So I've got this Mercedes and I have questions

Sounds unusual for them all to be faulty?

Mercedes - not unusual for many things on a MB to be faulty IME. Had some great ones, and some very pesky ones in the past.

Thankfully, most of the pesky ones were service-day cars whose hire was probably only a small fraction of the heinous service costs. Rattles - check; dodgy gear changes - check; numerous 'warning' lights - check; the list goes on.

Dealership biscuit selection was good though...

The fault was 'implausible signal' which could be a fault or it could be some other condition. Lots of things could cause that. As said, it could be something like the car having been towed (also not good though!) or it could be something like say, the accelerometers for the ESP are actually faulty and they tell the car it's moving but the wheels tell it it's not. Or vice versa, and it could be that it only shows up if you slide all four wheels in the snow or something. VAG cars can store a date with the code, although it's often inaccurate. I'd have liked to see what the date on those codes was - it's not on the Autologic printout.

Gear changes are actually improving to be fair. I took my luxury-car-owning neighbour out in it and it was very well behaved so maybe it's a case of adaptation somehow or maybe simply clearing those ABS codes helped or even triggered some other adaptation.

I found out that the RAC warranty is not refundable if you sell or otherwise get rid of the car, unless it's written off.

So even if I handed it back I'd be a grand out. So given that, my anxiety on the subject and the borderline nature of my claim I gave up and booked it in for a fix. I told them about the transmission and it may still turn out to be buggered, but I suspect that it's just going to be written down as one of those things.

The warranty is most likely worthless anyway. https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/thewarrantygroup.com

I used to be a claims manager for a car warranty firm.

The key word is sudden and unforeseen mechanical failure. Make sure any diagnosis avoids words like corrosion, degradation, wear etc.

You'll also find investigation isn't covered.

Does a proper merc garage think it's not right or is it in your head that it's not as good as it should be.

I think we could write this into a great nail biting TV miniseries.

The warranty is most likely worthless anyway.

Quite possible. But it's too late now.

Does a proper merc garage think it’s not right or is it in your head that it’s not as good as it should be.

Dunno but I'm going to have to go and talk to one just to be sure. More jerky shifting today on a drive around town.

Forget the warranty thing, you had one already, which was probably just the same statuary rights as a consumer, if it doesn't work as expected you can return it for a refund, them giving you a warranty makes it surprisingly hard to do that.

So where we at? have you changed the gearbox oil yet?

Have a google of conductor plate faults on the 7G gearbox. Speed sensor fault codes can be a symptom.

If there are fault codes stored, clearly this an as issue predating your purchase. You shouldn’t have had them cleared, the car should have gone back to the selling dealer to sort (or at least not proceed until they/warranty company agree to pick up the bill).

If it turns out to be an expensive fix, third party repairs will make it more difficult for you to get resolution from the dealer.

I found out that the RAC warranty is not refundable if you sell or otherwise get rid of the car, unless it’s written off.

So even if I handed it back I’d be a grand out. So given that, my anxiety on the subject and the borderline nature of my claim I gave up and booked it in for a fix. I told them about the transmission and it may still turn out to be buggered, but I suspect that it’s just going to be written down as one of those things.

I really don't understand why the car isn't back with the original dealer for fix or reject. The whole point of paying the dealer premium is the peace of mind that if something reveals itself quickly you have recourse.

If you reject, surely the warranty cost is then reimbursable?

I really don’t understand why the car isn’t back with the original dealer for fix or reject.

It's booked in with them for a repair.

I didn't feel I had a good enough case to reject it. They would fight tooth and nail against it and I haven't got the stomach for taking on a load of slippery used car salesmen in a borderline case.

You paid for a warranty from a dealer? Bastards!

They are fixing it for free though? If so that's a good enough result.

I didn’t feel I had a good enough case to reject it.

