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imnotverygood
Full Member
Or it’s so simple a question that by her asking it, Cleese felt insulted, so left. … & that’s why he’s complained.
So he didn't answer as it insulted his intelligent? Ok. There are a thousand ways a man as articulate as Cleese could have replied in the negative whilst still making it apparent he felt the question was inappropriate and I'll placed. Hell, he could still have made a complaint against the interview if he felt so inclined.
Dress it how you like, an obviously articulate man couldn't answer a question most Junior school kids would have no problem with understanding or answering. It's only a trap if you make it so yourself. He simply couldn't bring himself to answer.
To say the question was somehow below him and therefore not worthy of a reply is frankly ridiculous.
He then stayed in the interview for a while longer, got visibly angry and flounced. Hardly the act of a ferocious defender of free speech in the art of comedy.
‘woke culture’
It means judging people based on their membership of specific groups based on social, cultural, gender or ethnic identity.
Surely it’s not judging people simply based on the above?
What you’re describing is racism, sexism, nationalism etc, which are things I identify the anti-woke squad with.
To be fair it’s generally easier to identify the anti-woke than the woke as the anti-woke make so much noise about it.
I do love the idea that cancel culture is real because people don't want to watch Roy Chubby Brown during a pandemic and a vague annecdote about angry lefty students lobbing bricks at windows... It's a made up thing, if it were real then I wouldn't have witnessed Jordan Peterson on chuffing question time a couple of weeks ago (I cringed so much I thought I might actually implode)...
Anyway I'm not really up to speed on Cleese's ideas around cancel culture and woke-ism, I don't use Twitter. But I suppose if I want to learn about his ideas he has made a documentary I could watch, let him make his points the long form way, rather than watch him walk into "gotcha" questions from someone who's skimmed a bit of Twitter and then apparently given a false reason for wanting to do an interview.
As for the idea behind that searingly incisive "Racism dressed up as banter" question and the idea that it was a straightforward one to answer, well I think it's indicative of a very reductive understanding of comedy and how comedy uses offence (Cleese is still a comedian).
Comedians frequently use offence as a tool and say the "unsayable" either to illustrate the absurdity of an idea or social construct, or as an illustration of the opposing viewpoint to that which they are presenting, context is everything.
So is "racism as banter", used in comedy acceptable? Dunno, give me the context and let me try to judge the intent. She was just trying trick get an older, possibly jet-lagged man into suggesting Racism is acceptable...
If you want to talk about offence (racist or otherwise) in comedy, and what function it serves you could do worse than listen to Frankie Boyle's thoughts:
I don't agree with everything he says necessarily, and it's a bit old (2014), but I reckon he thinks more about the (often offensive) comedy he produces than many might believe and certainly considers context as part of the analysis...
Or you could just find some Roy Chubby Brown to stream.
I agree with a great deal of what you say cookeaa for what it's worth.
The cancel culture stuff is a bit of an irrelevance really in the context of this thread and in reality too.
It's more like this sort of stuff that made me more interested on how he handled that particular question. Like you say, context is very relevant.
I haven't watched that vid you posted yet but I will.👍
I do love the idea that cancel culture is real because people don’t want to watch Roy Chubby Brown during a pandemic and a vague annecdote about angry lefty students lobbing bricks at windows… It’s a made up thing, if it were real then I wouldn’t have witnessed Jordan Peterson on chuffing question time a couple of weeks ago (I cringed so much I thought I might actually implode)…
Eh? Who said RCB was cancelled due to the pandemic? Don't just make stuff up 😂
And what's Jordan Peterson got to do with anything? If you want to talk about JP in the context of this thread then that carcrash interview with C4's Kathy Newman would probably work better.
Cancel culture is relevant it's part of what she was going after him on.
Actually I picked the wrong example, if "cancel culture" is a real thing someone please explain why Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson is currently our PM with his various historical comments and articles about "letterboxes", "Watermelon smiles" and "piccaninnies"?
