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they have it
they have all of the paper work
it's booked in for an assessment tomorrow
i've been made aware of the assessment cost if it's not a warranty issue (£190/hr!!)
thats all i know for now
Got my fingers crossed for you. 🙁
That assessment hourly rate is mad expensive!
Crazy huh!
What's the engine code?
There are some 1,5 units on eBay for ten hours of assessment money.
I would be buying one of these and fitting new belts and chain.
Not a clue
Fingers crossed here too 🤞
Got my fingers crossed for you. 🙁
That assessment hourly rate is mad expensive!
It stops all but the most aggrieved complainants.
Hope it goes well for you OP 👍
99% certain the chain has snapped
Need a further 6 hours to strip down to ascertain damage at £120 per hour currently sales saying no goodwill or warranty - they will not entertain anything unless i authorise the strip down of the engine at £840
Service are trying to get some form of warranty/goodwill
Bloody hell !
sales saying no goodwill or warranty - they will not entertain anything unless i authorise the strip down of the engine at £840
whats their justification on that position. seems short sighted given that the vehicles still within its stipulated working life , has been serviced by the book at massive expense and isnt old NOR is it a visible wear item , you get zero warning.
Why buy from a dealer why have a dealer maintain your car ?
the list is getting smaller every time they race to the bottom.
@trailrat - no justification, this is through a member of the service team comms desk
go to head office / importer
I wouldn't go to head office - the 'contractual rights' are with the dealer you bought from. Aside from all the stuff about CRA vs SOGA this seems clearcut. If anyone needs to get Head Office involved it's the dealer you have the contract with.
You bought a car with a FMDSH, from a franchised dealer (hang on - assume a franchise of the marque you bought, although even that shouldn't matter) and they serviced it before you bought.
7 months later the chain snaps and eats a large part of the engine. OK, there's a complexity, takes it out of the 6mo period in the CRA where it is assumed the fault was present into a position where burden of proof is on you to to show that the fault was present - but there's evidence of 1/ loads of other engines doing the same; 2/ them (the company / its dealers) having done repairs and replacement in similar situations; 3/ they now don't sell a 7mm version having identified the issue and speccing an 8mm now; 4/ it's still in the service interval etc..... 5/ need I go on.
This is as clear cut to me as it gets, that the fault was clearly one that was there at purchase even if it didn't manifest until after the 6mo where it was assumed to be there, and therefore it's on the dealer that you bought it from to fix / replace / whatever as stipulated in the CRA.
Only possible get out to me would be if you were explicity told or it is substantially implied you should have known that this had the dodgy chain in there, and maybe price reflected it.
Stick to your guns, read and then keep quoting that these are your rights under the CRA and are they denying you your statutory rights, etc. And if necessary a lawyers "letter before action" would be my consideration.
Thanks
To be fair to the service team they are working their arses off for me
I got similar "need to authorise costs for diagnosis" with a Volvo main dealer warranty but luckily fault appeared before the 6 months was up so pushed back that I'd just reject the car if they didn't just sort it out. Wish you all the luck with getting it sorted.
Once again,
There is a difference between a warranty and statutory rights. If you want work doing "under warranty" then they can make up whatever horseshit takes their fancy to tell you it's not covered. A warranty is in addition to CRA, not instead of it. CRA is backed up by law, that's what "statutory" means.
Buying a used vehicle from a dealer you have the same rights as buying new. Goods have to be of "satisfactory quality" which is defined in a woolly fashion as what a reasonable person would expect. I don't think it's reasonable to expect a vehicle with a full main dealer service history to explode after 7 months.
I don't think it's reasonable to expect a vehicle with a full main dealer service history to explode after 7 months.
Stands alone, but add in "in a manner that other similar vehicles have done, and which they have fixed with a redesigned system on later models and have retrofit kits for on this one, all within the service interval for that particular part" and honestly, I think the only thing they're doing is being a bit difficult in the hope you don't know your rights and roll over to paying for it.
KNOW YOUR RIGHTS
and insist on them being honoured. No more, no less.
as to
To be fair to the service team they are working their arses off for me
Hmmm.... they all work for the same firm, they all need to be knocked into line here. They know they're on the hook for this. To me working my arse off would look more like
"I'm so sorry, yes, there are some with a fault, we'll get it in asap, rebuilt with the new 8mm setup and all other damaged parts replaced, it'll be no cost to you and meanwhile here's a courtesy car for the inconvenience"
It's looking a little more hopeful, will report back tomorrow. The dealer service team and one person in particular are working tirelessly.
