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Service interval/replacement is 60 months or 74k miles
I've done 49k miles and it's 48 months old
Second owner - no extended warranty purchased
Where do I stand do you think about getting it sorted
what's the car?
Fully serviced up till now, incl inspection as appropriate?
Bought from a dealer or private?
Sometimes stuff fails early but that's very early for a car that's had the above done.
Also check - is that info correct; I had a car that broke a cambelt well within the interval, only to find the interval had been changed. Thankfully, it was main dealer serviced so on them for not realising service interval was earlier.
Not saying the car
Bought from a dealer last October
Fully serviced yes
Interval was quoted by customer services today
How to tell us it's a JLR piece of crap without telling us 😂
That seems remarkably low. I can't see how you have much luck with a claim though, unless bought very recently.
Is there any possibility the milage has been fiddled with? Look at the MOT history and general other wear for clues although it's probably too new for any of those things to useful or possible.
I'm not saying before I speak to the dealer tomorrow and no not a jlr
Definitely 100 percent legit car. Bought in October 24
help on where I stand
Here?
As it's within intervals and if all services have been done as specified then yes, I'd be expecting at least a contribution, if not a full repair.
The expectation is that it lasts a reasonable length of time, and I'd be arguing that 'reasonable' in this case means up to the specified interval as long as it's been maintained at the right level, etc. It could be countered it's a wear and tear item (ie will fail or wear out eventually) but that's where I'd be pointing at the service interval.
https://www.whatcar.com/news/your-legal-rights-if-something-goes-wrong-with-your-car/n3307
Thanks Jon that's appreciated
When in October? You’re close to the 6 month limit on getting the dealer to fix it.
from @theotherjonv’s link - “If a problem is found after 30 days, but within six months of purchase, you can request a repair or a replacement vehicle. The onus is on the seller of the car to prove the fault wasn’t present when the car was sold; if they can, and you’re likely to have known about it, you won’t get a refund.”
I'm not saying before I speak to the dealer tomorrow
Why, this forum is full of IT Managers, not car salespeople
If a problem is found after 30 days, but within six months of purchase, you can request a repair or a replacement vehicle. The onus is on the seller of the car to prove the fault wasn’t present when the car was sold; if they can, and you’re likely to have known about it, you won’t get a refund
For most faults I'd agree but where a cambelt's a replacement item, at a specified interval, and this has failed catastrophically long before that despite having been serviced etc. properly...... I reckon you have a good argument here irrespective of the 6mo clause.
Within 6mo would just make it even easier.
smells like a 1.2 turbo puretech as used in PSA and vauxhall petrol vehicles or a 1.0 Ecoboom from a transit tourneo
and if it is - then there is precedent for premature failures so should be open and shut if its full dealer service history.
Diesel
This is one of those cases where the mileage covered can be quite misleading - engine hours can be a more reliable metric.
If you buy an outboard engine for a boat now you can get all the data such as total running hours, number of starts, hours at idle, hours at wide open throttle, etc.
Way more informative than "it's done x miles". It could have been sat not.moving for ages, or done all the miles in town rather than cruising on a motorway, etc.
Hope you get sorted OP.
Aagh 7 months! 20/9/24
If they're going to argue then that's what they'll argue about, but my point still holds.
Most manufacturers have a 3 year warranty these days don't they? And are transferrable between owners.
Yes, but it's 4 years old in the op
Regardless it gets fixed whether it costs me £0 or £5k
Interference vauxhall engine, 12k. 😉
Engine model / code D12XHL, F12XHL I think!
Those numbers confirm Trailrat's suspicions. It's a 1200cc three cyclinder petrol engine which has featured in the French equivalent of a class action law suit. It's recieved a lot of media attention in a scandal known as "Motorgate". The engine being an interference design in which the valves clout the pistons when the belt fails; the engines are often completely scrap with a customer bill of the order of magnitude I mentioned. I know it's in French but I'm sure you'll find an autotranslate thing if you're really interested:
In France the media coverage and legal action has led to an increase in the guaratees (ten years) on the engines and much reduced bills for the owners.
Best of luck with it.