My point was that JP on British TV at all is evidence that cancel culture doesn't exist.
And RCB having some booking called off was given as evidence for "cancelling" being a thing...
Perhaps we are off topic, was Cleese cutting that interview short controversial? I still don't think it actually was.
The BBC needs to train her again."
This comment reeks of posh white male entitlement. 'the woman needs to know her place'.
This comment reeks of posh white male entitlement. ‘the woman needs to know her place’.
Maybe, but it's down to the reader to infer that (context again). Cleese might be getting on but he's sharp enough to know how to phrase a put down so that it's "technically" about her professionalism and not her gender...
Well if anyone needs conclusive proof, “I seem to recall” must surely provide it.
If you are actually interested, there's this thing called the internet. A lot of news is in there. You could try searching. That requires far more effort than posting snark, so may be beyond you.
That’s exactly the kind of intolerance I would expect from a tightyrighty.
Wouldn't know. I've only ever seen it from what I would generally think is left of centre, given the broadly socialist vs individual nature of cancel culture.
Still cancelled though.
My point was that JP on British TV at all is evidence that cancel culture doesn’t exist.
I'm pretty sure there was a movement at the University he taught at that tried to get him removed, which to them was cancelling him, over the pronoun argument that launched him as a thing.
I don’t like him, but I might forgive him because this clearly was not the interview he expected.
And the mighty defender of free speech couldn't handle it so has thrown a massive hissy fit and called the journalist's professionalism into question, patronised the shit out of her, and tried to get her cancelled (or at the very least damage her career). Cool.
Proper grumpy old bugger who failed to answer the questions just did some waffling.
I do love the idea that cancel culture is real because people don’t want to watch Roy Chubby Brown during a pandemic
The council owned venue cancelled the gig and issued a statement that RCB didn't reflect their values hence the gig was "cancelled"
I wouldn't go and watch a RCB gig but I also don't have a problem with venues hosting him. Some people do have a problem with it, they are the ones writing to councillors pushing for him to be excluded. Net effect is another pyrrhic victory for one side of the argument.
There are other comics that get the same treatment, people go and see them at free gigs and then write to the venue about how awful it was and how they shouldn't host them, mention safe spaces etc etc
Comedy treads a fine line which sometimes is crossed, but then people generally stop going if the transgression is too far. If a comic isn't funny the audience disappears fairly quickly. Venues cancelling gigs which are popular due to complaint's or "values" is another thing. If you think a RCB gig represents a venues values I would suggest you are a bit blinkered.
Ok so I just watched the interview properly. He is vile, frankly, and I'm amazed to see people defending him over it. He talks over her, tells her the question is poor and 'scattered' when it is nothing of the kind.
He essentially advocates people being toughened up by bullying then tries to bully her. Hideous. How ironic that he complains about people not listening but is completely uninterested in hearing opinions that don't align with his own.
If there's one thing we learn from the interview it's that his comedy show will be shite.
Cancel him. 😛
Basically it seems like Cleese wants to use his fame and platform to broadcast his opinions, but doesn't want to defend them, or for the same things to be used to challenge them. Turnabout's always fair play.
jambourgie
Free MemberA comedian called Roy Chubby Brown had his Sheffield show cancelled recently by the venue’s management.
Everyone has the right to an opinion, a voice. You don't have the right to use someone else's stage to shout it. What you're talking about here isn't "cancel culture", it's "actions having consequences" and "other people also having opinions"
Everyone has the right to an opinion, a voice. You don’t have the right to use someone else’s stage to shout it. What you’re talking about here isn’t “cancel culture”, it’s “actions having consequences” and “other people also having opinions”
So people writing to venue owners/management asking them to cancel prebooked gigs isn't cancelling someone?
You might not agree with some of what he's on about, you might think he's obnoxious, you might not find him funny, just don't go and see him you don't need to target a venue to stop those that do from enjoying a gig
I’m pretty sure there was a movement at the University he taught at that tried to get him removed, which to them was cancelling him, over the pronoun argument that launched him as a thing.
