[Closed] So is it legal to overtake a cylist by crossing a white line on the road

I think its ok if they are passing a slow moving vehicle ,not sure of the definition of slow (speed)though

Yes, it's legal, provided you is slow:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070306

"You may cross the line if necessary, provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10 mph (16 km/h) or less."

129
Double white lines where the line nearest you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary, provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10 mph (16 km/h) or less.

perfectly legal. Stand down the mob.

Only if the bike is travelling at less than 10mph

or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at [b]10 mph (16 km/h) or less[/b]

Hehe.. that's pretty damn slow actually.

In practice, it's often perfectly safe to do so.

From 51 seconds in.

Very considerate of you to cycle in the gutter so they have space to pass you.

As above wrt speed, however 10mph is VERY slow. I'd have no problem with people overtaking me on twisties if I were crawling at 10-15, any faster and I'd probably find it annoying/distracting and it'd be more dangerous (cover more distance, round bends, while overtaking). I'd be more cheesed off that some of those got quite close before overtaking and since you were in the gutter they try to squeeze past when cars are coming the other way too. Stick centre lane and they'll be less likely to try to pass as the way ahead is more difficult to see/achieve if you think it's unsafe for them to pass there.

Your road position isnt great.
You really should take a wider position to make them think harder about crossing the white line further.
And you're a bit slow 😉

looked a badly designed road as well.

dont ride that road. One of the idiots will kill you

edit - whats the speed limit?

looked a badly designed road as well.

its not an urban space TJ, most roads arent "designed" and there's not a lot of opportunity to make them more cycle-safe.

If you actually mean the historic road shape does not make a safe cycling space then fine.

stoner - see my edit. It makes a difference. I hardly ever cycle on a road with more than a 30 mph limit. as fore "designed" - it appears to have various lines and coloured areas on the surface 🙂

Does any one else signal the drivers as to when it's safe/dangerous to overtake? There was probably too traffic on the road in the vid but maybe it would still be possible.
In my experience it's generally well received.

Apart from him being a bit slow and having a bad road position, other road users really are rubbish aren't they?

That lorry came way too close for a start and most of the vehicles came way too close.

don simon - Member

Does any one else signal the drivers as to when it's safe/dangerous to overtake?

Of course

In practice, it's often perfectly safe to do so.

As above, ride further out, make 'em go around you.

There are lots of places where over taking on double white lines on a motorcycle is as safe as houses. Police still don't seem to take too kindly to it though.

I must admit I tend to respect them in the car even with over taking cyclists, but then again I am probably more considerate being that I am often on the receiving end of close calls from cars on the bike. I do a bit of road biking these days and you can control the cars a little bit with road position.

My Dad got a ticket for overtaking a stationary vehicle on double solid white lines. The Policeman told him only could authorise him to overtake stationary vehicles in these circumstances. Did my Dad listen to me and go to court, no he took it on the chin and paid the fine.

The Policeman told him only could authorise him to overtake stationary vehicles in these circumstances.

I take it you mean only the policeman can authorise overtaking?

So if there are no police officers about, should you sit and wait for the next one to come along? Could be some time with the recent government cuts, etc... 🙄

My Dad got a ticket for overtaking a stationary vehicle on double solid white lines.

The law says you shouldn't stop (park) when there's double white lines, so the other guy should have been "done".

[i]Your road position isnt great.
You really should take a wider position to make them think harder about crossing the white line further.[/i]

🙄

1. Did he ask for advice?
2. Can you actually tell his road position from that video?
3. Have you ridden that road?

1. No
2. No
3. No (probably)

[b]1. Did he ask for advice?[/b]
2. Can you actually tell his road position from that video?
3. Have you ridden that road?

[b]1. No[/b]
2. No
3. No (probably)

Road position does not look great, though I expect you'd get dog's abuse if you rode defensively.

If it was of I'd try amother road if that were possible.

