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Great result! And now I guess there's 8K you don't need to spend on an engine so.... new bike time?
This thread has just made me buckle and book mine in - same van, 2021, 55k on the clock - for the new camshaft kit. Kit and new timing belt etc will be about £800, plus fitting which could be up to a day and a half apparently. I am not expecting change from £2k.
Inevitably, a week after I stump for it, there will be a recall.
Great new.
So glad it worked out for you.
Been following this as we have the same engine in our car.
Also considering the 8mm conversion...
This thread has just made me buckle and book mine in - same van, 2021, 55k on the clock - for the new camshaft kit. Kit and new timing belt etc will be about £800, plus fitting which could be up to a day and a half apparently. I am not expecting change from £2k.
Inevitably, a week after I stump for it, there will be a recall.
How did you go about booking it in and who with please?
@singlespeedstu I am currently perusing kits - look at Lymm Engine Components on Ebay. They have OEM kits with Dayco belts and Febi pumps. My local garage can do the work. You'll want the waterpump and timing belt done at the same time. You'll also need oil and a filter.
Thanks to all that have contributed I appreciate it
Nice... I suspect they best you'll get from vauxhall is 'gesture of good will/without prejudice' in writing..
But at least you now have it fully fixed and presumably guaranteed as long as its serviced correctly going forward?
No guarantee as it's a goodwill engine apparently but it's the 8mm chain
No guarantee as it's a goodwill engine apparently but it's the 8mm chain
There's no warranty or guarantee of any kind?
That's disgraceful tbh.
I mean it's great that they 'fixed it' but what if they cock something up on the rebuild, or there's an unforseen issue with the new engine?
Is it a new engine or a refurbished engine?
New engine
Best wishes with it all OP - I had vaguely similar with Volvo, car I bought was using 1l of oil every 2k miles, they replaced all of engine apart from cylinder head & it's been absolutely fine since 👍
Excellent result.
No guarantee as it's a goodwill engine apparently but it's the 8mm chain
There's no warranty or guarantee of any kind?
That's disgraceful tbh.
I mean it's great that they 'fixed it' but what if they cock something up on the rebuild, or there's an unforseen issue with the new engine?
Is it a new engine or a refurbished engine?
That's perfectly normal.
The repairer will have to cover any issues that arise from any work they do, but beyond that you'd be looking for goodwill.
It's ultimately the same as any other warranty repair/replacement for most products, in that the warranty doesn't get extended just because something gets repaired/replaced.
No guarantee as it's a goodwill engine apparently but it's the 8mm chain
There's no warranty or guarantee of any kind?
That's disgraceful tbh.
I mean it's great that they 'fixed it' but what if they cock something up on the rebuild, or there's an unforseen issue with the new engine?
Is it a new engine or a refurbished engine?That's perfectly normal.
The repairer will have to cover any issues that arise from any work they do, but beyond that you'd be looking for goodwill.
It's ultimately the same as any other warranty repair/replacement for most products, in that the warranty doesn't get extended just because something gets repaired/replaced.
It's not an extension though, its warranty/guarnentee on the 'quality' of the repair/replacement.
What happens if the 'new' engine lunches itself tomorrow, would that just be 'tough luck'? in that case, what's to stop them just fitting an engine they know is already on it's last legs, on the cheap, as a replacement?
If the engine is 'new' then why wouldn't it carry the same warranty as (checks notes) a new box-fresh car/engine, as long as it's serviced correctly?
iirc unfortunately a replacement part does not reset the clock. however under consumer law it still would be possible too make a claim
Well this hasn't gone the way I'd expect. Just got in to go out with the kids, turn the key, not starting!!
😭 This is a thread I was looking forward to fading into the background, (in a good way). How dispiriting.
Waiting on the aa and recovery back to donny
What happens if the 'new' engine lunches itself tomorrow, would that just be 'tough luck'? in that case, what's to stop them just fitting an engine they know is already on it's last legs, on the cheap, as a replacement?