I haven't seen it and from your description I am 100% the chain has snapped. Good luck OP!
As soon as they commit to a broken chain, that's it.
Any further inspection is on them, at their expense.
If nothing changes tomorrow then you need proper legal advice. You should be able to get a free consultation with either a solicitor, CAB or council consumer rights. Take your pick
Sales Teams are arses. Service Teams much better.
I bought the Vivaro from a main dealer. Couple of things.. Car had expensive rear 'modular' mats which aren't standard - these enable you to move the mats about as you slide the chairs or rotate them - but no front - sales team not interested (bought a front mat only from CarMats.co.uk - executive version for £70). Roof of van hadn't been cleaned in a long time - rest of car was spotless, but even being on crutches, I managed to peek at the roof (mainly to look at roof bar points) - oh the roof is green. Got a 'sorry'.
It was the car I wanted and rare - they didn't know that. My wife was expecting to 'bargain' - there just isn't any bargaining to be had if you turn up with the cash, even £30k for the van. Now, on 'Finance'..... I explained to my wife the market has changed, and unless you are buying on Finance there is little to no negotiation for any extras due to zero commission on the 'financing'.
Hope you get some more luck with them OP - you should as the car is mid term in a service interval. Fingers crossed
Mine is 3 1/2 years old, and now of 37k with one dealer service done on the dot. Next not due till October (commercial lengths) - I bought two years servicing and warranty, which was about £700, but small when the van cost £30k. It's a much bigger cost proportionally for a lower capital outlay.
No bargaining eh, Madame Edukator got 1700e off and the colour she wanted for free on our last purchase. maybe you should have let your wife negotiate, fossy. 😉 We wrote a cheque.
6h hours labour to confirm a diagnostic the AA man made by taking the oil filler cap off does seem excessive. In that time they can get the head and sump off and then some.
1700e doesn't seem like much of a discount for the steering wheel being on the wrong side of the car.
France isn't it. UK dealers a bit shoot on moving on a deal for cash. I wanted the 'vehicle' as I'd been looking for a year for the exact spec - didn't tell them that.
I'm not a vauxhall master mechanic and I reckon in 90 mins I could have enough off pretty much any 4 pot motor to tell you how buggered it is.
In 6 hours I would be expecting a complete strip down.
I'm not a vauxhall master mechanic
Past experience at Vauxhall says neither are they
I'm not a vauxhall master mechanic and I reckon in 90 mins I could have enough off pretty much any 4 pot motor to tell you how buggered it is.
In 6 hours I would be expecting a complete strip down.
A master tech is unlikely to be stripping something like this 😉
I managed to avoid dealing with anything more than a cambelt change on the 1.5, but have seen a few rocker boxes changed on them. It would probably take you 90minutes just to get a clear view of the rocker box, as swapping them was a full shift.
The timing chain was more likely to jump than completely fail, so until you had the rocker box fully off, you couldn't really tell if that was the actual failure, or the extent of the damage, as you had to have the complete rocker box removed to check the cam timing.
However I never seen any that gone done by my previous employer need anything more than a new rocker box and set of cam followers.
Past experience at Vauxhall says neither are they
Ha, I once had a mate of my cousin, who was a Vauxhall apprentice change a Cavalier cam belt by simply cutting off the old one and levering the replacement into place with a screwdriver. The normal way to do it at his garage apparently.
TBF it worked and lasted a few years until rust got to the body at nearly 200k miles.
No bargaining eh, Madame Edukator got 1700e off and the colour she wanted for free on our last purchase. maybe you should have let your wife negotiate, fossy. 😉 We wrote a cheque.
You're not in England though are you?
It's very much gone to the sticker price is the price especially at main dealers. Back street car dealers you may get a little bit of wiggle-room. But there's 100% no mats-n-flaps deals out there now!
And cheques - how quaint! 🤣
We wrote a cheque.
Think the conversation relates to car purchasing in the last 30 years.
Sales Teams are arses. Service Teams much better.
