[Closed] So I got stopped by the Rozzers this morning

Where was this? I'm totally shit faced and have to drive from Sheffield this afternoon 🙂

Random stop and search breath tests
😬

Being breathalyzed? How fashionably retro 🙂

I'm all for it.  Did they say how many they've pulled ?

Being stopped by the rozzers is better than getting picked up by the fuzz.

I’m all for it. Did they say how many they’ve pulled ?

100%. I wouldn't object to a total road block with everyone having to be tested.

I didn't ask how many they had stopped however there was a steady stream of customers...

A very timely reminder.

I remember the night I was stopped and breathalysed 3 times. I worked in a large pub restaurant and it was new year's eve. Finished work and stank of beer as a cask of Timothy Taylors Landlord had decided to deposit its hoppy delights all over me! First stop was as soon as I pulled out of the pub car park. Not unexpected and passed with flying colours. 2nd stop was on the main road around Gateshead as I headed for Newcastle. Miserable tw4t of a copper. Started reading me the riot act - driving smelling of beer on new years eve etc etc. Passed with zero reading again. 3rd stop was on Walker Road heading to pick Mrs Fazzini up from her friends house. By this point I was a) busting for a wee; b) understanding the need to check drivers but getting a bit fed up; c) did I mention needing a wee? Anyway copper #3 was hilarious,we had a jolly giggle at getting breathalysed 3 times in 20 minutes. And he even escorted me to the address I was heading to, as there'd been several incidents in that area that evening!

I thought they were supposed to have reasonable grounds rather than random stops

I thought they were supposed to have reasonable grounds rather than random stops

Quite happy for random vehicle stops, whether it's for breath tests, vehicle defects, insurance, MOT, vehicle defects, whatever.

Having marshalled a closed road event this morning, I'm not feeling very pro-driver!

Reasonable grounds would be A: It’s Christmas. B: You’re driving a car.

Seems fair enough to me.

They do random stops all the time - good thing too. Strange how any sort of stop makes us instantly nervous 😄

Don't hgv's get random checks too?

I think people don't realise that if they have 8 pints up until midnight, they'd still be over the limit until around 4pm the next day.

If you are only just over the limit and claim to have eaten several packs of salt and vinegar crisps you can claim you escaped the breathalyser on random internet posts*.

*From a few years back where a local **** was telling everyone who didn't punch him that he drove better after a few beers and kept a pack of crisps on the passenger seat to get away with drink driving. Posted the same on social media bragging about it including a picture of him and his car outside the pub. Busted as he left the carpark as 3 or 4 people in the pub had all called to police to report him.

Reasonable grounds would be A: It’s Christmas. B: You’re driving a car.

Seems fair enough to me.

Those wouldn’t be adequate grounds for the court.

They can random stop for any reason. Requiring a breath test needs a lawful basis, but many forces ask for voluntary tests at this time of year. If they do it wrong they create potential loophole mess. Would be better if there was a proper process for random testing.

They do total roadblocks in Australia, usually on the edges of towns to catch people heading home after drinking. All for it if it gets idiots off the road, though I don't think we'd get away with it in the UK.

When I lived in Oz/Mid-North NSW the cops radio ads made a specific point of knowing and reciting all the back roads routes from the popular drinking spots.

Victoria only place I’ve ever been breathalysed and that was totally random stop.

Got breathalysed in a small French village shortly after leaving a restaurant that was on the outskirts.They were stopping everyone. Very polite and pleasant to me (and I was clean)  but the car driver who was stopped just ahead of me was out of the car and they were giving him a really hard time.

@poly. Yes it was very much phrased as a choice.

I assume of someone showed overt signs of being over the limit (smell of booze in their breath, slurring whilst having the friendly chat about what your plans are for the day etc) then they could demand one?

Would refusing to voluntarily give a sample be reasonable grounds for them to suspect you were over the limit?

I had no reason to be difficult and try and be an armchair lawyer though so just puffed away anyway 🙂

Police in the area I live in Brussels will do the stop everyone and breathalyse them and that includes cycles.  They post the results up on their fb page so everyone knows it has happened and how many failed

Limits on a bike are the same as for a car.

...The reason I spent a few bob on a good breathylser.... Worth every penny the morning after before I go near a vehicle.

They do total roadblocks in Australia

That's how they caught David Grohl...

