[Closed] Smoking is a pretty disgusting habit, but...

Pubs don't have to allow it so there must be a reason they do?

I'm an ex-smoker but have no problem with those that still do. Agree with Binners, this place if full of a certain type of person. I'm glad I don't have listen to a great many of them in real life as it would make me sad.

Fair point about it being controlled though.

the whiney, pompous, i-know-what's-good-for-you, sanctimonious, self-righteous, holier than thou bleating

And the person bleating loudest on this thread is...

Technically mine isn't bleating. Its forthright, booming, angry indignation.

And I havent wet the bed for weeks now.

Pubs don't have to allow it so there must be a reason they do?

Yes they used that line too when there was talk of banning it inside pubs.

Pompous smokers declared that when they banned smoking inside pubs and restaurants. There's still pubs and we've had 3 open/reopen here in the last 12 months.

TheLittlestHobo - Member

You are wrong Graham. I went to the Mercedes factory recently for their big dirty vans.

I asked why there was no air treatment in the facility especially at the end of the line where they fired the vehicles up which I would expect is the point it would be needed.

Ahh my friend, he replied. That is because the air coming out is cleaner than the air going in.

😆 😆 😆

Of course it is treacle.

You'd probably believe a man called Phil Morris that menthol cigarettes are good for your bronchitis.

Passive smoking in open air gardens.....do me a favour and wind ya necks in.

What I cant stand is eating outside and some dirty ****er floats an air biscuit my way....can we ban farts next?

Happy smoker here but I don't go to pubs based on the idiots inside, not the lack of smoking facilities.

FunkyDunc - Member

What I do not understand is that people can drive a car and smoke at the same time, yet eating an apple, or sipping a drink is not allowed

It's no surprise you don't understand it as it isn't the case. 🙂

From a herbal

The Tobacco plant was introduced into England by Sir Walter Raleigh and his friends in 1586, and at first met with violent opposition.
Kings prohibited it, Popes pronounced against it in Bulls, and in the East Sultans condemned Tobacco smokers to cruel deaths. Three hundred years later, in 1885, the leaves were official in the British Pharmacopoeia.

as a non smoker, i was very glad of the indoor smoking ban but this is a bit harsh. it really isn't that annoying.

I'm sure no one here contributes to the 20K or so annual UK deaths caused by traffic pollution by driving a big diesel estate car, anyway.

I'm another one who'd welcome the ban on smoking in beer gardens. I'd like to sit outside on a sunny day with a pint and maybe even, dare I say it, a packet of crisis (or Scampi Fries), without second hand wafts of smoke blowing across my face. Aside from the possible health implications, I just find the smell revolting. Farts likewise, but they're less easy to trace, unless people are loud and proud about them.

Personally, I'd welcome it being banned outright if I thought for a second it wouldn't just go underground / black market. Pubs have become much nicer places to visit since the ban.

However. I wouldn't be presumptuous enough to foist that view on everybody else. So if we're going to allow smoking, I actually think that pubs should be the one place where people [i]can[/i] smoke. That's pretty much their raison d'etre, to be a haven where people can enjoy their little vices; drinking, small-scale gambling and so forth.

A good concession might be to allow one smoking room, well away from the bar and the 'main' part of the pub and anywhere that serves food, well ventilated and air-conditioned, so that people can turn it quietly brown and sticky to their hearts' content without impacting everyone else.

Crazy talk, I know.

robdob - Member

Oh and the tax issue - I'd rather pay more tax

No-one is stopping you.

I know quite a few people who don't go to pubs nowadays in the summer as you can't sit outside

No you don't.

And the pub closure argument - who cares if more close anyway?

Just admit that you don't even drink in pubs anyway.

Well, not in mine; you're barred. 😛

Which is funny, as I have a no-smoking beer garden. 😆

I saw something quite revolutionary in a pub in Todmerden recently.

The beer garden had two clearly marked areas. One half of the tables had ash trays, the other had little no smoking signs.

