[Closed] So my bro got caught speeding

Then my instructor must have been talking bollocks as well. And the examiner that gave me a minor for driving too slowly at one point (but not consistently).

[quote=bails ]Does that take account of the thinking/reaction time? 'Thinking' for a second at 90mph will cover a bigger distance than at 70mph. So you're already ~30% further down the road before you even touch the brake pedal.

I wondered that and nearly suggested it - but then I did the calcs. Assuming a 1g stop which is about right for a modern car* then the difference in actual stopping distance from 90 to 70 and 70 to 0 is ~17m. The reaction time would have to be 2s for that to be the difference in distance travelled at 70 and 90.

At least I had dismissed that until I googled and found http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/highway-code-car-stopping-distances-wrong-drivers-thinking-time-brake-rac-a7859061.html which suggests real world thinking time of 1.5s. So again doing the calcs that makes the total stopping distance from 70mph 97m (47m thinking, 50m stopping at 1g) the thinking distance at 90mph 60m, hence 37m to brake which would get you down to 67mph. Seems close enough to be right if real world is 1.5s reaction and 1g braking.

trail_rat - Member

But don't let that stop your misinformed preconceptions

That crossing your arms and letting the wheel slip through your fingers are likely to lead to a minor?

You want to argue against that?

Interesting gambit, admittedly.

Hmm. Don't entirely agree with this, especially on motorways.

Anticipation.

A key part of being a safe driver.

FYI AFAIK there’s only one place in the country with a minimum speed limit.

You may disagree, but the Doris doing 45 mph isn’t doing anything wrong. If you can’t anticipate traffic then you need some remedial on your driving.

Mrs F used to be an advanced instructor

There's the issue right there.. Female instructors..

squirrelking - Member

Then my instructor must have been talking bollocks as well. And the examiner that gave me a minor for driving too slowly at one point (but not consistently).

Likewise.
My examiner actually wanted to mark me down twice, but I argued against one as he hadn't (couldn't from the passenger seat) spotted a hazard that I was reacting to.

Surfmatt=awesome

That crossing your arms and letting the wheel slip through your fingers are likely to lead to a minor?

You want to argue against that?

Interesting gambit, admittedly.

very good i see what you did there.... your first argument failed on facts so you did the old switcharoo "of course i meant this"

maybe phone dvsa centre and have the argument with someone that cares. , after all they performed the assessment from the passenger seat and signed off on it.

as for me , I'm off to fit my new forks.

CAN YOU BE FINED FOR DRIVING TOO SLOW
Although there is no minimum speed limit on the majority of UK roads, you can still be fined for driving too slow if it is seen that you are a hazard to other road users. There is no specific penalty for driving too slowly and as such, penalties may be as little as a verbal warning by a police officer along with a lecture of the dangers of driving too slow and in more serious cases, a motorist may find themselves in court charged with driving without due care and attention or without reasonable consideration for other road users (penalty code CD30). The more serious penalty CD30 comes with penalty points on a motorists licence, anywhere from 3 to 9 along with a fine. Penalty points stay on a motorists licence for four years from the date of the offence and are likely to seriously impact the cost of car insurance.

The amount of penalty points set between 3 and 9 and a fine of anything up to a maximum of £5,000 are determined by the seriousness of the incident and the decision of the court.

IF DRIVING EXCESSIVELY SLOW IS DANGEROUS, WHAT SHOULD I DO?
Driving too slow may originate from an driving incident that has knocked the confidence out of them, making them feel vulnerable and scared behind the wheel. For others, they may hold the belief that it is in fact safer, whilst others may drive excessively slow to save on fuel.

If you are unable to break the driving too slow habit yourself, seek the guidance of a qualified driving instructor. Refresher driving lessons are essentially offered to those that can drive, but need to require lost driving skills. This short driving course often lasting just a few hours will see the instructor impart their knowledge and skills, making you a more confident and safer driver.

IF DRIVING SLOWLY IS DANGEROUS, HOW SHOULD I DRIVE?
Quite simply, if weather, road and traffic conditions allow, drive at whatever the speed limit is on that particular road.

https://www.drivingtesttips.biz/minimum-speed-limits-driving-too-slow.html

Also: https://www.saga.co.uk/magazine/motoring/cars/using/why-driving-too-slowly-is-dangerous

So yes, Doris is clearly in the wrong by driving at half the posted limit when conditions allow full speed.