Danny - quick answer because page crashes when I try to write a proper one. Yes lots of genuine reasons to suspect (but refusing a voluntary test isn’t one of them!).

I assume of someone showed overt signs of being over the limit (smell of booze in their breath, slurring whilst having the friendly chat about what your plans are for the day etc) then they could demand one?

That becomes reasonable grounds

Would refusing to voluntarily give a sample be reasonable grounds for them to suspect you were over the limit?

I'd have thought so, and refusing then is a separate offence.

I'm sure Mr Loophole could find a way to get it dropped though.

@poly - interesting. I had no need to refuse so didn’t but I would imagine our friendly chat would have been prolonged had I refused and they started looking for reasonable grounds :). And yes, it is a bit daft. I’d have no issues with the law being changed to require them rather than request them.

I got the feeling they no more wanted to be there than I did so wasn’t going to wind them up at all. That said I was slightly conscious they had twigged my very broken near-side mirror (because they pointed it out to me but were apparently ok leaving it at that) so decided to keep things amiable 🙂

I think people don’t realise that if they have 8 pints up until midnight, they’d still be over the limit until around 4pm the next day.

Isn’t it 1 hour per unit + 2 hours after you have stopped drinking as a rough guide.

Isn’t it 1 hour per unit + 2 hours after you have stopped drinking as a rough guide.

So, at roughly 2.5 units per pint of 4.5 ABV, that’s 20+2 hours. If you stop drinking at midnight that roughly 10 pm the following day. At 2 units at 3.8 ABV that’s 18 hrs, so 6pm?
Edit: I had one of my 18yr old students get banned after testing positive the afternoon following a birthday party bender.

Isn’t it 1 hour per unit + 2 hours after you have stopped drinking as a rough guide

Never saw the additional 2 hours just 1 unit per hour. But other variables such as body size mean there is really isn't a standard.
I'll catch the train New Year's Eve.

I have never tried it with a breathalyser but isn’t it better to be safe than sorry? Perhaps one of the medical people could clarify. Also not just the alcohol, you will be tired after drinking late.

Edit: I wouldn’t drink 3 strong ales eg McEwans Champion and drive before lunch the next day.

I think people don’t realise that if they have 8 pints up until midnight, they’d still be over the limit until around 4pm the next day.

Nonsense. I drink a lot and breathalyse myself in a morning if I'm driving.

Even after a heavy session, it'll be zero by mid morning

As Caher said body size is a factor.

Edit - removed ‘major’

Another one here who has no issue whatsoever with the Police being allowed to pull you over for random checks. Have been breathalysed a few times over the years, mostly around christmas as I used to work early shifts so was a prime target for 'the morning after' issues. Every time it's been fine and have had friendly officers.

Don’t hgv’s get random checks too?

By the DVSA (formerly VOSA), yes. The police tend to leave them alone. Most drivers can go their whole careers without ever being stopped whereas I've been stopped twice now, the first one was on my 3rd day of ever driving one! The first one was a random where they pulled over whatever came round the corner but the second one was due to the company I was driving for (agency, first day there). They explained the company had been caught with multiple offences by them and their drivers and was on their 'watch' list, didn't go back there to work after that week as you could see the dodgy practices every day.

#Rule1 I’m not trying to be a dick about this, but………

TBH I’d rather the law allow the Police to randomly stop and breathalyse anyone at any time, regardless of reasonable grounds.

I want fewer drunk drivers on the road rather than drunks looking for a loophole. If random stops = fewer drink driving incidents, then the Police should be allowed a free reign.

TBH I’d rather the law allow the Police to randomly stop and breathalyse anyone at any time, regardless of reasonable grounds.

I want fewer drunk drivers on the road rather than drunks looking for a loophole. If random stops = fewer drink driving incidents, then the Police should be allowed a free reign.

I guess the problem is when police are given such powers they have never really used them in a balanced way. Just look at the numbers (specifically demographic) of covid fines and stop and searches.

As a teen in the 60’s I got stopped in Wakefield at a roadblock / random test. (Might have been “walk the white line or say “Aberystwyth” - did they even have breath tests in ‘63)
The copper was a school friend.
He put his head in the car and said “never ever drive again after having a drink” and waved me through.
What a lesson.
I never have.
Ever.
I get that this lucky escape would not have affected all drivers in the same way. (Katie Price springs to mind).
Be safe you lot. A car is a bloody dangerous weapon.