Very much. Our Merc we bought from a Honda main dealer and went through their million point check or whatever it was failed pretty catastrophically on an MOT a couple of months later. Honda accepted they'd fkd up and fixed everything but the sales teams tried to charge us about 400 quid for the labour. We went down to the dealership to collect the car ready for a battle to point out we wouldn't be paying anything but the sales manager wasn't there. Spoke to the service/workshop manager instead who agreed it was farcical, handed us the keys and said he'd clear it with the sales manager and that we wouldn't hear anymore about it. We never did...
Five years ago. I wrote another big cheque last week, they're quite convenient for things that are beyond the limits on credit cards and Internet banking. The bank contacts me if they have doubt.
Contrary to some of the above, it's possible and common to speak to the manufacturer's call centre. No experience of Vx, but my wife has spent a lot of time working with Contact Centres for a few UK vehicle manufacturers. Including one who has to do an awful lot of warranty work 😀
Dealers can authorise a certain amount of work, but beyond that the CSC has the ability to provide more. (Up to and including 100% and buy-backs) They can and do overrule the dealerships.
It's always best to try the dealer first as it's good to have them on your side. But don't be fobbed off. If your not getting the right resolution, speak to the head office.
Five years ago. I wrote another big cheque last week, they're quite convenient for things that are beyond the limits on credit cards and Internet banking. The bank contacts me if they have doubt.
Faster Payments limit is £1m. I'm not exceeding that any time soon.
Handy in the same way faxes are for sending photos that are too big for email
*shrugs*
These days, the only point to cheques is when you hope they don't get cashed.
France may be different, of course.
Banks typically have a lower limit for in app use of Faster Payments e.g. £20k for NatWest due to push frauds. In branch can be higher due to extra customer ID&V and business limits may be higher too.
In France cheques seem to be mainly used to ensure that Supermarket checkouts are as inefficient as possible. Why have 2 trolley-loads waiting in each line when you could have 10?
OP, when it was last serviced (I assume by the supplying dealer), what oil was used?
If it has full dealer service history, then the issue is with the dealer, IMO...even if it was mostly serviced at an indie, and then had a service at a dealer, they should have flagged it up as a major potential issue if it was unclear the cambelt/chain wasn't appraised/replaced correctly.... (as an arse-covering excersise more than anything)
it's not rocket science... it's just passing the buck.
Same anti car dealer nonsence. Not all dealers are terrible.
If its got full complete svc history ask the service team to speak to the manufacturers CSU team and raise a goodwill request. Also call the manufacturers CSu team and lodge a querry.
Remember youll get more by being nice. When i did it if someone came in being an arse banging on about how the trades crap and i im going to trading standards id do the bare minimum.
However turn up be nice bring biscuits and the service team will fight your corner.
It's in process. Vauxhall are applying good will when they receive the necessary paperwork.
The dealer is pricing up the parts/new engine
Just a polite waiting game now.
The second team have been excellent
Remember youll get more by being nice. When i did it if someone came in being an arse banging on about how the trades crap and i im going to trading standards id do the bare minimum.
I worked in or adjacent to Support for years. This is 100% correct. Even on a helpdesk which was permanently under the cosh, we could frig the system to prioritise customers we liked. The "my email is down so I'm calling the CEO!" types got hoofed to the back of the queue and got dealt with when we absolutely had to.
FTR you can be both perfectly nice, polite and reasonable, and at the same time absolutely firm and crystal clear in your requests and expectations.
Trouble is in too many areas, and indeed some car service / dealerships, a less confident 'negotiator' ends up getting shafted - in this specific example, and after a quick google previously, there's enough examples of folk who have ended up paying for this fault to be resolved for me to know that some dealers have not been completely transparent in affording the customer their statutory rights. Or have weaselled out 'Oh, that's not exactly the specc'ed oil', 'Oh, that service was 100 miles late', etc. - which has had bollocks-all impact on this badly designed engine crapping itself.
Even the above 'Vauxhall are applying good will' is frankly a cop out, Vauxhall are giving OP just what the law says he is entitled to and 'good will' is irrelevant. Yes yes, I know why it's called goodwill, that in itself is weaselling out of admitting a problem and doing a proper recall
The dealer is pricing up the parts/new engine
This sounds to me like OP is going to get a bill at the end...
Yep fully expect that
Yep fully expect that
Yep fully expect that
Same anti car dealer nonsence. Not all dealers are terrible.