And thus JP faded into obscurity? Or found himself with a new career as an alt-right meeja "thinker"? His platform and income have grown as a result of this "cancelling" he got.
RCB's booking was completely unknown to me before this thread, but it sounds like a "cancelled booking" not a "cancelled career", he'll still be shifting DVDs and tickets for other venues, a quick Googling tells me can still go and see him this Sunday in Manchester, I'm sure that one lost booking will be converted into publicity and sales.
So who else has been "cancelled"?
I wonder how many stay out of these discussions not because they don't want to enage or share their voice, but because of anxiety of the consequences for not having the right opinion.
I do like the idea from Ricky Gervais in wanting to live long enough to see this generation of Cancellers themselves get Cancelled by the next.
This article is quite clear on RCB being cancelled. His following mustn’t be great as in 2 years he sold less than half the tickets. He’s had his day, he use to sell out to far bigger venues, his videos sold in their thousands but times have moved on. I mean less face it Arthur Askey once thought to be absolutely hilarious.
If you are actually interested, there’s this thing called the internet. A lot of news is in there. You could try searching
Yes, someone asserting that something may have happened somewhere at some point is an excellent basis for searching. Generally, it's up to those making a claim to support it.
Still cancelled though.
Tightyrighty: QED.
I wonder how many stay out of these discussions not because they don’t want to enage or share their voice, but because of anxiety of the consequences for not having the right opinion.
Meh, There are no "right opinions" you either have the courage of your convictions, or you just don't like having them challenged, either of which is fine. People are as free to participate in discussions as not.
FWIW I doubt I will agree with all of Cleese's ideas about "cancel culture" (but I'll wait until his doc is out to decide). People don't get "cancelled" they get challenged for the things they have said, but their right to say them isn't taken away, and as I said some do find a secondary audience...
If the bookings dry up for someone with controversial things to say, that's normally because public mood or tastes have changed. That is the nature of our culture, constant flux, today you're "Edgey" tomorrow you're a bigotted old dinosaur, learn to accept that and the money you've put in the bank, or use your freedom of speech to complain about how your freedom speech (or ability to derive money from speech) has been curtailed because you're struggling to sell an unpopular message...
Its ironic that it tends to be people on the right that scream about "cancel culture"
I mean what did Friedrich Hayek teach you about "markets"?
So in the market place of ideas your opinions are no longer selling. Suck it up buttercup, get new material. But then writing stuff is hard, instead you could claim you've been cancelled.
The fates of two Pythons, Cleese and Palin, are interesting to compare. Both Oxbridge educated toffs with all the rights connections.
Palin is generally on the side of right and good and gets tagged "woke" as an insult by the Telegraph. Cleese is an obnoxious right-wing dick and gets to slag off the Beeb very vocally while caliming to be cancelled.
Don't forget your press is controlled by extreme right foreigners with an agenda that isn't in the interest of the British public.
Edit for stealth edit. 😉
Both Oxford educated
Nope.Cleese was Cambridge
That explains it. Oxfords not rogues.
I'm not sure what their shoes have to do with anything.
This article is quite clear on RCB being cancelled. His following mustn’t be great as in 2 years he sold less than half the tickets. He’s had his day, he use to sell out to far bigger venues, his videos sold in their thousands but times have moved on. I mean less face it Arthur Askey once thought to be absolutely hilarious.
Yes, that just about sums it up. But I wasn't going to link to that toerag of a "news" site The Star myself 😉
As a Sheffield resident, I don't give a toss about Roy Chubby Brown. What gets my back up is pompous self-righteous councillors deciding what's good for us. It's a thin edge of a wedge thing too. The last paragraph of that article is slightly ominous: "SCT has assured the council there are now processes in place to ensure that each act is reviewed before bookings are taken.". So who gets to wield this power? What if the council drone appointed to do it just works off a list of buzzwords and then bans Stewart/Stu Lee cos they're too stupid to understand his comedy.
