[Closed] So Lance Armstrong is going to confess...

It would suprise me,any confession will cost him the thick end of 14m US in the bonus and Times cases alone,and the potential of spending some of his tri competition time in the "big hoose." Would he make more than that back having also cut the legs from under the Lance fanbois who are also in denial? I think he is going to become a marginal figure as time goes on and road cycling sorts itself out. A Symbol of the bad old days if you like.

I would have thought a "Lance, I confess" book with all the gory details would make a lot of dosh.

Complete with a section on how to continue a top level training schedule while in a fed max....

Remember kids, cheaters never prosper.

If only that were true.

[img] [/img]
Lance's house

To be honest at this point does anyone care

Instead we should be worrying about Paul Kimmage's attack on Wiggo. He's gone too far for most people but some poop will always stick when thrown.

If only that were true.

Lance's house

He is separated from his wife and kids, he has alienated every friend in his life, he's facing prison, everything he ever archived in his life is a lie, etc.

Can't say I'd swap that for a big house.

He is separated from his wife and kids, he has alienated every friend in his life, he's facing prison, everything he ever archived in his life is a lie, etc.

Can't say I'd swap that for a big house.

What about if it had a pool?

On to Kimmage,he is less a crusader and more a freeloader IMO. I think he is needing something new to keep himself in the public eye,hence his increasingly frequent attacks on Sky.

Lets be honest its going to be quite funny when Sir Wiggo gets stripped of the nighthood.

I dont understand OP have you read the piece? Its written in the sameway as Heat and Now gossip magazines.

Spun conjecture.

Tbh we all know that he did it howevwr that article is misleading.

I have to say I agree with duckman, the kimmage article was "unconvincing",

Any links to kimmage article

Kimmage....tbh Im unconvinced about the track performances being totally clean.

Lance is worth 100s of $m, paying out a few 10s $m won't hurt him at all, plus he has a $500m pension fund (Armstrong Foundation).

Lance who?.......

😉

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/kimmage-unconvinced-by-sky-and-wiggins

I went on a charity ride which kimmage was on once, well I say he was on it, he wouldn't get out of the support range rover and his bike was transferred in one of the lorries.

I'd be gutted if Wiggins was Dirty. I really don't think he is TBH. If you looked at the tour it was controlled, and at the time there were complaints about the lack of attacking, or panache. It was a controll your losses in the mountains, hammer them in the TT's.

Further to. That Froome was off form in the vultea, clearly fatigued, not something the usage of PED's would really allow? It's how it will pan out when 'Berty returns will be interesting.

Actually the story looks legit, and the NYT is pretty reputable.

Don't get me started on that headline and the torturous way most of the piece is written though!

That house looks ugly. Also he doesn't need a pool as there is a local water hole to swim in........actually that's been destroyed by him as well (see lance's dispute with neighbours http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Neighbors-say-Armstrong-ruined-swimming-hole-1889551.php)

Hmm NYT isn't really a glossy mag Hora-it is still conjecture at this point though I agree. Frank Schleck's TdF positive is due to be ruled on soon his dad and uncle are on the panel that decides his fate 😯 quite why it's taken this long is ridiculous, they're obviously just going to give him a backdated 6 month ban and let him carry on.

I think rather than Froome being off form at the Vuelta I think it may have been a case of Contador and Valverde being so well "prepared".

Lets be honest its going to be quite funny when Sir Wiggo gets stripped of the nighthood.

Yes, really top level humour 🙄

I read Paul Kimmage's Rough Ride, and started off with the impression that he was quite a bitter, negative person, then I warmed to him as I got further through the book, but unfortunately he really disappointed me at the end in his chapter where he took the pee and made disparaging comments about normal cyclists attempting the Marmotte. So these days I am not inclined to take any notice of his sniping at Team Sky.

On to Kimmage,he is less a crusader and more a freeloader IMO. I think he is needing something new to keep himself in the public eye,hence his increasingly frequent attacks on Sky.

+1
The guy's an arse. Problem now is he's been proven right so he's now throwing more shit round the place, either to be controversial and keep his name in the papers or on the premise that if you throw enough shit, some of it will stick.