Not from me. After the terrible Statstone experience we bought the next from Lloyds in Colne who were superb. Used them plenty of times since. The reason I had a Ford Fiesta, three Focus and a Kuga one after another was because the local Ford dealer was top quality.
You want new car warranty buy a new car.
Sounds a bit shit but its why its cheaper... all the noise about the manufacturer should fix. Yep. In the warranty period.
20yrs in the trade been there.
Also.... no payment no warranty. You pay an element of the repair you get 12mth statuary.
If you get stuck and you can find me call me
#bteam
It's not a warranty issue.
Correct Cougar
Its about legal rights. If the cambelt or chain has failed before the service interval then it seems to be to either be a manufacturing fault or a serving fault. As its been main dealer serviced then in either case its up to the dealer to repair at their cost onerous tho that is
You want new car warranty buy a new car
Somehow doesn't seem relevent here when it hasn't come close to it's design statement. Either the engineering team was incompetent -either the design or the bench test criteria or the materials are not coming in to spec.
Not only has it failed early but it seems to have negated any safety factor that any eng team would be working to....not sure what the automotive industry works to but 1.2x standard in mine with more (up to 10x ) in safety critical process.
Correlated with the number of failures- this isn't a 1 off.
Absolutely agree with you if you have self serviced /used a backstreet garage- dealer has no idea what has been used regardless of the service book......as a wise man once said to me- all the service book tells you is someone somewhere has a pen that worked on that day.
I do my own servicing up to and including timing belts and accept that if it goes to shit it's on me. That's why I don't buy new cars.
Could be worse. Could be one of the new mgs getting advisorys for rusty structure in their first MOTs.
all the noise about the manufacturer should fix. Yep. In the warranty period.
20yrs in the trade been there.
Utter bollocks - warranty doesn't trump statutory rights, and if you've been 20y in the trade then that's another example of what I said above about consumers being 'misled' about what those rights are by dealers weaselling out of their rights.
If this was me I would not be paying a penny on this, and I'd see you in court before I even came close.
Now we know what engine it is I've done some Googling in French (determined to remain helpful 🙂 )
If you can prove the correct oil has been used at services then Stelantis will pick up the tab for repairs:
le groupe Stellantis a mis en place une grille de prise en charge à 100 % concernant les véhicules de moins de 5 ans ou 150 000 km au premier terme échu.
However, if the correct oil hasn't been used Stlantis won't
En revanche, si vous entretenez votre véhicule chez des réparateurs indépendants, vérifiez bien que la vidange soit réalisée avec de la 5W30 et non de la 0W30. En cas de bruit ou de défaillance du moteur, ce non-respect de la préconisation aurait pour conséquence un refus de la prise en charge par les marques du groupe Stellantis.
Why is it up to the OP to prove what oil was used? He’s not responsible for pouring it in the engine.
Sorry ....your dealer network serviced it. If they used the wrong oil....that's your issue not mine.
If you can prove the correct oil has been used at services then Stelantis will pick up the tab for repairs:
It's been Main Dealer serviced....if the right oil wasn't used then there's no way that's coming back on the OP either.
Because that's the conditon of the nothing to pay fix. People who've done their own maintainence even with the correct oil end up footing the bill. Check out some UK forums - an example from a French one:
https://www.forum-peugeot.com/Forum/threads/action-de-groupe-moteur-1-5-hdi.137821/
Given the age of the vehicle it's certain that it was running with original oil spec for some time and that's why its prematurely failed. If the engine got the right oil from the point Stelantis told its dealers to change they'll pay. If not they won't. The OP has never named the dealers so once again we are in the dark - we don't know if they were Stelantis dealers. It strikes me that if the servicing is 100% Stelantis they'll pick up the tab and anything else the OP's argument is with the people who did the servicing and that will be doomed to failure. That's the message I get from French forums anyhow.
Self serviced I can kind of sympathise with, no real QC or liability insurances on that. The question of MD service vs Indy service is trickier; there's no requirement to use a MD to keep warranty but there are wriggles in using pattern vs original parts, etc.
Using the wrong oil - I kind of see, but there are stories that even the right W oil is being rejected because it's not the hard to get hold of expensive Stelantis oil. If an engine's that fragile, it's not been well designed. Or back to my earlier post, it's just wriggling out of the obligations when 'morally' it's pretty clear cut that this engine has an intrinsic fault and not doing a recall and fix, allowing them to fail and then wiggling out because of small print clauses is poor.