Let's just pay Michael McIntyre to do every comedy gig ever. That'll sort it. Oh wait, he's white, and a dude so that's not going to last long. Thank god.
Anyway, banning stuff never works, it just glorifies it. Look at recreational drugs, acid house, video nasties. Loads of cool stuff... Banning crap stuff gives it free, unearned publicity. Right, I'm off to check out this controversial comedian who's getting banned up and down the country!*
*joke. Please don't cancel me.
I probably sit towards the “Woke” end of the scale (although I’m not sure I fully understand the term)
Oh, this is easy. It means being nice to others, particularly but not exclusively to people who are underprivileged or otherwise a bit different.
Some people see this as problem. Which, well, do I need to add anything further?
there’s this thing called the internet. A lot of news is in there. You could try searching
There's this thing called "burden of proof" also.
The council owned venue cancelled the gig and issued a statement that RCB didn’t reflect their values hence the gig was “cancelled”
I find it a bit weird that they'd veto the gig after booking him in the first place. Like, he's hardly a new kid on the block. Surely anyone whose actual job is to book acts would've known, or at least checked if they didn't, what his material entailed?
You might not agree with some of what he’s on about, you might think he’s obnoxious, you might not find him funny, just don’t go and see him
Coming up next at the Sheffield Palladium: the comedy stylings of Abu Hamza. Don't agree with him, don't go.
I don't like censorship and I don't really agree with the cancelling of the Fat Bastard's show. But it is what it is, if your act was last relevant 20 years ago then perhaps it's time to update your act or just take the money and run. I don't think Ben Elton has done much material about Thatcher lately.
piemonster
I do like the idea from Ricky Gervais in wanting to live long enough to see this generation of Cancellers themselves get Cancelled by the next.
I hold no inner fear of society changing over the years and challenging my preconceptions. My 24 year old son already does that.
It's changed a lot in my 53 years already, I just adapt and evolve with it as I am part of society. Its been happening for thousands of years. This is not some new phenomenon.
Those stuck in the past are generally the ones screaming into the void. I give you John Cleese.
As a fellow 53 year old - well said Poop!
Maybe I will feel differently at 82, but I hope not.
pompous self-righteous councillors deciding what’s good for us.
Do they not get to have an opinion that RCB is a shit racist comedian and that they don't want him playing their venues? How come that opinion isn't protected under freedom of speech libertarians claim to value?
Anyway, Roy Chubby Brown isn't banned is he. Not wanting someone to play at your venue isn't banning them, any more than a band is being 'banned' for being rubbish and unpopular so not getting any gigs.
So who else has been “cancelled”?
There's a weird phenomenon going on here, isn't there. It's a very right-wing argument to go THIS IS A MASSIVE PROBLEM because you'd heard that something might have allegedly happened to one person once, so proof positive. Have Muslims banned Christmas again yet this year or are we a bit early?
I wonder how many stay out of these discussions not because they don’t want to enage or share their voice, but because of anxiety of the consequences for not having the right opinion.
This too I find weird. Like, do people hold opinions which they know aren't right, but still hold them anyway? "I'm not racist, I just don't like ****stanis, that's my opinion but I'm scared to discuss it because triggered snowflakes might challenge me"?
I hold no inner fear of society changing over the years and challenging my preconceptions. My 24 year old son already does that.
It’s changed a lot in my 53 years already, I just adapt and evolve with it as I am part of society. Its been happening for thousands of years.
See, what I find interesting is that 'society' is represented by the opinions of a 24 year old. Just because you are 53, do your opinions not matter any more, especially if there are more 53 year-olds than 24 year olds? There is, as you say, always going to be a generational divide in attitudes and ideas. The internet effectively forces the generations into much closer proximity than ever happened before. I put it to you that this sort of thing leads to 'culture wars'.
Hah. Right there in Drac's link.
The City Hall expected to sell around 800 tickets but only 367 tickets had been sold – they were refunded.
There was a campaign to reinstate the show with a small protest outside the City Hall but an online petition has collected 42,000 signatures.
