[Closed] So John Cleese expected free advertising for his tour but got...

I thought he handled the questions that were fed to him fairly well, and didn't say anything overtly controvertial (only half listening so may have missed something), especially as they appeared to be on a subject he hadn't really prepared for. He only seemed to take the hump when it got persistent.

I say that as someone who generally grimaces when people start banging on about people being "woke".

Just watched it now - once great comedian is now an out of touch rude dinosaur

Verses.

He should have been prepared for the cancel culture questions at least as he's just made a documentary on it.

When you do public interviews you're givn a brief to work towards, its generally accpeted as unprofessional if you deviate from that with a view to catchnig people out. I think he did fine and he has a lot of valid points.

I'm not sure where he is on the cancel culture thing, I think he pulled out of a talk at Cambridge University because he was expecting to be "cancelled". Seems like some bizarre attempt at getting some publicity.

especially as they appeared to be on a subject he hadn’t really prepared for

The subject he said he'd been reading widely on for a documentary? Nothing wrong with his answers, just odd that he was annoyed with the questions. Even odder if he's formally complaining rather then just shrugging it off and moving on... which I thought would have been more his style.

There's nothing overly controversial in there. He's absolutely right about the polarisation of society, and the comments about over protecting people are perfectly legitimate. I generally draw the line when people speak of 'woke culture' (what does it even mean??). But for the most part it's fairly balanced on his behalf and you can understand a bit of frustration given that the presenter is clearly looking for a juicy story.

It's difficult to see on a day to day basis how antagonistic journalism has become, but if you go back several decades, at least to Cleese's time, and watch interviews from back then, the difference is night and day.

That's not to defend his views, I know very little about them. And I am surprised how much of a grumpy old man he has become.

I think he pulled out of a talk at Cambridge University because he was expecting to be “cancelled”

He pulled out becuase someone else, who in the past had done an impression of Adolf Hitler, was 'cancelled' because of it. He acnowledged that he'd also done impressions of Hitler and withdrew on that basis. Clearly his point was made in protest.

Cleese has been prominent in the issue of cancel culture/culture wars/woke/identify politics etc since the Labour government made it illegal to make a joke about someone's religion. He predicted then that that path would lead to far worse outcomes and to some extent he is right.

I guess he wasn’t expecting the Spanish Inquisition?

I have a meeting later today to go over some items I'm pretty familiar with. If you ask me about them again in a few days, I'll muddle through it but it won't be front and centre in my mind, especially if I'm planning to talk to you about something else.

As I say, he started out answering the questions (albeit a bit grumpily), it was only when it was clear that she wasn't going to deviate from them to what he had been booked to talk about that he got the hump.

I've not followed his career much lately, so wasn't aware he's doing doc's about it.

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.

Nothing particularly wrong with what John Cleese says or does but he, like many other aging celebs, does need to know when to retire from the limelight.

‘woke culture’

It means judging people based on their membership of specific groups based on social, cultural, gender or ethnic identity. It is the far left's answer to the far right (in it's most extreme form) and in that form is predicated on Marxist ideology of power groups that seek to exploit one group over another for their own benefit and gain. Where Marxist ideology was previously based on this exploitation being economic, it is now regarded as cultural, hence the term cultural Marxism. All this was laid down in the Frankfurt school in the 60s but has recently gained new vigor with ideas embedded in critical race theory and third and fourth wave feminism.

Don't shoot me, I'm just explaining the mechanisms at play that explain 'woke culture'.

timbog160
Full Member
I guess he wasn’t expecting the Spanish Inquisition?

Well done you.😁

I just think he misused the word "woke" - made him sound like he was against woke sensibilities, which he's obviously not. It is a shite word anyway.

I guess he wasn’t expecting the Spanish Inquisition?

*round of applause *

He came across as fine to me just a bit grumpy. I think he had some valid points to make and the interviewer appeared to just be trying to catch him out rather than having an interesting conversation.

Ideally he should have stayed and said he'd rather discuss the shows he's doing than walk off. But I didn't see it as a big deal. Thought the interviewer came off worse.