Smell my cheese.

[img] [/img]

trail_rat - Member

very good i see what you did there.... your first argument failed on facts so you did the old switcharoo "of course i meant this"

Yes I changed my mind from my first reply to you:

You can hardly claim a clean sheet on a proper driving test when, IIRC, you admitted to crossing your arms and letting the wheel slip through your grip, both likely to get you a minor.

to

That crossing your arms and letting the wheel slip through your fingers are likely to lead to a minor?

Yes, I can see how my point that crossing your arms and letting the wheel slip through your fingers are likely to lead to a minor has changed considerably.

have the argument with someone that cares

I believe it's quite obvious that there is at least one person that does.

Politics, religion and pointing out flaws in someone's driving. 😆
Enjoy your forks.

B = car licence
E = trailer competency

Ah, of course. Thanks.

You'll fail if you don't drive to the posted limits [b]unless there's a valid reason not to.[/b]

Mrs F used to be an advanced instructor and assured me you won’t fail for driving under the limit. This is due to the fact that 99% of the time there is a reason not to. Raining, too sunny, talll hedges, pedestrians etc

Isn't that precisely what I just said?

Incidentally, if she's an advanced instructor, does that mean she's qualified to comment on how to pass the regular test which holds a driver to different standards?

My uncle did get stopped by the police for driving too slow. He was doing around 25 in a 40 IIRC.

(that was clearly many years ago when traffic police existed)

At an indicated 65 your actual speed is probably [s]58-59mph[/s] 61-62mph, [s]2-3mph[/s] 5-6mph faster than the lorries who are doing 56mph. How slowly do you walk?

About half that fast.

About half that fast.

Can we just assume I said "very slow" rather than "walking pace" please?

What have i started!

Can we just assume I said "very slow" rather than "walking pace" please?

If you think it helps you to make your point, be my guest.

edward2000 - Member

What have i started!

A driving thread! 😀

Everyone must have come across the odd occassion where the lorry in the inside suddenly comes across Doris in her Micra doing 45 and has to pull out pretty quickly into the middle lane and as a result probably causing the person in the middle lane cruising at 70 out into the outside.

Yes, but at the same time if everything in the outer 2 lanes is doing 70, when Eddie Stobart has to move out at 56, you don't have to lift off much to allow him space to do so, or if you want you have time to move safely into a gap in the outside lane which is going at the same speed as you are anyway.

Except you can't because you're doing 75 already and there's no space in the outside lane because of the steady stream of german saloons making progress at 85 with their noses stuck up the arse of the car in fron precisely so you can't move out.

So while Doris might be causing the issue, and as rightly noted too slow can be a hazard too, it's still the too fast, and specifically the speed differential, that is substantially exacerbating it.

@ molgrips a page or so back. You're right, 30mph outside a school at kicking out time is optimistic, doesn't stop some ****s from trying it though. And as long as it's only 2 wheels on the pavement so they can squeeze through past the parked cars, that still leaves what - a foot gap between the kids and parents and their 1500kg of entitlement. Plenty.

Cougar - Moderator

Can we just assume I said "very slow" rather than "walking pace" please?

No, we need you to provide peer reviewed research to exactly quantify what walking pace equates to, otherwise you're wrong, which is all that matters.

Next week's hot topic:
"Back in five minutes"

Coincidence, but it made me laugh:

Next week's hot topic:
"Back in five minutes"

POSTED 6 MINUTES AGO

making progress at 85

A minor irritation. 😉

The IAM use the term "making progress" to describe driving that is only within the speed limit.
The IAM does not condone breaking the speed limit.
Using the term to describe driving in excess of the speed limit only shows ignorance of the IAM.

I can only imagine that the collective ridicule is used as an excuse for drivers to not bother furthering their tuition post driving test, which very few bother to do. 💡

[quote=Cougar ]Can we just assume I said "very slow" rather than "walking pace" please?

Well you're the mod...

