[Closed] Snipers at Dallas BLM rally

These things go in cycles.

No bikes were injured.

Labeled an act of terrorism on the radio this morning.

Looks like they're using the chart again.

Yeah watching it alive atm.....another US shooting debacle. Automatic rifles in city centres = lots of dead people, although it's five Police so far.

<Trump> Well, if all the crowd had been armed, they could have shot the snipers...</Trump>

😐

Is it just me, or is the world rapidly descending down the shitter at the mo?

Does seem that way.

Is it just me, or is the world rapidly descending down the shitter at the mo?

Well it's raining today, so yes. Yes it is.

nah just people getting on their high horses making a lot of noise. I did wonder what the actual figures of people being killed by police in america were like. They focus on the fact he was black but in reality shouldnt the campaign be for the number of deaths of innocent people killed the police.

Unfortunately the figures for deaths of unarmed people in America by the police is more
revealing
[url= http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database ]Deaths by police in 2016[/url]

24 /566 were black unarmed
42 /566 were white unarmed

82 in total out of 566 were unarmed ( not saying that being unarmed means you are innocent)

So why is this a race issue when there is a wider picture other than the fact that people want to make it a race division?

And shooting police officers is not going to help the situation if you want them to stop shooting at you.

cheekymonkey888 - Member
nah just people getting on their high horses making a lot of noise

😯

Shooting and killing people is "getting on your high horse"? WTF?

I'm guessing cheeky monkey didn't read the link. 5 police officers shot dead at protest.

My post was in relation to the world in the shitter telling us how bad things are but in actual fact it could be worse and nothing has actually happened

Being armed also does not mean you're guilty of anything - it's legal to openly carry rifles in Texas, and Philando Castile was legally carrying when he was killed.

82 in total out of 566 were unarmed ( not saying that being unarmed means you are innocent)

So why is this a race issue when there is a wider picture other than the fact that people want to make it a race division?

Because black people comprise circa 5% of the US population and yet make up about 1/3rd of the victims of unarmed police killings?

Unfortunately Dallas PD are supposedly some of the good guys, and you'll note how professional they are by the way they calmly and in a very friendly manner arrested a black man with a camo t-shirt on - during the shooting - who was just carrying a weapon legally.

Whilst I see your point I think it should take into account %age of black / white / asian people in the area the shooting. I mean America is a big place and to take the whole is similar to saying the whole of Scotland wanted to stay in the EU.

Im not condoning what the poilce have done but equally I think the killing by the police is not just limited to black people as seen by the rallies and media interviews

No you shouldn't - If you localised the data that would mean that you could twist the statistics to suit your own agenda.

Surely it would be a more accurate representation taking into account the ethnicities in the local police force jurisdiction and therefore the actions taken by that police force rather than spreading it across the whole of the US.

I would hope that the police forces standards are the same throughout but clearly they are not and this should highlight it.

Surely it would be a more accurate representation taking into account the ethnicities in the local police force jurisdiction and therefore the actions taken by that police force rather than spreading it across the whole of the US.

I would hope that the police forces standards are the same throughout but clearly they are not and this should highlight it.

From what I gather from the data I saw a while back, the vast majority of them are also shot by white cops. No need to go into that much detail to see a pattern - it would just be an attempt in confirmation bias.

Using your logic, you could defend either side of the argument because police forces in predominantly white areas will shoot predominantly white people and vice versa, you need a large enough data set to see an overall trend.

Local police forces should be held to account eventually, but the message should be that nationally - American police departments have an issue and appear to be much more willing to kill unarmed black people.

true but then you would have to see how many black officers are in those forces equally how many white people were shot by black officers etc. We can paint the picture whichever way you like but in reality it is the unlawful killings I am concerned about whether they are black/ white/ asian by either white / black or asian police officers.

Well you are just denying the racism/issues behind blacks being something like 7.5-10 times more likely to be killed whilst unarmed than white people.

If you focus on just reducing the total numbers of unarmed deaths, then black people will still suffer from a higher likelihood of being killed.

A lot of black people would call your opinion "colourblind racism" and I would agree with them.

The man in the widely circulated photo has turned himself in, according to police, who are now calling him a “person of interest”. In a previous tweet with his photo, the department called him a “suspect”.

A man who said he was the person of interest’s brother told a local news station that his brother was innocent and that he handed his gun over to police when the shooting happened.