😬
No guarantee as it's a goodwill engine apparently but it's the 8mm chain
Once more with feeling:
It is not a warranty repair. It does not require a guarantee. It is not a goodwill gesture. These things are extras they may throw in on top of your legal rights. Absolutely no-one replaces an entire frikkin' engine as a "gesture of goodwill," they're in the shit and they know it. You need to stop using these terms or it will bite you in the arse.
Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 you have to give them one chance to repair (given the timescales) which you have done. If that repair subsequently fails you have a right to a refund, though they are allowed to adjust this for the length of time you've had use of the vehicle.
If they've replaced the entire block then I'd hazard that you'd have to be spectacularly unlucky for it to catastrophically fail again, but who knows.
"Goodwill" my arse. They've lied to your face.
Without delving deeply into the hundreds of posts can you answer one simple question.
Did you sign your order paperwork on site or by email?
Ie, did you sign an order they emailed out, sent it back then went and collected your car/they delivered. Also was their any element of their funding involved.
I think you missed my contribution on page 3, Cougar. All these Stelantis Engines that have been main dealer serviced with the right oil benefit from Stelantis paying 100% for fixing them if they fail before 5 years or 150 000km. It's the third engine in the "motorgate scandal" that has affected the 1.2Tce Renault, 1.2 Puretec Stelantis and now 1.5 diesel Stelantis. In the case of Renault the "prise en charge" (paying for failures) was 10 years, Stelantis 5 years for the OP's diesel.
@littelisthobo
No payment from me what do ever
No order from me
No signatures
It's not an extension though, its warranty/guarnentee on the 'quality' of the repair/replacement.
What happens if the 'new' engine lunches itself tomorrow, would that just be 'tough luck'? in that case, what's to stop them just fitting an engine they know is already on it's last legs, on the cheap, as a replacement?
If the engine is 'new' then why wouldn't it carry the same warranty as (checks notes) a new box-fresh car/engine, as long as it's serviced correctly?
Because you're not paying for a new item with a new warranty.
It's no different from say RockShox giving you a new set of forks the day before your warranty expires. If they blow up again the day after, then technically they have met their warranty obligation.
Oh for christ's sake.
It's still not a warranty issue. It is a statutory rights issue. There is no such thing as a "warranty obligation," they can warranty (or not) whatever the hell they like. Their only obligation with a warranty is to stick to the terms they've made up.
You can make a CRA claim up to six years. This has limitations depending what you'd bought, a set of forks costing more than the rest of the bike should be expected to last that long even if replaced, a Biro not so much.
Regardless of the reason an item is repaired/replaced, whatever relevant clock doesn't get reset.
No, it effectively stops. Do you suppose a retailer can continue replacing parts until 12 months have lapsed and then turn around and go "sorry chum, time up" without ever actually fixing a problem?
What's important is the time at which the fault was reported. Even with a big ticket item like a whole new engine, if the chain snaps again it's essentially a failed repair of the original fault.
(Genuine question because I don't know the answer:)
Suppose it was universally accepted that a reasonable expectation of a new car was that the engine would last at least ten years. Suppose an engine failed at 9 years and was replaced. And then the replacement failed 9 years later. Should that engine be replaced free on the basis that the original fault hadn't been rectified? Does this continue for decades to come (in practice, clearly at some point the seller would say "enough! Here's a refund instead!") Is that how it works?
I would have assumed that once you're past the 10 year expectation period from original purchase that the seller could say "you had a reasonable expectation that your car would last at least 10 years, and (aside from a week or two while we were repairing it), it now has."
Suppose it was universally accepted that a reasonable expectation of a new car was that the engine would last at least ten years.
it’s not though, even if you serviced a new car to the letter, if the engine failed after nine years the manufacturer isn’t replacing it free of charge lol
It may be a reasonable expectation but it doesn’t place any responsibility on the manufacturer to do anything if it doesn’t last. The only exception to this is the type of class action lawsuits you see in America, but they are on a case by case basis rather than something being a universally accepted rule of thumb.
Back to the faulty repair. Fuel hose not clipped/secured? So fuel spewing around the engine bay? I'm not a mechanic (INAM) but that sounds like a pretty serious fire risk if true... 🙄
It's an interesting argument this;
Firstly, it wasn't a 'universally expected' lifetime.