Guess which bit was empty?

Would this fiendishly groundbreaking idea satisfy the totalitarian 'I don't like it, it smells' Its just sooooo not fair that I have to put up with it! Its simply ruined my day! I think I need to go for a lie down" brigade?

Or must it absolutely positively have to be BANNED?!!

[b]Banned I tell you!!![/b] Because I don't like it. And everything I don't like should be banned! On the two occassions every year I go to the pub, it simply destoys my enjoyment! BAN IT, I SAY!!! I'm saving them from themselves, for gods sake. Why can't they see this? Why no thanks? Why aren't they grateful to me?

Look binbins, if you have that little spine and will power that you can't even manage to give up with the help of e-cigs, then sorry but others are going to have to help you sort yourself out.

Banning smoking in beer gardens didn't bother me that much either way, but seeing the over-developed sense of entitlement from Binners is convincing me otherwise.

Outdoor bans is catching on:

Can we also suggest the banning of following:

CROCS (adult wearing of)

SWEARING

VAPING

REVVING OF CARS

AUDIBLE CAR SOUND SYSTEMS

SPORTSWEAR (unless expensive cycling gear)

CHILDREN

CHAVVERS

HIPPIES

MAXPOWER ****CHBACKS

RAMBLERS or WALKERS

DOGS (Except for assistance dogs or Spanpoocockador variations.)

BEARDS

LONG HAIR ON MEN

ANYTHING HIP OR HIPSTER

SHIRTS NOT TUCKED-IN

ST GEORGE'S FLAGS OR CLOTHING

FEDORAS

TRAINING SHOES THAT RESEMBLE FOOTBALL BOOTS

MOCKNEY ACCENTS

AMERICANISMS

MANDALS

NON-IRONIC BSOs

I don't like red beans, can we ban red beans too?

Banning smoking in beer gardens didn't bother me that much either way, but seeing the over-developed sense of entitlement from Binners is convincing me otherwise.

Ironic isn't it? That that 'sense of entitlement' (if that's what it is) you so dislike has been brought about by exactly the kind of preachy, sanctimonious, everybody-do-as-I-say claptrap being so readily spouted on threads like this.

I really don't see how wanting to have a cig in an open space amounts to an 'over-developed sense of entitlement' though. Its hardy asking for the moon on a ****ing stick, is it? Though for the piddling-your-nickers-in-outrage reaction of some of the more self-righteous on here, you'd think I was asking for the right to casually catapult babies onto spikes, while I was having an [i]al fresco[/i] beer

I don't mind shirts not being tucked in.

A good concession might be to allow one smoking room

When Scotland brought in the smoking ban this was toyed with - but (as I understand it) the issue is that the ban was partially predicated on Health & Safety at work legislation (i.e. staff shouldn't be exposed carcinogenic fumes as part of their job)

So perhaps the solution is an airtight smoking room, where you are served by staff in hazmat suits?

The beer garden had two clearly marked areas. One half of the tables had ash trays, the other had little no smoking signs.

Guess which bit was empty?

Oooh! Oooh! Is the answer the smokers side as they're all huffed that non smokers have somewhere to sit?

Can we ban 'the tide' too - 'cos it keeps drowning people

As Figure 8 shows, the UK’s smoking bans correlate more closely with the collapse in pub numbers than any other factor,

I'm an ex smoker but I think the outdoor ban is too far. In fact I'd like pubs to have the choice of having indoor smoking rooms as long as staff didn't need to work in them. Freedom of choice and let the market decide if smoking rooms were viable.

I really don't see how wanting to have a cig in an open space amounts to an 'over-developed sense of entitlement' though

as long as staff didn't need to work in them.

Aye. There can be a coin slot, a series of buttons marked "Carling", "Stella", "Carlsberg" and "Tetleys" and one tap. Plastic glasses. Bolted down seats. They're smokers FFS, it's not like they need anything "nice" in there.