"Hi, I bought this 2 weeks ago, and the gearbox doesn't seem to be right since I've driven it. Here are the keys, phone me when it's fixed. If you can't do that, here's my bank details for my money back"

is the entire conversation. Stop trying to figure out what's wrong with it. It either goes or doesn't. End

“Hi, I bought this 2 weeks ago, and the gearbox doesn’t seem to be right since I’ve driven it. Here are the keys, phone me when it’s fixed. If you can’t do that, here’s my bank details for my money back”

is the entire conversation. Stop trying to figure out what’s wrong with it. It either goes or doesn’t. End

👏

This is Moly though ; son of TJ with added angst 😉

I didn’t feel I had a good enough case to reject it. They would fight tooth and nail against it and I haven’t got the stomach for taking on a load of slippery used car salesmen in a borderline case

The onus is on them to prove it's OK, as stated above it's fix it or I reject it.

Here are the keys, phone me when it’s fixed. If you can’t do that, here’s my bank details for my money back”

They'll say "well we think it's fine".

Then they'll refuse to take it back and there'll be a protracted battle. You think they'd just let me walk out with my money back? Have you read how vague the legislation is?

Here are the keys, phone me when it’s fixed.

I did that, it's booked in on the 20th.

The onus is on them to prove it’s OK

Prove to whom? What's the process for this? Whose opinion matters more?

They’ll say “well we think it’s fine”.

How can they when a few days ago you were convinced that major parts of the internals of the autobox  were hell bent on becoming external components?

How can they when a few days ago you were convinced that major parts of the internals of the autobox were hell bent on becoming external components?

I think you've misunderstand. If there were something dramatically and obviously wrong then there'd be no question, like some horrible noises or lights on etc. However whilst I am fairly sure something isn't right, it's working well enough to allow them to claim I'm being too fussy. So it's up to me to prove that which is what I'm attempting to do. The first step is to try and establish how smooth it is meant to be in the first place since I've never driven one of these before.

I shouldn't have bothered with the first diagnostic place, but I am still booked into the better place on Friday. They have STAR which will give me the details I need.

The first step is to try and establish how smooth it is meant to be in the first place since I’ve never driven one of these before.

Can the dealership provide you with a similar vehicle for you to benchmark against? If that one drives in the same way then you could accept it's a foible of the gearbox and not just you being over picky.

Well that's why I'll go to the dedicated Merc place on Friday. I'm told they are enthusiasts and very good so I'll accept their opinion and experience.

If there were something dramatically and obviously wrong then there’d be no question, like some horrible noises

On this thread a few days ago you said:

Pretty sure the flywheel is toast.

– Shudder when start/stop operates
– Shudder or rattle when stopping from a slow crawl i.e. when parking
Noticeable vibration when driving at 70 unladen in the motorway, especially up hills

None of that lot seems to be you being "too fussy" The car sounds like it's got some major faults. How can the garage say "It's fine"?

Well that’s why I’ll go to the dedicated Merc place on Friday. I’m told they are enthusiasts and very good so I’ll accept their opinion and experience.

Are you taking it to an independent garage or back to the selling dealer?

If the former, are the independent garage tasked with obtaining a diagnosis?

If it is going to an indie (again) have you actually contacted the selling dealer yet? You should at least call them - just say 'I don't think the gearbox is right, hasn't been since day 1 but due to work/holiday this is the first chance I've had to look at it properly. I've found a good indie with dealer level diagnostics. Are you ok for me to get them to take a look or should I bring it to you?'

The path you're setting off on is likely to result in all costs landing squarely at your door. If it is borked, and the dealer gets a whiff of third party involvement before they've been given the chance to take a look, they are quite likely to tell you to foxtrot oscar.

However, you might find they are more than happy for an indie to diagnose/advise on the issues. To have the full weight of your consumer rights behind you, the seller must be given the opportunity to repair.

Are you taking it to an independent garage or back to the selling dealer?

I took it to a diagnostics place first, because the indie could only get me in on Friday which is the last working day of the 28 days. They gave me a list of errors, so I called the dealer and told them the problems and they are going to look at it on the 20th. The list of errors did not include any current transmission errors but did include some on the aircon.