(I was going to point out my speedo doesn't over-read by that much - the clue should have been that trucks do less than 60mph indicated on my speedo)

[quote=Cougar ]You seem to have misread. I said,
"So you'd either have to be constantly weaving in and out of traffic or sat in the middle lane for miles on end."[i]

or maybe you did 😉 because I pointed out a circumstance where you don't have to do either of those things, hence that's an inaccurate statement. Again, my experience of motorways is clearly different to yours (maybe to a lot of people here?) As I normally find I only have to overtake a maximum of two lorries at once before moving back into the left lane (no matter how fast I'm going), which would take less than a mile even at 65mph.

If you habitually drive at 65pmh on the motorway it's likely that you're also a paid-up member of the Lane Two Owners' Club.

Though as I've given an example where that's not the case it's clearly not definitive - the issue here is that middle lane driving is bad, not that driving at 65mph is.

You can almost certainly drive at 20mph in the middle lane and inconvenience nobody if the rest of the traffic is similarly slowed or if it's 4am.

or to get rid of any strawmen you could be driving in the left lane at 65mph at 10pm when the motorway isn't completely empty but there are no trucks. As was the case last time I was on a motorway.

Using the term to describe driving in excess of the speed limit only shows ignorance of the IAM.

Whilst I don't disagree with your point, the IAM do not have exclusive copyright on the term and people are free to use it to mean whatever they want it to mean.

A minor irritation

It's become a bit of a STW meme to indicate driving like a nob, and I'll hoof anyone in the slats if they tell me I can't use it any more 😉

Can we just have another Brexit thread instead?

Isn't that precisely what I just said?

Incidentally, if she's an advanced instructor, does that mean she's qualified to comment on how to pass the regular test which holds a driver to different standards?

Considering she did that before getting to the whole advanced part then, yes, yes she is (or was).

I think what I and others were trying to say is pretty much what you’ve said to be honest. Drive to the conditions, but within the limits. The problem is the number of muppets out there who will still do 40 in sheeting rain or heavy fog, just because the limit states 40.

Considering she did that before getting to the whole advanced part then, yes, yes she is (or was).

Fair enough. It was a genuine question BTW, I wasn't being an arse.

aracer - Member
bikebouy » My average since leaving the showroom shows 33mph, and I’ve just clocked 3900miles since new..
Whilst it’s no proof of any speeding offences caused/not caused it’s a clear indication of the speeds I do.
Not necessarily - it might just be that you spend a lot of time in traffic jams and floor it whenever you have the opportunity (recently my trip average speed was very low because my car had spent significant time idling on the drive). Average speed over the lifetime of a car is a very useless piece of information.

I disagree.

I use the M27/M3/A1/A3/A2 a lot, and obviously suburban locations. So no, the information isn't useless I see it as an piece of information to show that there are some of us in the UK where we have no desire to speed and really don't rely on a sense of misguided entitlement to drive like dicks and speed, when there is no logical nor legal requirement to do so.

I'm not alone, a summary glance at the comments in this thread leads me to believe there are humbly more folks that drive like I do around, which is very satisfying news TBH because I was coming to the conclusion that to own a car means you must drive flat chat everywhere and act like an irresponsible loony with a misguided sense of arrogant entitlement.

Keep your speeding to the race tracks, there are plenty of places off the PUBLIC roads where you may take all your inner angst out on inanimate objects and not inflict idiocy and aggression on other humans who occupy a bit of space invariably in front of you that you feel you want to bully out of the way and get to your destination 11 seconds quicker than the person you've just bullied off the road.

[quote=bikebouy ]I use the M27/M3/A1/A3/A2 a lot, and obviously suburban locations. So no, the information isn't useless I see it as an piece of information to show that there are some of us in the UK where we have no desire to speed and really don't rely on a sense of misguided entitlement to drive like dicks and speed, when there is no logical nor legal requirement to do so.

Except it doesn't show that at all. It provides precisely zero information about whether you habitually speed - the 40 everywhere brigade would likely have a similar average speed. My current trip average speed is similar, yet that includes spells of speeding on the motorway (so shoot me), the above mentioned trip travelling at 65 and some hypermiling sitting behind trucks. Also plenty of time spent driving around town under the speed limit - however if my driving around town consisted of flooring it between traffic lights that would make barely any difference to my average speed.

