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Currently have the Krups one here:
Krups Which is inconsistent but quick
and a Peugeot vintage one like this:
Peugeot Which is consistent and not a load of effort and i BELIEVE it grinds fine enough but not 100% sure.
What should i be looking for HAND grinder wise - bit mine are burr grinders
How's heating the workshop going?
@cynic-al fine why do you ask? Norther England isn't as cold as Scotland!
You posted up about heating in the past, am just wondering.
The sage grinders are a good starting point - they are abundant second hand. The key thing with espresso grinding is being able to make small adjustments to the grind, which make a big difference in terms of the quality of your espresso. I would be tempted to go electric over hand-powered. Barratza sette I think are acknowledged to be another good entry level grinder.
A Hario.
We have a skerton pro. It works well enough, but I think the grind adjustments could be a bit smaller per setting.
My Delonghi Dedica isn't really up to the job, although it's a bit better after I attacked the insides with a file.
If I'm honest, I get better, more consistent results from fresh pre-ground coffee.
The Sage though is excellent. It does though show up the weaknesses in my attempts at grinding coffee.
As you've asked Niche. It seems you upped the budget for the machines so might as well go all out for the grinder.
Or the matching Sage grinder if you really have to 😉
As above, you'll need to be able to make fine adjustments to trial and error your way to a good shot. However, in my experience, once you've got there you will mainly leave it be, with the occasional need to adjust when you change beans. And you'll get the hang soon enough of how much to adjust that your next shot will be decent enough.
There are espresso grade hand grinders out there although the process of trial end error to get it right might be good arm exercise. I have a knock one which should be of good enough quality but I haven't taken on the challenge of adjusting it for espresso. There are cheaper options but most of them are not aimed at espresso.
The sage grinder is meant to be a decent entry level electric espresso grinder and I think there are others about that price point. Snobs would turn their nose up at it and some will insist even at that much £ it's all the emperor's new clothes but I suspect it's roughly where things start, to get a decent espresso out of your machine. I haven't used one though - in the same situation I picked up a second hand Eureka mignon on ebay. I couldn't get things working right to start with but after a while of crap shots I replaced the burrs and from there all was fine. Grinder had been in a cafe so pretty well used. In the end cost marginally more than a new sage but maybe also a bit better. 5 years later it's still good.
Basic starting point is aim for the shot to take around 30 secs with first drops appearing after like 5-10 secs. If it pisses through much quicker grind finer, and vice versa.
Edit: I assume Niche is way out of budget but if you start thinking even vaguely bear that price point just get a Niche and put the whole debate to bed. BTW if you want to borrow a Mignon to get going for a month or two and find yourself anywhere near Northampton you'd be welcome to borrow mine.
Oh, also, if your krups one goes fine enough but not consistent, it might work fine with some easy fix. Strip and clean to start with. It's amazing how much of an effect on taste cleaning stuff can have, and how much manky old grinds they can hold.
Glad you went for a nice machine. 👍
If it hasn’t been obvious by now, I like coffee quite a lot and am a bit geeky about it... 🙄
The best value new one I’ve seen is the Eureka Crono, 50mm flat burrs really well made and can be timer/on demand.
Sette - avoid, plastic gears and reliability issues
Sage - small conical, pricey when new and can be a bit inconsistent
For hand grinders you want bigger burrs if using for espresso, otherwise spending 5-7 minutes grinding each shot is a bit masochistic and your other half might not appreciate the extra faff...
I’ve got a Jx-pro for travel, works nicely for brew and grinds 18g for espresso in 30s. ~£160 direct with taxes.
https://1zpresso.coffee/product/jxpro/
UK made - but need to watch the site for new ones
https://www.madebyknock.com/store/p48/feld47travel.html
I like my Mazzer Mini-EL that I got about 13 years ago. Though if I were buying one today I’d be tempted by the Baratza Sette and Eureka Atom. Having said that, the sage grinder looks neat and the Rancilio Rocky is a safe bet.
@prettygreenparrot - I do like the Mazzers, built like tanks and pretty much immortal in home environment. With COVID there are quite a few on eBay now from small cafes, a bit of a shame really but there are some bargains...
I have a super-jolly, which I picked up for about 50 quid on gumtree.
They are built like tanks, but the parts are fairly expensive (except burrs and hoppers) if you do need to fix something.
If you do get a mazzer - this chap does good/cheap kits to replace the doser with something a bit more practical for home use (sorry, can’t add a link on my phone)
https://home-doserless.com/product/mazzer-super-jolly/
I got a second hand Eureka Mignon which is great for the money (£200). It's also compact and looks pretty.
The Niche would be the one if you have a bit more budget.
I have an old Peugeot manual grinder and no way does it grind fine enough for espresso.