“100% it’s not him,” the brother said, adding, “With him having an AR-15 with him, I said ... ‘give your gun to the cop so there’s no misidentification.’”

He said his brother brought the gun to the protest because “it is his right. He was simply exercising his right.”

This piece that was in the Guardian about the shootings this morning kind of summed it all up for me.

The guy took an AR15 to an anti-violence march because it was his right. The very fact that you can buy such a weapon and carry it in the street shows what a f***ed up society you're living in.

It's terrible that there's been five police officers killed, absolutely horrendous, but it was only going to be a matter of time before something like this happened IMO with the number of unarmed people they've shot lately.

you'll note how professional they are by the way they calmly and in a very friendly manner

I saw one shaven headed bully throw a man to the ground because he was in his way.

For every nice cop who plays basketball with the youth, there's another who is an idiot with a gun and a mandate to shoot first and ask questions later.

I would prefer innocent people not to be killed by the police whatever their colour. I am worried that some Police officers may feel they can get away with killing people.

I'm not sure how calling someone racist whether colourblind or not really helps the cause?

Is it just me, or is the world rapidly descending down the shitter at the mo?

Not just you. I generally have 5 live on in the morning until Keevney has finished, and its safe to put 6 music on. But this morning, for the first time ever, as I was listening to the gunfire ringing out across Dallas, I turned the radio off. I've just had enough 'News'! I'm totally newsed out. No more. Its all just so unremittingly grim, negative, and generally shit.

It just seems that in so many ways the world is heading backwards at a rate of knots, to things I thought we'd left behind, but seem to loom larger and larger with each passing day! And with the Trumps, and Farages, and Boris's of the world all too happy to exploit the situation to sow division, paranoia and fear

Utterly utterly depressing 😥

Well theres only one thing for it. Heres a picture of Oolong the rabbit, with a pancake on his head.....

[img] [/img]

For every nice cop who plays basketball with the youth

[url= http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/shaquille-oneal-joins-florida-cop-surprise-kids-pickup-36498398 ]They even cheat at that[/url]

Terrible. Descent into further madness. Short term I think there will be no more demonstrations allowed as they have become a target. The police are only going to respond more forcefully. Hard to see where this is going to end.

. Short term I think there will be no more demonstrations allowed

Did anyone see the piece on BBC3 (I think) after the last police shooting, in Shitsville , Wherever a few months ago? It showed a large group of black guys who had effectively formed a militia. They were marching down the streets with full camo gear, body armour and assault rifles. When interviewed they said that they had to do this as they were effectively at war, and this was the only way to defend their communities.

It was absolutely gob-smacking. It looked like a mix of some weird dystopian post-apocolyptic future, with the racial politics of the 1950's thrown in for good measure.

But what it did suggest is that there was a certain inevitability to what has just happened. And this could well be the sign of far worse to come

The most depressing thing about this is that in the 'through the looking glass' world of the present American political system, Trump and the NRA and all the rest of the Fox News watching squirrel-eating rednecks will conspire to make this situation a hundred times worse, for their own short term and selfish reasons. And in a society already awash with heavy weaponry, all I can say is that I'm grateful that I live in a society (for now) where cooler heads tend to prevail.

The Americans still seem to be in denial about how absolutely insane their tooled up society looks to the rest of the world 😯

EDIT: Found it. This is madness

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p03t9g3j/ad/black-power-americas-armed-resistance ]Black Power. America's Armed Resistance[/url] Imagine living in a society where this is deemed necessary?!

I have to say that footage of the girlfriend videoing the Cop shooting her boyfriend through the window of their car was utterly appalling. He asked to see his licence and as he went to get it from his glove comp, he was shot FIVE times and died in his seat.

Jeez! 😯

Binners, did you see the preceding documentary about the KKK / white power?
the Black Power documentary fed off the back of that one and highlighted both sides of the ongoing and increasing tensions.
When there are reports of growing numbers of KKK members throughout the Midwest U.S, and when they are openly saying that their members work in the police force and important roles then it's only a matter of time until someones personal judgement blinds their professional judgement.

and as for guns, well that genies well out of the bottle and it'll be a struggle to get it back in that's for sure. I just hope that it doesn't get worse before it gets better, if that's ever possible.

Jim Wright at Stonekettlestation.com is a great source of information for the state of America today and all it's faults re gun laws.

