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...change his mind.
His main concerns are around shifts etc. and the impact on girlfriend time, mates time, etc.
I've told him that things will work out. I think that the fire service will be a good career for him, all advice appreciated. I should say that he is reasonably keen but not convinced.
I think I put a post up about my lads interest in the Fire Service some time ago?
He's now going for the Police instead!
I can't really remember what caused the change of career choice...
does he live within 5 mins of an on-call station by any chance? if so he could join up and see how he likes it. (could also be a useful stepping stone to getting into a full-time role if he does.)
Can't comment on Fire Service, though I used to want to do it, too.
I was also put off by jobs with irregular hours, but in the end it's just a different routing. I'd much rather have done an exciting/interesting job with weird hours (because there are plenty of folk in the same boat to go play with when free) than a dull 9-5.
Your mates will always be mates, but they can change their lives / routines to something that won't suit yours. Then where does it leave you? Not meant to be negative, it kind of happened to me - they got GFs / wives before I did so I was bored at work AND bored at weekends until I did something about it (changed my life a bit).
His main concerns are around shifts etc. and the impact on girlfriend time, mates time, etc.
Its not for him then, plenty of others wanting to do it and that none of that will bother them.
Over my 30yrs in service I missed many a Christmas meal, family birthday, nights out, bike rides etc as I was working but I really enjoyed the shifts being off when others were working.
My work pattern was 2 days 2 nights and 3 off (worked 8hrs off 1st day off) so never counted that as a day off. We always have the opportunity to swap shifts with others if you wanted a day/night off pay you had to pay them back so you could end up working 5-6 day/nights in a row.
Its not all about rescuing cats out of trees and chip pan fires its more preventative work now. Would I do it again Yes I would. Good opportunity's for career progression also good scope for being deadwood and do your bit and go home no more no less, just as many choose
I tried in the 90's but was one of 1500 applicants and never made it through the eyesight tests. It will undoubtedly be very heavily subscribed, it's a popular career.
His main concerns are around shifts etc. and the impact on girlfriend time, mates time, etc.
I remember thinking this when I was a youngster too, and turned down some good opportunities. Youth is wasted on the young etc.... I can't even remember the girlfriend I had at the time!
One fire service mate learnt the piano to an incredibly high standard, the other became a great cook.
Both were fit as **** and it seemed to be an effective way to grab women's attention. What can possibly go wrong??
He would/should have known about shifts before he expressed any interest.
You refer to '...shifts etc'; what does the etc cover?
Is someone trying to talk him out of it?
Its not all about rescuing cats out of trees and chip pan fires its more preventative work now. Would I do it again Yes I would. Good opportunity’s for career progression also good scope for being deadwood and do your bit and go no more no less, just as many choose
Thank you for this.
'there is more to life than nine to five'
What’s important to your son? Is it being in the fire service? Or girlfriends or friends? Also I would have thought being in hr fire service would definitely help his relationship with girlfriends? Not hinder them…
I would think that your son should be more than “reasonably keen”. Working shifts is not easy in any job, however, after 15 hour night shifts - some busy, some not it does take some time to relax afterwards. Cutting people out of cars on Christmas day, long days wet through in flooding, walking into situations where others are running in the opposite direction are not good for mental health. I did 32 years and it took another ten to wind down. Still not quite right though! I think through family experience the police service is even worse. If you’re a Mason then promotion in either job can be faster though!!
Its not all about rescuing cats out of trees
They use dingy's now to rescue cats 😉
I'd consider the shifts to be one of the more appealing aspects. That and the camaraderie. Things to put you off might be low pay, high risk of occupational injury and for a job with a higher chance of dying than most, isn't death in service only 2x salary? Suicide rates are also higher than average I believe.
If any of our residents firefighters know otherwise, I'd love to be put right on some of those negatives though.
Certainly near me, the firefighter and police shifts seem to be pretty much the same. With firefighters, there's more chance of getting some rest and when you do go out, there's a greater chance people will be pleased to see you.
I've been in 20 years now and I'm glad I joined after leaving the army but I recently had to do cpr on a young lad hit by a car in front of his parents for over 45 mins until the ambulance arrived they stood watching him mum dad and little sister and i knew i couldnt do anything to save him and its really made me wish I didn't join i felt so useless, ive dealt with lots of death and saved many lives as I work in a big city station but that job has made me question everything and still bothers me every day since, maybe its my age as I get older I don't know, ive only ever been affected by a job once before and that involved 3 dead kids, id say if I'm honest unless he's 100 percent committed to wanting to join then do something else as girls and mates are the least of your worries despite what people think of firefighters its not just snooker and days off
They use dingy’s now to rescue cats
They throw them at the cats 😳 we just squirted water at them, how things change
Things to put you off might be low pay, high risk of occupational injury and for a job with a higher chance of dying than most, isn’t death in service only 2x salary? Suicide rates are also higher than average I believe.