The Sage Smart Grinder is great, with easy tuning of grind and timing and also provides a bracket to allow you to grind straight into the 54mm portafilter that sage machines use. It is the least faff option that provides a decent enough grind for your entry level coffee machine
As you’ve asked Niche. It seems you upped the budget for the machines so might as well go all out for the grinder.
this
Sage for me to match the duo plus. Tiny adjustments make it a lot easier to fine tune the end result.
I bought the Macap M4 as an ex demo machine from Italy via eBay. All turned out OK despite the obvious risks.
It grinds perfectly and you can get replacement burrs. That's about as much as I want from a grinder. It's not a particularly interesting subject once you get one that does what it should and meets the aficionados minimum requirements...
https://knowyourgrinder.com/macap-m4-stepless-doser-grinder-review/
Isn't the OP asking for hand grinder recommendations, you're all going to bankrupt him!
Yes, but recommending what you have is how it works on here!
And doubling their budget for them!
I think Knock make good hand grinders but they're not much cheaper than an entry level Baratza or Sage electric grinder. I've just got a Sage SGP and I'm happy with it, it saves me a lot of time from my previous hand grinder and is much more consistent.
The ROK hand grinder is pretty, don't know how good it is though?
Linky
Peak STW thread.
Just saying...
Isn’t the OP asking for hand grinder recommendations, you’re all going to bankrupt him!
Well, yeah, but on hand vs electric, the trouble is once you get up to something that grinds fine/consistent enough for that machine to work properly, the Sage one et al aren't that much more money, and we don't want to be responsible for him grinding away by hand for hours and ending up with a Rapha Nadal Arm and still bad coffee.
bear in mind my coffee will be had with milk (just sayin) so i think this is getting a tad carried away. I may well just buy local and get them to put through their grinder for me initialy
I'd normally only use a hand grinder when travelling but you can get some decent ones but they cost a fair bit. The cheaper end of the market are ok for aeropress or filter grinds but to get a decent espresso is much easier with an electric grinder. Also if you're doing more than one cup it can be a pain in the arse to have to grind them all manually. I've got the sage electric grinder at home and it does the job well. I would have had a mazzer mini but it's too big to go on the worktop under the cupboard so until I move where the coffee machine is that'll have to wait.
That ROK ^ looks the business. Addresses all the common issues with a hand grinder by having a big base and the grind handle is vertical, match racing boat style...sort of. The thing is does it have a enough increments for the grind setting to get it just right?
Whilst I have a hand grinder, if I had the space/cash, I would have a big Mazzer.
I got this one last year for Christmas.
It's my favourite gadget..
Sage smart grinder pro
https://fave.co/2IQNinP. (John Lewis)
Peak STW thread.
Just saying…
Not even close! Am looking at an option-o grinder to replace my super jolly. Single dosing’s where it’s at
I too have the Sage grinder - it was great but died 2 days outside of warranty. Fortunately Amazon still replaced it for me without charge and the replacement has been going for exactly one year on December 29.
bikerevivesheffield
bear in mind my coffee will be had with milk (just sayin) so i think this is getting a tad carried away. I may well just buy local and get them to put through their grinder for me initialy
You might be lucky but the point about needing fine adjustment is that if it's not ground fairly close to right, espresso machines don't really work. It's a bit binary in that if it's wrong the drink just isn't nice and then you're not really getting any benefit from the machine you have. You'll make a drink that's just not really worth making if you've already got an aeropress/whatever.
Although I don't exactly know what the minimum is for a grinder that'd do the job, I can offer some subjective data points. I would think my c.£100 Knock would do it, but I'd be surprised if there isn't a cheaper hand grinder out there that would work simply because Knock is pretty nice kit. However I'd also be surprised to find a £40 one did the job because those I have used don't go anywhere near fine enough and I guess much of the reason is that to do it requires more precision/strength.
What should i be looking for HAND grinder wise – bit mine are burr grinders
Doh. Missed that. Hand grinder is something I only use when traveling. Not used it for a while. It's a short Porlex grinder. OK for a cup or two but I would not like to grind for more than that.
@kimura54321 hadn't thought of that. It is sad, but perhaps an opportunity to look for some new equipment or spares...
@luket - James Hoffman did a cheap hand grinder review. Only really worth it for pour over.
The Made by Knock Aergrind would have won hands down if entered in the cheaper ones (mentioned in the ultimate showdown), it is one of the cheapest options for espresso now but with VAT is about £120 new, normally go for ~£85 second hand in good nick.
Still takes 4-5 minutes minutes to grind 18g, though it does grind both finely and evenly for it size.
i think i will save up for the sage smart grinder
+1 for the Made by Knock grinders. Just beautifully made and work really well. Brilliant things.