Won't be long and armed drones will be in the air.

Did anyone see the piece on BBC3 (I think) after the last police shooting, in Shitsville , Wherever a few months ago? It showed a large group of black guys who had effectively formed a militia. They were marching down the streets with full camo gear, body armour and assault rifles. When interviewed they said that they had to do this as they were effectively at war, and this was the only way to defend their communities.

Isn't this pretty much what the second amendment is there to allow? You have the right to bear arms to protect yourself from a corrupt / authoritarian government. You can see why certain parts of the American population don't feel the authorities are on their side.

Made sense in post-revolution times but illustrates how it doesn't fit in with a modern society where there are (should be) better ways than getting bigger guns - things like a judiciary and justice system and your vote.

Because black people comprise circa 5% of the US population and yet make up about 1/3rd of the victims of unarmed police killings?

Black people are 12.3% of the population. I checked because I thought it was more than 5%. I assumed it was more like 20% tbh

I wouldn't worry about this, their senators are praying so it will all be sorted soon

cheekymonkey888 - you're sounding a bit like those people who say that certain kinds of terrorism "nothing to do with religion"

It would be wonderful to live in a world where you could be "colorblind" and look only at guilt or innocence, but statistically in the case of "police involved shootings" of innocent people colour is clearly a factor (as religion is in my example above).

An interesting fact to watch for whether the NRA kick up a fuss (or make any comment at all) about how this man had a legal right to carry a gun and that law enforcement shouldn't have killed him for it.

tick tock ...

I was astonished that the original victims girlfriend appeared to be using her phone to video her boyfriend dying from gunshot wounds rather attempting any sort of first aid, however unlikely it was to be successful.

Also wondering how well planned and trained the Dallas snipers were to take out so many cops with only one civilian apparently injured.

Crazy world.

12% still makes those numbers high - they certainly don't constitute 20 percent.

I don't think armed black militia groups is that surprising really, considering their history and ongoing struggles in the US.

cheekymonkey888 - you're sounding a bit like those people who say that certain kinds of terrorism "nothing to do with religion"

It would be wonderful to live in a world where you could be "colorblind" and look only at guilt or innocence, but statistically in the case of "police involved shootings" of innocent people colour is clearly a factor (as religion is in my example above).

[b]An interesting fact to watch for whether the NRA kick up a fuss (or make any comment at all) about how this man had a legal right to carry a gun and that law enforcement shouldn't have killed him for it.[/b]

tick tock ...

Heh.

Oh and +1

Also wondering how well planned and trained the Dallas snipers were to take out so many cops with only one civilian apparently injured.

Thats no mystery, surely?

Seeing as how the white powers that be in the States have always viewed the poor black community as a pool of resources to fight its foreign wars for it. And given recent history and its endless conflict, I'd imagine there are a large amount of seriously well-trained and battle-hardened black guys (PTSD?) now back in places like Dallas, who are probably feeling pretty disillusioned at how they've been 'rewarded' after 'fighting for their country'

I was astonished that the original victims girlfriend appeared to be using her phone to video her boyfriend dying from gunshot wounds rather attempting any sort of first aid, however unlikely it was to be successful.

Also wondering how well planned and trained the Dallas snipers were to take out so many cops with only one civilian apparently injured.

Coming from a target shooting background, taking aimed shots with a scoped rifle isn't that hard. I wouldn't take that as evidence that they were trained.

But what did creep me out was the way the one on the ground moved towards an officer taking into account sightline, distracted him in a feint by firing on one side of the column and then burst round and shot him in the back. That MAY indicate training - and it's pretty probable as so much of the US population have served in the forces.

Not really a great country is it? Lot's of people who all hate each other for various reasons, are armed to the teeth and battle hardened.

That video of the black guy being shot on the ground by a cop on his chest was all over facebook, absolutely horrific, a difficult watch. I just don't understand why tazers (or other non lethal devices) aren't used. Those cops should be tried for murder, pure n simple.

I was astonished that the original victims girlfriend appeared to be using her phone to video her boyfriend dying from gunshot wounds rather attempting any sort of first aid,

well if your partner has just been shot for reaching into the glove box, as he was reportedly asked to do, then sitting very still and waiting for the psycho with the gun to chill the **** out is probably an astute idea.

especially as he was pointing a gun at her now and shouting to keep her hands where he could see them.