So (at least) 41,633 people who hadn't bought a ticket anyway complained about it.
Snowflakes.
What gets my back up is pompous self-righteous councillors deciding what’s good for us.
I was under the impression SCT is a charity who don’t want to be associated with someone who still thinks it’s Ok to make racist jokes? I’m mean if that’s not the case and it’s the council I still see no issue with them not wanting him.
I’ll admit I use to find him funny, I was never keen on his racist material though, but over the years I’ve learnt that he’s just a misogynistic, vial and racist. As it would seem many have if he sold less 400 tickets for a venue in 2 years.
So people writing to venue owners/management asking them to cancel prebooked gigs isn’t cancelling someone?
So these people shouldn't be allowed to express their opinions. Sounds very cancel-y
what I find interesting is that ‘society’ is represented by the opinions of a 24 year old. Just because you are 53, do your opinions not matter any more
The point here is that your 20-year old likely has thirty more years left on this planet than your 50-year old. Do your opinions matter, of course they do and again it's right-wing "Bloody Millennials" bedwetting to suggest otherwise. Do they matter more than the 20-year old, hell no. They'll still be dealing with our shit long after we're six feet under.
Anyway, Roy Chubby Brown isn’t banned is he. Not wanting someone to play at your venue isn’t banning them, any more than a band is being ‘banned’ for being rubbish and unpopular so not getting any gigs.
RCB wasn't cancelled due to poor ticket sales, he was cancelled due to a small number of complaints to the council. So your analogy is frankly disingenuous.
Coming up next at the Sheffield Palladium: the comedy stylings of Abu Hamza. Don’t agree with him, don’t go.
Is he funny?
I was under the impression SCT is a charity who don’t want to be associated with someone who still thinks it’s Ok to make racist jokes? I’m mean if that’s not the case and it’s the council I still see no issue with them not wanting him.
A really effective way of not being associated with a racist comedian is to not book them in the first place. Doing so in the first place for the ££££, then cancelling it when you realise you might get some splashback. Then saying the act doesn't fit our/YOUR values makes you look like a tit.
imnotverygood
See, what I find interesting is that ‘society’ is represented by the opinions of a 24 year old.
Hes is just one small part of society, not it's entirety. Just one element amongst millions but I didn't feel the need to list them to be honest. We are exposed to them every day. On stw for a start.
Just because you are 53, do your opinions not matter any more, especially if there are more 53 year-olds than 24 year olds?
Do my opinions matter? Yes, to me, but not necessarily to others. I don't mind that, it doesn't anger or worry me. "There are more of my age group in society than his", so that means my opinions are some how more valid because by an act of fate I was born earlier? Nah, I just find that odd.
You seem to be finding an existential crisis in society that I just don't see or get angered by.
I thought John Cleese was dead. Thanks STW for correcting me.
They’ll still be dealing with our shit long after we’re six feet under.
& in 30 years time another generation of 20 year olds will be dealing with the previous generation's shit. So are you implying that one generation matters more than another. What goes around comes around.
I’ve learnt that he’s just a misogynistic, vial and racist.
Assuming of course there is ampoule evidence?
Coming up next at the Sheffield Palladium: the comedy stylings of Abu Hamza. Don’t agree with him, don’t go.
Old Abu's not been cancelled! He's had a small cameo on Mid Morning Matters with Alan Partridge.
"Death to The West!"
Assuming of course there is ampoule evidence?
Badumtish
RCB wasn’t cancelled due to poor ticket sales, he was cancelled due to a small number of complaints to the council
Easier to take a 'moral' stand when it happens to make financial sense too though isn't it. If he'd been selling out packed shows night after night I think there may have been a different judgement.
You seem to be finding an existential crisis in society that I just don’t see or get angered by.