Did you check the cars' seas windows for stw stickers?

project you've got a bit of a cheek complaining about the car drivers when you cycled along that road for over 2 minutes all the time looking over you shoulder. Look where you're going man.

I never signal drivers when it is or isn't safe to overtake, it's just another potential liability for me if something goes wrong.

If that was me, I'd be looking to avoid that section of road at that time of day. I'm assuming that as you chose to stop to turn the camera on and then again to turn it off when finished you were expecting trouble. And that's the sort of road where even I would be riding more defensively/annoyingly.

Just because you can (ride your bike on that section), doesn't mean you should but I've got in trouble for saying that before around here! There's only ever one proper looser in a bike/motor vehicle interface.

The law says you shouldn't stop (park) when there's double white lines, so the other guy should have been "done".

Which law is that, then? Are you thinking of double yellows?

[i]New round here?[/i]

Good point. Well made. 😀

Which law is that, then? Are you thinking of double yellows?

Which law is that, then? Are you thinking of double yellows?

No, double white. Richpips got a ticket for it. will look up the referenc at lunch if I get chance. and bear in mind, it's double white lines in the centre, regardless of whether they're solid, so it applies to hatchings as well.

Which law is that, then? Are you thinking of double yellows?

It's a "must not", so there is a law against it - one of the ones listed at the bottom of that rule presumably.

Just how difficult is it to go and check the HC? Took me all of about 1 minute to find that.

I still want to know what the speed limit is

I still want to know what the speed limit is

Kenny Senior - Member
project you've got a bit of a cheek complaining about the car drivers when you cycled along that road for over 2 minutes all the time looking over you shoulder. Look where you're going man.

POSTED 23 MINUTES AGO #

It was filmed from a rear facing camera.

As for road positioning, it was an uphill section,the time was about 4.30pm, and usually a bit quieter.

Oh and its also part of route 56, of the National cycle network, and i cycle it about 3 times a month, and it was quite a surprise to me to see how close Pickfords, the volkswagen, and the vectra came.

TJ, its a 30mph road, big red custard signs painted on the road, along with signs and sharks teeth on the approaches, seems as if some motorists didnt want to obey the rules.

Oh and [b]I WAS WEARING A HELMET.[/b]

there's neither street lighting nor repeater signs, so I'd say NSL?

edit : musta missed the limit painted on the road

He passes a 30 sign going the other way TJ, so at least some of it is residential.

Look, the first 2 or 3 seconds of that video look like an arse or a fanny or something!

taken from chapter 5 of the traffic signs manual referencing the tsrgd.
hth.

GENERAL

5.1 Double white lines (see figure 5-1) are used to
prohibit overtaking where visibility is restricted.
Drivers may cross the line nearer to them when it is
broken, but not when it is continuous. The legal
requirements conveyed by the markings are specified
in regulation 26(2) of the Traffic Signs Regulations
and General Directions 2002 as follows:

(a) no vehicle shall stop on any length of road
along which the marking has been placed
at any point between the ends of the
marking, and

(b) every vehicle proceeding on any length of
road along which the marking has been so
placed that, as viewed in the direction of
travel of the vehicle, a continuous line is on
the left of a broken line or of another
continuous line, shall be so driven as to
keep the first-mentioned continuous line
on the right hand or off side of the vehicle.

Exceptions are set out in regulations 26(4), 26(5)
and 26(6), which list the circumstances in which
vehicles are permitted to stop on a road marked with
double white lines and the occasions when vehicles
may cross a continuous line. The restriction on
stopping in (a) above applies whether the line closest
to the vehicle is continuous-or broken. However, on a
road with more than one traffic lane in each direction
the stopping restriction does not apply. A separate
traffic regulation order would therefore be necessary
to prohibit waiting or loading on, for example, an
urban four-lane road (see para 5.26).

TJ, its a 30mph road, big red custard signs painted on the road, along with signs and sharks teeth on the approaches, seems as if some motorists didnt want to obey the rules.