Seems to simply get fed up of answering the same question over and over which wasn't the topic offered before the interview.

Bit of an overreaction though.

Well given I clicked on this thread, he got free publicity for his tour…

Regarding the way he answered the question about cancel culture I thought he made his point well.
I’m aware that my gen zee kids would disagree with what he says strongly and some further to the right would be be more damning of cancel culture. I’m closer to what he said than either of those extremes

Don’t shoot me

We won’t, but that’s all often repeated bullshit you’re typing there. We had another poster who typed exactly the same thing. I mean, word for word the same thing. Makes you think.

He was pretty reasonable. I suppose he has the reputation, age and experience to just walk off like that and not be worried about how it looks. Someone else might have felt forced to put up with it. (I'm assuming the interview did veer away from the agreed content)

He seemed a bit grumpy from the start, if the interview was supposed to be a vehicle for him to promote his upcoming tour I can see why it pissed him off when she finally got around to asking him about it it was immediately negative (like "so why Asia in the middle of a pandemic" sort of thing). Her switching back to cancel culture again I guess was enough for him to throw his toys out of the pram.

It is a shite word anyway

A point he made in the interview, more or less.

TBH I thought his answers were reasonable, but he did seem a little bit primed to be pissed off. It escalated very quickly, although perhaps he felt the journalist was straying off the brief from the outset.

I can sort of see his being a bit defensive: it's hard to have a balanced discussion around things like cancel culture at the moment, and hence probably very easy to get stitched up in interviews, etc. But if that's a worry for you, doing a documentary about cancel culture probably isn't the wisest thing to do.

....and here we go....

Thank goodness for Mr. Cleese. Not many people standing up for what they believe in in the face of overwhelming pressure from the on-trend 'You can't do this you can't say that.....' brigade.

He did seem a bit grumpy though I have to say. He has the intelligence to handle these questions easily if he could be bothered to do so, which clearly he couldn't on this occasion.

Kelvin you spend too much time here, go and ride a bike 😋

andykirk
Free Member
Thank goodness for Mr. Cleese. Not many people standing up for what they believe in in the face of overwhelming pressure from the on-trend ‘You can’t do this you can’t say that…..’ brigade.

@andykirk

Genuine question alert here.

What are the things you wish you could say but can't?

he's got a weird crease round his left eye hasn't he? I was more concentrated on that than what he was saying tbh.

the Labour government made it illegal to make a joke about someone’s religion.

What law would that be, then?

It is perfectly fine to make a joke about someone's religion. It is not perfectly fine to discriminate against someone because of their religion.

Easy to get the two mixed up if it reinforces your world view, I know.

Poop
I can say anything I like as far as I am aware.
What I object to is other people making the decision for me on what I can and can't say.

andykirk
Free Member
Poop
I can say anything I like as far as I am aware.
What I object to is other people making the decision for me on what I can and can’t say.

I literally don't understand what you mean by that as there is a contradiction the size of a super massive black hole there.

That's ok.

^^ But thanks for answering.👍

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.

let's keep it seasonal shall we? 😂

I can say anything I like as far as I am aware.
What I object to is other people making the decision for me on what I can and can’t say.

You can say anything you like, but you object to not being able to say anything you like? That makes no sense, it's wholly contradictory. Which is it?

If you can, in fact, say anything you like then it's a wholly fictional problem; if you cannot say what you like then I'm sure we'd all be interested to hear what it is that you want to say but cannot.

When you do public interviews you’re givn a brief to work towards

ah jaysus he's a pillock, simply on the basis of his unpleasant, condescending and patronising manner to the news presenter.

The nearest he got to a specific thing that might be cancelled was when he was asked about whether racist humour that was once regarded as fine should be permissible, he said that cognitive behavioural psychologists think cosseting people makes them more vulnerable to depression (bollocks, incidentally - but then Clease did co author a book or two with Robin Gibb - I think, a psychotherapist anyway, one sometime between his divorces being on how to have a successful relationships - so he may be an expert). Meaning what? Folks should just put up with people being a bit racist to them? If he's so brave why didn't he just say that? I'm entirely happy to judge him by the colour of his skin [damn, can't post the pick of him from the link, face a deep porcine pink...]