I'm not alone, a summary glance at the comments in this thread leads me to believe there are humbly more folks that drive like I do around, which is very satisfying news TBH because I was coming to the conclusion that to own a car means you must drive flat chat everywhere and act like an irresponsible loony with a misguided sense of arrogant entitlement.

In case you hadn't nooticed, I'm one of the ones on here supporting you (and the motorway is the only place I'll speed, though even that's rare for me nowadays - I'll justify my difference in attitude by the absence of vulnerable road users from motorways).

I'll justify my difference in attitude by the absence of vulnerable road users from motorways

Motorcyclists are highly vulnerable on motorways.

They're also mostly going faster than me...

I'm not sure where it was stated that speeding equals bullying folk off the road but I don't think anyone here (except you) suggested it did much less defended such behaviour. Have you ever stopped to consider though that your own behaviour may be the catalyst for such a reaction?

Maybe instead of wafting along on a wave of self righteousness you could spend your time taking some refresher lessons and ask the instructors for their thoughts on the matter. I dare say they will say the same as the articles I already referenced.

[quote=squirrelking ]Have you ever stopped to consider though that your own behaviour may be the catalyst for such a reaction?

Bingo. Let's blame the person going slower for people being aggressive on the roads.

I'm not sure where it was stated that speeding equals bullying folk off the road but I don't think anyone here (except you) suggested it did [b]much less defended such behaviour[/b]

Bingo, failed to read the whole post.

So yes, Doris is clearly in the wrong by driving at half the posted limit when conditions allow full speed

By the letter of the law, it would seem so, however you'd have to prove she was a hazard. Given that trucks are limited to 56 (?) I don't think she'd be much of a hazard at 45. Interesting though, I wasn't aware of such an offence. I guess all those years I spent driving combines & tractors (20mph tops) & the coppers that I drove past weren't aware of it either.

Or perhaps they just didn't see it as that big a deal - whose to say hey.

One of the things I did pick up from my awareness course was the necessity to be a polite, considerate & patient driver. Do unto others & all that jazz.

That obviously goes both ways - both slower & faster drivers need to be aware of each other.

The bottom line is the limit is a limit not a target, I've happily driven below the posted limit in my turbo-charged Beetle & will do so when I please. You want to go faster? Overtake. Just don't go getting all impatient & entitled - the road is there to share, it's a privilege not a right.

Trucks might be doing 56 mph but what about anyone else doing 70? That's a hell of a speed differential and all the more dangerous when entering the motorway.

How often did you drive agricultural vehicles on the motorway anyway, if you don't mind me asking?

I'm all for limit not target but if you're driving slower than conditions allow then clearly something is deficient. If you're not confident driving to the conditions you shouldn't be on the road, end of. Bad drivers are bad drivers be they fast or slow (or often, both). Similarly people should exercise patience as not every vehicle can go (or should go) as fast as everyone else. Like you say consideration works both ways, if you fancy a dawdle for no other reason than because you feel entitled to then get out and have a walk and stop holding up traffic.

If the slow moving vehicle is in the left hand lane with other slow moving vehicles, lets say 45-65, you've still got another 2 lanes to work with. That should be plenty of room for a competent, aware, observant drive to navigate their way round that vehicle.

That's a hell of a speed differential and all the more dangerous when entering the motorway.

It's a slip road - not a drag strip.

How often did you drive agricultural vehicles on the motorway anyway, if you don't mind me asking?

I didn't as the ones I drove weren't allowed to as they could only reach about 25mph,but I did believe you can drive a JCB Fastrac as they can do 45mph..

It's a slip road for merging into traffic, pulling in at half the speed isn't merging. Go read a highway code before you embarrass yourself further, that was just ridiculous.

And no, you will only have have one or more lanes to work with as the heavy traffic will already be overtaking them. This then causes traffic already in an overtaking lane to slow down, then the traffic behind them, and so on. Concertina effect into traffic jam all because some doddery idiot can't use the road properly.

if you fancy a road ride for no other reason than because you feel entitled to, then get out and have a walk and stop holding up traffic.

Go read a highway code before you embarrass yourself further, that was just ridiculous.

Looking in the mirror?