Did make me wonder if even after shooting his arm off, he could still have acted differently and given him a chance of life. As it was his follow up actions / lack of absolutely finished him off.

Its been pointed out before that in the UK police are trained to start delivering first aid as soon as someone is no longer a threat (e.g. see the video of the police saving the lives of the [expletive deleted] who stabbed Lee Rigby in London).

The Americans seem to prefer to stand there and watch you bleed out.

I really don't think that the woman who made that video would be alive today if she'd reached over to try and stop her boyfriend bleeding.

Isn't this pretty much what the second amendment is there to allow? You have the right to bear arms to protect yourself from a corrupt / authoritarian government

I can't make the words fit the meaning often ascribed to them (i.e. protect yourself from a corrupt / authoritarian government).

It was an extensive part of the public discourse at the time, see for example the 'Federalist' papers 28 and 29.

NRA [i]another mass shooting then. Just think how the outcome could have been different in the victims had be armed and could have defended themselves. If there were more guns this wouldn't have happened.[/i]

Common sense [i]but the victims were armed cops[/i].

NRA [i]errrrrr. More guns![/i]

Shame that, even today, he NRA will not be capable of seeing how senseless its own argument is.

It showed a large group of black guys who had effectively formed a militia. They were marching down the streets with full camo gear, body armour and assault rifles. When interviewed they said that they had to do this as they were effectively at war, and this was the only way to defend their communities.

The police in US are being trained by the military according to an article on the Register this morning. They get all the trigger-happy stuff the the US forces are renowned for and none of the 'rules of engagement' training. Hence the shaven-headed clown knocking people to the floor and why 'The Brothers' above consider themselves under an occupation and react accordingly.

Utterly tragic, it seems this cycle of violence is no where near being resolved.

The Dallas police have just said in a news conference that they used a bomb to kill one of the cornered suspects after negotiations failed. I think when a society gets to the point where the police are at least as well armed as the military, and dress the same, then you really need to step back and and have a good hard look.

**** mental
Im sure the answer from congress will be no more legislation and more guns

http://donotshoot.us/ collects stories of Police abuses in America

[I] I think when a society gets to the point where the police are at least as well armed as the military, and dress the same, then you really need to step back and and have a good hard look. [/I]

+1

Looking on from Western Europe (still in the EU), and the UK in particular, once again the carrying and use of potent weapons by the public to murder and the Police response -robot delivered explosives to kill a suspect- both appear absolutely ludicrous.

The killing of members of the public by US Police (and the numbers killed every year), quite apart from race, are shocking.

There is something very wrong.

Fewer guns really is the way forward, surely?

Their 2nd Amendment is anachronistic nonsense.

This former senator is trying to defuse the situation (or something)...

[img] [/img]

he results provide evidence of a significant bias in the killing of unarmed black Americans relative to unarmed white Americans, in that the probability of being {black, unarmed, and shot by police} is about 3.49 times the probability of being {white, unarmed, and shot by police} on average.

[url= http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0141854#abstract0 ]A Multi-Level Bayesian Analysis of Racial Bias in Police Shootings at the County-Level in the United States, 2011–2014[/url]

You can see why the movements that are going on exist. There's a problem with the US police and there doesn't seem to be much in the way of solutions. America needs to have a long and serious conversation about race, gun and the police, but it's not going to happen any time soon 🙁

Their is no more a problem with racism in the 'US Police' than there is with 'Muslims' being terrorists. Which means that of course there is a problem but if you're going to codify the story as 'all police' then you're no better than those who claim 'all Muslisms' are terrorists.

the police are a sub set of society just like ISIS are [ of the muslim community]

Can I say all of ISIS are bad? They are all racist against non muslims?
If i can then I can say the same about the police as an organisation

To be clear i dont think the argument that all the police are racist is either true or helpful I just think your comparison is a poor one.
Its an ok point to make as it is theoretically possible that all the police are racist

Given the disproportionate death and incarcerations rates for Black americans its hard to argue the service on a whole is anything other than racist. That does not man every copper is.

For clarity I am discussing the US police not the UK police

For clarity I am discussing the US police not the UK police

Yes, I think that's a given but still useful to state.