If you can, in fact, say anything you like then it’s a wholly fictional problem; if you cannot say what you like then I’m sure we’d all be interested to hear what it is that you want to say but cannot.

Its political correctness gone mad

(NSFW)

Cougar - I'm afraid I don't understand what you wrote. I didn't say what you said I said. You said something I didn't say then asked me for an explanation. I can't explain something you said.

What I object to is other people making the decision for me on what I can and can’t say.

Who is deciding for you what you can say?

In the interview Clease may have wanted to say a bit of racism makes people more robust. It's likely the interviewer would have welcomed it if he had said that as there'd have been a story. He was the one deciding what to say (or rather not to say, given the flimsiness of his argument).

Cougar – I’m afraid I don’t understand what you wrote.

Well, that's something we have in common then.

I quoted what you actually said. If you didn't actually mean what you actually wrote then perhaps you could clarify as to what you did actually mean?

Again:

I can say anything I like as far as I am aware.
...
What I object to is other people making the decision for me on what I can and can’t say.

These two statements are mutually exclusive. The first states that you can say what you want, the second says that you can't say what you want. Which do you believe it to be, and if it's the second then what do want to say that you can't?

When you do public interviews you’re givn a brief to work towards, its generally accpeted as unprofessional if you deviate from that with a view to catchnig people out. I think he did fine and he has a lot of valid points.

I was a journalist for about 20 years and did exams and everything. This is not how public interviews work in a news environment. Chat show, maybe. News? No.

Chat show, maybe. News? No.

Seeing as the interview was to chat about his latest tour in the way that the no advertising BBC seems to like to fill the airwaves full of advertorial interviews, you could argue it was a chat show style interview

I was a journalist for about 20 years and did exams and everything.

I like your style. I'm assuming that you didn't write for some poncy publication?

Have seen him in the past being interviewed and he's often come across as grumpy. Seemed to me he answered the questions on the subject then she brought them up again and he obviously couldn't be arsed to play her game so left.

I see everyones taken sides already!

I think I'm 80% on the interviewers side, 20% on John Cleeses. He just seemed a bit grumpy, should have batted those questions away pretty easily rather than walking off. Interviewers questions seem pretty reasonable given the context and Cleese enthusiasm for posting about cancel culture and wokeness on twitter.

Just watched it now – once great comedian is now an out of touch rude dinosaur

My mum was a manager in a WHSmiths branch in London decades ago where he was a customer. He hasn't changed.

e expected free advertising for

Literally the only reason 'slebs talk to the meeja. What's new

What we don't know is what was said to him e.g. "come on and tell us about your new tour, John." or "come on and have a wide ranging discussion on some culture, racism, Comedians in general and the issues around giving offense, state of the pandemic, stuff like that John"

Then she starts probing for a gotcha. Not what the producers and he discussed so he's off. Seems fair enough.

She wanted to catch him out on some culture and he batted her barbs aside. She tried to catch him on "how dare you earn a living during a pandemic" and he batted that aside. So she went back to trying to catch on old codger saying something *.* -ist. He didn't want to play.

I probably sit towards the "Woke" end of the scale (although I'm not sure I fully understand the term), and TBH I thought he seemed pretty reasonable, considered and engaged with the interview for about 6-1/2 minutes, and then politely opted out as he could see it was headed towards the interviewer trying to frame him as some sort of spokesperson for "Anti-woke comedy". when I don't quite think that was what Cleese was looking to do (discuss?)...

Anyway I don't actually believe in "Cancel culture", as in I don't think it really exists, it's mostly a RW fiction. Very few people get "Cancelled" some objectionable arses find the bookings dry up once they do or say something particularly objectionable, but that was always the nature of having a public profile and behaving like a dick.
And actually some people who's profile/career is winding down seem to be looking to get "Cancelled" as it seems to open up a whole new audience of culture-war zealots for them, where they can act like indignant bigots who just want to "Tell it like it is" (for a booking fee of course)...

