of course.\

This is essentially my approach hence the word "education" in my post.  I hope they learn why things are right and wrong and grow up to be able to make their own choices sensibly.

Our kids get kicked off electronics at 7pm,

we make them stop

they decide if they want to stick to the rules or not

Hmmmm.

You'll have to do more than hmm, do you have a contribution regarding parenting?

Sounds awful but his lack of respect for you likely comes from his mother.

The next time he starts up start recording it and if he threatens you again call the police and use the recording as evidence. The mother will side with him and say its your fault.

Personally I'd go for the "pull a knife on me and I'll beat the *&*& out of you" approach. But i appreciate the difficult situation you're in.

Pjay - teenagers are a raging pile of chemicals which would cause most adults to.become catatonic if they ever experienced it.  It's not you it's them.  They need structure and boundaries because they literally cannot do it for themselves.  Their brains just aren't there yet.  The regulatory systems of the brain ( the executive funcitons) are not developed.  That's what adults are there for.  Having said that, the extreme nature of his disregulation, particularly the slashing of chairs and fires is a very big red flag and needs sorting, possibly professionally. Your wife is being his friend leaving you to be the parent.  That's not fair on you or him.  See above re needing adults. You two need to sort that.AAbout the lunch thing - choices.  If there are no forks, you can eat with your fingers, a spoon, or wash a fork, your choice.  Give them control over the things that they are mature enough to deal with.

To the OP.  The similarity to pjay is apparent.  Your ex is allowing your son to run his own life, being his friend and not setting boundaries. You are doing the opposite, which he desperately needs but being a raging pile of chemicals he hates.

The knife thing?  That is a giant red flag and needs sorting, maybe professionally.  If not for your safety then for his.  He might lose control and do that to someone who doesn't have your restraint.

 Give them control over the things that they are mature enough to deal with.

This is what I've been trying to say.  People get upset when they feel they don't have control.