But back to OP, if the MD that serviced this hasn't used the right equipment / oil, and then that's used to get out of the claim, no way I'd stand for that.
The OP has never named the dealers so once again we are in the dark - we don't know if they were Stelantis dealers.
Yes we do. Early on p2, it was a Motability vehicle which is a lease with a service plan included, serviced from new by Evans Halshaw and then by a franchised dealer prior to sale.
It is 100% on Vauxhall to pay for this fix, and as I said before, I'd be looking for an apology for the inconvenience and a courtesy car in the meantime!!
Sounds a bit shit but its why its cheaper... all the noise about the manufacturer should fix. Yep. In the warranty period.
No one's asking the manufacturer to fix it. They want the supplying dealer to deal with the problem as you'd expect in a car that was bought 7 months ago.
If you've done 20 years "in the trade" then you should know the law by now...
And that's the danger of taking advice from foreign forums with different consumer rights to the country of interest.
The not-well-designed bit is proven by the fact they fitted a wider chain. However they claim that the older engines are fine with the new oil. There are many engines that have quite specific oil requirements and as you say it's a wiggle. Cars with warranty I've bought have always been serviced at main dealers of the brand and I've continued that until 5 years at least, I'll contiue to 8 years on the current car with an 8-year guarantee on the battery. No wiggle room then.
Which brand was the "franchised dealer" franchised to? Our OP has been more than a little bit evasive on so many points whereas he needs to name every business on the service record if he wants meaningful advice.
Another Brexit bonus, Trailrat, EU consumer protection no longer applies to the UK so companies can make a distinction (but generally don't).
I've not been evasive what so ever, calm and not a bell end yes. The name of the franchised dealer dealing with it are if no consequence.
- They are a Vauxhall franchised dealer.
Utter bollocks - warranty doesn't trump statutory rights, and if you've been 20y in the trade then that's another example of what I said above about consumers being 'misled' about what those rights are by dealers weaselling out of their rights.
If this was me I would not be paying a penny on this, and I'd see you in court before I even came close.
All of this. ☝
It's been dealer serviced at the correct intervals. If it's got the wrong oil in it or some other random bollocks then this is a "them" problem. Is it reasonable to expect a car with FSH to eat itself after seven months?
Do I have to say it again? I must have posted this on the forum a hundred times now. "Just to be clear, can you please confirm in writing that you're refusing to honour my statutory rights?"
Last week was a week of waiting patiently. This week I expect to see progress!
Cheers for the line at the bottom cougar.
Still chasing the correct service proof - i.e. that the correct oil was used! This is 100% not my fault/my responsibility. How do i go about being more forceful yet remaining polite and onside?
quote from the email this morning "
When I left on Friday this was 100% not agreed (75% goodwill from vauxhall) since we're chasing the right service proof. Please let me know, as it was on Friday I had real concerns that the good will was in jeopardy.
"
You sold me the car with fsh . You serviced the car.
The car has not required an interim service.
Surely if you committed to a fsh and serviced the car you have the records to prove that it was serviced to spec. More so the book shows it was serviced by a vauxhall franchised dealer. Surely you wouldn't be advocating your colleagues not following procedure ?
And if these conversations are taking place on the phone. Follow up with an email to them confirming the conversations accuracy to your understanding.
Acts as a time stamped who said what in the who now for when it gets messy
its evans halshaw where the service is being disputed (service 2/3)
I'd be playing it that it's not on you to find that proof, it was serviced by Vauxhall dealers so if they didn't follow the instructions then it's on them. Whether they end up paying for not doing the service properly and causing the failure, or they did the service properly and it failed anyway, both roads lead to the same conclusion - that it's on them. Tracing where the error is - can be done afterwards, they can argue which part of Stelantis pay, you just want it fixed now, and/or a courtesy car while they faff about.
How to actually play it. Firm but insistent. No point losing your rag, get them to agree to the points as made above and then the conclusion is pretty much foregone.
CURVEBALL
Evans Halshaw was the service agent we needed copies from, Motability have provided these copy invoices now, sadly they do not qualify for manufacturer good will. This is nothing to do with the oil or oil quality its simply due to the service being done late.
So the supplying franchise dealer sold you a vehicle which they said had FSH, but it didn't because previous ones were done late. Mis-selling?
What an absolute shit show you could well do without. 🙁