I'm taking it to a second indie for diagnostic and an opinion on Friday, these are the Merc experts and they have STAR which gives the best diagnostic info, and the mechanics there will give me their opinion on the transmission. If they agree that it's not right I will call the dealer and record this. Then we will have a chat on the 20th about what they plan to do about it.

No work has been carried out, only diagnostics, which is exactly what they advised me to do during the sale.

No work has been carried out, only diagnostics, which is exactly what they advised me to do during the sale.

And a load of codes reset.

At risk of repeating everyone - take it back! You are eroding any case you have any time someone else prods it. You don't need to build a case until AFTER they reject you and had first refusal at repair.

They also refused you a test drive which, from what I can see, was already allowed in Wales so have double ****ed you. Most likely because the guy knew it was a shitter.

which is exactly what they advised me to do during the sale.

Say what? Did they know something was wrong or you suspected it during the Sales process? If a Salesman had advised me to take diagnostics I'd have said " no thanks, you do it and show me the results before I hand over anything..."

I did that, it’s booked in on the 20th.

That's not very quick for a problem, they should have said bring it down and let a mechanic test drive it.
You are at least now back with the seller, turn the problem over to them, replacing sensors and cleaning contact points etc is a lot of farting about to then discover other problems, by handing it to them they now have that journey, which is as it should be.

You do take ages though, I'd have been back down there 10 mins after the first sign of problems and requesting a free sun glasses holder for my troubles.

You spent £13k in buying from a car supermarket who wouldn't allow you a test drive; why not would have been my first question to them.
Fid you check the car history - know your car website, for example.
You think there are problems but appear to be reluctant to confront the car supermarket.
Instead of that you're going to dealers/indy specialists and incurring costs when you should be at the car supermarket making it their problem.
Get a grip and confront them in person; check up on your legal rights.
You come across as forthright when you post on various threads - adopt the same attitude with the supermarket unless you're happy to live with an underperforming car and aren't bothered about getting vfm for your £13k outlay.

The actions you’re taking will mean the people who sold you the car can walk away.

At risk of repeating everyone – take it back!

What do you think they'll say? I've no idea why you think they'll just go 'oh ok then'. They'll drive it and go 'it's fine', of course.

check up on your legal rights

I have. I have to demonstrate there's something significantly wrong with it. That's what I'm going to do.

Say what? Did they know something was wrong or you suspected it during the Sales process?

No it was a formality - they said that there's a 28 day warranty so it makes sense to get it checked out. I didn't expect them to have done a full scan on every car - it'd have been nice if they did, but no big deal since I had the opportunity to do it myself which is what I've done.

You do take ages though, I’d have been back down there 10 mins after the first sign of problems and requesting a free sun glasses holder for my troubles.

I needed it to go on holiday, didn't you read the earlier thread? I had to get a car that day or cancel the family holiday. I wouldn't have bought the car if I'd had time, I probably wouldn't have bought any car.

The actions you’re taking will mean the people who sold you the car can walk away.

Not sure where you get that idea from. I'm just determining if there's a genuine fault or not. If there is, then it's either fix it or money back. Me coming in saying 'oh well it's not that smooth, is it?' isn't going to cut the mustard, they'd send me packing.

I'm happy to confront people and assert myself, but I need solid grounds from which to do it.

You seem strangely convinced they will try to bat you off, their options are narrow at this stage, if they don't fix it to your satisfaction they have to give you 13K back, once back in their hands it's their problem, YOU are the one THEY need to satisfy, if they manage to palm you off with short fixes till the warranty time is up be aware you have used up most of it, all they need to do now is make the gearbox work long enough to get rid of you, by the time it grinds to a halt it will be your problem.

There is an inbuilt cynicism with car dealers, sometimes warranted, salesmen don't care what the garage needs to deal with in bigger outfits, they just want to hit sales targets, in bad outfits the salesman might be called out on you costing them money in repairs down the line, something they want to offload and just go away, this is bad business but happens, but most of the time they want you to be satisfied.

I’m happy to confront people and assert myself, but I need solid grounds from which to do it.