Starting pay £24k once qualified £32k https://www.fbu.org.uk/pay-rates/pay-settlement-2021
Most injuries I encountered at work happened outside of work, football biking etc
Given how risk adverse the FS was becoming to dealing with fires death in service is low compared to other sectors. Why send in FF's to save a building that will only be knocked down once the ruins are soaked enough.
Only knew of one person in our service who sadly took his own life, so guessing its no higher than anywhere else.
It did however seem to have its high than average share of k nob heads, downtime can bring out the worst in people sometimes .... also those who think they were there to sleep on a nightshift and moaned when they were turfed out of bed at 3am 🙂
I’d consider the shifts to be one of the more appealing aspects.
depends on which county. many now are moving away from 2/2/4 and covering whole periods for an extra percentage. ours for instance is 4 days and nights at a time (sometimes 5), so we go out to every shout within a 96 hr period (or 120 hr). obviously you get rest periods where you sleep (hoping for a quiet night) but you have to be within 5 mins of the station, so if you live away youre away for 4 or 5 days at a time (so back home for 3 or 4, but often youre that knackered you need a day or so to recuperate). a cheap win for the fire service, effectively binning two watches and only paying the remaining firefighters a small percentage. and yes, the union did sign it off.
so.... do your homework on what shifts that particular brigade work.
its a rewarding job but not for everyone. obviously some grim sights every now and then but by and large its excellent camaraderie and teamwork.
as bruneep says ^^^ theres a lot of preventative work now, trying to be proactive rather than reactive, the aim being to stop the incidents happening in the first place.
@firestarter one situation went bad, remember every other one that didn't go wrong and you did what you wanted to achieve.
You're a star mate. If you weren't there in every event you attended what would be the score be?
Look at every day you've got the result you wanted and think of the people's live you have dome so much to enhance .
What’s important to your son? Is it being in the fire service? Or girlfriends or friends
Surely being firefighter mitigates any concern about girlfriends?
Surely being firefighter mitigates any concern about girlfriends?
trust me they don't look nothing like the calendar firefighters, think more overweight balding men, some women can look that way too
@firestarter if you didn’t feel or stop feeling then that would be a worry. I can still remember the deaths on the roads, the houses and other places I’ve witnessed. I can also remember people I’ve helped but unfortunately that doesn’t cancel out the former. Direct message me if you want a chat.
@franksinatra unfortunately the Firefighter as a sex symbol stereotype does attract some of the wrong people for the job.. Also there are lots of female Firefighters, and have been for over 80 years. People who rely on the image of a particular job for their identity are usually not the most reliable? Why did our Prime Minister suddenly pop up in my mind ??
His main concerns are around shifts etc. and the impact on girlfriend time, mates time, etc.
Well that's what happens when you start the second job for when you aren't on shift.........
If he isn't mature enough to realise the opportunity a career in the service he will soon after he starts the dull job with an on-call requirement
@big_n_daft What were you intending to say there? It isn’t quite clear enough for me, I’m medium and very daft!
I’d consider the shifts to be one of the more appealing aspects
So would I. Did shift work for almost 20 years and although was getting the better of me towards the end with recovery times coming off nightshifts I preferred it to 9-5.
09:01 in the morning and you just made it incredibly dusty in here!
What a beautiful thing to say!
Chapeau sir, Chapeau!!!
I'd always prefer an active job to a desk job. However, it seems most active jobs come with alternative working hours.
Current job is regular hours but with standby. So, I work a normal day, then sleep with one eye open, not knowing if I'm going to get disturbed or not. Then, if I don't get called out over a certain amount, I then have to work a normal day the day after.
Knowing when you're working and when you're not makes a lot better sense to me.
Our local FRS do 2x13 hours days, 2x11 hours nights, 4 days off. Sounds much better.
high risk of occupational injury
My dad did 30 years, family has well over 100 years of service in the fire brigade and the only injury I can recall was my dad bashing his head on a lintel in the rubble of the Grand Hotel. My dad was county fire officer when he retired and at that time they lost more hours of work from volleyball injuries than any other singe cause.
