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Was this the driver OP?
It sounds like what you did might have been kind of annoying for the guy behind, but there's f all point in flashing someone to pull over when they're halfway past an hgv.
And it always amuses me the folk that are in so much of a hurry they stop for a fight.
Braking hard enough to engage your abs in that situation is just daft.
Oh and TJ, people won't get the message. It might be tempting but it just slows people down/winds them up. By all means do it to leave more of a gap in front for safety, but they'll never notice what they're doing/what you're doing/react well to it.
Phil - it does also make it easier for them to pass.
Got it on the laptop and I'm gutted to say the reg is unreadable due to my headlights reflecting badly on it.
Pictures above show how close he/she was.
Jeebus! That is close! No joy on the number plate as it gets a bit further away? I have to say though, the pictures don't look terribly high quality. Is it a particularly cheap one? Mine gets this standard, number is plenty legible, you can even make out that the driver is one handed with his mobile pressed to the side of his face through 2 lots of windscreen reflection with a bit of zooming in/croppage.
It's a 1080p amazon special. Picture quality is decent enough, I've watched other vids and can see the plates, it hasn't come across very well taking the pics from the laptop screen. The reflection is the same on his plate through the whole vid, could it be one of those illegal jobbies to avoid speed cams, or is that urban mythery?
Aye that’s really close. What an absolute dick head. Shame about the plates
So people won't exceed a completely arbitrary speed limit, the lack of adherence to which for a short time will not demonstrably reduce their or anyone elses safety, but they will "hold up" some nutter and hence get road raged by said nutter, possibly resulting in a collision and their death or the death of someone completely un-involved?
Hint, if you're on a 60 or 70 mph speed limit road, then doing 75, or 80, or heaven forbid, even 100 for a couple of hundred yards in a modern car, and where you were previously happy to do say 70 in NOT IN ANY WAY A SIGNIFICANT RISK compared to the risks of having someone tailgate you at "just" 60 mph....
In summary: there are enough d*cks on the road as it is, do everything you can to not increase that number!
On watching it back ive realised we were luckier than I first thought. If hed have clipped me I reckon the artic behing would have gathered us all.
Hint, if you’re on a 60 or 70 mph speed limit road, then doing 75, or 80, or heaven forbid, even 100 for a couple of hundred yards in a modern car, and where you were previously happy to do say 70 in NOT IN ANY WAY A SIGNIFICANT RISK compared to the risks of having someone tailgate you at “just” 60 mph….
Ah ha - the problem is people obeying speed limits, right? Top class victim blaming - the selfish slow-driving ****ers, shoot 'em all....
Blimey, what a tosser
maxtorque
Subscriber
So people won’t exceed a completely arbitrary speed limit
So I had my recently passed driving test daughter in the back, I'm under hers and the black boxes scrutiny. I pulled out for the lorry who had entered lane one and the mini was obviously already tramming on, that was my first mistake, second was giving him the finger. What followed was ****ing nuts and I genuinely don't think they had an idea or the skill to have determined how close they really were.
Report with footage anyway. Presumably all the police movies suggest they will be able to sharpen everything and get his face reflected in his door mirror and identify him from dental records.
That or look for anpr from the local road cams if they deem it bad enough?
Deffo still report, and see if you can track down the haulier.
Mrsws relative is an inspector in the police, I'm going to drop him a message to see if he thinks there is anything that can be sharpened.
Just looked on derbyshire police website, no way of enhancing footage apparently.
They might be able to pick up the numberplate from an alternative source. Motorway camera or ANPR? IF they have a time and description of the vehicle.
Have you been through it frame by frame? I had a clip where reg was unreadable due to headlights. Scanning through it frame by frame and I found an image which let me make out the reg.
Ps. That’s shockingly close!!
Have you been through it frame by frame? I had a clip where reg was unreadable due to headlights. Scanning through it frame by frame and I found an image which let me make out the reg.
...and this, kiddies, is why Uncle Perchy always recommends getting a dash cam which records at as high a frame rate as possible.
Should have listened to uncle perch, this one is only 30fps which I thought would do, still cant understand the massive reflection off his plate though.
So people won’t exceed a completely arbitrary speed limit
Speed limits are not arbitrary.
Hint, if you’re on a 60 or 70 mph speed limit road, then doing 75, or 80, or heaven forbid, even 100 for a couple of hundred yards in a modern car, and where you were previously happy to do say 70 in NOT IN ANY WAY A SIGNIFICANT RISK compared to the risks of having someone tailgate you at “just” 60 mph….
Wow.