Report from an independent transmission specialist? Probably worth the £250 or so it would cost.

Was cancelling the holiday cheaper than 13k?

I needed it to go on holiday, didn’t you read the earlier thread?

I have just hired in that situation

I’m happy to confront people and assert myself, but I need solid grounds from which to do it.

It's generating codes and you could just film it when it does the judder or whatever when you are driving around

You seem strangely convinced they will try to bat you off, their options are narrow at this stage, if they don’t fix it to your satisfaction they have to give you 13K back, once back in their hands it’s their problem, YOU are the one THEY need to satisfy,

+1

Are you missing the Passat yet? 😂

if they don’t fix it to your satisfaction they have to give you 13K back

That's what will happen if we can absolutely confirm there's a problem.

Was cancelling the holiday cheaper than 13k?

It would have meant we didn't get one, or we got a significantly worse one as we'd booked the time off work and it couldn't easily be moved.

I have just hired in that situation

That was the first thing I looked at but hiring a car with a towbar would have cost me £1800 at the very least if I could have found one available. The only people advertising it as a selling point would have asked for over two grand.

It’s generating codes

It generated codes in the past. As for the judder I don't know if that's to be expected or not, that's why I need the opinion of the specialist whom I booked within a few days of getting the car.

YOU are the one THEY need to satisfy,

No, the law is the one they need to satisfy ultimately.

Hold on a sec, since you bought the car you’ve gone on holiday towing something with it? Probably not something to be done if you wanted to hand it back, it kind of demonstrates an acceptance of the condition of the vehicle.

Can you not put an announcement out in the press that the two of you have consciously uncoupled?

They’ll have to give you your money back then

You should definitely take it to pieces at least once first though

And post pictures

Probably not something to be done if you wanted to hand it back, it kind of demonstrates an acceptance of the condition of the vehicle.

No by law there's a 28 day period where you can get a refund unconditionally IF it has a sigificant fault. The grey area is what constitutes 'significant'.

@binners I am ignoring you

Hold on a sec, since you bought the car you’ve gone on holiday towing something with it? Probably not something to be done if you wanted to hand it back, it kind of demonstrates an acceptance of the condition of the vehicle.

Sorry but that is nonsense - how else can the condition of a vehicle be ascertained if not by using it?

Sorry but that is nonsense

Yes it is legally and commercially you are correct, so we could forget what I'm about to say next.

The general point of contention is that he was happy to drive it ? miles towing a ? with his family in the car and then upon his return he doesn't want it. I'm assuming there was some miles between the sales lot and the holiday and /or a test drive before that holiday to ascertain any issues.

Outside of the law so maybe irrelevant I'd be arguing the with him at least if I was the dealer, as it raises all kinds of questions e.g. what was the load he towed and can he demonstrate it was in the vehicle limits and didn't damage the gearbox?

TLDR; yet another doubt about cause and effect in his argument IMHO.

I’m assuming there was some miles between the sales lot and the holiday and /or a test drive before that holiday to ascertain any issues.

Nope. As per the other thread I had to buy a car and immediately take it on holiday, or risk no holiday.

Their policy is no test drive untiafter you've committed to buy it, and the test drive we went on was about 3 minutes up and down the road. Not even enough time to get it warmed up and not enough time to work out if the transmission was working well enough all under 40mph too and with the guy going 'left here, round the roundabout' etc all the time.

Hi molgrips,I'm sure I've read that you reside in Cardiff so just wanted to let you know that there is a Mercedes specialist in Pontypridd who has a good rep.I know you have an appointment with one but just wanted to inform you in case you wanted a second opinion or ultimately need proper repairs down the line.
Good luck with it.

Thanks ogri will bear it in mind for later!

Their policy is no test drive untiafter you’ve committed to buy it

Yeah Evans halshaw tried that with me too. I wonder how often it actually works......

I just said if that's policy we won't be doing business today.

The car was soon out on a test drive.

They put alot of faith in "their" checks and assume everyone having a look around is a clueless tire kicker who shares their faith.