I know the pension has changed but he retired when he was 54 and given it's final salary and he's still drawing a it 31 years later he's earnt far more from being retired than he did in the 3o years he was in!
And you might want to have a word with your son, you may be able to choose to join the police but the fire brigade choose to give you a job. If he thinks he's just going to walk in he's in for a nasty surprise. Often plenty of opportunities for retained service but full time is generally very oversubscribed.
I have experience from 2 sides of the fire service, i'm whole (full) time in London fire brigade, 21 years now, and on my days off i do retained cover for the much smaller county brigade where i live, 3 years so far, and i see a remarkable difference in the two. Both have their positives and negatives, and that said i don't think i could really recommend a career in the London fire brigade to anyone that i cared about. The job itself is still very worthwhile and for the most part enjoyable, the management though is awful, very political and they seem to just use the workforce to further their own personal ambitions.
The county brigade on the other hand, being smaller, is more intimate, senior managers know a lot of the workforce by name and the whole set up is just friendlier and there is a lot less pressure on meeting targets for the sake of meeting targets.
So my advice to the OP's son would be to definitely go for it, it is a great job with many upsides, do look into the shifts though, some counties have very abnormal, almost random shifts, others still running the traditional 4 on, 4 off. Given my time again i would certainly do it again, but i'd choose a county brigade over a large metropolitan one.
Another thing to consider, and a potential can of worms to open, is if he does join to think very carefully about joining the pension scheme. It is still better than many private schemes by a large margin, IF you do the full term, and 40 years is a huge term. Employer contributions are very generous, but if you leave before the full term then the scheme is non-transferable and locked until you reach state pension age. something to consider.
23 years and counting in NYFRS here.
I personally like the shift system, gives you plenty of time off during the day to do what you want. I have just gone back to 2/2/3 having done a few years doing days only and am enjoying being back in the thick of it, although the fatal house fire on my first night shift was a bit of a shock!
We work 2x 8am/6pm followed by 2x 6pm/8am on a rolling 8 day cycle. North Yorks also has Day Crewed which is 4 days 8am/6pm at the station followed by being on call during the night, then 4 off, and Self Rostered which is like Day Crewed but you/they have some flexibility on the days worked. Things are changing up and down the country though and the better systems being replaced with work patterns that suit management rather than the employee.
As has been said, the job is changing and whether that's good or bad will depend on the individual. When I joined the old lads said the job wasn't as good as it used to be, just as we now tell the new recruits! There are still plenty of positives though and I still enjoy going to work. As long as you end up at a good station with decent moral it's a career worth doing and I certainly can't imagine having to do mon/fri, 9/5. That would be hideous, when could I ride my bike?
Also agree with those questioning him needing to be convinced. Plenty of others don't need to be so already have a head start on your lad. It's still the case that there are hundreds, if not thousands of applicants for each position so if he's not that bothered there's a decent chance he'll get no where near interview, let alone a job.
If he's anywhere near Harrogate he's welcome to come for a chat with my watch.
If he's looking at Retained/On-Call that's a different story though as there's a huge shortage of them. This is due to the amount of time they are expected to be on call and the peanuts they are paid for doing so. It's a huge commitment and certainly not worth bothering with if he has any doubts at all because he won't last.
Another thing to consider, and a potential can of worms to open, is if he does join to think very carefully about joining the pension scheme. It is still better than many private schemes by a large margin, IF you do the full term, and 40 years is a huge term. Employer contributions are very generous, but if you leave before the full term then the scheme is non-transferable and locked until you reach state pension age. something to consider.
No early access from 50/55 (with reduced pension)?
As mentioned he’s going to want to do it. Shift work is a pain but comes with big advantages, more time off, places are quieter during the week and have midweek offers on.
@firestarter sorry to hear that it can be hard. It’s never one job its an accumulation, that one job that just puts over the edge. Make sure your work is aware, ask for counselling and talk about it.
No early access from 50/55 (with reduced pension)?
Nope that's gone, with the new and "improved" pension.
My brother joined the fire service in his mid 20s. A few grumbles about management and getting time off etc, but he loves it. There is plenty of upskilling opportunities and career progression is encouraged.
As mentioned above, being on call means you're not always completely off when you're off, so it takes a bit of effort to keep partners happy (hoping you can get someone to cover if you're out for dinner etc). There is also undoubtedly FOMO when he's working all weekend and missing social events, but colleagues will be likeminded people so he'll make new friends. I definitely have more in common with my brother's colleagues than my own!
Despite the moaning, none of them ever want to come off shifts when there's a promotion to a Monday-Friday role offered.