Concertina effect into traffic jam all because some doddery idiot can't use the road properly.

Now you just come across as impatient & entitled. Long has been my hunch. You'll learn one day, if you're lucky.

What roadies? Oh are they drafting Lebowski in his combine whilst the HA gaze on in amazement from the hard shoulder?

Bog off back under your viaduct.

You can drive tractors on the motorway if they are taxed and fuelled with white diesel. I know because I googled it after seeing two going down the M5 a couple of years ago.

[img] [/img]

No I didn’t take the photo whilst I was driving, do you think I’m some kind of self-entitled speeder or something 😆

I did hear they had banned speeding, apparently they banned fox hunting and smoking in work vehicles too 😆 😀

For those who think no limits on motorways is a good thing, check out Germany. There are only 388 kms of limit-free Autobahn left and they have a much higher accident rate than the rest of the network despite being the sections deemed safe enough to leave limit free. The accident rate on the limt-free section is three times the French autoroute accident rate (le Figaro) and much higher than the rest of the German network. Page 89 of this if you read German:

I'm not sure anyone has yet advocated no speed restrictions on a motorway have they? I'll stand by my comments that doing 120 in my car on an empty straight motorway is perfectly safe, but doing anything like that speed with other traffic about is reckless and will inevitably lead to crashes.

And given the speed limits don't account for road conditions, I have no issues keeping the limit at 70.

squirrelking - Member
I'm not sure where it was stated that speeding equals bullying folk off the road but I don't think anyone here (except you) suggested it did much less defended such behaviour. Have you ever stopped to consider though that your own behaviour may be the catalyst for such a reaction?

Maybe instead of wafting along on a wave of self righteousness you could spend your time taking some refresher lessons and ask the instructors for their thoughts on the matter. I dare say they will say the same as the articles I already referenced.

I totally does mean speeding is bullying ! What rights do you, or anybody, have for that matter to speed? You have absolutely NONE. You have no rights using your car to intimidate nor threaten ANYONE on the Public Highway. That includes busy roadways, open sections and clear carriageways, you still have NO rights to speed and by speeding you are intimidating other people on that road. You have absolutely no idea of what is around the bend, whats in the road, other road users if you are speeding. DOn't come back to me with an excuse "I do, I've been driving fast for XX years, I'm awesome" because you are simply breaking the law when you speed.
Trying to out me by pointing out that I drive slowly and within ALL speed limits is futile. I abide by them and drive courteously purely for the fact that I'm not an imbecile and have consideration for other road users.
Quite how you defend your position by claiming MY driving is inconsiderate clearly opens up yourself to your own inability to drive courteously, you lack consideration for other road users by stating such utter nonsense. That Sir is not my fault and perhaps if you can not use the Road network and take EVERYONE else on that road into consideration then please hand your license in and catch a bus. We'd prefer you not be on the Road.

Keep digging and trying to defend a loosing situation you find yourself in, Yes I have the moral majority on my side and I reckon you sit behind the wheel bemoaning a small amount of traffic infront of you when you drive anywhere, no doubt proclaiming under your breath "jeeeeze, chuffing granddads get outa my way" whilst in the back of your mind thinking you are so important that you can intimidate other road users into causing distractions.

Drive like a Dick all you like, but you have no rights to speed nor intimidate whilst using a vehicle. The sooner You and Everyone else realises this the better.

I await your comeback, for sure you'll defend your position by picking on or using intimidation or provocation to defend your self and every other speeder that drives like a nobber.

In fact, if you speed and get caught I'd most definitely support a proposal that a huge sticker be placed on the back of your vehicle proclaiming that you speed and are a idiot for doing so and that you have been caught and have X number points on your license.. a great big Red sticker with all the information contained in large letters..
This will allow all us normal folk to visually spot what type of vehicle user you are.

HTHs.

I've only twice been on an empty straight motorway in the UK. New Year's day 1988 in the small hours and we were first off an almost empty boat in Dover. The other time was on a bicycle on the M42 before it opened.

Edit: good to see someone's got around to telling it like it is, bikebouy.