I'm really not angered by it at all, I think it is inevitable that times change & a younger geneartion will have different views to their parents/grandparents. ('Hope I die before I get old' sings the now 77 year old Roger Daltry). The argument about 'cancel culture'(if it exists) is that the opinions of each different generation are far more accessible to each other, and therefore to what extent those differences should be allowed to be aired/tolerated.
Wasn't me who started the thread
Then saying the act doesn’t fit our/YOUR values makes you look like a tit.
It doesn’t it shows you’ve reviewed your first decision, likely made by one individual, then realised it was a mistake. Poor ticket sales would no doubt helped with their decision, the complaints too and then input from others at SCT and the council. They came to the conclusion he’s a racist and not wanted at the theatre.
RCB wasn’t cancelled due to poor ticket sales, he was cancelled due to a small number of complaints to the council.
Pretty sure this stuff has gone on forever and is nothing new. The difference is that at one time you might have been 'cancelled' for being black or gay, whereas now your more likely to be 'cancelled' for directing hate towards those who are black or gay.
There are some interesting discussions that can be had around the topic but I'm not convinced RCB is one of them.
Yeah, I started the thread. Sometimes its good to have your opinions challenged. Sometimes on stw, sometimes out there in the badlands of Kent.
My opinions have been challenged on here, it might even make me reevaluate a few things, who knows? My brain is more RAM than ROM.
Cheese is most definitely ZX81 with the wobbly RAM pack.
It doesn’t it shows you’ve reviewed your first decision, likely made by one individual, then realised it was a mistake. Poor ticket sales would no doubt helped with their decision, the complaints too and then input from others at SCT and the council. They came to the conclusion he’s a racist and not wanted at the theatre.
Fair enough. I see what you're saying. I just don't like having decisions made on my behalf. I'd feel exactly the same if a Snoop Dogg show got cancelled because he called a lady a 'ho' on Doggystyle 30 years ago. Which as it happens is one of my favourite albums. Does that mean I'm ant-women? No. It means I like the dank gangsta vibez 😉
You said you used to enjoy some of RCB's act, well one of my old friends was a huge fan. He (my mate) wasn't/isn't racist, sexist, or any kind of ...ist. He just loved the act. I think it's a thrill about how OUTRAGEOUS he's going to be. Probably the same a lot of extreme acts, like Death Metal for example.
Fair enough. I see what you’re saying. I just don’t like having decisions made on my behalf.
They didn’t cancel on your behalf, they cancelled as they felt it went against the charities ethics.
He just loved the act. I think it’s a thrill about how OUTRAGEOUS he’s going to be.
Yes that was the act but it’s dated and some of it was always wrong. I still might make the odd quote from him but the’s time is over.
Assuming of course there is ampoule evidence?
Nicely done. I was going to make a similar, but not as good, joke. But I bottled it.
^^ Well done both of you.👍
As a Sheffield resident, I don’t give a toss about Roy Chubby Brown. What gets my back up is pompous self-righteous councillors deciding what’s good for us
I haven't checked the specifics of this case, but councils have public duties and I suspect there would be some concern about one of their venues being used to advance overtly discriminatory views.
pompous self-righteous councillors deciding what’s good for us.
But isn't that the point of councillors?
If you want bin collections, Social services, roads fixing, or indeed a particular policy on racist comics playing at publicly owned venues? Speak to your local councillor.
Don't agree with the priorities they've set? Vote for a different one when they're up for re-election, in theory they're there to enact the will of the majority in the city.
Perhaps they're wrong and Sheffield should host more bigots not less. You could always stand yourself if you believe this is a genuinely important issue for the city...
So I just watched that. The interview was a bit strange - but I'm assuming it was on something like BBC World which always does have a kind of weird "taking life seriously 24/7 attitude". However his words and actions didn't match up: everyone is too polarised because they only get one side in the media they watch but then not presenting "the other side", protect but don't over protect but then not being willing to discuss where that boundary is and then "England was always very good at compromise, not any more" and then he pulls off the headphones and walks off... he's actually the epitome of the problem he was describing!