He will come clean, tell all...be forgiven.

Ditto negative stuff on Kimmage. He was right but needs to quit whilst ahead maybe?

I read The Secret race over the hols and found it fascinating. I had disliked Lance ever since reading 'Its Not About The Bike' (sub text - 'its all about ME'!) and so Hamilton's descriptions of LA tallied with my prejudices; i.e. LA was a bully and an egotist. And a big bully.

But regarding the OP it does rather suggest that most riders were not cleann and the Schleck / Contador and other more recent cases suggest that we should still all be v sceptical of riders claiming to be clean. Brits can cheat as well as anyone else surely? WE may all want Brad and CCav to be clean but we cannot prove that hey are clean - only someone else ca prove perhaps that they are not. Its unfairly cynical but no other way i can see. Doper's cant own up to it.

I liked Lance at first, then bit by bit I lost faith - too many amazing performances which then turned out to be against the likes of a doped Ulrich, inconclusive failed drugs tests, testamony by ex-team members, a prolonged relationship with dodgy doctors etc. So in the end I concluded there must be something dodgy going on (this was at least 4 years ago - how come the UCI were so slow on the case?). At the moment Wiggins has not done anything to arouse my suspicions. He won the tour putting out beleivable performances in terms of physiology in a year when most beleive it has got cleaner. The downer was the Sky team's relationship with a dodgy doctor and some team member have owned up to having doped in the past. In this case Sky responded by clearing these people out. If all teams did this the sport would be a very different place with no Contador, Riis, Schlecks etc.

So for now I am enjoying the fact that Wiggins has won.

Either Sky's whole mantra, the marginal gains, the power meters, the training methods, the riding style... everything they do, is one big con for the benefit of giving them plausible deniability for a doping program, or they are clean.

It's a bit like going to the moon, it's probably easier to just go that fake it and keep the secret for ever. Even Lance's "most sophisticated doping program in sport" was found out fairly easily.

With Lance right back as far as 1999 there were bits of evidence that they were on drugs,combine that with their VAM and power to weight ratios and it is obvious they were doping. With Wiggins there is none of this, nothing. So while we can't be 100% sure I think we can have enough confidence in Wiggo's performances to enjoy it and believe he is clean.

So while we can't be 100% sure I think we can have enough confidence in Wiggo's performances to enjoy it and believe he is clean.

I'm surprised he hasn't already. Yes, there are plenty of people out there who want to right and royally shaft him and they will be on the case the minute he confesses. But for someone who is quoted to have £127 million, plus whatever he has tied up elsewhere, you'd think a clean conscience and a fresh start would motivate more than losing a few million and perhaps shaming the few deluded believers that remain.

Then again, it ties in with the character he's alleged to be. It would just be nice to believe he's human.

Was he not just the best of a bunch who were all on drugs.?

neilsonwheels - Member
Was he not just the best of a bunch who were all on drugs.?

/facepalm

Even if everyone was doing drugs, it still doesn't make it a level playing field because individuals respond differently to drugs, or so I understand from what I've read.

vickypea - people also respond differently to different training stimulus.

I say that Lance is the valid champion of that era and here's hoping the confession allows him to compete again!

neilsonwheels - Member
Was he not just the best of a bunch who were all on drugs.?

Essentially yes.

He was not the only cyclist working with Dr Ferrari.

Ferrari was team Dr with the Gewiss team when they swept all before them in 1994....Ferrari then set up private practice in 1995 and worked with many other cyclists.

The 'most sophisticated doping program in sport' should be taken with a pinch of salt....it may be the biggest thing USADA uncovered but this kind of thing was going on in Europe already.
The Festina affair in 1998 when 250 bottles of EPO were found in a team car (with steroids too)....the same year the TVM team got busted with 100+ ampoules of the stuff....the team director of Festina admits systematic doping in the team....the Festina team Dr admits there was a special doping fund within the team used to procure doping products, at the time of their bust it had 60,000 euros in it....

Read 'The Death of Marco Pantani', the author uncovers evidence and records from various sports/health institutions that worked with Pantani (and others) which essentially points to state sponsored doping in the 90s around Italian cycling.