Its an ok point to make as it is theoretically possible that all the police are racist

I would argue that empirically speaking that is [u]impossible[/u] because you're not dealing with an absolute characteristic. Theoretically it could be possible for the set of all police officers to be white/black/male/female ertc because they are finite, discrete characteristics.

Racism or bias is not remotely finite; it's an abstracted concept based on observed behaviour, values and beliefs and as such, while it is obvious at the extremes, there are many shades of grey before you get there.

Given the disproportionate death and incarcerations rates for Black americans its hard to argue the service on a whole is anything other than racist.

What has been focused on in the reporting is the difference in the rate of deaths between blacks and whites. What has not been commented on is the absolute number itself.

There are over 1 million people working in law enforcement in the US and of those about 765,000 have front line powers of arrest. There have been 136 deaths of black people at the hands of the police in 2015. Assuming there aren't any individuals reposnible for more than one of those, that means you're making a judgement on the entire US police force as being 'racist' based on the actions of 0.013% of the workforce.

It that's not biggotry and prejudice I don't know what is.

But, it is clear that there is a problem. Of course there is as aferall, the rate at which black people are killed is a lot higher than for whites. Most of the informed commentators in the US seem to have shifted the way they encode the story from being based on outright racism, to in built bias based on perceived threat. That still makes it a problem, but it's not remotely the same problem as 'the police force is institutionally racist'.

But, it is clear that there is a problem. Of course there is as aferall, the rate at which black people are killed is a lot higher than for whites.

I found this jaw dropping - the dominance of homicide vs suicide between black and white gun deaths 😯

[IMG] [/IMG]

I found this jaw dropping - the dominance of homicide vs suicide between black and white gun deaths

Also, the current troubles seem to revolve around black vs white. Wikipedia (yeah, I know, but I'm reasonably confident isn't far off the mark here) says that Hispanics are 17% of the population, whereas black Americans are about 13%. Is there a similar disparity in Hispanic deaths?

There are over 1 million people working in law enforcement in the US and of those about 765,000 have front line powers of arrest. There have been 136 deaths of black people at the hands of the police in 2015. Assuming there aren't any individuals reposnible for more than one of those, that means you're making a judgement on the entire US police force as being 'racist' based on the actions of 0.013% of the workforce.

You are simply trying to divert attention from the issue - as seen from the data Geetee, the American police are institutionally racist.

Neither is it just about deaths caused by the police, let's quote wiki shall we?

The issue of policies that target minority populations in large cities, also known as Stop and Frisk and arrest quotas, as practiced by the NYPD, have receded from media coverage due to lawsuits that have altered the practice.[42] In Floyd vs City of New York, a landmark ruling that created an independent Inspector General's office to oversee the NYPD, the federal judge called a whistleblowers recordings of superiors use of "quotas" the 'smoking gun evidence' that police were racially profiling and violating civilians' civil rights.[43] The police officer at the center of the case settled with the city for $1.1million and in a separate case won an additional settlement against the hospital where he was involuntarily confined after cops retaliated and unlawfully placed him in a psych ward for reporting fudged stats in his precinct. After taking office the current mayor of NYC declined to continue litigating stop and frisk practices and the numbers of minorities stopped under the practice dropped dramatically.[44] The use of quotas to pad arrest figures also has fallen after lawsuits exposed the practice as carried on by drug enforcement officers.[45][46]

A 2013 study using J. Philippe Rushton's IQ findings alone found that after accounting for intelligence and crime history, no sentencing differences by race were found.[47][48] The Southern Poverty Law Center have found that since 2008 after Barack Obama's election into office, racist hate groups have increased above 400%.[49] Racism at the institutional level dies hard, and is still prevalent in many U.S. institutions including law enforcement and the criminal justice system.[49] Frequently these institutions use racial profiling along with greater police brutality.[49] The greatest disparity is how capital punishment is disproportionately applied to minorities and especially to blacks.[49] The gap is so wide it undermines any legitimacy of the death penalty along with the integrity of the whole judicial system.[49]

But, it is clear that there is a problem. Of course there is as aferall, the rate at which black people are killed is a lot higher than for whites. [b] Most of the informed commentators in the US seem to have shifted the way they encode the story from being based on outright racism, to in built bias based on perceived threat.[/b] That still makes it a problem, but it's not remotely the same problem as 'the police force is institutionally racist'.