Hmmm...maybe a fruit machine too.

I really don't see how wanting to have a cig in an open space amounts to an 'over-developed sense of entitlement' though. Its hardy asking for the moon on a ****ing stick, is it?

Ah, so your right to smoke in a beer garden trumps the right of people to sit in a beer garden without breathing smoke. Despite a) most people don't smoke and b) it's bad for their health.

Yep, I'd say "over-developed sense of entitlement" is about right.

I really think the shirt thing should be rescinded too.

Despite a) most people don't smoke and b) it's bad for [s]your[/s] their health.

😀

I find sanctimonious self-righteousness offensive.

Can we ban that at the same time?

I find sanctimonious self-righteousness offensive.

Can we ban that at the same time?

Along with pictures of ironing boards?

Drac - edited!

What we need are smoking helmets, kinda like this:

[img] [/img]

Then you can smoke wherever the hell you like without other people having to suffer, cos lets face it all the arguments about smell and personal dislike aside, it's the health effects that are the real problem.

It's not about nanny states, restriction of personal freedoms, being penalised or anything, it's about you simply not having the right to put other peoples health at risk, you can fart and make all the bad smells you like, but you cant go puffing toxic smoke around in close proximity to other people.

The best analogy so far was the guy comparing it to wandering round the beer garden pissing on other peoples trousers, annoying, unpleasant and rude, but that's still only comparing the temporary unpleasantness, it's skipping over the fact that it wouldn't have potential long term effects, you can go home and wash your pissy trousers, you can't go and wash your lungs out.

Whenever this topic comes up in some way it always amazes me how the smokers feel they are being hard done by, and cant see what the problem is. As a smoker you've chosen/decided that the risk to your health is worth it for the reward you get, those around you have no such choice.

I have no wish to stop you smoking, but have the common decency to do it where it doesn't impact others, wherever that is if non-smokers want to join you then they can make that choice, but it should be their choice to enter the smoke and not your choice to introduce it, and certainly not where food and drink are served/consumed, and definitely not around children.

The pro-smoking campaign group Forest said the measures would not work and may lead to pubs closing

I also find it interesting that the scare stories about pubs closing are often thrown around by 'pro-smoking' groups, and not by the people who run restaurants and pubs. I guess it will come down to what people want more, to go and socialise and have a drink/food, or to smoke.

Honestly, how many people would stop going to pubs because they can't smoke there? You might be disgruntled, you might moan a bit, but I very much doubt you'd stop going full stop.

rNo you don't.

Err yes I do. What an odd thing to say.

Just admit that you don't even drink in pubs anyway.

Oh I see, it must have been post offices I've been in recently that have the beer pumps and bar and barman and tables and chairs in. My mistake. 🙄

Are we all going to have it out in the playground after school?

Edit:

but have the common decency to do it where it doesn't impact others

Ooh, that. Exactly that. What you're arguing about is actually the ignorant smokers that light up wherever, without consideration of others, blowing smoke out of doorways as folk walk along street, spark up when a table next to them is about to tuck into their nice beer garden lunch, or just generally when it'll impact others.

Those are just ignorant ****s, that happen to smoke.

Are we all going to have it out in the playground after school?

Can do, the wheezy smokers won't stand a chance though. 😉

It's not about nanny states, restriction of personal freedoms, being penalised or anything, it's about you simply not having the right to put other peoples health at risk, you can fart and make all the bad smells you like, but you cant go puffing toxic smoke around in close proximity to other people.

Bless.

I understand that its incredibly difficult, in an open area, to position yourself away from someone who is smoking. With that bloke with a gun at your head telling you which seat to sit in. I've tried to stop him doing it, but he's a bugger for it.

Here's a thought. The problem here isn't smokers. The problem here is inconsiderate people who happen to smoke. Engage your brain for long enough not to tar us all with the same brush, and who knows, you might be able to see past just banning everything you don't like.