In that case middle of the lane and make the cars wait until there was no traffic the other way / you could see the road was clear then tuck in and wave 'em past. The truck (at least) would have had me sitting up and staring them down. No way would I be tucked into the kerb like that.

Get on to sustrans / whoever is in charge of the cycle route about it as well - no way should a road like that be a part of a national cycle route when its so dangerous / carcentric. Its asking for cyclists to get killed

Needs the centre line moved over so a cycle lane can be put on the uphill side. Not needed downhill

Deadlylarcy, thats my jhand between finger and thumb.

Phew 🙂

Re waving a driver past...

I absolutely never do this as a cyclist, nor as a driver do I ever follow a wave from as cyclist.

As a driver you simply cannot rely on someone else's idea of what looks safe. Nor as a cyclist can you assume any level of competence or urgency from the motorist.

If you wave Mr Magoo past you and he pootles past slowly and a boy racer suddenly appears and comes towards the pair of you at breakneck speed, everyone is screwed and - importantly - you have contributed to any resulting accident.

Equally, as the driver it should be obvious that overtaking when you have not seen a clear road with your own eyes is dangerously negligent.

That's one of the things I was told on a driving course. Let people out/across whatever, but just wait for them, never flash them, because if they cock it up they'll try and blame you!

The arterial route that runs through my area is popular with cyclists. Along with tourists, locals and HGV's that the road struggles to cope with, it can be a nightmare. If I'm behind cars that are overtaking cyclists on solid whites, all I'm really interested in is whether it's safe in respect of the view ahead, any oncoming traffic and giving the bicycle appropriate clearance, not whether the bicycle is doing 9, 10 or 15mph.

[i]In that case middle of the lane and make the cars wait [/i]

Thats what I love, a bit of practical advice!

Rule 240 Highway Code, clause 6.

Oink. Good spot.

Just how difficult is it to go and check the HC? Took me all of about 1 minute to find that.

Ordinarily a fair point, however I was running out of the door to make an appointment and didn't have any minutes.

Does any one else signal the drivers as to when it's safe/dangerous to overtake?

I generally wave a thanks if a driver is courteous though.

I signal overtake manoevres when safe to do so , after checking the mirrors, just incase a power ranger decides to overtake.

I do sometimes but it *should* be a pointless exercise as a driver should only ever make a maneuvure when THEY know it is safe to do so, not when they have been waved past by another road user.

Agreed. As a driver I wouldn't go just because I was waved on, but it is good to know the cyclist is aware of you and happy for you to pass.

cupra - Member
I never signal drivers when it is or isn't safe to overtake, it's just another potential liability for me if something goes wrong.

In a legal sense, utter nonsense. It's them overtaking you, not you forcing them to do so.

There are times when you have a better view of the road than a car sat behind you - seems OK to me to wave them on.

it is good to know the cyclist is aware of you and happy for you to pass.

Was there not a case a few year back where the police prosecuted a cyclist because he was [i]making [/i]motorists cross the white lines in order to pass him.

Yep, Daniel Caddon. He won on appeal. (with help from the CTC and the Cyclists' Defence Fund)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/shropshire/6303427.stm

On twisty country lanes, I'll help a motorist by maybe putting a "stop" hand out if I can see a car approaching that they can't - as aracer says, it just helps things along. More often than not, I let them decide when to overtake though - I'm not sure I could live with the consequences of waving somebody on and seeing them have a head-on a few seconds later. If it's their decision to go, then so be it.

I signal overtake manoevres when safe to do so , after checking the mirrors, just incase a power ranger decides to overtake.

So anyway, I indignantly sounded my horn (which she seemed to completely fail to notice) and then my two girls (who were in the back) started to do press and 'peep' sounds for the next 10 minutes which made my day 🙂

MF - I thought you knew the Highway Code?

I never signal drivers when it is or isn't safe to overtake, it's just another potential liability for me if something goes wrong.