Your the one buying the car you should be satisfied that the car is for you before you agree to buy not after.

Nope. As per the other thread I had to buy a car and immediately take it on holiday, or risk no holiday.

Their policy is no test drive untiafter you’ve committed to buy it,

Maybe in your defence then this is a positive? In that without the option of a full test drive the level of expectation is set to it being fit for purpose, which perhaps it isn't?

I haven't read the whole thread but something is definitely amiss with the 'box and I hope you're able to get some demonstrable evidence to that end. My brother had a 2012 C350d which I drove quite a few miles in and I think had the same 7G 'box we're talking about here. It was lovely. So smooth you'd think it was running on double cream not derv.. some of this smoothness was potentially helped by the 6 cyl motor but it shouldn't be much different with a 4 cyl. It had about 60-70k on the clock at this point I think. Just my two penneth worth. Good luck with it.

Not even enough time to get it warmed up and not enough time to work out if the transmission was working well enough

It's a dealer, your consumer rights protect you. You should have just booked it in with them after your holiday and got a courtesy car until it's sorted. If they didn't entertain that then it's a rejection. The whole point of the consumer rights is to protect people in exactly this situation

No by law there’s a 28 day period where you can get a refund unconditionally IF it has a sigificant fault.

That should hold, it has a tow bar so should be able to do that within its warranty, you got it looked at by professionals etc, all good, the only thing still puzzling me is that you have not actually determined if there is something wrong with it, have you not had a mechanic jump in and just take it round the block?

You don't need to diagnose and tell them the fix for it. You need to tell them it's not working, give a description of the fault and tell them that it needs fixing. That's it.

Hi, bought this car from you three weeks ago, the gearbox feels like it's not working, lumpy and slow shifting, occasional jolting on stop start etc. Can you take a look please and if you cannot get it rectified to my satisfaction I will look to exercise my statutory rights to seek a refund.

So get it back to the selling dealer asap and put them on notice. Stop mucking about and doing things that may erode or eliminate your rights just in case the dealer is difficult. Deal with them being difficult IF and WHEN it actually becomes an issue.

Too late now and I understand the motivation given the various kinds of shit most of us have endured during Covid to not wreck the family holiday but going on holiday with a caravan in a car with a misbehaving auto box that you've just bought rather than going straight back down to the dealer and losing a couple of days holiday while they looked at/refunded it Vs a potentially massive loss on repairing or replacing a complex auto transmission yourself out of your own pocket seems like the wrong balance to me but has also left you short of time so my advice would be stop wasting what you do have left and tackle this head on.

Ok look.

The law says there has to be a significant fault. Now, the car is generally fine, it goes ok and in the higher gears it's not too bad. The first place I took it thought it was alright because it functions, it shifts, you can drive it.

But in my opinion it's nowhere near as good as a Merc should be. Why? Chances are it's because there's a worn part or something subtle has failed. If I went to them and said 'I don't think this is quite right' then I can guarantee they'll say 'seems fine to us'. That's why it's booked into the dedicated Merc specialist with STAR. If these people are as good as they are made out to be then they'll hopefully be able to get some better metrics in the state of the tranny, or be able to say from experience that there is something up.

Whilst on holiday I was driving either with the caravan, on country lanes or on 50/60mph windy roads. I did no motorway and no suburban driving. I've done a lot more suburban driving this week and I am now confident the issue is between gears 2,3 and 4, it's definitely surging, and the rattle is easily reproducible just by moving from D to N when warm. If I am going to take it back as faulty then I need to be able to reliably reproduce it otherwise they won't spot it. It's taken me three weeks to pin it down, they won't notice it in a 5 nin test drive.

If the specialist agrees with me then I will definitely be asking for a refund. I just haven't got the ammo to do that before Friday.

losing a couple of days holiday while they looked at/refunded it

Nah if I'd done that we would never have got away at all. They've taken 2 weeks to book it in even now. It would have taken at least a week or more to find another car, or I'd have had to take the old model Kia which I didn't want at all.