Edit: Yours is PSA/Stelantis but the Reanult TCE is another "Motorgate" engine hense my interest. Roughly 1/4 of the engine type I've got blow up at low mileage. Renault increased the guarantee to 10 years but mine is now 12 so I'm crossing my fingrs it's one of the 3/4.
It's a 1.5 diesel
That I know nothing about. It isn't the engine numbers you quoted.
Interval was quoted by customer services today
I'd get a second/third source of that info, any garage should be able to find it. I'd not just rely on what customer services had read or potentially misread.
It's a Combo Life isn't it ? The 1.5 Diesels are chain, and there is an issue with 7mm chains - they should be upgraded to 8mm.
It is fossy
That's music to my ears
Fingers crossed 🤞
So it hasn't even got a cambelt. 🙂 When the STW forum awards season comes around this one deserves a mention. 😉
Like I've said throughout - this is all on the AA man who attended - I know nothing about this.
From the fb group for the car I've been told it has both!
You'll have an accessory belt that drives things like the a/c compressor and the water pump, but the engine is chain cam. TBH chains should be super reliable and last the life of the car - my previous car was a Nissan with a chain, and I sold it after 23 years and 150k miles still on the original chain.
I've a Vivaro Life, but went for the 2.0 HDI engine which is a belt but doesn't have the same issues, although ad-blue is always an unknown.
If the chain has broken it's serious. If the accessory belt has gone, less so.
I remember the OP looking at a van/person carrier before I got my van, so no spidey powers I'm afraid.
The accessory belt is on the left side as you look at the engine I think and is fine. The AA dude took the oil filler cap off to look inside whilst I cranked the engine and couldn't see the belt so deduced it had snapped as the engine isn't turning over. Nearly starts but then nothing 🤷
TBH chains should be super reliable and last the life of the car
It's not the 90s any more.
Btw from your description of the AA mans checks . I'd get a second opinion preferably from someone qualified on these engines
Too late fossy - you have now invoked the stw van curse 🙂.
This was last year: https://singletrackmag.com/forum/off-topic/peugeot-citroen-1-5hdi-engines/#post-13403624
Since then bouncesuspension has had his 7mm cam chain snap (can't remember if he got the 8mm replacement on warranty). And my 2.0 hdi Dispatch had the water pump go sick due to impeller spinning on the shaft (so got a new belt at the same time) and then adblue pump / electrics die which was an exchange tank to fix.
Recovery to dealer booked
Inspection on Wednesday
Will report back
Quoted 100k miles as the interval today
What about the 7mm/8mm chain issue that I remember reading about on here before. In the services up until now has that been flagged (I assume not done otherwise shouldn't have failed)
Was it MD or indy service, have you had it done during your ownership?
I've not had it serviced - it was last done the week before I bought it at the dealer I bought it from
If had it 7 months and 7k miles
Those numbers confirm Trailrat's suspicions. It's a 1200cc three cyclinder petrol engine which has featured in the French equivalent of a class action law suit.
“It's a 1.5 diesel”
*sigh* I believe the OP had already mentioned it was a diesel. Should have gone to Specsavers.
After the OP had given a petrol engine code number before my post and been highly evasive.
The whole thread is comic. Why refuse to reveal the make and model of car?
Any sensible thread would have started "I've got a 2021 vauxhall Combi 1.5 diesel which stopped and wouldn't restart- the AA man took the oil filler cap off and could see the cams weren't turning when the engine was cranked which showed the cambelt/chain had broken"
Post a quiz, get wildly speculative answers. 🙂
Because I'm not a dick and thought it may be sensible to keep the manufacturer out so as not to muddy waters
Unintentionally yes
and TBF you're still not providing some of the detail to give a proper answer.
You said initially bought from a dealer and FSH. Which is good, but then when the fact it's one of the engines with the 7mm/8mm chain issue it becomes more relevant whether it was a MD (both the service and the seller) who absolutely should know about the issue and deal with it at service or indy who may not have been. That reminds me, is there a formal recall on these (maybe check the MOT site?)