I suspect how you view his performance though depends on which side of the polarised debate you are on. If you think the world is too woke and cancel culture is ridiculous you probably believe he "showed them" and if you think when you resort to calling stuff woke you've really not got a logic argument why its bad he's just proven the point!
When you do public interviews you’re givn a brief to work towards, its generally accpeted as unprofessional if you deviate from that with a view to catchnig people out. I think he did fine and he has a lot of valid points.
As far as I'm concerned if you go on a TV channel I am funding through my license fee to promote your commercial offering then anything is fair game. If you want my interest you'll need to have something interesting to say - and unless you happen to be in Asia him appearing in a show there is not enough. So why he chose Asia could be interesting, how the pandemic was affecting his show content could be interesting, but he didn't seem to want to talk about those things either. And if you want to use the "its comedy" loophole to being offensive you should damn well be willing to sit there and explain yourself - otherwise I'm not sure it is comedy. I'd have no doubt the Billy Connely or Frankie Boyle could happily hold a conversation about when comedy becomes offensive and offence is funny.
Perhaps they’re wrong and Sheffield should host more bigots not less. You could always stand yourself if you believe this is a genuinely important issue for the city…
🙂 Well I'm not that bothered about it...
I only brought it up because another poster had declared that cancelling doesn't happen. Yet I could recount one example that happened recently near me. Just playing devil's avocado. Back to John Cleese.
Is he funny?
Well, he's locked up for life. That at least amuses me.
So are you implying that one generation matters more than another.
No, I'm not implying anything. I'm asserting it.
My kids, were I to have any, would matter more than me. And their kids, more than them. They're here for longer than I will be, so what they need is more important.
A meringue?
No, I’m not implying anything. I’m asserting it.
Well, that couldn’t be more clear. I completely disagree. I think people’s views should be treated equally regardless of how much longer they have to live. This was the case when I was 20 & will still be the case when &if I get to 80. I don’t see why age should trump all. It isn’t really surprising there are culture wars if some people are considered to be more important than others.
Well, good. That's opinions for you. I'm glad at least that mine is unambiguous for once.
Personally I'd rather not **** up the next generation's lives, but here we are. Brexit's going well, isn't it. If you'd sacrifice your kids in favour of your own betterment then, eh, I've got nothing else.
If you’d sacrifice your kids in favour of your own betterment then, eh, I’ve got nothing else.
With respect, that isn't quite what we are disscussing here (or at least I'm not). We are talking about the extent to which one generation's views, beliefs and opinions should be allowed to dictate to another, different, generation. It's the degree to which the 'right' way to think is entirely based on a particular population sub-group's attitudes. I confidently predict that in 30 years time there are a whole load of people who are going to be shocked discover how wrong they were & how everything is apparently all their fault.
Generally, it’s up to those making a claim to support it
Tightyrighty: QED.
Oh, the ironing.
I guess I gave you too much credit. The right don't cancel people. Typically that's the left. Therein lies the joke.
And thus JP faded into obscurity? Or found himself with a new career as an alt-right meeja “thinker”? His platform and income have grown as a result of this “cancelling” he got.
Yeah, I wonder how they all feel now that it backfired on them in a spectacular fashion.
There’s this thing called “burden of proof” also.
Posted 4 hours ago
How would you like me to prove I recall something? fMRI?
he right don’t cancel people. Typically that’s the left. Therein lies the joke.
No one gets cancelled. The right made it up to save them writing new material. Therein lies no jokes
No one gets cancelled. The right made it up to save them writing new material. Therein lies no jokes
That is probably the most interesting question. What is cancellung and does it really exist. Certainly groups have managed to force cancelation of speeches and the like of people with whom they disagree. Largely those in the right have been the speakers but mostly that's because it's been in the US where the right have been emboldened. Public figures have lost jobs or gigs or, at the moment, careers over public outcry over past sins. So in that sense, it's real. Then again 80% of comments on twitter are generated by 2% of users or something insane like that. Mob rule trying to shut down ideas that they don't like isn't new, but they borrowed a label from New Jack City and it now has a name.