Have you talked to it and asked it how it feels about continued negativity towards it?

You’re coming across as being very hostile. You’re undermining its confidence

"I think you ought to know I'm feeling very depressed."

Marvin the paranoid Mercedes with genuine people personality?

Infinite improbability (of working) drive?

You’re doing their work for them while at the same time making your position weaker.

Times ticking away.

The law says there has to be a significant fault.

Since when has a gearbox fault been minor?

I just said if that’s policy we won’t be doing business today.

The car was soon out on a test drive.

Where's that awesome puppy meme? Ah, there it is...

[IMG] [/IMG]

Good luck, MG.

Get thee to the car supermarket at opening time with a feeling of burning righteousness; pitchfork in one hand, bombers in the other, pockets full of frozen sausages and threaten to hammer them into every exhaust pipe until they take you seriously.
Make sure you have a full bladder so you can wee into any shoes you see.
That should get a result - may not be the one you want...

DON'T use the word worn with anyone not warranty people not the dealer no one. Not even your wife.

Ever

Out of all the advice on here remember the above.

Warranty covers breakage. Not wear, not in service degradation.

If sir wanted a un worn car sir would need to buy new.

Trust me I ran a warranty office looking after 100s of claims a week.

And as a point of note I'd never buy with out a test drive. Never mind blind like cazoo

Just shows people class cars as the same as washing machines....

Which they are but 25xthe price.....

C'mon duncan, spill the beans; tell us how to maximise the chance of getting a result.

and I am now confident the issue is between gears 2,3 and 4, it’s definitely surging, and the rattle is easily reproducible just by moving from D to N when warm.

So just video it on your mobile, it's proof of an issue, easily passed to others when you escalate if they get awkward

If I am going to take it back as faulty then I need to be able to reliably reproduce it otherwise they won’t spot it. It’s taken me three weeks to pin it down, they won’t notice it in a 5 nin test drive.

Take it in (car now warm) ask for service manager to come out, demonstrate noise. Hand them the keys, ask for the courtesy car. Email him your video.

Bear 😂

And as a point of note I’d never buy with out a test drive. Never mind blind like cazoo

I thought buying blind actually increases your consumer protection. If they don't declare the issue at point of sale you have (time limited) recourse from a dealer.

Offft. This thread makes me glad I stopped buying secondhand cars. With the amount of PCP deals around it seems generally bonkers to buy anything over £15k secondhand when you can buy new and pay one low low low monthly fee.

That's why you see so many kids these days driving brand new cars. That and not being able to ever afford their own home, so live at home and get free dinners.

Have you thought about torching the dealership Molls?

I think you should rock up with the caravan attatched
Dump it in front of the big windows
Then go in and demand they take it for a test drive as the gear box is lurching
Ypu get to see numpty reverse a caravan off the forecourt
And they can look aftet the van whilst its fixed and you wont have it blighting your drive at home
Win for you, and your neighbours

Where’s that awesome puppy meme? Ah, there it is…

Who ended up with a banjoed car. Ergo it was worth countering car salesmams dick move with my own. 40k miles and going strong with only servicing , brake pads and tires. Better than the others I drove that day that were in need of tlc only evident from a drive.

I'm with Duncan. People on here spend more time test riding their brand new bike to help them form an arbitrary opinion on how it rides than they do a used car to determine if it works right .

This thread is all a bit harsh on molgrips. He bought a car as a distressed purchase (ignoring why it was a distressed purchase…..!), it turned out that there is a fault. He couldn’t fix that immediately without ruining a family holiday, so as soon as his holiday was over he has tried to understand the issue so he can dispute it with the dealer. Now it is booked in with the dealer - the whole process seems reasonable to me.

This.

There's a lot of people smugly posting all sorts of reasons that he shouldn't have bought the car in the first place whilst completely ignoring why he he bought the car in the first place...

There’s a lot of people smugly posting all sorts of reasons that he shouldn’t have bought the car in the first place whilst completely ignoring why he he bought the car in the first place…

Whilst this is somewhat fair, what was the reason for being in such a pressured situation in the first place, e.g. why not have found and bought a car a few weeks before?

