So I have this joist

Is there any chance of being able to say "it was like that when we moved in" and it be believable?

Just an indemnity as far as I recall. As long as you don't go and notify the council as that then voids the indemnity.

Load bearing wall?

do you mean a floor/ceiling joist, or a supporting beam?
If you replaced a single joist as part of a floor system then like for like is fine.
If you added a beam in place of a load bearing wall, then yes, sounds like you might have an issue and that'll need structural signoff in any jurisdiction

The joist replaced w wall in between the kitchen and lounge and supports the bathroom upstairs. Was it a load bearing wall? There was no wall that continued above this wall, just floor.

The issue will be when you try to sell it, any surveyor will want a sign off that's it's structurally sound.  If none exists it's not mortgagable.

I m doing similar ATM, structural engineer specced the supports, building control check the work.  It was only c1k in fees to do it properly.

Mine had the supports supporting the rafters as they have a long span, no way I d touch them and sleep underneath soundly.

Sounds like a load bearing wall has been replaced by a steel beam.

In the ideal world you would need building control sign off for this.  I've just bought a house which had has had work done to it with no sign off.  However, I'm a structural engineer and there are no issues with what's been done. We're going to mod the house further and I'm going to put some calcs in to cover these works at the same time ;-).

Some buyers can be difficult about not having building control sign off, my partners were, and I had to do some rough numbers for her old house then walk round with their builder before they were happy.

I would get something in place sooner rather than later so that if / when you come to sell you are covered.

This;

Just an indemnity as far as I recall. As long as you don’t go and notify the council as that then voids the indemnity.

When you come to sell, the solicitor can often arrange. We used to do it but premiums were too small for the work involved.

last one we did (2021) was £180 based on the total property value of £400k (ish).

Indemnity policies only cover the cost of remedial works should building control get involved and ask the buyer to do them. How long ago was the joist installed? If it has been more than a few years, and there are no signs that the joist is failing, it's unlikely that BC would be interested. So it's a policy against something that is very unlikely to happen.

If you are very open with the structural surveyor, then obviously they will look for any signs (cracking etc) that the work hasn't been done properly, but they wouldn't be able to go beneath the surface to check the specs of the beam.

Belt and braces approach would be to apply for regularisation from BC. While the length of time with no problems suggests it's been done OK, it's possible that, in the absence of any drawings or calcs, they would want to reveal the beam, just to check that there actually is a beam. Do you have any evidence that it was installed - receipts for materials etc? It would be their fee plus costs of patch plastering a couple of small holes, or lifting boards above.

The other option is to say nowt, or say the work was done before you bought the place. But that involves lying during the conveyancing process.

Thanks for all the answers, however scary doom-mongering or optimistic. I'd love the answer to be "indemnity policy" but as suggested that requires the buyer and their lender to accept it.

I've been in touch with the original builder and there's no paper trail or receipts.

I'm going to make some enquiries about Regularisation (obv not direct to the council). I don't mind having to expose the beam so that it can be inspected. Inspecting the footings is obviously trickier and messier.

It's worth spending the money to have had it done properly (I just at the time didn't think the builder was cutting corners to save time and money). Don't want to be in the situation that a chain falls through because of this. I'm just uneducated as to what does need to be done and who & how to have got it done!

Thanks all

The joist is sound.

How do you know?!  Is it wood or steel?

Replaced an internal wall. However when we had the building work done I was a bit green around the ears and I don’t have any documents regarding building regs, certs or any inspection – it’s very unlikely any of this was done. “ah yeah I know the size for that joist” might have been some words.

Did the builder actually call it a joist (when it's actually a lintel)? That's a bit scary!
What's also rather worrying is that there's zero paper trail. When was this done?  The builder should be keeping receipts/records for materials for something like 6 years to satisfy HMRC.

Inspecting the footings is obviously trickier and messier.

It's much more likely that a building inspector would want to know the size of the lintel used and what it's bearing on - which would probably involve exposing the ends.

Was it a load bearing wall? There was no wall that continued above this wall, just floor.

IANA Structural Engineer (or builder), but that sounds to me like it wasn't a load bearing wall?  Could the builder have simply installed an extra floor joist to fill the gap left by removal of the top of the wall?  (Assuming the joists are parallel to the ex-wall, not perpendicular, of course.) Would that explain the joist/lintel confusion?

Unfortunately, I imagine that the solution remains, 'remove plaster or lift floor boards and inspect.'

I'm calling it a joist because I'm neither a builder nor a structural engineer. The builder actually just called it a "steel" tbh. I'm saying it's sound because the floor above is stiff and there are no cracks in the walls or ceilings nearby so I've judged it hasn't flexed or moved.

This was over 6 years ago and the builder says that in the meantime he's gone limited, which is his excuse for not being able to track down a receipt or paper trail.

Yes I'm expecting that an inspector would want to see the calcs, see that the steel is that size or more, and to see the footings.

Just not sure now how to get started with this now - don't want to involve the council yet. I can find an engineer and get the calcs, even then check the lintel myself (in case oh shoot it's under size...) before then excavating the footings and calling the inspector in?

I have done this, building inspector had a look at the beam as I'd exposed it and the bearings, in this case 3 courses of engineering bricks. Didn't want calcs as it was clear the beam was over sized and certainly didn't expect excavation of foundations. That would be pretty nuclear in my opinion. Give building control a call, they're not there to punish you or catch you out. I paid a small fee for inspection and had it retrospectively regulised.

IANA Structural Engineer (or builder), but that sounds to me like it wasn’t a load bearing wall?

Any joists that were sitting on the wall might have an opinion on that.

And potentially walls can be ties and props for other walls. If you have a horizontal load like wind or an unbraced rafter roof you don't want to take the wall out that counters it.

Its probably fine. But why not just get ot checked?