I agree but I will signal stop if someone is about to overtake and I can see a car coming the other way. Had a few near misses just recently when a car has nearly clipped my bars. Didn't realise there was a 10mph limit though, got a dodgy bit of road not far from my house and I cane it along there for fear of holding traffic up but also getting side swiped

I live 2 minutes away and travel on that road regularly. That stretch is 30 but prior is national speed limit.
Nobody should have overtaken you from 1:30 until you had cleared the corner then visibility is OK.
The van that overtook you (and several cars) did so on a blind bend.

edit: as others have said you invited them a little. They were all idiots however you should have been further out IMO.

MF - I thought you knew the Highway Code?

In a legal sense, utter nonsense. It's them overtaking you, not you forcing them to do so.

I was under the impression directing traffic was an offense.

Yes, it's legal, provided you is slow:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070306

"You may cross the line if necessary, provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10 mph (16 km/h) or less."

The other is 'when directed to do so by a police officer'

I know this as I was cautioned for a number of late night driving offences by the dibble - were several instances of 'curve' smoothing over doubles..

The policeman in the marked car (he had been behind me for 5 miles)

He asked if there had been any slow cyclists or policeman on the road in order than I had been ok or required to cross the doubel whitelines...

"In a legal sense, utter nonsense. It's them overtaking you, not you forcing them to do so."

I recall watching a TV programme which covered a similar scenario and the police did state that by indicating (in that case it was flashing a car waiting to pull out of a junction) you would be partially responsible for any accident resulting from the other driver proceeding on your suggestion.

And TBH I interpret flashed lights only as "I cede my priority", not as "it's safe to proceed" - which the "safe to pass" wave from a cyclist clearly is.

Downhill near me, pretty quick, limit varies 50/40/30 solid double white lines I'll be doing atleast 30 more like 40 on the faster parts, still get overtaken, even in the 30 zone while "taking the lane"

I may well avoid that stretch of road during busier times, as ive said before a rear facing camera shows a lot of ignorance by car drivers.

I'll be doing atleast 30 more like 40 on the faster parts, still get overtaken, even in the 30 zone while "taking the lane"

I recall watching a TV programme which covered a similar scenario and the police did state that by indicating (in that case it was flashing a car waiting to pull out of a junction) you would be partially responsible for any accident resulting from the other driver proceeding on your suggestion.

They're wrong, sorry.

Flashing headlights has one meaning, which is to alert other road users to your presence. Indicators signal an intention to manoeuvre, you should never act solely on information gleaned from them. That's basic, driving lesson stuff.

Interesting points chaps...I'd thought one was ALWAYS responsible for one's own actions only.

For instance I've heard that if you pull out of a side road as a car is pulling up and indicating to turn into it (making your path clear), it's your fault if he doesn't turn ap indicated and you collide.

For instance I've heard that if you pull out of a side road as a car is pulling up and indicating to turn into it (making your path clear), it's your fault if he doesn't turn ap indicated and you collide.

cynic-al - Member

For instance I've heard that if you pull out of a side road as a car is pulling up and indicating to turn into it (making your path clear), it's your fault if he doesn't turn ap indicated and you collide.

I can see both points...but is there an expert that could answer definitively? Does fly in the face of what Bez etc said a bit...

"They're wrong, sorry."

Wrong or not, it was plod saying it and if there's an accident they're the ones that write the report and do the prosecution thing.

I was surprised too, don't get me wrong (which is why it sticks in my mind), and I too thought you were always solely responsible for your own actions, and I was taught to take indication with a pinch of salt, and I always do. But it seems it's not that simple (or sensible).

Wrong or not, it was plod saying it and if there's an accident they're the ones that write the report and do the prosecution thing

Fair enough - though in the absence of anything better I'll take plod's word over that of an Internet forum in this case ;). I guess we'd all certainly be happy for someone who's at least familiar with their onions to come along and put us all straight.

I ride on that section of road fairly frequently, particularly with my teenagers as part of our 'Wirral Loop'.
We basically blast it as quickly as we can, 'cos it scares the living death out of us!