He broke the engine mount bolts (iirc) on his Passat the day before going on holiday, so urgently needed a car with a tow bar

Now it is booked in with the dealer – the whole process seems reasonable to me.

He appears to have booked it in with a second independent specialist to diagnose the problem

He may have also booked it in with the dealer, but people are wondering why he is paying independents when he could just take it back with evidence of the symptoms.

The warranty discussion is arguably mute as it's a consumer rights thing. They didn't tell him about the fault, he wasn't allowed to test drive properly. Gearbox faults are by their nature significant.

Since when has a gearbox fault been minor?

The whole question is whether or not it's a genuine fault, or it's a normal condition to be expected with age.

I think the former, but my opinion isn't enough because of the wording of the law. The symptoms I can see are suggestive of either a miscalibration or a sensor fault, and I need help pinning that down.

Presumably some of you think it's clunking and grinding its way along the road. Obviously it's not, or it'd have gone straight back. Bear in mind the first indie test drove it and thought it was ok. So the dealer will clearly think it's ok too. That's why I need more evidence.

@duncancallum's advice is good though cheers.

There’s a lot of people smugly posting all sorts of reasons that he shouldn’t have bought the car in the first place whilst completely ignoring why he he bought the car in the first place…

Because he was a brand snob who didn't want the Kia which was the alternative?

Who ended up with a banjoed car. Ergo it was worth countering car salesmams dick move with my own. 40k miles and going strong with only servicing , brake pads and tires. Better than the others I drove that day that were in need of tlc only evident from a drive.

So actually the company with that "policy" were the only one with cars which were in good condition? I'd say for a credible business to adopt it as a "policy" shows a level of confidence in their stock - anyone doing it, must have a mechanism for "undoing" any sales which go wrong, but are inevitably going to be a PITA so you must assume its infrequent for people to come back (and I'd also suggest that when they do come back (at least quickly) that the default position is probably refund quickly and sell it again) which is why the taking it to other places for opinions is wasting everyone's time:

Presumably some of you think it’s clunking and grinding its way along the road. Obviously it’s not, or it’d have gone straight back. Bear in mind the first indie test drove it and thought it was ok. So the dealer will clearly think it’s ok too. That’s why I need more evidence.

I think your first step should still have been to take it back to them - if not satisfied with their response THEN you could go for independent assessments. If they simply said, "here, have your money back" or "here have 95% of your money back" would you be happy?

So actually the company with that “policy” were the only one with cars which were in good condition? I’d say for a credible business to adopt it as a “policy” shows a level of confidence in their stock

thats being somewhat economical with the facts.

Id put it down to blind luck that the vehicle got to their forecourt fault free going by their trustpilot reviews.

Because he was a brand snob who didn’t want the Kia which was the alternative?

Not unreasonable to expect a Merc to be a more pleasant driving experience than a Kia, is it? I wanted an estate, rather than an SUV after all.

Re the fault, I stil can't prove it's actually faulty rather than just old, part worn or it just needs a reset.

If they simply said, “here, have your money back” or “here have 95% of your money back” would you be happy?

Yes, with 100% anyway, but that seemed so unlikely as to not be worth the stress.of trying it, without solid evidence.

This thread makes me glad I stopped buying secondhand cars. With the amount of PCP deals around it seems generally bonkers to buy anything over £15k secondhand when you can buy new and pay one low low low monthly fee.

The difference being that you don't have to spend your life worrying about someone smacking a door in a supermarket car park or catching an allow on a kerb etc. We spent just over £15k on a car just under 14 years ago - paid for it in full in four years and have had a further 10 years of just regular maintenance costs (and I couldn't give a shiny shit if someone decided to run a key down the side) – people make different decisions on what works for them.

Re the fault, I stil can’t prove it’s actually faulty rather than just old, part worn or it just needs a reset

You don't need to. Take it back, say words to the effect of "the gears don't work properly" and step back. That's it.