That is racism though, isn't it. And now - I'm sure that you will post a graph showing crime levels in the black community are much higher - to prove why people feel more threatened by black people. Despite the fact that crime is associated with economic standing not race and the black community have historically and still are to a lesser extend - kept from attaining a better economic standing within the US.

Assuming there aren't any individuals reposnible for more than one of those, that means you're making a judgement on the entire US police force as being 'racist' based on the actions of 0.013% of the workforce.

It that's not biggotry and prejudice I don't know what is.

But, it is clear that there is a problem. Of course there is as aferall, the rate at which black people are killed is a lot higher than for whites.

While I understand the #blacklivesmatter movement, have they been as quick to decry this as a racist hate crime?

Regardless whether he felt that revenge was needed against the police force, he's not targeted the officer involved in any of the deaths perpetrated by police.

#alllivesmatter

While I understand the #blacklivesmatter movement, have they been as quick to decry this as a racist hate crime?

Yes, yes they have.

Btw #alllivesmatter is a hashtag used by the teaparty lot to undermine the movement.

[img] [/img]

#alllivesmatter is a trope used by racists 😀

I think the stats are 1 Police office dies from a shooting per week in the US. So whilst 50 is far far lower than the number of deaths as a result of police use of force it is a significant number

General reporting today is the shooter acted alone and was an ex volunteer/part-time soldier with tours of Afghanistan. He was "blown up" by a remote control device after he refused to surrender

General reporting today is the shooter acted alone and was an ex volunteer/part-time soldier with tours of Afghanistan. [b]He was "blown up" by a remote control device after he refused to surrender[/b]

American policing tactics

Agreed its an attempt to portray those who say black lives matter as racists and deflect from the very real issue that racism is part of the problem here and the manifestation of it is dead black bodies. Of course all lives matters but its clack ones who are losing them disproportionately and THIS DOES MATTER.

These events are like this generations to kill a mocking bird. Pretending their is no problem is head shakingly head in the sands territory.

#alllivesmatter may be used by racists or tea party supporters, but as far as I know hashtags aren't copyright of any one group. The message remains the same.

You can come up with a statistic that favours one group over another, and someone will be along to point out the flaw in the numbers.

White, black, Asian, Hispanic, Martian, everyone of these groups will have a few spangles that think they're put upon by whatever other group and we end up in a fight fire with fire situation like this.

As usual the real issues are never dealt with, racial profiling, police brutality, gun culture, segregation from all sides. We'll be lucky if an answer is ever found in our lifetime

#alllivesmatter may be used by racists or tea party supporters, but as far as I know hashtags aren't copyright of any one group. The message remains the same.

You can come up with a statistic that favours one group over another, and someone will be along to point out the flaw in the numbers.

[b]White, black, Asian, Hispanic, Martian, everyone of these groups will have a few spangles that think they're put upon by whatever other group and we end up in a fight fire with fire situation like this.[/b]

LOL, that's hilarious. Hundreds of years of oppression and systemic racism are a few "spangles" are they?

racial profiling, police brutality, gun culture, segregation from all sides.

I'm sorry but where are all the black police departments beating up black people and racially profiling whites?

You're just further confirming the point that the hastage #alllivesmatter is used to undermine valid issues.

as far as I know hashtags aren't copyright of any one group. The message remains the same.

You can come up with a statistic that favours one group over another, and someone will be along to point out the flaw in the numbers.

White, black, Asian, Hispanic, Martian, everyone of these groups will have a few spangles that think they're put upon by whatever other group and we end up in a fight fire with fire situation like this

Yes its complicated, yes there are other factors but this is like over Steven Lawrence and the Police need to address their issue so they can do their job of serving society. We wont get there if they pretend their is no problem.

While I understand the #blacklivesmatter movement, have they been as quick to decry this as a racist hate crime?

Regardless whether he felt that revenge was needed against the police force, he's not targeted the officer involved in any of the deaths perpetrated by police.

#alllivesmatter

+1

Sometimes people forget the we are all human. Some people think claiming a moral high ground based on colour / race is ok. Other people may construe this as being racist.
Its a shame that justice cant be used effectively to get to the bottom of it all

It's incredibly difficult for white people who don't have the experiences that so many black Americans have to understand how they feel and why they feel that way. Often, attempts to describe those experiences is met with a push back, how ever unintended it may be. [url= http://www.huffingtonpost.com/good-men-project/why-its-so-hard-to-talk-to-white-people-about-racism_b_7183710.html ]This is a great article on the subject[/url].