If it's been serviced but missed that fix, then 1/ by a main dealer I'd think you're in the clear as the dealer network is on the hook; 2/ not by a MD then it'll be on the indy that serviced it who *should* have checked the recalls, etc., but the previous owner if they serviced on the cheap may have agreed only to a basic level and you have no comeback really on them or the servicing garage for that failure; so then 3/ on the dealer (MD or Indy) that supposedly serviced before sale but also look like they didn't do it, which makes me think Indy, which then puts you somewhere between a fault present at purchase - but you're after 6mo now - and a known fault that a competent dealer, main or otherwise should have known or checked about and fixed before or at least warned you of.
Lot's of 'if this, then that' in the above that can easily be addressed if you're prepared to put meat on the bones of your story. Which wouldn't involve naming a dealer, garage or being a dick about.
It is a "franchised dealer" whom I bought it from
I don't have the service history with me as I'm away but was a motability vehicle if that makes any odds
Yes, both highly relevant (AFAIK)
1/ a main / franchised dealer who sold it to you should have been aware and done it; if they haven't i'd be arguing the fault/failure was highly predictable and on them. Or very least telling you it wasn't done, so you were aware of any risk.
2/ Motability is a lease and AFAIK includes servicing, so again a MD service has had ample opportunity to deal with it before now.
Was upgrading from 7mm to 8mm chain every a recall or service fix thing? I thought the story from the other thread was 7mm is deemed ok by the manufacturer provided serviced to the letter and with the correct oil. A failure outside warranty is then an argument on that basis. After a certain date they all come with 8mm.
Hmmm, googling suggests NOT a recall but that any hint of failure and it needs doing....
The 1.5 still has a cambelt from crank to cam, but also a short chain between the cams.
Last I dealt with them, there was no active recall as such to replace with the modified cambox/chain, just extended goodwill provided the servicing has been followed correctly.
All services by Evans halshaw and the newest by the franchised dealer
any hint of failure and it needs doing....
You don't tend to get hints of cam belt/chain failure. 🫣
This was completely out the blue!
Of course once it has failed it's too late. Hence why it's important that it is looked at as part of servicing and if there's any doubt, that it is done. Bad phrasing on my part. eg: https://frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=83711,
Why it hasn't just been recalled and all instances replaced, IDK; maybe a calculation that not all fail and the cost of the ones that do is offset by the cost of doing them all. How they factor safety in - when mine went (belt drive) it was on a country road and suddenly it just made an awful noise, IDK quite why but instinct was to dip clutch and I coasted to a halt at the side of the road. If it had gone on a motorway or dual carriageway goodness knows!
In googling also I found another interesting point. From the OP "it was a motability vehicle" which makes me think it's the passenger version; a vehicle used for trade (so usually a van) means you aren't a consumer and don't have the CRA as protection.
https://sellthevan.co.uk/has-your-used-van-developed-a-problem-after-buying-it/
I don't think that just because it's a van that you wouldn't qualify for consumer protection. In fact that article states
The key legal difference between buying a used car and van is that, while cars are bought by consumers who can rely on the Consumer Rights Act of 2015, van purchases are often businesses who cannot rely on this law.
I bought my van as a consumer, (easy to prove, no business registration and my name on the V5) so would absolutely expect it was covered. Not used for trade apart from the very occasional work milage claim for a meeting or training course.
I have the same engine in a Combo Life. It has a (dry) timing belt from the crankshaft to the intake cam and a (wet) chain from the intake to the exhaust cam. Pre Feb '23 vehicles were equipped with a 7mm chain, post with an "upgraded" 8mm chain. Crucially there has been no recall.
It is essential to use the correct oil. There have been a couple of changes to the recommended oil. AFAIK the latest is to a 5w30 oil to a particular Stellantis specification (fpw9.55535/03). I just bought 2x5 litres on Saturday on my way back through France as it is both expensive and hard to find in the UK.
I currently have an extended warranty on mine, but I am considering paying the £2000-2500 to get the upgraded top end put on mine for peace of mind.
Good luck OP. Let us know how you get on. It is likely to be a new engine.