Back to the OP, why “Luckily”, if you haven’t had a drop of booze in over 3 years??

So other than being drunk....what grounds would anyone. Have for refusing a breath test while driving a car other than being a capital unt.

Should be a condition of getting your driving license that you agree to it.

@desperatebicycle - it was tongue in cheek although I was still really nervous when blowing even though I knew it couldn’t be anything other than zero.

@trail_rat - I can think of a few bunts who would happily be a total arse about these things and refuse one just because they legally could.

can think of a few bunts who would happily be a total arse about these things and refuse one just because they legally could.

See my original caveat.

We grassed someone up on Christmas Eve who was all over the place, they were hitting curbs and on the other side of the road in Kingston uT. Emailed their registration to Crime-Stoppers. Idiot.

The police have the power to randomly stop vehicles, however they cannot perform random preliminary breath tests. They can only make a requirement that a person comply with a preliminary breath test if they reasonably suspect that:-

a person is driving, attempting to drive or is in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place while under the influence of alcohol
a person has been driving, attempting to drive or has been in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place while under the influence of alcohol
a person is or has been driving, attempting to drive or has been in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place and has committed a moving road traffic offence

bfw
Full Member

We grassed someone up on Christmas Eve who was all over the place, they were hitting curbs and on the other side of the road in Kingston uT. Emailed their registration to Crime-Stoppers. Idiot

That’s a 999 job isn’t it? Someone like that needs taken off the road right away, not after an email

More Police powers are directly correlated to more Police abuse of powers.

The above is a basic fact...

We have a robust set of Laws and Powers for Police Authorities they simply need to do their jobsand enforce appropriately.

I sight the new Police Act.

Wrong thread 🤦‍♂️

Should be a condition of getting your driving license that you agree to it.

Well, seeing as it's illegal to refuse (immediate arrest), it kind of is.

So, at roughly 2.5 units per pint of 4.5 ABV, that’s 20+2 hours

This seems to assume that your body doesn't start processing the alcohol until you go to bed.....

Should be a condition of getting your driving license that you agree to it.

Well, seeing as it’s illegal to refuse (immediate arrest), it kind of is.

Too wooly. Too many "loopholes"

Should be able 100% stoppage no questions asked blow in the bag road user...... Judging by the amount of people hitting the brakes hard today when other cars come towards them....id be suspicious of a high majority of people on the road today ....

@Twodogs - as far as I’m aware it is a rough guide to help keep everyone safe rather than exact medical science. I think therefore it errs very much on the side of caution. Better to arrive late than in a hedge after killing someone.

I do have a problem with the current approach to stopping and testing. It's too bloody soft and kind.
This would be another activity for my proposed motoring police along with nabbing dangerous driving, speeding, stupid parking and driving anything German! Self funded by the fines which would start at £1000 for failing to indicate.

Apocryphal tale of a session in a village pub. Someone called the rozzers to suggest that someone had indicated they were planning to drive home that night, so the police parked up a little bit from the pub and waited. Sure enough the old boy staggers out from the pub, weaves across the car park, drops his keys trying to get them into the lock, falls into the front seat, stalls twice and eventually pulls out of the car park and kangaroos off down the road.

The police follow for a short distance and then pull him over for the questions and breathalyser that blows well beneath the limit. Turns out, he was just a very good actor.

Meanwhile, the rest of the pub has emptied and gone the other way home safe in the knowledge that the only local copper is tied up elsewhere.......

Being stopped by the rozzers is better than getting picked up by the fuzz.

LOL 🙂

Very polite and pleasant to me (and I was clean) but the car driver who was stopped just ahead of me was out of the car and they were giving him a really hard time.

It's like that on the continent. All very good if as you say are good,but mess up and be found drunk in charge they hammer you because over there its seen as being something you consciously, deliberately set about to do, knowing it is illegal.

UK cops just treat you like that from the off. Like they're trying to goad some criminal offence out you, and have you marked down as a potential troublemaker.

But other variables such as body size mean there is really isn’t a standard.

There is. And back-calculation to show you were over the limit at a previous time when not tested is a legitimate avenue of prosecution. Alcohol elimination is very predicable because the levels are so high relative to medicines (gram doses rather than milligrams).

I would have truely random stops - roadblocks in a aussie style.  No sympathy.  I think it should be mandatory jail - its one of the few times I think a short jail sentence might act as a deterrent.