The camchain failed within the service interval for it - an interval set by the manufacturer, and which may have formed part of the buying decision (both my kids older cars are camchain for this reason)
It failed, the manuf has repaired and paid for it as they are pretty well obligated to (fault in design, present at point of sale, etc.) and the details and wiggling over exact oil and late service has muddied waters but don't change the basis.
So now the car has a replaced 8mm chain engine, and the OP has a car that they can consider should be robust against this failure for another 90k miles or 150k km or whatever the service interval is. Of course, needs to still be serviced and looked after. But, and this is the crux, the car wasn't bought just on the belief it wouldn't fail within the first service interval, but that it wouldn't fail in the next service interval if the appropriate work had been done. It has been so to me the clock resets on that and if the engine fails by breaking its chain I don't see why you wouldn't be back to the garage that did the work expecting the fix to be sorted for you. To only get the remains of the original service interval is wrong, if you ask me.
Suppose it was universally accepted that a reasonable expectation of a new car was that the engine would last at least ten years.
it’s not though, even if you serviced a new car to the letter, if the engine failed after nine years the manufacturer isn’t replacing it free of charge lol
It may be a reasonable expectation but it doesn’t place any responsibility on the manufacturer to do anything if it doesn’t last. The only exception to this is the type of class action lawsuits you see in America, but they are on a case by case basis rather than something being a universally accepted rule of thumb.
OK, so replace 10 years with 5 then, and see the rest of this thread. If the failure is caused by bad design or manufacturing, then that's exactly what is required and what has happened here. My question was intended as an example to help me understand how the consumer law works (and maybe there's a 6 year limit on that which I had forgotten about), not as a question about how long it's reasonable to expect an engine to last.
I understand that there's a difference between "this thing was designed and made perfectly well, but you were a bit unlucky in that yours lasted a bit less long than average" and "we made this badly, so you didn't actually receive what you paid for."
Suppose it was universally accepted that a reasonable expectation of a new car was that the engine would last at least ten years. Suppose an engine failed at 9 years and was replaced. And then the replacement failed 9 years later. Should that engine be replaced free on the basis that the original fault hadn't been rectified? Does this continue for decades to come (in practice, clearly at some point the seller would say "enough! Here's a refund instead!") Is that how it works?
There's two things to consider here (as I understand it):
Firstly, at 9 years you're outwith the CRA - the maximum length of time you can make a claim is 6 years from taking delivery. After this you're at the whims of any manufacturer / dealer warranty offered (I think KIA has a 10-year warranty so it's not implausible) and as I said before they can write whatever terms they like - including "none whatsoever" - so long as they then follow them.
Secondly, you said it yourself, the key word here is "reasonable," this is essentially how the CRA's Satisfactory Quality criterion is gauged. Is it reasonable to expect a brand new car to last for the length of its warranty? Absolutely. Is it reasonable to expect it to last for 9 years when the warranty is for 3? Maybe, but I'd prepare for an argument. Is it reasonable to expect it to last for 18 years because it had a replacement engine 9 years ago? No chance, and it's likely to be rotten elsewhere by then in any case.
Aside: if hypothetically it were still covered under CRA and the dealer offered a refund, they're allowed to make deductions based on the usage you've had from the car when it was working. So you're unlikely to be retiring to the Bahamas off the return from an 18-year old motor.
I Am Not A Lawyer. YMMV so long as your engine isn't ****ed.
(Cross-post sorry, that took a while to type.)
OK, so replace 10 years with 5 then
This is a much more interesting question. I guess the answer would be "is it reasonable to expect a repair to 'only' last for five years?"
You've got a car which, aside from eating itself halfway through its life and being fixed, is 10 years old and has otherwise been fine. That's about the timescale I'd expect to start seeing big-ticket repair bills anyway.
This thread has just made me buckle and book mine in - same van, 2021, 55k on the clock - for the new camshaft kit. Kit and new timing belt etc will be about £800, plus fitting which could be up to a day and a half apparently. I am not expecting change from £2k.
Inevitably, a week after I stump for it, there will be a recall.
An update:
6 weeks after I had it done Stellantis have issued a recall for DV5 engines and extended the warranty to 10 years, as well a scheme to refund those who have had the chain replaced out of their own pocket.