I totally does mean speeding is bullying ! What rights do you, or anybody, have for that matter to speed? You have absolutely NONE. You have no rights using your car to intimidate nor threaten ANYONE on the Public Highway. That includes busy roadways, open sections and clear carriageways, you still have NO rights to speed and by speeding you are intimidating other people on that road. You have absolutely no idea of what is around the bend, whats in the road, other road users if you are speeding. DOn't come back to me with an excuse "I do, I've been driving fast for XX years, I'm awesome" because you are simply breaking the law when you speed.
Trying to out me by pointing out that I drive slowly and within ALL speed limits is futile. I abide by them and drive courteously purely for the fact that I'm not an imbecile and have consideration for other road users.
Quite how you defend your position by claiming MY driving is inconsiderate clearly opens up yourself to your own inability to drive courteously, you lack consideration for other road users by stating such utter nonsense. That Sir is not my fault and perhaps if you can not use the Road network and take EVERYONE else on that road into consideration then please hand your license in and catch a bus. We'd prefer you not be on the Road.

Keep digging and trying to defend a loosing situation you find yourself in, Yes I have the moral majority on my side and I reckon you sit behind the wheel bemoaning a small amount of traffic infront of you when you drive anywhere, no doubt proclaiming under your breath "jeeeeze, chuffing granddads get outa my way" whilst in the back of your mind thinking you are so important that you can intimidate other road users into causing distractions.

Drive like a Dick all you like, but you have no rights to speed nor intimidate whilst using a vehicle. The sooner You and Everyone else realises this the better.

I await your comeback, for sure you'll defend your position by picking on or using intimidation or provocation to defend your self and every other speeder that drives like a nobber.

In fact, if you speed and get caught I'd most definitely support a proposal that a huge sticker be placed on the back of your vehicle proclaiming that you speed and are a idiot for doing so and that you have been caught and have X number points on your license.. a great big Red sticker with all the information contained in large letters..
This will allow all us normal folk to visually spot what type of vehicle user you are.

HTHs.

I've only twice been on an empty straight motorway in the UK.

you have no rights using your car to intimidate nor threaten ANYONE on the Public Highway. That includes busy roadways, open sections and clear carriageways,

Say what?

Admit it, you're just pissy because some people occasionly break the rules when you [s]choose to[/s] have to obey at all times 😉

😯 Wow.

When you're done making stuff up in your head you're going to realise what a prat you're making of yourself. I never said or advocated any of that, I have only said people should drive to the conditions within the posted limits. If you are too stupid to understand what that means or to understand that people overtaking you when YOU are going slower than the limit aren't necessarily speeding then frankly I don't think I'm up to the job of correcting that.

I'd suggest either getting lessons or handing your licence in if you can use the road network neither competently nor confidently.

Bikebouy.. Get a grip man. Noone is condoning bullying other drivers.. And if you can't help but feel intimidated when someone passes you slightly over the speed limit, I'm going to suggest you grow a set.

Pretty much north of Preston on the M6 right up to Hamilton on the M74 has lot's of empty streches of good motorway at various times throughout the day

Yep, that's the road I'm referring too. Often been on there at 9pm and had 3 lanes all too myself for miles. Would be perfectly safe to go as fast as I wanted in those situations.. I don't, but not because I think it's unsafe.

So let’s take this to where it should go. What other laws are you all comfortable breaking? I think graffiti should be allowed, after all nobody is getting hurt.

What makes me laugh is that some of you that consciously speed are probably the same posters that cry outrage when somebody keeps something that Amazon delivered in error. Hypocritestrackworld.

It's not "breaking the rules" though is it. It's breaking the law. What other laws shall we all just randomly decide that we're not going to respect on the basis we are better placed to judge whether they make sense or not than the State?

Edit: what Funk said

What other laws are you all comfortable breaking?

Recreational drug use (not much these days, but in principle). Trespass (not really a law but...) Parts of the Criminal Justice Act of 1994 about dancing to repetitive music etc... I could go on?

Some laws are silly. It's a fact. Make your own mind up. Wasn't it illegal to be a gayer a while back?

EDIT: Not saying speed laws are silly, far from it. But If it's an open road in the middle of the night... etc etc ad nauseaum...

What other laws are you all comfortable breaking?

It's not "breaking the rules" though is it. It's breaking the law.