This was all going on before Lance won his first TdF, yes he doped....he was continuing a rich tradition among cycling's elite.
Whether he was using steroids, EPO or transfusions is largely irrelevant, he wasnt the first and he didnt have some magic formula that nobody else had....he came to europe, saw what was going on (massive drug use for those who still believe doping starts and ends with LA) and played the game better than the others.

Please tell me we're not going to go through the whole LA thing all over AGAIN...

The thing is Lance is "hinting" at wanting to confess but ONLY if he can come back and race again he wants to do a "DEAL". How that can ever be possible in my opinion is beyond me? They previously made it clear when he swore under oath he wasn't on drugs that he was under oath and did he fully understand what is meant. Lance isn't worrid about money he has ample it'e the prison sentence for perjury and the fact he wants to come back and compete in other sports. There should be no deal, treat him with the contempt he deserves. And as Crazy-legs says there was me hoping this was all over and I could say "LAnce Who?" but hey ho reality dictates it'll never be over.

As for Wiggo I believe he's clean the ascent times of the mountains they climbed this years TdF versus 90's and 00's have increased by 20 minutes!! that's down to pure training and not drugs IMO.

Can't imagine Lance will confess, his whole character is built around being a defiant winner, it would be weird to see him own up.

Hadn't seen the Kimmage story - good to see he continues his love affair with cycling.

So, with respect to him wanting to come back and race...

What's the difference between him admitting doping, serving a ban, and coming back to race, and David Millar admitting doping, serving a ban, and coming back to race?

I'm no fan of the man, but do the crime, do the time, clean slate should apply to all.

those who still believe doping starts and ends with LA

Who thinks that?

What's the difference between him admitting doping, serving a ban, and coming back to race, and David Millar admitting doping, serving a ban, and coming back to race?

Perjury I think.

What's the difference between him admitting doping, serving a ban, and coming back to race, and David Millar admitting doping, serving a ban, and coming back to race?

Miller used EPO on a few occasions, he certainly didn't rely on it 100%. Nor did he bully others into drug use or win the worlds biggest bike race 7 times.
When caught, he admitted his crime, served his ban and came back a reformed rider. Personally I think it was actually one of the best things that happened to him. He's a top bloke and now a very outspoken critic not just of doping but the whole culture surrounding it.

LA relied on bullying and intimidation to run one of the most sophisticated sports doping programmes ever seen in cycling, made tens of millions of dollars from it and still denies any wrongdoing.

Not really any comparison.
This isn't just one rider, it's the WHOLE culture of cycling from grass roots right up to the UCI. Even the journalists are in on it. You don't rock the boat cos if you do then all your interviews with the star riders disappear. It's way bigger than one athlete (even if that athlete is the biggest cycing superstar of the modern era).

I agree though that the way it's handled rider to rider varies wildly and that shouldn't be the case. I don't necessarily think LA should be stripped of his wins cos lets face it, you could strip virtually every other winner of their title. No consistency. 🙁

Back to the topic of the thread though, I can't see him confessing. He's not really got any need to unless he can secure some sort of million dollar live TV tell-all and somehow escape going down for perjury at the same time.

He's not really got any need to

I can't believe he still thinks an admission isn't necessary at some point. The only question is when re law suits etc. Trying to gain something in exchange for admission is to be expected from LA and tbf I can't blame him for that. Have a bet with a mate on him confessing in next 6 months so come on Lance!

bensales - Member
So, with respect to him wanting to come back and race...

What's the difference between him admitting doping, serving a ban, and coming back to race, and David Millar admitting doping, serving a ban, and coming back to race?

I'm no fan of the man, but do the crime, do the time, clean slate should apply to all.

Circumstances;Millar admitted what he had done, Armstrong sent attack dog lawyers onto anybody who took his name in vain and perjured himself.He also threatened the career of anybody who messed with him. I hope his bum heals over.

Lance will confess if and when he thinks there's something in it for him. Those lawsuits mentioned by the OP he'll lose whether or not he confesses - the only question is whether he's realised that yet.

as Aracer said! this is an intelligent thug of a man who will only do it if he get something out of it. Disappointing but very true.