I don't think that just because it's a van that you wouldn't qualify for consumer protection
I know, that's why I said
a vehicle used for trade
which would more likely be a van, but not impossible that a van is owned by a private individual (eg: a MTBer!!) but could equally be a passenger combi used for trade purposes
It was to me an interesting discovery in searching for the recall status, that I thought worth mentioning, not a suggestion the OP was going to fall foul of it.
@troutwrestler cheers dude I'll update when I get Information.
Hoping not an engine!! Sounds very costly. Why do you suggest that?
@bikerevivesheffield If the pistons and valves have collided it is inevitable that the valves will be damaged. The pistons could be too. There is a chance the bores could be scored if anything has ended.up in the cylinder. The chain has snapped. There will be broken bits of chain free-ranging in the crankcase. These could be anywhere.
If it is caught before the chain snaps, it is a big job. If the chain goes it is a much, much bigger issue. I really hope the garage sorted it for you.
Wow just wow
Any idea on costs of an engine??
In my googling around looking for info yesterday, anywhere from about £2000 to £5000+ depending how much of the engine is damaged.
eg: https://www.reddit.com/r/peugeot/comments/1go9vli/peugeot_3008_2018_timing_chain_snapped_quoted/
the mechanic recovering it had a quick look and concurred it sounds like the belt snapping or chain stretching but as it's trying to turn over it's not terminal so will sit and wait!!
the mechanic recovering it had a quick look and concurred it sounds like the belt snapping or chain stretching but as it's trying to turn over it's not terminal so will sit and wait!!
I’ve had two cars where the belt had gone, both had numerous bent valves, no piston damage, and even DIYing cost me well over £1k 15 years ago. I’d say , as above, £2.5 to 3.5k to do it properly.
Thanks for your cheers thoughts for the start of the week
There are engines designed to fail without wrecking everything, cam followers that are designed to snap and even cam lobes that slip on a tubular shaft instead of forcing the valve to bend, typically on diesel engines , kits are available to repair them at sometimes very reasonable prices , however the Labour to fit and do any the associated cam belt etc adds up.
For example the DV5R engine kit is around 500 for the camshafts carrier and 8mm chain.
There is a steady business in buying vehicles that the owners have been told need new engines for vast sums and repairing them , folks with the right knowledge and facilities can buy these from auction- especially vans and make a living.
That's reassuring to know
I had a snapped cam belt on a Xantia back in the day. Bought from a Citroen dealer, serviced at said dealer. Turns out there was a recall on the belt and a change of service interval, both missed by the dealer. Citroen UK ended up paying for the rebuild.
The Combo Life is classed as a car. As is the bigger Vivaro Life.
If that's in response to me / my input - interesting but I don't think that's the definitive factor. Which seems to rest on whether the buyer is a consumer, and hence CGA applies, or a 'business' in which case according to my (and don't put any money on this!) interpretation it's SOGA
So while I may have said that vans most typically are tradespeople, by no means is that meant to mean all vans are - weeksy's bike van for example? Plenty have small Berlingo type shitvans to use for mtbing rather than spoil the inside of your Audi EV, and so on.
Equally, just because it's a car doesn't mean it isn't a trade - taxis must be the obvious example, but what about the half dozen or so Molly Maid house cleaning company cars that do the rounds in my area. I assume the business owner isn't able to use CRA if any of them crap out a fault.
And then what about the real edge cases - a sole trader running a window cleaning business from his clapped out Mondeo estate? Someone who is a self employed chippy and his van is also his main car. etc.
I don't mean to Muddy Waters (again) but thought it interesting as I was reading, that there's an assumption that many point to of the CRA and 6mo to point out a fault and whatever, but that isn't necessarily the case. Interesting enough to point out, at least.
it's owned by me and not the business. It has 7 seats to ferry the kids and associated stuff around as it's prime job, fetching and delivering bikes is secondary
It is kind of interesting, and sorry for misunderstanding your point yesterday.
I've noticed on the instructions for white goods sometimes excluding professional use from warranties, I guess this might be why.
Anyway, sorry for the thread drift, any response from the garage today? Probably too soon I suppose.