They might be able to pick up the numberplate from an alternative source.
Was my thought. Get it in to the coppers.
This is why you have to get your own retribution at the time, see.
.
.
.
(not, srsly 😀 )
Enhance 34 to 46. Pull back. Wait a minute. Go right.
That should focus the number plate. It is November 2019 after all.
Enhance 34 to 46. Pull back. Wait a minute. Go right.
That should focus the number plate. It is November 2019 after all.
Apparently a feature of the next forum upgrade.
Plenty of cars round my way have a reflective tint applied to the number plates, presumably for exactly this reason.
Hint, if you’re on a 60 or 70 mph speed limit road, then doing 75, or 80, or heaven forbid, even 100 for a couple of hundred yards in a modern car, and where you were previously happy to do say 70 in NOT IN ANY WAY A SIGNIFICANT RISK compared to the risks of having someone tailgate you at “just” 60 mph….
Thanks for the advice, but I'll pass on that....
Jeebus! That is close!
I've got to ask, how did you get away with that when you say (paraphrasing) that they then dropped anchor and you let off a bit?
Speed limits are not arbitrary.
They often are though not always, but,
Hint, if you’re on a 60 or 70 mph speed limit road, then doing 75, or 80, or heaven forbid, even 100 for a couple of hundred yards in a modern car, and where you were previously happy to do say 70 in NOT IN ANY WAY A SIGNIFICANT RISK compared to the risks of having someone tailgate you at “just” 60 mph….
Whilst I have a heavy right foot and agree that momentarily breaking the speed limit to get away from a loony is sometimes the lesser of two risk threats, I'm not sure as I'd be advocating doing 100 in a 60 limit.
And at best, it's a last resort. If I encounter a nutter on the road I want them either a long way ahead of me or a long way behind me. I don't really care which, but if they're intent on doing either 90 or 60 on a motorway then that rather makes up my mind for me.
no way of enhancing footage
As others have alluded, this isn't Blade Runner. You can't magically add data that isn't there in the first place.
Again the haulier will have possible 4 or 5 cameras on the go.
You got the trucks reg
I’ve got to ask, how did you get away with that when you say (paraphrasing) that they then dropped anchor and you let off a bit?
As he cut in I went slightly for a dab on the brakes just through sheer instinct (probably) as he was that close, he'd accelerated massively to get by and I presume to show his skillz, due to his increased speed he's now probably 10/15m in front of us, that's when he went for the big slam on the brakes flashy light job, that's when I hit the stop pedal big time.
I don't reckon at any point that I deviated from the 70mph speed, so when initially pulling out or going by the lorry,
I've got to be really honest in the fact that the manner of my driving was all down to the black box.
In fact I know we didn't speed as we got a 100 percent score for speed that day, however the braking and accelerating was down at 26 percent 😳
Speed limits are not arbitrary.
Their definition is. 44.7 m/s doesn't quite have the round number-ness that 100mph has. Yet some people equate it with certain death.
Hint, if you’re on a 60 or 70 mph speed limit road, then doing 75, or 80,
or heaven forbid, even 100for a couple of hundred yards in a modern car, and where you were previously happy to do say 70 in NOT IN ANY WAY A SIGNIFICANT RISK compared to the risks of having someone tailgate you at “just” 60 mph….
That said, in the situation described, i would not be comfortable with 100, due to the 40mph differential with the lorry.
Agreed in principle though, steadfastly enforcing the law at exactly 70 is more dangerous in the described situation.
I wonder what the black box score would have been for a few seconds at 80mph, but without the emergency stop?
@wrightyson, you said upthread that the video makes it look less frightening in real life - those still shots look bloody terrifying to me!
Get onto the Royal mail truck (assume you've got their plate, and the exact time) - they'll be a point where you've pulled in in front of them and the mini comes past on the right, their plate should be in shot then. If their cams are high up on the dash it should give a better view of the whole thing too.
Worst thing about this whole scenario - the van up ahead in the right lane looks like its got reflective chevrons on the back doors - highways, water company etc. they almost always have limiters. Makes the whole exercise rather pointless from the mini's point of view.
If the speed limits aren't arbitrary, please explain the why they are set at the levels they are set?
ie how come they are set at 30, 40 , 50, 60 and 70 mph?
There was no science behind the values chosen, they just took what felt, at the time (1963, when cars barely could do 80) to be reasonable values to apply for any given GENERAL situation. And that is the point, the speed limit is an arbitrary value applied to a reasonably limit speed for any given situation. As a result, there is no direct link between an individual, specific level of risk and the limit. In GENERAL, the faster you go, the more likely you are to be unable to stop or avoid something, and in GENERAL the faster you go the more serious any impact will be, but those rules are completely useless and have no relevance in specific circumstances.