When those on the right try it, it usually fails spectacularly. I recall a bunch of antivaxxers tried to cancel an ice cream company over its support for vaccines. People bought more ice cream in support. I guess you have to read the room sbefore you try it.
cromolyolly
Public figures have lost jobs or gigs or, at the moment, careers over public outcry over past sins.
Indeed they have but pick a few from either side of the pond. Public figures losing their jobs is generally because, as a society, they are seen to have crossed a line. It's how societies all over the world self regulate if your like. Laws are created and hopefully applied to all. Hopefully.
In the last few years people have lost their jobs or even their liberty with sexual offences being a common theme amongst others of course.
That's not cancel culture. It's just not. That's decent societal culture asserting the laws that protect itself. By itself I mean it's people. You and I, our children and partners.
No cancel culture in that.
That is probably the most interesting question. What is cancellung and does it really exist.
Further to that, dors cancelling exist for one person and not a other depending on your point of view.
piemonster
Further to that, dors cancelling exist for one person and not a other depending on your point of view.
Could you clarify the question? I'm not being argumentative, I'm just not sure what you are getting at?
Could you clarify the question? I’m not being argumentative, I’m just not sure what you are getting at?
Actually perhaps not that easy to explain.
Person A) You’ve not been cancelled
Person B) I’ve been cancelled
Both outcomes from the same event and believed to be fact by both.
Person A) Views the outcome as Person B) being fully able to do whatever it was
Person B) Views the outcome through a traumatic perspective and no longer feels able to engage with whatever it was
Just pondering possible permutations, Person B could be an absolute roaster that fully deserved it.
^^ Thanks and I think that's the problem, "cancel culture" is so subjective, so emotive and sometimes so hard to even define that it's very existence it's hard to substantiate.
Even blogs or books will tend to have an agenda based on the author.
I personally feel that labelling such a potentially complex subject with an umbrella name helps neither side in the debate.
It's simply a rallying call, it brings people together... To argue over its very existence.
Cancel culture, it's very name attempts to over simply. If the last few years have taught us anything it's that get few things are truly binary.
Oh, the ironing.
I guess I gave you too much credit. The right don’t cancel people. Typically that’s the left. Therein lies the joke.
Quite so. I didn't need to prove my case because you did it for me. I had hoped that you would be better at this.
With respect, that isn’t quite what we are disscussing here (or at least I’m not). We are talking about the extent to which one generation’s views, beliefs and opinions should be allowed to dictate to another, different, generation.
Sure.
The question posed was whether our generation's 'opinion' was more important than the next's. And my answer to that is a solid "no." Would you disagree with that?
I confidently predict that in 30 years time there are a whole load of people who are going to be shocked discover how wrong they were & how everything is apparently all their fault.
Can you elaborate on this? Who do you expect to be wrong, us or them or both?
How would you like me to prove I recall something? fMRI?
Honestly, I couldn't give a rat's arse what you may or may not believe that you recall. What I care about is whether your assertions have any basis in fact or whether it's just inflammatory propaganda.
You said:
"I seem to recall several occasions when the looney lefty uni-brigade have used physical intimidation and violence to prevent speakers they disagree with from giving lectures. I seem to recall one occasion when they chucked bricks through the windows of the venue. The lecture was cancelled on safety grounds. That kind of cancel culture definitely exists."
Where? When? Who? Which venue? Which lecture? Who was supposed to be speaking? What do you seem to recall? Several occasions even, not just a single isolated incident of "looney left" physical violence but seemingly an almost commonplace occurrence. Is your recollection good enough to name one of them?
Sounds like Cancel Culture has been, err Cancelled?
big_n_daft
Free MemberSo people writing to venue owners/management asking them to cancel prebooked gigs isn’t cancelling someone?
Correct.
Cancelling a show isn't cancelling a person, since they can put on a show elsewhere. Writing to someone asking them to cancel something obviously isn't cancelling anything. That's what "asking them to" means.