If they did ban it, on your bi-annual trips to the pub, what would you have to complain about then?

Seems to me like for a lot of people on here, us smokers are providing a valuable public service.

[img] ?w=560[/img]

it's not about nanny states, restriction of personal freedoms, being penalised or anything, it's about you simply not having the right to [i]put other peoples health at risk[/i],

Ooh, spooky same post-sentiment as Binners.

*checks for signs of Gregg's pastry around mouth*

These people who think sharing a beer garden with a cigarette smoker is a risk to their health, do they wear breathing apparatus when in a city centre, bus station, train station or airport?

The carcinogens produced from burning fuel in those locations will be far in excess than what will be present in a typical beer garden.

Don't smoke myself but banning smoking in beer gardens is a step too far.

Seems to me like for a lot of people on here, us smokers are providing a valuable public service.

Yup, you're literally a dying breed.

Here's a thought. The problem here isn't smokers. The problem here is inconsiderate people who happen to smoke

Agreed. But the root of that problem - and the part that impacts other people - isn't the inconsideration, it's the smoking.

Binners - why do you assume everyone who doesn't like the smoking only go to the pub on rare occasions? Weird logic.

Any why should someone who doesn't smoke have to sit somewhere else (most probably inside as most beer gardens aren't big enough to get away from the smoke coming from 2/3 people round here) MORE than you should smoke elsewhere?

Do you use a car? Are you reliant upon a petro-chemical economy?
In which case get off your horse, it's waaaay too high

Yup, you're literally a dying breed.

A bit of gratitude wouldn't go amiss occasionally, you know

Jus' sayin'

Whilst I can understand your sentiment and yes, vehicular use contributes to pollution, I don't see that vehicle pollution effects health so directly as smoking does – either for the smokers themselves or the people around them.

You are simply wrong.

There is no significant risk to someone's health if they are sharing an open space with a smoker.

it is just not possible to inhale sufficient smoke for it to be an issue.

Binners - why do you assume everyone who doesn't like the smoking only go to the pub on rare occasions? Weird logic.

it is just not possible to inhale sufficient smoke for it to be an issue.

[img] [/img]

These people who think sharing a beer garden with a cigarette smoker is a risk to their health, do they wear breathing apparatus when in a city centre, bus station, train station or airport?

I don't see that vehicle pollution effects health so directly as smoking does – either for the smokers themselves or the people around them.

Well, that's awfully convenient, eh old chap? On the other hand, the Environment Audit Committee says

There are nearly as many deaths now caused by air pollution as there are from smoking,

and

traffic is responsible for 42% of carbon monoxide, 46% of nitrogen oxides and 26% of particulate matter pollution.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-30349398

Why have upturned plant pots replaced ashtrays in beer gardens?
RM.

There are nearly as many deaths now caused by air pollution as there are from smoking,

So 10s of millions of cars still doesn't quite kill as many a few million smokers.

What an odd thing to say.

Not really.
I know so many people who wouldn't go to pubs "because of the smoke" (despite there being smoke free pubs pre-ban).

They still don't go to pubs post ban.

Sometimes there is just so much overwhelming evidence one has to call BS.

Oh I see, it must have been post offices I've been in recently that have the beer pumps and bar and barman and tables and chairs in. My mistake.

You're not going to convince anyone that you're an avid pub-goer when you have already stated that you don't care about pubs closing down.

Shame, as there is a lovely view of the river from my non-smoker's terrace, and always ample space. 😉
😆

sorry, did I miss the article about drive-thru beer gardens?

Binners - why do you assume everyone who doesn't like the smoking only go to the pub on rare occasions? Weird logic.

Unlike people on here I'm not lumping in all non-smokers as a homogenous mass, who all behave the same. I'm talking about a certain type of preachy, whiney, sanctimonious type - the professional moaner - who thinks its appalling that the should have their enjoyment of the pub ruined by smokers, yet they never actually go to the pub anyway. probably because they've got no friends.