A modern car is capable of well over 100 mph, with a level of passive and active safety far, far, far beyond that of the vehicles on our roads when those (arbitrary) limits were set all that time ago. Deliberately exceeding the limit, in order to avoid coming into conflict with another driver, when done in a suitable controlled fashion is overall a safer approach, because by removing the un-predictable conflict, you remove the vast majority of the risk.
The OP is the case in point. Thanks to a dumb black box that only links speed to "danger" he got himself into a situation that could have lead to the deaths of those involved and completely innocent people around him. Now it wasn't of his making, but i'd far rather stand up in court, and explain to the judge that i actively broke the speed limit for a short time, under controlled conditions, in order to avoid a very risky and unpredictable situation, than stand in front of the coroner and explain how i was hit by a "crazy" driver that lead to the deaths of members of my family.....
Don't get me wrong, you shouldn't use this as an excuse to speed willy-nilly, you shouldn't use this as an excuse to speed when the risks are high (like doing 70 in a 30 zone with parked cars on each side and blind spots galore) and if you can, it's FAR better to avoid the entire situation in the first place by driving defensively using a suitable "system" of driving to achieve that, because in that way you are not going to be put in the situation of having to chose in the first place.
But, situations do develop that are pragmatically "un-avoidable", and when they do, the best thing is to appraise each situation with a valid assessment of the real, at-that-moment risks, rather than refer to an arbitrary law, written 60 years ago, and one that has no direct bearing on your safety at that moment.
"As others have alluded, this isn’t Blade Runner. You can’t magically add data that isn’t there in the first place."
er, you actually can in this case!
Because you have video, and video is made up of multiple frames taken in a time series, and because you know the registration hasn't changed between the frames, you CAN use that pixel history to build up a "probability" pattern, and hence enhance the number plates text!
ie, in each frame, each individual pixel over the area of the plate will have a brightness value that depends on the relative reflectivity of the plates letters. Black letter areas will, on average, be darker than the yellow background areas. I bet if you took all the frames, cropped to the plate, corrected for skew, you could add all the pixel brightnesses together, and be able to read the letters!
If you fancy trying it, something like Python is your friend!
You need to download the CSI Enhance plugin, you’ll be able to see what’s in the guys ashtray!?
"Just tootling up the A38 to birmingham on the inside lane, lorry pulls on so I check, indicate, then move out, Mr mini in the outside lane was no where near or moving quickly at this point but is now on full beam, flash flash flash and right up my arse! "
It's an interesting social experiment to look at this ^^
You suggest that your move in no way caused the other driver inconvenience or brought you into conflict with them.
And yet, it was enough to trigger him to flash his lights, tailgate you, and then nearly ram you off the road.
This leaves us with three option:
1) They are a complete nutter
2) You are a complete nutter
3) a bit of both.
When we drive our cars, we unconsciously apply our own "norms" and "rules". For example, i've driven cars across the globe from death valley to 100 miles inside the arctic circle. I've rallied, raced and hold advanced driving qualifications, motorsport licenses, and been lucky enough to have been trained by top level coaches for all kinds of driving.
My sister, has none of those things. She passed her test at 18, and well, that's that.
As a result, our skill set is different, our attitude and ability to determine risk are also very different. She craps herself if the ABS so much as clicks once, or the DSC light blinks, i'll happily hang the arse out at 100 mph on the lock stops. (<< this is an exaggeration before you get all daily mail on me. I'd probably onyl do that at 97 mph..... 😉
I am not a better driver, but i am a very different driver to her. My "safe" zone around my car vs the speed i am travelling at is very different to hers. I'm happy to threshold left foot brake to scrub of lots of speed if necessary, she struggles to even stop smoothly from 25 mph. If you pull out in front of me, i won't flash you, i'll just avoid you, then rebuild my safe zone as necessary. She will beep and flash anyone who means she has to lift the accelerator.
When we are in our cars, we, mostly unconsciously, act very differently to how we would when we are not in them. If you are walking along the pavement, and a jogger runs up behind you, you'd (i hope) try your best to make way for them, you might even stop walking completely, move to the side, and let them past, possibly with a cheery "morning". .And yet, when you'e in your car, you feel safe, so in command, you're clearly a better driver, the speed you are driving at is clearly perfect, so anyone not going your speed MUST be a nutter! And that's when the problems start.