Every time it’s been fine and have had friendly officers.

I find it’s one benefit of being nice and polite to them *

* although being quiet and respectful can backfire on you at times, like when myself and 3 mates were arrested for suspected drug dealing back in our twenties. Long story short , I was the only one strip searched as they thought I was guilty as I was too quiet 🤨.
Mind you the reason for the stop was , and I quote “ because 3 white kids in a flash car with a black man driving always looks suspicious “.
I doubt they would get away with that these days

Powers to require a preliminary screening breath test:

Suspicion that you’ve been drinking (this can be manner of driving, a third party report, your behaviour following being stopped for some other reason).

After commiting a moving road traffic offence.

If you’ve been involved in a RTC.

Failure to cooperate with a preliminary roadside test is an offence, for which you can be arrested. This is distinct from the station based failure or refusal to provide a specimen.

If you’re asked to provide a sample of breath as part of a drink drive campaign then refusal to take part is not an offence (unless of course one of the above reasons exist).

It’s a good opportunity for officers to engage with the public and give a bit of advice, have a chat and even a bit of light hearted bants. Over the many years and campaigns I did this I never had one refusal, and virtually everyone had a bit of a laugh.

I would have truely random stops – roadblocks in a aussie style.

I wouldn't. There's too many thugs in our police services itching for an excuse to kick-off. Family experience is of several officers in Suffolk trying to goad my lad and his mates (all white, middle class and late teens) at an inspection facility after a routine stop.

goad my lad and his mates (all white, middle class and late teens) at an inspection facility after a routine stop.

Goad them into what exactly.....

NZ weekend inspections are little more than a stop. Blow into the tube and move on. You don't even get out the car ..... Or at least you didn't

can think of a few bunts who would happily be a total arse about these things and refuse one just because they legally could.

So you're saying that you believe it's acceptable for those trusted to enforce the law to be above it themselves?

I'm all for the police keeping the roads safer, but they have to follow process or it's anarchy. If the process is inadequate then we change the process, we don't just ignore it because it's inconvenient.

So you’re saying that you believe it’s acceptable for those trusted to enforce the law to be above it themselves?

Did you quote the wrong post before asking your question ?

Not yet this year, but most others. They do seem to struggle with the idea that some people don't drink and think I'm taking the urine about not drinking since 2001.

Also used to get routinely stopped when I had a white van and heading home to mid Wales from South Wales at night. Anything after half 11 was pretty much a guaranteed stop at Brecon.

Would refusing to voluntarily give a sample be reasonable grounds for them to suspect you were over the limit?

Yes, a lad I know has been arrested more than once for refusing a breathalyser. He's actually been jailed twice for drink driving offences (and caught and fined on several other occasions) so they had good reason to pull him over, he was warned the last time that he faced an indeterminate sentence should he be convicted again

Did you quote the wrong post before asking your question ?

Quite possibly, actually.

NZ weekend inspections are little more than a stop.

Therein is the difference having watched the Highway Patrol programmes the NZ Police appear to be class above a lot of other forces seen on the box. Invariably polite despite a lot of provocation whereas on West Island they're a whole lot more thuggish on TV.

If random stops = fewer drink driving incidents, then the Police should be allowed a free reign.

I think the important IF at the start of your sentence may be the issue. Presumably if chief constables believed this was the most effective way to deal with this they’d have convinced a Home Secretary at some point in the last 34 yrs it was worth an amendment to the road traffic act to permit random breath tests.

In terms of modern policing it takes a lot of resources to set up proper “road block” random stops. The vast majority of people who are inconvenienced are the law abiding public. Meanwhile some guy is battering his wife and nobody is responding, and the drunk driver is sneaking round the backroads to avoid the high profile / high volume road block, white van gammon is harassing cyclists, sober boy racers are doing donuts in car parks, and tired drivers are half asleep but sober. Random is good to create the fear of getting caught in the normally compliant who might be tempted to take a chance, but I don’t think it’s necessarily the best way to resource road policing for maximum safety.

I actually suspect that cannabis impaired drivers are actually a bigger issue - same logic should apply - but roadside drugs tests are fairly slow (10 mins?) - is it reasonable to delay those who raise no suspicion? Do we create more speeders with people trying to catch up lost time the more people we stop?