My total cost was £2300 for a new cambox, cams, chain, rockers, lifters etc, plus water pump and timing belt, coolant, oil etc.
I have logged a claim online with Stellantis through their online portal. The conditions for a refund are:
All of the following criteria have to be met:
1. The incident happened between January 1, 2023, and June 30, 2025
2. The car falls under the extended coverage period voluntarily offered by your Brand (10 Years / 240.000 km, whichever occurs first), from the warranty
start date (commonly the first registration date).
3. The maintenance was carried out according to the manufacturer recommendation (time / mileage interval mainly), by any automotive professional.
This includes using the oils meeting the standards indicated at the time of the maintenance. The 3 lasts detailed invoices before the date of the repair
will be asked. Alternatively, a maintenance book stamped by an authorized dealer belonging to the Stellantis network will be accepted. We will
consider acceptable a maximum delay of 3 months / 3000 kms in the maintenance schedule.
4. The diagnosis and repair related to the camshaft chain must have been carried out by an authorized dealer belonging to the Stellantis network.
5. The claimant was the owner of the car at the time the incident occurred and paid for the repair of the issue.
The work on my car WAS NOT carried out at a Stellantis Dealer, so while I feel I am morally in the right, I am not optimistic I will qualify. When you see the hassle @Bikerevivesheffield went through, you can see why a preventative, if costly approach, may be the best.
That's fantastic news
That's fantastic news
Was that sarcasm or did you not read the whole post?!
Off the back of this thread I got in contact with Peugeot to see if my vehicle was included in the recall.
It is. I've been in touch with my local Peugeot garage and arranged for the car to go in for diagnostics in a week or so time.
This I believe involves some kind of engine listening device they have developed.
If it fails this test they'll do the 8mm chain upgrade FOC.
I was told that every vehicle they've tested so far has failed and It'll probably be October before it gets booked in for the work as they have so many to do.
I'll update this when I know what's happening.
TBH chains should be super reliable and last the life of the car
Try telling BMW that!
And Jaguar
And almost any modern chain driven vehicle.
More and more are now hampered by plastic guides to reduce noise which invariably wear.
it's owned by me and not the business. It has 7 seats to ferry the kids and associated stuff around as it's prime job, fetching and delivering bikes is secondary
A very typical ex-Motability vehicle, I’ve driven more than a few of those, from a range of manufacturers.
Ideal for the OP’s purposes, they’ve usually got a degree of ‘patination’, so extra scuffs and grubby marks aren’t important.
Hope it gets sorted satisfactorily.
it's owned by me and not the business. It has 7 seats to ferry the kids and associated stuff around as it's prime job, fetching and delivering bikes is secondary
A very typical ex-Motability vehicle, I’ve driven more than a few of those, from a range of manufacturers.
Ideal for the OP’s purposes, they’ve usually got a degree of ‘patination’, so extra scuffs and grubby marks aren’t important.
Hope it gets sorted satisfactorily.
Posting here in the event it may help someone. Vivaro owner 1.5 120bhp model. Vauxhall told me no recall for my vehicle. Mine has a build date of 10/01/20. Based on part numbers and profile of camshaft cover I have 8mm chain fitted from the factory.
10 min job unbolting a few plastics, inspection mirror and torch to see the part number hidden under the fuel rail.
Shouldn’t need to do anything beyond open the bonnet (unless the Combo has more covers). The cam cover is a different shape between the 7 and 8mm versions (page 3 of your document)
I am still waiting on Stellantis getting back to me. My V5 was unreadable, so needed re-scanned and re-submitted. Case opened on 8 August, re-scan sent 11 August. I wonder what the wait is?
Thank you for your enquiry. Unfortunately, we cannot process your request because it does not meet the conditions. The diagnosis and repair must be carried out in the approved network. The full policy including the needed conditions can be found here: https://dv5conditions.stellantis-support.com/&source=gmail&ust=1759254449491000&usg=AOvVaw0wrS_tZSp0MekgmuNevah g"> https://dv5conditions.stellantis-support.com/
Your Stellantis Support Team