Car A sees car B as a "speeding lunatic"
Car B sees car A as "dawdling muppet"
and things spiral downwards from there. First the flash of full beams, met by a finger, response is tailgating, response is deliberately going even more slowly in front, followed by check braking, wild swerving, and unfortunately, in some cases, a crash, loss of control.
This is why avoiding conflict is so important on our crowded roads. Yes, "they" might be in the wrong. "they" might be doing 100 when you'd only doing 70 (because it's the limit isn't it) but the details don't actually matter.
In the first place, get some advanced driver training, even if it's a one morning course, covering the basic of observation and road positing. Use that skill to identify conflict situations, like people pulling out when approaching a slip road, or like people rapidly catching you up when you pull out to let a truck join......
Every story has two sides. The other driver is (probably) human, just like you. You don't know why they are driving like they are. They might be later for a meetings, they might simply not be paying attention (most likely) or they might actually BE a speeding lunatic. But put you pride aside, and AVOID the situation before it occurs!
And if you can't, try to defuse the situation as much as you can, a wave of "sorry" rather than the finger (even if it wan't your fault) goes long way, but please, please, don't escalate it by making yourself into another muppet!
BTW, i really recommend the following books (and not just because i consulted on some of the content 😉 )
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Drive safe people!
i’d far rather stand up in court, and explain to the judge that i actively broke the speed limit for a short time, under controlled conditions,
Whilst I broadly agree with you, again, those are very very far from controlled conditions or your wouldn't have to do it in the first place.
Thanks to a dumb black box
Or a momentary lapse in observation. "I check, indicate, then move out" should read "I check, indicate, check again and then move out," a flashy orange light doesn't automatically mean it's safe to hurl yourself into traffic.
If you pull out in front of someone doing Mach 1 then yes, a black box might well lessen the options you have available to mitigate the risk (see also, unmanned speed cameras). Standing on the loud pedal for a few seconds can sometimes be the best course of action. But the root problem isn't really the black box, the problem is a) someone doing Mach 1 and b) pulling out in front of them.
Not that I'm having a dig at the OP here. It happens, we all make mistakes and at motorway speeds situations change rapidly and it can all go wrong in the blink of an eye.
I'm trying to think of a single situation i've been in where "It's all gone wrong in the blink of an eye"
IME, pretty much everything that happens on the road is in fact, generally extremely obviously about to happen when you look properly!
70mph is 30 meters per second. Given as little as 100m of visibility,. thats 3.3 seconds, and under more typical conditions, you can easily see 500m, and perhaps 1km, and of course, what really matter is differential speeds which are a lot lower and so which mean even more time to observe and plan those "what ifs" If you are alert, and use a system of observation, nothing should be a "surprise" on any road, especially not on a wide open motorway!
By "controlled conditions" i mean that if you pro-actively accelerate, then it is you who are in control of the situation and not someone else, and even more importantly, not someone else who is possibly pissed off, angry and likely to make very poor decisions.
If you're doing say 70, and a truck comes down the slip road to join the road ahead of you, you know it's a truck, it's most likely not doing 70, and if you have been paying attention, you already know what the road looks like in front of you BEFORE the truck joins, therefore you can make a reasoned decision on how to avoid conflict. You could accelerate, and pass the truck BEFORE it even joins the road, so it joins behind you, which is by far the lowest risk under most normal conditions.
If the truck has already joined when you catch it up, then Yes, the faster you overtake, the worse any collision will be, but by the same token, the less time you spent next to it (and i see people sitting next to massive trucks all the time without passing them (don't to this, the truck always wins....)) then the lower the probability of any collision. BTW, even without indicators it actually often quite easy to tell if drivers are about to pull out into your lane, as they tend to give little indications, like the start of the maneuver, then a check, and then the full pull out (this is because most drivers can't actually steer properly, and the initial jerk as they start to change lane is usually excessive, so they then jerk back the other way a bit before actually moving)or by a change in speed (most drivers can't drive at a constant speed whilst they do something like steer... yes, really!) And of course, mostly, drivers don't actually change lane for no reason (hence the middle lane hoggers of this world....)
So whilst it's better, from a legal perspective to spot the truck about to join slowly in front of you, to spot the car coming up fast behind you and to slow down so you don't have to move into the other cars path and cause them to have to change their speed or path, using the performance of your car, for a short period of time, to pro-actively defuse a situation in a safe manner is not something that should be ignored if we are just talking about driving in the overall safest way.
Bloody hell, this got really boring in the last couple of hours. 🥱
Maxtorque, I'd rather stab my eyeballs out with a breadknife than read any more of your BS. Which would also preclude me from driving anywhere near you, so win-win I reckon.