I suspect if a random (non breath) stop doesn’t create a reason to suspect drinking (smell, answers to questions, slurred speech) and identifies no moving traffic offences the odds of the breath test being positive are low and that time would be better spent on the next car coming along the road (who as well as drink driving might be uninsured, no mot, invalid license, dodgy tyres etc) but on all but the quietest roads whilst they are spending time having a nice chat to people like the OP other drivers are passing unhindered.

It's fair to say, spliffed up drivers are much more common than they used to be. It's now a frequent occurrence to be passed by a smelly car rather than rare to never which it used to be. Who knows what else people are taking and driving, stuff that doesn't leave a distinctive pungent trail...?

"So other than being drunk….what grounds would anyone. Have for refusing a breath test while driving a car other than being a capital unt."

Because many people have had experiences of plod where where the officer involved has been a Capital Unt themselves. It only takes a couple of bad experiences with them to not feel inclined to co-operate...

Is that where plod turns up drunk for his shift in the motor pool?

the Police should be allowed a free reign.

Beautiful slip.

That’s a 999 job isn’t it? Someone like that needs taken off the road right away, not after an email

Agreed. Sending an email is pointless. I phoned the police an hour after getting hit by a drunk driver and they said there was no point whatsoever in visiting him as he could just claim to have drunk loads in that last hour.

i'd wager most "voluntary" breath tests are submitted to as the person doesnt honestly believe that refusal is an option.
everyone knows damn well that refusing a breath test will see you arrested and most will assume that despite it being a 'random' stop & test, refusal or even hesitation will simply see the copper invent a reason.

similarly im not keen to submit to a drugs swab or random dna sample.

some of you on here would vote for random covid tests, likely followed by roadside execution.

it wasnt really a baby robins face - they just made that bit up to scare you.

‘Not to worry sir. When did you last have a drink?’

‘9 August 2018’

OP there's your problem. He probably thought you were a recovering alcoholic who might have slipped off the wagon 😉

i’d wager most “voluntary” breath tests are submitted to as the person doesnt honestly believe that refusal is an option.
everyone knows damn well that refusing a breath test will see you arrested and most will assume that despite it being a ‘random’ stop & test, refusal or even hesitation will simply see the copper invent a reason.

similarly im not keen to submit to a drugs swab or random dna sample.

some of you on here would vote for random covid tests, likely followed by roadside execution.

it wasnt really a baby robins face – they just made that bit up to scare you.

I don't think I'd agree to one either really. Likewise, if a police officer knocked on my door and said "excuse me sir, we're checking the local area for crime, you won't mind if we have a look round your house to see if  any crimes are being committed?" I'd ask for the warrant. You don't have to be a dick about it. But I think in general, power should be resisted as it's a thin edge of the wedge thing. Once one small thing gets normalised it's used as justification for the next higher attack on liberties. There's nothing wrong with standing up for your rights. Just don't be a dick. I've only ever had positive dealings with the police, but I'm aware that that's not the case for everyone.

Having had an apprentice at work killed the week before his 18th birthday as a result of drink driving, I don’t think there should be any excuse whatsoever. The limit in England should be reduced to match Scotland.

I’ve been driving for 20 years, and only ever been breathalysed once which was visiting an event in Finland. Guaranteed that if I was to ever take a chance I’d be stopped before the end of my street though.

After colliding with a mahoosive SUV on a blind bend (bicycle vs car) and gaining my pilots licence, I was asked to take a breath test in the back of an ambulance whilst being tended to by Paramedics. By one of 'those' officers - officious, cynical and verging on plain rude.

I knew I wasn't compelled to blow, told him so and that I would by my choice to rule out any speculation that alcohol was a contributing factor. After blowing negative, the Policeman continued to be unnecessarily unpleasant (aka 'a dick'). I asked the Paramedic if I had to put up with him so she kicked him out.

knew I wasn’t compelled to blow, told him so and that I would by my choice

Despite being involved in a road traffic colision....which is infact one of the legit reasons to brealyse someone.

Sounds like he thought you had a bit of a 'tude

What does gaining your pilots license have to do with crashing your bike into a SUV?
If you crashed your plane, and survived you'd also have to take a breath test, and if you refused you'd be arrested. I don't see what the big deal is.

I think he meant he went over the bars.

Despite being involved in a road traffic colision….which is infact one of the legit reasons to brealyse someone

Hmm. Not sure that's the case for a cyclist as we're not obliged to submit to a breath or a blood test afaiu? Anyone qualified care to comment?