It was a bit of a crap interview, not sure there's much of a complaint to be upheld though TBH...

(for a booking fee of course)…

Or the modern way… https://www.ustreme.com/

[ I am in no way comparing this guy to Cleese by the way ]

Cancel culture”, as in I don’t think it really exists, it’s mostly a RW fiction. Very few people get “Cancelled” some objectionable arses

I seem to recall several occasions when the looney lefty uni-brigade have used physical intimidation and violence to prevent speakers they disagree with from giving lectures. I seem to recall one occasion when they chucked bricks through the windows of the venue. The lecture was cancelled on safety grounds. That kind of cancel culture definitely exists.

I seem to recall several occasions when the looney lefty uni-brigade

Is there a uniform? Marching practice?

Love python etc, but since Cleese outed himself as a right wing racist nut job, I find him hard to watch 'in character' now, a bit like watching a Kevin Spacey film, nevermind actually listening to the man himself.

I guess he wasn’t expecting the Spanish Inquisition?

I think he went in expecting an argument but all he got was contradiction

Cleese has always been ****ing irritating, that's what makes him funny to some. I just find him ****ing irritating.

When I saw "Frankfurt school" on the previous page surrounded by incoherent text that was irritating too, it was copied into the search bar which came up with:

i_scoff_cake
Free Member

@kelvin

By cultural Marxism I mean the strand of Marxist thought that goes from Gramsci, to Critical Theory of Frankfurt School, Marcuse, then morphs into Critical methods by way of Kimberle Crenshawm etc., and CRT to the present day.

as the first result. Makes you think.

So let it out and let it in, hey Jude, begin,
You're waiting for someone to perform with.
And don't you know that it's just you, hey Jude, you'll do,
The movement you need is on your shoulder.

He answered the question about cancel culture up front. Then she just wanted to talk about that without following up on the answers he gave. It must have been painful for him

He's correct btw. His point about CBT was bob on.

Is there a uniform?

Too Marxist

Marching practice?

Marching = movement facism
Practice = time and expectation facism

You are cancelled.

I seem to recall several occasions when the looney lefty uni-brigade have used physical intimidation and violence

. I seem to recall one occasion when they chucked bricks through the windows of the venue.

Well if anyone needs conclusive proof, "I seem to recall" must surely provide it.

Cancel culture”, as in I don’t think it really exists, it’s mostly a RW fiction. Very few people get “Cancelled”.

A comedian called Roy Chubby Brown had his Sheffield show cancelled recently by the venue's management. I doubt it was because "the bookings had dried up", it was at the City Hall which is probably the biggest venue in the city. So he's obviously got quite the following. I was only vaguely aware who RCB is, always had him down as crude comedy from the 80's, I never realised he was HITLER MKII. Thank god the venue saved that poor large audience from being possibly offended.

So, that's one that even I know about in my small neck of the woods... so it does happen.

He lasted longer than I would have with that interviewer. I think he was making some very balanced good points and the interviewer wanted the conversation to go down a very specific route. When it didn't go the way she wanted it to she kept trying to dig a hole for Cleese who wasn't taking the bait.

I agreed with most of what he said.

She had a pretty smug grin on her face the whole time although I'll give her the benefit of the doubt on that one because it's the first I've seen of her.

Remember he's there to publicise his tour, not create good viral media for the BBCs own benefit.

It reminds me a lot of the interview between Quentin Tarantino and Krishnan guru Murphy who explained it very well before ending the interview.

If I had a venue, I think I'd 'cancel' it too, but then I wouldn't take a booking for a washed up has-been like Roy anyway.

I probably should have posted my thoughts as the op.

That said I do apologise for posting this topic as I suspect the last thing we all want right now is another contentious thread on here.

Anyway...

There are a few things he talked about in the interview that I don't agree with but they weren't overly continuous, and my views might simply be wrong. That happens a lot.

However he was directly asked, "is racist behaviour dressed up as banter acceptable as a joke?"

Now, it was an obvious "trap" question. Or rather, it was depending upon how you wanted to answer it.

He could have said "no" and shut it down straight away. No ifs, no buts.