Why are you so concerned about not pissing off speeders?
Because maxtorque was driving the mini , its not even funny.
Driving gods are the awesomest.
Hint, if you’re on a 60 or 70 mph speed limit road, then doing 75, or 80, or heaven forbid, even 100 for a couple of hundred yards in a modern car, and where you were previously happy to do say 70 in NOT IN ANY WAY A SIGNIFICANT RISK compared to the risks of having someone tailgate you at “just” 60 mph….
Well to quote a chum who was Road Traffic police for a long long time
‘Never seen any accident on the road where going faster would have made things better’
I’m trying to think of a single situation i’ve been in where “It’s all gone wrong in the blink of an eye”
IME, pretty much everything that happens on the road is in fact, generally extremely obviously about to happen when you look properly!
Whilst I agree with most of what you say - driving is all about observation and forward planning, and most shitty excuses for accidents like "he came out of nowhere" hold no water - the point I was making is that people are fallible. Professional drivers crash and sometimes die.
I don't doubt that you're a skilled driver. I'd like to think that I am too, though I don't have any books to name-drop. But if you're going to claim to be 100% perfect and that you never ever make mistakes then you're either bulshitting or deluded because no-one on the planet can make that boast about driving or any other discipline for that matter.
That's the 'blink of an eye' I was meaning. You can be god's gift to wheels 99.999% of the time, until you sneeze.
‘Never seen any accident on the road where going faster would have made things better’
... where your baseline is "there's already been an accident," sure. In the event of a collision, the higher the relative speed then of course the more severe the outcome. But how many incidents didn't happen because someone booted it to get out of the way of a nobber? It's hard to collate statistics on things that don't happen.
Speed absolutely has an impact on severity, and greatly so. I'm less convinced that it has a direct impact on causation, that's way more situational.
‘Never seen any accident on the road where going faster would have made things better’
Word.
This bullshit about appropriate speeds etc is just made up crap to justify Adrenalin junkies. If you slow down and pull over, the arsehole behind flashing will just go ahead of you and get out of your way. The reality is that you feel like your manhood has been undermined if you do that because he has "told you what to do". It is a bit like walking away from a fight and being called chicken. It is the adult sensible thing to do, but most blokes can't handle it and square up thinking they have to show they are a man. Be a man, slow down.
When we are in our cars, we, mostly unconsciously, act very differently to how we would when we are not in them. If you are walking along the pavement, and a jogger runs up behind you, you’d (i hope) try your best to make way for them, you might even stop walking completely, move to the side, and let them past, possibly with a cheery “morning”.
I kind of get this, but also;
- imagine now you're in a queue of people, all going the same way, maybe making your way out of the cinema or theatre at the end of a performance. Do you all just accept that's the speed you're moving at and the time it's going to take to get out of the exit, or because someone is fitter / more aggressive / a good runner are they allowed to run through the middle and folk step aside for them with a cheery wave and a smile.
They'd be told it's not the place and stop being a ****t.
Any news from the rozzers OP?
If you haven't contacted them, you should - and show that still / clip.
Hope it's not too late for them to get footage from the lorry.
just get out of the way in the most sensible way. Yes they other driver might be “mad” or “be a lunatic” yes, they might be breaking the speed limit, yes they might be “Pushing in” but in all those cases, take the moral high ground and let them get on with what they are doing, well away from you!
This says it all for me. Just calmly and safely get out of the way and hope they aren’t on the same route as you for too long. This is what I try and do. I occasionally fail because I’m a grumpy bastard and can be prone to giving rude hand gestures. Not proud of it and it’s rare nowadays.
I occasionally fail because I’m a grumpy bastard and can be prone to giving rude hand gestures. Not proud of it and it’s rare nowadays.
This is why I am in the same camp as you, having lost my rag and been a bit of an massive immature **** in the past, I realise how lucky I am that some of my responses to challenges on my manhood (that were a)bloody dangerous, b) rather pathetic), did not lead to horrific consequences.
Slow down peeps. If you have ever seen someone die or badly injured in and RTA you would lift your foot and think about your kids at home waiting for you.
But how many incidents didn’t happen because someone booted it to get out of the way of a nobber?
Hmm - I can think of occasions where I've avoided a collision through braking or turning, I can think of a few where I've had to pull away from a junction sharply, but I don't think I've ever had to speed up to avoid a collision on a motorway/dual carriageway/A road, if I was previously travelling at something close to the speed of the average traffic around me.