Ermm.. Isn't Juan pelota Lance's twitter name?

Lance has an STW login?

Lets be honest its going to be quite funny when Sir Wiggo gets stripped of the nighthood.

Leaving aside your dreadful spelling and punctuation, I'd love to be there and hear you say that to his face. Of course you'd never dare, but it would be funny.

Beaten to it...juan pelota is Lance's alias and nickname for himself.

People need to consider that Sir Wiggo dominated what is still a drug riddled peleton. Don't take my word for it ask Judge Perdua.

Totally agree with crazy-legs about David Millar.

Juanpelota- my comment was that everyone doing performance- enhancing drugs does not make a level playing field. Of course individuals respond different to training; there's a lot of evidence for that. But taking drugs that can seriously damage your health (and potentially encouraging orhers to do so) whilst at the same time heading up a charity that is meant to promote health is totally hypocritical.

There are reasons I believe Wiggins is clean

First the back ground in British Cycling. its really clear from the Millar book that British Cycling just did things much better than the pro teams. In terms of training and nutrition.

Dave Brailsford is envolved in Sky and British Cycling

The real clincher is that Wiggins performances in this year Tour simply wouldn't have been good enough to podium in the bad years

Don't Sky run blood passports as well?

You can train better, harder, be more committed in order to ride faster. None of these would kill you in your sleep.

With drugs you can take more drugs and cycle faster but they may kill you in your sleep. It is no longer about who is fittest or even who responds best to the drugs, it's just about who is most willing to nearly kill themselves. So to say that Lance was the best in the even playing field of the drugs era is wrong. He is just the guy who took the most drugs.

Lance will confess if and when he thinks there's something in it for him.

This.

The bloke is a sociopath; I could use so many gutter words to describe him but just wish he'd **** off and suffer all he's brought on himself.

Lance desperately wants to compete.

That punishment is the one that really punishes him. Money he has plenty of. Shame, he won't be bothered by - he'll just say he did what they all did.

He doesn't want to go to jail for perjury though. That's what's preventing a confession at the moment.

Lets be honest its going to be quite funny when Sir Wiggo gets stripped of the nighthood.

It's been stripped earlier.

Clubber has a point.

Completing and winning is probably the only thing that stops him from seeing he's the mirror image of the the father he hates.

Which brings us back to the sociopath thing, the dude needs counseling.

In fact he should do a book called ' It's all about my father'.

of the letter K.

I thought i had reconciled myself to the fact that all my cycling hero's were dopers, but much as everyone has been applauding millar and a load of riders at the end of their careers for being so brave, it's been the words of riders like roche and vanendert that really highlighted how many shadows remain in the sport.

Much as I want to have faith in the new heroes, there are still [url= http://www.fillarifoorumi.fi/forum/showthread.php?38129-Ammattilaispy%F6r%E4ilij%F6iden-nousutietoja-%28aika-km-h-VAM-W-W-kg-etc-%29&p=1906952#post1906952 ]questions [/url] to ask. I think people like kimmage and whittle need to keep asking questions, as the problems are so ingrained in the sport, it may annoy some people, but no one in pro cycling should be allowed to sit easy.

A bloke I used to work with is utterly convinced Wiggins is doping. It's the only thing he comes on Facebook to post about.

As for Wiggo I believe he's clean the ascent times of the mountains they climbed this years TdF versus 90's and 00's have increased by 20 minutes!!

Could you provide a link please. The Peyresourde was climbed in about 26 minutes which equates to about 6W/kg for Wiggins if you do a bit of Googling. Kimmage is absolutely right to find the same riders on the front hammering out the rythme day after day suspicious. Voekler has been given a hard time by the French press for his improbable climb rates/ doping suspicions and he lost!

A Sky rider lapped everyone TWICE last night at the Revolution.

What has Kimmage done wrong, exactly? Is sky untouchable? They can just employ whatever dodgy doctor they feel like without being questioned? Or close up on promised transparency? Then ride up mountains at 25mph led by domestiques who then leave the team promptly when a new declaration become a condition of staying?

The burden of proof is on cycling.

The burden of proof is on cycling.