Instead he basically took the 5th and instead criticised the nature of the question itself.

I think it's clear how he actually wanted to answer that question but self preservation is a very strong human trait. Even if only reputational or financial.

So, a leading question from the newscaster, absolutely, she reads Twitter too. A trap even, but only a trap if you patently want to give an answer that you know goes way, way beyond cancel culture etc.

I genuinely can't see any other motive for him not simply replying "no". Can anyone else?*

*Warning, that's a trap question, also a bleedin' obvious one.

If I had a venue, I think I’d ‘cancel’ it too, but then I wouldn’t take a booking for a washed up has-been like Roy anyway.

Well quite. I support the venue to book/cancel whatever artists they like, but why take the bloody booking in the first place then? Looks disingenuous.

Well quite. I support the venue to book/cancel whatever artists they like, but why take the bloody booking in the first place then? Looks disingenuous.

Good point.

I genuinely can’t see any other motive for him not simply replying “no”. Can anyone else?*

Well, given the context, the question reads like an accusation, and he might well have thought why should I have to take this s*** from some woman trying to manufacture controversy?

I think it’s clear how he actually wanted to answer that question but self preservation is a very strong human trait. Even if only reputational or financial.

Its not clear to me.

@ imnotverygood

An accusation, not seeing it?

It was a question plain and simple, an inconvenient and pertinent one it would seem for Cleese, but still just a question.

If I was asked it in real life I wouldn't take it as an accusation, I'd just give the obvious answer, no. Wouldn't have given it a seconds thought to be honest. Why would you?

Why ask it?

An accusation, not seeing it?

It was a question plain and simple, an inconvenient and pertinent one it would seem for Cleese, but still just a question.

If I was asked it in real life I wouldn’t take it as an accusation, I’d just give the obvious answer, no. Wouldn’t have given it a seconds thought to be honest. Why would you?

It was bait to try and create a narrative that the interviewer wanted, it was not a plain and simple question.

imnotverygood

Why ask it?

Why not ask it?

It was in the context of the discussion, it's a current news story and was asked on a news channel.

I can't think of a more appropriate situation.

It was bait to try and create a narrative that the interviewer wanted, it was not a plain and simple question.

It really is. You can try and paint it as something else but it really is a simple question and even simpler to answer.

"Is racism dressed up as banter ok?"

"No."

It's that easy.

Then it’s not much of a question then, is it?

imnotverygood
Full Member
Then it’s not much of a question then, is it?

Apparently it's harder than the Gordian knot to Cleese, but it's not really about the question being gargantuan, rather him being incapable of answering it in a palatable way.

Or it’s so simple a question that by her asking it, Cleese felt insulted, so left. … & that’s why he’s complained.

Cougar – I’m afraid I don’t understand what you wrote. I didn’t say what you said I said. You said something I didn’t say then asked me for an explanation. I can’t explain something you said.

Despite your protestations that you didn't say what he said you said, I think it can be safely said that what he said you said is definitely what you said. After all, if what was said actually wasn't said then that which was left unsaid can only not have been said if by being not said it was said to have been seen as being said. As Cougar said.

sounds like his agent would’ve been better off booking a slot on Graham Norton or something rather than BBC World News!

So very much this. Cleese’s agent screwed up. Cleese screwed up. Thought he was promoting his tour. Turned out he was being interviewed by a journalist on an actual news channel instead of BBC breakfast or something, got in a strop.
So many posters on here have missed that. The BBC is not one channel. This interview was on a news channel. Hence being interviewed by a news journalist rather than a presenter.
I don’t like him, but I might forgive him because this clearly was not the interview he expected. Same as a bunch of people on here.

I started watching the interview expecting to be offended by cleeses views but wasn't. Thought they were entirely reasonable really.

And I class myself on the woke-r end of the spectrum as others have said.

Interview style was completely inappropriate.

Don’t shoot me, I’m just explaining the mechanisms at play that explain ‘woke culture’. saying stuff

[IMG] [/IMG]

You are cancelled.

That's exactly the kind of intolerance I would expect from a tightyrighty.