"Why are you so concerned about not pissing off speeders?"
er, go back to the original post in the this thread, which is the one where there was nearly a serious collision because some one "got in the way"
When you "get in the way" for what ever reason (poor observation, being a unoffical TrafPol, or just because you're also a muppet) of another motorist, your chances of having a serious accident go through the roof. Yes, the "speeder" was wrong, yes they are probably a *, but why you'd want to become a * yourself, and possibly kill yourself or someone else just to prove they are "wrong" escapes me.....
Enjoying the moral high ground is a lot harder from a hospital bed, and really completely impossible from the morgue........
"I kind of get this, but also;
– imagine now you’re in a queue of people, all going the same way, maybe making your way out of the cinema or theatre at the end of a performance. Do you all just accept that’s the speed you’re moving at and the time it’s going to take to get out of the exit, or because someone is fitter / more aggressive / a good runner are they allowed to run through the middle and folk step aside for them with a cheery wave and a smile."
ime, that doesn't happen. When someone rudely pushes past, you might get the odd mutter, but very very few people will actively try to prevent them pushing past, mainly because they'll get punched.
And that's the difference, in our little insulated metal boxes we feel safe, we feel like the king or our castle, and so we are more likely to take on risk, that when it's just us and our fists, very few normal people would take on...
"Because maxtorque was driving the mini , its not even funny."
Read my posts, and point out where they suggest i'd drive like that?
“Why are you so concerned about not pissing off speeders?”
er, go back to the original post in the this thread, which is the one where there was nearly a serious collision because some one “got in the way”
Er, from this post...
Just tootling up the A38 to birmingham on the inside lane, lorry pulls on so I check, indicate, then move out, Mr mini in the outside lane was no where near or moving quickly at this point but is now on full beam, flash flash flash and right up my arse!
.... Your read is that the OP nearly caused a serious collision because someone got in the way? How did you get to that conclusion?
Read my posts, and point out where they suggest i’d drive like that?
There are clues - your first contribution to this post;
Anyone who deliberately obstructs another driver, for what ever reason is an idiot.
Without knowing anything other that what's been written on this thread, how in the wide, wide world of sports can you conclude that the OP deliberately obstructed the Mini driver?
Is it time for the 'Where's SurfMatt' when you need him comment?
I can't believe no one has said it yet.
The guy is driving a Mini Countryman. We need to organise an angry mob right now. Never mind his driving, buying one of those should be a capital offense.
Am I the only one who is interested in what Maxtorque would have done in the OP's situation?
Specifically if he/she had been driving the Mini?
I think the synopsis of maxtorques statement is as follows
Pay attention
Forward plan
Anticipate hazards
Don't be a dick
But hey I might be wrong
What would i have done?
As the OP, traveling in no particular hurry in the LH lane:
Used good observation and spotted the "pinch" that was about to occur (namely the lorry about to impede me, and the fact that the RH lane had an approaching vehicle in it, meaning that moving right to clear the lorry could bring me into conflict with that vehicle), and depending on the situation and either (i wasn't there, i don't know what would have been more appropriate, sorry)
a) slowed down in the LH lane, allowed the lorry to join in front of me, and the car on my right to continue past me (least possible conflict, but means i have to slow down, which can have secondary consequences (depends whats behind you, and any braking in heavy traffic can cause bunching and a shunt further down the road)
b) Accelerated in the LH lane, to get "in front" of the truck before it joins (low conflict, but slightly higher risk, as i have to speed up to do this, depends on road being both clear, and it being safe to do so ie no additional hazards identified before this action)
c) Accelerated, indicated, moved right into RH lane to clear the truck, but made sure i was travelling at a speed to actually be pulling away from the car in the RH lane, then smartly move left after passing the truck to clear the RH lane (Some potential conflict, potential for having to exceed limit, but allows me to continue at speed, again, depends on hazard identification
Without being there, or without good observation up to the decision point, it's impossible to say what would have been the "best" choice. It would not be a "snap" decision, but based on previous observation and to so extent road knowledge (ie if you regularly drive the road, you know what fixed hazards are up ahead, and hence can make a more informed decision)
If i'd being driving the mini then:
Approaching a car in the LH lane travelling slower than i am would immediately result in actions, typically
1) Reduction in closing speed, so the point where should they move right, i can stop without hitting them (of course, as speed is time/distance) at some point, if you are going to pass them, this becomes impossible, but realistically, closing speed ought to be appropriate to maintain ones safe space.