I know personally, I can't ever really understand how someone who's had a to deal with racism their who life feels about the police or the structures that govern their day to day life. There is a genuine fear when having to deal with the police that just should not be there. It's not unfounded either, you only have to look at any number of studies to see there is a problem. Trying to deny it, or push it on to 'a few bad apples' does not help. No one is saying that every police officer is racist, but we need to accept there's an institutional bias at work and try to mitigate that.

A girl I know (but not well) has been recounting some of her personal dealings with growing up as a black person in North America and it's heart breaking reading. It made me personally realise that while society has come along way, there's still a long long way to go.

Although I think we have experienced prejudice in ours lives no matter what race / sex we are. That is not in the same level but equally other races will have the same in their countries like the aborigines in Australia.

The plight of racism exists everywhere and push back is not limited to americans.

Although I think we have experienced prejudice in ours lives no matter what race / sex we are. That is not in the same level but equally other races will have the same in their countries like the aborigines in Australia.

The plight of racism exists everywhere and push back is not limited to americans.

This is just whataboutery. No one has said that no one else faces prejudice, or that's it's limited to Americans. I would say though, that as a white, lower middle class male, the amount of prejudice and discrimination I have faced is practically none and I'd feel embarrassed to even think about trying to down play the institutional biasses that still clearly exist.

that as a white, lower middle class male

You're making the classic error here of presuming that the only prejudice or bias that people experience or is worth documenting is based on class, gender or ethnicity (or indeed sexuality though you don't highlight this I'm sure you would include it).

Just because the prejudices and biases society exhibits aren't easily categorised against externally visible characteristics doesn't make them any less pernicious or painful for those they are directed to. I think if a lot people get angry with how vocal some pressure groups are about their own experiences of victimhood it's not because they don't think they are in some way undeserving of sympathy or redress, it's because their own status as victims is ignored or not recognised.

Why does everyone have to be a victim?

I'm a white male - there's petty much nothing I can possibly feel victimised about, the whole of society is pretty much built by and around people like me. Trying to claim that white people have any inkling of what it's like to be black is whataboutery.

Why does everyone have to be a victim?

I'm a white male - there's petty much nothing I can possibly feel victimised about

That might be true for you. Possibly you've genuinely had an easy life. But you're naively assuming your experience of being a white [middle class, straighjt] male' as being an entirely consistent with all other white middle class, straight men.

I suspect you believe that such a group is entirely homogenous, when of course it's not. There may be a ruling cabal of 'white middle class straight men' by and for which the world has been constructed, but that set is defined by many more variables than just those we've defined here. There are most definitely the right kind of such men and the wrong kind and your experience of life if you fall into the later could just as easily be defined as that of a 'victim', as someone who is black, or gay or female.

Personality characteristics, mental health, motivation, behaviour, circumstance and your early life experiences all play a huge part in differentiating the individual's experience of life, their chances of being successful or of feeling integrated and accepted by society.

Experiences are not homogenous. Barack Obama's experience of being a black African American are clealy not remotely consistent with that of say Rodney King or any of the other disenfranchised black men that have been killed at the hands of the police.

I'm a white male - there's petty much nothing I can possibly feel victimised about

Oh, I dunno, [url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/tomorrow-is-independence-day ]I think you found your cause[/url] 😉

Ha - that's my point though, I don't feel victimised about being Scottish or whatever.

Geetee, everyone gets treated differently because of how others perceive us, that's a given - but it's on a different scale to how people are treated because they're black. Obama is a good example, really - what other president has faced repeated dog-whistle questioning about their parentage?

This is why I get uncomfortable when some people call anti-Scottish comments "racist" - they're not racist, they're ignorant and annoying. But maybe that's just because I'm confident enough to tell anyone like that to f*** off.

You're making the classic error here of presuming that the only prejudice or bias that people experience or is worth documenting is based on class, gender or ethnicity (or indeed sexuality though you don't highlight this I'm sure you would include it).

You're making the classic error of conflating prejudice with racism.

http://sociology.about.com/od/Ask-a-Sociologist/fl/Whats-the-Difference-Between-Prejudice-and-Racism.htm

I find it interesting to note that a lot of the people denying the validity of the BLM movement in this thread, were prominent brexiters.