I can't imagine living my life to the letter of the law or some set of rules someone has devised for others to follow. I can't even bring myself to imagine what a world would look like if everyone did so.

Ok cool, carry on then. It's not even your fault that you're part of the problem. We as a society are conditioned to believe that thousands of deaths and serious injuries on our roads are the price worth paying for the covenience of the private car ownership dream. It's such a massive blind spot in our social values and people in the future will look back and wonder why we were all so mental about it. Respect to the people on here who get it and want to do what they can to make a difference.

Jamb

Loads of open roads in the New Forest where in the middle of the night you won't see another car for miles. That's when the hit and runs on the livestock happen. I posted a while back a link from a Police force which said motorists can't be trusted to behave responsibly and they were right. That's why we need objective enforcement of our road traffic laws without exception.

Not all within last year but broken most of these at one point or several points. Can anyone claim they have never broken any of these?

http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/25/how-many-of-these-laws-have-you-broken-in-the-last-year-6803780/

1. Drank alcohol under the age of 18
2. Sworn or gestured to other road users
3. Eaten or drank whilst driving
4. Vacuumed between the hours of 6pm and 8am on a weekday or 1pm and 8am on a Saturday or on a Sunday
5. Parked partly on a pavement
6. Cycled on pavements
7. Speeding while driving
8. Pocketed change when given wrong amount
9. Beeped a horn for any reason other than alerting traffic
10. Been drunk on the street, in a pub or in a restaurant
11. Changed a CD while driving
12. Had sex in a public place
13. Bought cigarettes under the age of 18
14. Dropped litter
15. Taken illegal drugs
16. Disturbed people by ringing their doorbells / knocking at their doors and leaving before being answered (or playing knock, knock, ginger - also known as knock down ginger)
17. Not worn a seatbelt during a car journey
18. Flown a kite in a park
19. Used a fake name on the internet
20. Stuck a postage stamp upside down
21. Used a mobile phone while driving
22. Cycled without lights after dark
23. Parked on double yellow lines
24. Driven through a red light
25. Not paid for a carrier bag at a self-service check-out
26. Had sex when you were under 16 years of age
27. Not had a TV licence and watched TV
28. Used someone else’s Wi-Fi without them knowing
29. Smoked in a non-smoking area
30. Thrown tree cuttings back over your neighbours’ garden
31. Claimed an item at the self-service till without paying for it
32. Taken a child out of school for a holiday - without the head teacher’s permission
33. Not informed the DVLA of a change of name or address
34. Not cleaned up after your dog has pooed on the street/public path
35. Cycled through a red light
36. Fiddled your expenses
37. Sung or chanted a crude football chant in the street
38. Gone fishing without a licence
39. Parked opposite a junction
40. Put makeup on while driving

*prints page to tick items off*

Put makeup on while driving

Dammit!

Was doing so well!

Ok cool, carry on then. It's not even your fault that you're part of the problem. We as a society are conditioned to believe that thousands of deaths and serious injuries on our roads are the price worth paying for the covenience of the private car ownership dream. It's such a massive blind spot in our social values and people in the future will look back and wonder why we were all so mental about it. Respect to the people on here who get it and want to do what they can to make a difference.

But.. Noone is saying that.

Noone is condoning driving dangerously in a fashion that puts others at risk. You seemed to have glossed over that point.

Tell me, what is more dangerous.. Me driving at 29 in a 30 at 4pm outside a school.. Or driving on a deserted motorway at 120 in a car that is designed to go far in excess of that.

*prints page to tick items off*

Put makeup on while driving

Dammit!

Was doing so well!

28 out of 40, badass that I am.

No tp that's exactly the point I am trying to make. In my view I don't think it's right for it to be up to the individual to decide when it is safe and when it is dangerous to break the law. You might think it's safe to drive at 120 down a deserted motorway but you can't possibly know for sure whether a deer will run across the road or there's debris in your lane or any other number of unforeseen events that might materialise. And that's why there's a speed limit. It's the normalisation of the attitude that it's ok to break the speed limit, that's it socially acceptable to do that, that's the problem

How does one steal someone else's wifi?

Asking for research purposes of course.