2) Position my car to the RHS of the RH lane to maximise visibility and the size of my safe space, and ensure i sit in that cars blind spot for the minimum amount of time
3) Observing the truck coming down the slip road, i know where they are going, i can assume they are likely to be slower than a car, and hence the car in the LH lane may pull right to avoid/let out that truck. (the "pinch" again)
Again, depending on exact timing, hazards and conditions:
a) Slowed down well before i'd got anywhere near the car, presented them with a space in the RH lane (i wouldn't flash them out, the lane is there for them if they want, i won't signal you to use it). Allowed the car to pull out and pass the truck
b) Accelerated, so as to pass the car BEFORE they get to the truck and pull out
c) Accelerated hard, swerved across the slip road de-lineation markings, behind the car in the LH lane, undertaken the truck on the verge as it moves rh onto the main carriageway, whilst giving both drivers the finger and blowing my "dukes of hazzard" horn....
(ok, perhaps not option C, but it's an option right??? 😉
Pay attention
Forward plan
Anticipate hazards
Don’t be a dick
Da edumacation never thtops on dis site dus it.
@wrightyson - here's a way to post footage to the cops
https://www.nextbase.com/en-gb/national-dash-cam-safety-portal/
"Without knowing anything other that what’s been written on this thread, how in the wide, wide world of sports can you conclude that the OP deliberately obstructed the Mini driver?"
i didn't. the don't obstruct other deliberately, what ever the circumstance" quote is referring to the poster on the first page who suggest they deliberately slow down when someone comes up fast behind them in order to obstruct them because they are speeding
The OP made a mistake. Due to a lack of observation, forward planning, training or experience, they got themselves into a dangerous situation that could have been entirely avoided. In this case, they were not the idiots, or the ones who initiated the situation, but as i maintain, being "right" is great and all, but not if it comes at the cost of being "dead".
In the ideal world, all drivers would be considerate, observe and avoid conflict, but that ideal world doesn't exist. Fortunately, there are some really simple, really easy to carry out techniques to avoid conflict, that massively reduce your individual chances of being involved in an accident. Those techniques do however sometimes require you to put your pride aside and be the one to defuse the situation, to pro-actively change your speed or path in order to lower the risks.
On our modern, fast crowded roads, these situations are becoming more and more common. Road rage is real, it affects all of us, so all i am recommending is that you do your best to drive to avoid it.......
Due to a lack of observation, forward planning, training or experience, they got themselves into a dangerous situation that could have been entirely avoided.
Ever think the mini driver could have avoided it using precisely the same techniques?
Maxtorque, are you geex but in a car?
Not only could have the mini driver avoided the incident, even worse for them they SHOULD have avoided the incident.
It's clear the mini driver was a * and the OP got mixed up in their *tery, for what ever reason. It wasn't the OP's fault, but they could have de-escalated the situation. Lets be honest, look at the pic the OP has put up, we could very well be sat here with both drivers up in front of the courts for causing death by dangerous driving. And that is my only point, who ever started it, it's in your best interest to be the one to do what-ever is necessary to avoid the situation spiraling out of control.
Don't get me wrong, that is hard, especially for us men, to put our pride aside to be the one accept the situation and defuse it, especially when we feel it's the other drivers "fault"
I'm not geex, because i can happily admit i'm not a great driver and there are plenty of mistakes i've made and continue to make, that i can always learn from others, no matter their skill or experience level. But on the flip side, i've been lucky enough to have a job where driving, and driving very high performance cars, has allowed me to gain a skill set beyond that of the average driver on our roads. But being "better than average" does not make me great, far from it. The biggest difference that an advanced driver can bring is attitude, rather than any particular skill. Particularly being able to analyse what happened when you (inevitably) make a mistake is a true advantage, and one i try to use wherever possible
BTW, for cases such as the OP's it would be interesting to see the entire, un-edited footage, especially if their dash cam includes a rear facing camera.
I'm not suggesting they actually did wrong, but what ever they did annoyed the other driver to the point where they were willing to cause an accident to get back at the OP, and it would be instructive for all to see exactly what that was...........
BTW, just for reference, this is the level of stupidity on our roads:
Watch how a minor incident ramps up, and how drivers with no driving skill end up, upside down in the hedge! (thanks to modern cars, they both walked away, had there been pedestrians or a bus stop where they crashed they would both be doing time for man-slaughter.....)
(I am NOT a driving god)
I have to agree with some of what maxtorque is saying. Good observation is the first step to Avoidance of a hazard. Or in H&S speak Elimination of the hazard. If you can eliminate the hazard (as he says avoid conflict) this isn’t the best option in hierarchy of control so for risk. That being said, mini driver was a weapons-grade “C-bomb” for his/her actions.