This

You cant have Cyclings track record and expect to be beyond suspicion, Tour Winners more than any other. Possibly not fair but tough.

Hora,
Peter kennaugh was part of the Olympic team pursuit team, it's not just any old sky rider. Plus like all cycling the race he was in is a race of wits and bluff not just speed..
Whether or not some of the team have / are doping I do not know, but that is not even worth raising an eyebrow over.

Also 6 w/kg has always been perceived by such outspoken anti dopers like Lemond to be the top limit of what is possible naturally. Armstrong and pantani were producing 6.7- 6.8 w/kg in their heyday.

Lets be honest its going to be quite funny when Sir Wiggo gets stripped of the nighthood.

Leaving aside your dreadful spelling and punctuation, I'd love to be there and hear you say that to his face. Of course you'd never dare, but it would be funny.

And who ever said it to Lance's face during his glory years?

I believe Wiggins has doped and it would be no great surprise to learn that he was doping through the tour. Is he still? I wouldn't bet against it, but the heat has perhaps been turned up enough to make riders reconsider.

I don't understand the belief that cycling has somehow now turned a corner...

I'd say a key difference is that new people coming through won't face the kind of pressures to dope that they used to - and some teams are have been doing their best to be clean for years for sure. Garmin and yes Sky.

Some of the abuse of Kimmage, including here, certainly shows that mud sticks, even after the chief mud thrower is busted. He's been right all along, and he's been the target of horrendous abuse from those whose cheating he fought.

Can't but help thinking that if LA is going to confess then he would try and gain something from it, Johan Bruyneel will be having his hearing with USADA at some point this year and if Lance gets called to give evidence under oath then he will have no choice but to confess, that or perjure himself and face jail time.

It makes sense that if that's going to happen then he'll try and pre-empt it and get a reduced ban into the bargain.

some teams are have been doing their best to be clean for years for sure. Garmin and yes Sky

Hiring one of the dodgiest doctors of the recent doping era doesn't really help me to trust Sky's words. Garmin are a different kettle of fish I think: Vaughters is very open on twitter and even the Clinic forum on CN

I believe Wiggins has doped and it would be no great surprise to learn that he was doping through the tour. Is he still? I wouldn't bet against it, but the heat has perhaps been turned up enough to make riders reconsider.

I don't understand the belief that cycling has somehow now turned a corner..

Could you make your mind up they either reconsider or they still cheat which is it?

Main problem i think we have is that some folk will think whoever wins is a cheat no matter who it is due to the murky history.

I see no reason to suggest Wiggo has cheated and i am sure Cadel is clean as well

What about cav do you think he cheats as well then as he is shattering sprint records

I do agree they have had some questionable appointments but they seem to have go tthe house in order again.

Do yu think Sir dave and Sir Brad would be cheating - with all the Olympic heritage and racing pedigree and what they have said?
We rule the cycling world at the minute lets enjoy it eh.

 

Apologies if this has been said already...

Even if Lance confesses then surely he will have to serve a 2 year ban? Or will it be back dated in some way?

Will he have to be treated like every other doper? Do his time then get to come back? Personally I find this distasteful given that he is not like every other doper but perhaps that's how it will have to be handled for fear of legal action.

You'd like to think that race organisers (triathlon and running I believe) would tell him to F off but doubtless some will want him there for publicity.

And what about USADA?

Does anyone believe cycling is clean at the top now???

so you have gone from he was clean to they are all cheats now , quite a swing 😕

He/they avoided it. I don't believe its prize/crave attention/results = purity now.

It was interesting that Dave B wouldn't have David Millar at Sky - despite being fond of him - but did employ others who've been associated with drugs. Anyway, seems they've regretted some choices hence the purge.

ormondroyd
Some of the abuse of Kimmage, including here, certainly shows that mud sticks, even after the chief mud thrower is busted. He's been right all along, and he's been the target of horrendous abuse from those whose cheating he fought

This.

Im not buying into the school of thought that says Kimmage is an attention whore. Granted its in his interest to remain in the public eye but he makes himself very unwelcome within the cycling world because he chooses to voice his beliefs that doping is still rife at the top.

There was no test to detect the usage of EPO for years......