32. Taken a child out of school for a holiday - without the head teacher’s permission

Not done that one. Sounds serious that, kidnapping no?

Me driving at 29 in a 30 at 4pm outside a school

In my view I don't think it's right for it to be up to the individual to decide when it is safe

I think I'm better judged to decide whether it's safe than some bloke in the 60s who based his figure on cars with drum brakes and no idea of the road conditions I'm experiencing at that time..

Again.. I have to reiterate that I've never had a crash and have had no points in 25 years.. So I imagine I'm a pretty good judge of when my driving is safe.

You drive too fast past schools tpbiker, 29mph is too fast::

20 mph speed limits and zones

The Department for Transport encourages the use of either '20 mph speed limits' or '20 mph speed limit zones' in urban situations where vulnerable road users are at particular risk.[20]

In 1998 the TRL reported[21] that signed 20 mph (32 km/h) speed limits only reduced traffic speeds by about 1 mph and delivered no discernible reduction in accident numbers but that 20 mph zones achieved average speed reductions of 10 mph with child pedestrian accident reductions of 70% and child cyclist accident reductions of 48%.[22] The report noted that the cost of wide area traffic calming was prohibitive.
20 mph speed limits

20 mph speed limits are based on signage alone and are used where 85th percentile speeds are already below 24 mph.[20]

A report published in 2010 by the Department for Transport regarding Portsmouth City Council's 20 mph (32 km/h) speed limit on 410 km (250 mi) of the city's 438 km (272 mi) of roads found a small (1.3 mph) reduction in traffic speed and a small 8% increase in the number of serious accidents – neither of which were statistically significant – and a 21% reduction in the number of accidents. There was a 6% increase in the numbers killed or seriously injured (KSI) – also not statistically significant due to the small numbers involved – and a 22% reduction in the total number of road casualties.[23]
20 mph zones
Road sign used to mark the start of a 20 mph zone

In places where 20 mph speeds are desired but where excessive speeds (85th percentile speed of 24 mph or above) occur, 20 mph zones are recommended. These have to use traffic calming measures to reduce speeds to below 20 mph.[24]

In 1992 David Harding-Price a parish councillor in Barrow-Upon-Humber proposed a 20 mph speed limit outside the local school. This was rejected by the council. By August 2002, Kingston upon Hull had introduced 112 20-mph zones and 190 km of roads subject to a 20 mph limit covering 26% of the city's streets which they described as contributing to "dramatic reductions in road casualties". Total collisions were reduced by 56%, Killed & seriously injured collisions down 90%, child casualties collisions down 64% and all pedestrian collisions down 54% and child pedestrian collisions down 74%.[25]

A report published in 2008 estimated that following the introduction of 20 mph zones in London, a reduction of casualties by 45% and KSI by 57% occurred.[26]

What other laws shall we all just randomly decide that we're not going to respect on the basis we are better placed to judge whether they make sense or not than the State?

I sometimes can’t believe that this is a chat forum on a cycling website. Comes across like Top Gear on most car threads. 😉

I find it bizzare that people will knowingly break laws that can and do result in the deaths of others. I’m no saint, quite the opposite in my youth, but always drive within the limits. There can be very serious consequences if you don’t.

You really need to read the highway code and keep your eyes open, tpbiker

In Scotland.. Is that a fact? Evidence please? It's down to local councils as far as I am aware. So prove it.. Or study up yourself..

If it helps, I also go through red lights on my bike if there's no one around to see.

*runs away*

It’s a 30mph limit past my local primary school. Not 20.

Help me out here But neighbors swingset ? classed as public place ?

12. Had sex in a public place

You drive too fast past schools tpbiker, 29mph is too fast

I used that as an example comparison clearly.. I don't drive past any schools othwr than one which is in an area which is 20,for the entire area.. so your your assertion that I drive too fast is clearly nonsense.

But anyway.. Back to Highway code.. 20 mph mandatory outside schools.. Prove it.. Or get studying..

It’s a 30mph limit past my local primary school. Not 20.

As thought.. It's down to council discretion..

I suggest someone uses their eyes more while driving and studies up on the highway code then..

Or keeps quiet on stuff they clearly know nothing about..

It’s a 30mph limit past my local primary school. Not 20.