@pondo, I know a guy who most definitely would have been safer with a bit more speed (restricted vehicle) which would have helped him when the lorry he was overtaking drifted into his lane and nearly rammed him into the central reservations. Different circumstance I know but it does happen.
Quite.
Accelerating to avoid an accident is rarely the best option. But it is an option, and is it not good to have as many options as possible at your disposal?
Not exactly the same scenario, but it's happened to me. Driving through a lights-controlled crossroads in Manchester, car coming from the left ran the red light at speed. If I'd dropped anchor he'd have taken my front end off; done nothing and he'd have t-boned me; swerved too far and I'm into oncoming traffic. So I booted it, hard, whilst moving over to the right as much as I could without encroaching into traffic. He shot behind me missing me by not much, I don't think he even slowed down.
In hindsight maybe it was the wrong thing to do as it was a risk, but I had to make a decision fast and I cannot see any other way I could have avoided that collision other than better observation to see him coming earlier. I've learned from that and now never trust a green light, I always double-check traffic from the sides.
It's rare, but it does happen. There's probably other instances over the years if I were to give it more thought. The drifting vehicles CJ describes has certainly happened to me more than once, but again forward planning is the best mitigation here, don't hang around alongside other vehicles.
Unfortunately Cougar, not much you can do when while overtaking a lorry (overtaking another lorry) and said lorry gives it an extra 1-2mph and you now can’t get past! It’s why I’ve been trying to convince work that setting the limit at 80mph still stops the excessive speed but gives you that little bit extra as an option if needed. Ive lost count of the number of cars who seemingly “don’t want to let that white van man over take me!” and I then have no choice but to drop back a whole car length to pull back behind the them, or keep going till they’re forced to slow due to other traffic in front if I can’t drop back. Also, leap-frog with the same car for half an hour or more sometimes because my speed is constant and theirs isn’t!
I always double-check traffic from the sides.
I assumed everyone did this anyway? As my driving instructor told me some 30+ years ago 'red means stop, amber means stop, green means proceed with caution'.
Just got an email telling my to stop trying to avoid the swear filter!
apparently
1) the "t" word is considered swearing (i guess the mods live sheltered lives eh 😉 )
and
2) T then a letter, then a star then a letter is not ok, but 4 stars is?
I'm not saying we should have a free-for-all on swearing on this forum, but really, that seems a little bit silly in 2019 doesn't it?
(mods note: i'm not complaining, i genuinely didn't know that to swear i had to make sure i used all stars rather than some letters separated by stars, from now on i'll make sure i swear in full symbol mode)
The OP made a mistake.
Right - I think I might be getting a handle on your thinking now - what mistake do you think he made?
Fair play @crazyjenkins01 and @Cougar, moving past a drifting vehicle is of courses an entirely legitimate reason to go full loud (and getting the F out of the way of red light jumpers, although thank the good lord I've not had that happen to me).
I think in some european countries a vehicle is not allowed to overtake another vehicle unless its going a percentage (10?) faster. This prevents the 48/52 lorry standoffs that last for bloody ages on dual carriageways.
I am sure I saw it on a doc about a fire in a big alpine tunnel?
I have to agree with some of what maxtorque is saying
Yeah. I think they're getting a bit of a pasting for coming across as a little patronizing (I'm sure not intentionally). But I agree with what they have said. If people want to drive badly, let them get on with it. There's nothing I can do, in my car, that will teach them the error of their ways, so I'd much sooner minimise any potential conflict and let them jog on.
For reference, I am not a driving god 🙂
@maxtorque just swear as much as you like, the filter sorts it all out. Its actually a lot easier.
Yeah I get that @tomparkin, and that's what I try to do (most of the time!) but I won't get forced to move if I can't do it safely. I'll move to protect my self and others from idiots, but I won't move just cos someone's on my ar$e and cant wait 10 seconds
Meh
Guy pulls out guy behind is a prick.
Guy should maybe check mirrors more often
Prick should be done as not only a prick hes an angry dangerous reactive prick.
Dezb I'm glad you find my comments help full. And using poor English to suggest I'm or other people who cant construct sentences are thick makes all us dyslexic feel really speshul
Theres ****s everywhere online on the roads just be aware they're there
I'm not sure what the fuss is about?
OP pulls out
Guy behind flashes
OP gives middle finger
Guy brake tests him when he gets in front.
Nothing happened and everyone goes about their day, normal thing you see on the road between other drivers.
Don't bother the police please, they have far more important things to deal with...