See also 'I haven't actually seen the programme in question myself, but it an outrage and should be banned'

And also

"We're being swamped by all these immigrants" from people who live in rural Surrrey

To be honest it's not really the health hazard that agitates me. It's the smell of the bloody things.

I hate the smell of brown sauce. If I am staying at a hotel and someone at my table puts in on their plate it puts me off my food.

That's the truth, I hate the stuff.

Should I start looking to ban it in public spaces?

hels - Member

Can I add ugly fat hairy old people to the list of things that we can ban from pubs ? And dance music.

Can we ban people that call it dance music? Do you call all other genres "standing still music"?

[u]Unlike people on here[/u] I'm not lumping in all non-smokers as a homogenous mass

[img] [/img]

"drive-thru beer gardens" - quote of the day !

I hate having to pull over in the car to drink.

There are nearly as many deaths now caused by air pollution as there are from smoking,

So 10s of millions of cars still doesn't quite kill as many a few million smokers.

Coz they're outside, innit

Sorry Boardin bob - I was not sure everyone would understand if I just referred to it as "crap pseudo house that hasn't changed since 1987", but diff'rnt strokes and all that !

where can I get me a fumatory lip wig, I want one of those bad boys...

😆

Sorry Boardin bob - I was not sure everyone would understand if I just referred to it as "crap pseudo house that hasn't changed since 1987", but diff'rnt strokes and all that !

Come on then... fess up. Which of the [b]ban it! Ban it now!![/b] brigade hasn't been to the pub since Colins birthday at the end of May, or christmas last year

Don't be shy.... 😀

Does Saturday night count?

tbh - although I rarely go to the pub as I'd have to drive (because the local one closed) and freeze my knackers off in winter talking to the smokers...

When you could smoke I quite liked the smell of a pub, now they smell of stale beer and sweaty people 😥

You're not going to convince anyone that you're an avid pub-goer when you have already stated that you don't care about pubs closing down.

I don't particularly care if they close down because I don't base my life around drinking and going to pubs like some do.

Then maybe you should leave the decisions on what goes on in beer gardens to us chain smoking alcoholics then?

😀

Then maybe you should leave the decisions on what goes on in beer gardens to us chain smoking alcoholics then?

Given your decision to keep smoking, I'm not sure you could be trusted with anything important.

Tbh, I don't go to the pub because I find drunk people infinity more problematic than smokers..

"Come on then... fess up. Which of the ban it! Ban it now!! brigade hasn't been to the pub since Colins birthday at the end of May, or christmas last year"

i was in three different pubs on friday night.

and ive just bought a pair of old beater bikes for me and the mrs so we can support the local in the village - 45 minute each way walk on the country roads is just a bit much in winter.

Given your decision to keep smoking, I'm not sure you could be trusted with anything important.

Well it means I won't be posting crap on here for too much longer.

As I've already said... a bit of gratitude wouldn't go amiss

I was on a terrace last weekend at the Bocabar with mrs deadly, dd and the dog. Naturally, I was tutting at the smokers.

Taken from channel 4 website purely to regurgitate:

Smoking has a huge cost to the NHS - an estimated £5.2bn - but boozed-up Britons put a massive dent in the overall economy because of the additional £11bn burden on the criminal justice system. All too often, drinking results in violence, either at home or out on the streets.

So sod the personal wars on smoking and direct your anger to everyone in the pub

Come on then... fess up. Which of the ban it! Ban it now!! brigade hasn't been to the pub since Colins birthday at the end of May, or christmas last year

3 nights a week, normally. Although two of those tend to be in a Student Union bar, so I'm hardly single-handedly supporting the local economy.

always enjoy this debate. opinions are so vehemently black or white.

for me i dont really care, unless i get some obtusely odorous filthy fagash degenerate ****hook sit next to me on the train or something, i tend to avoid places where the rats may gather... so im completely on the fence 🙂

21. The main cost of air pollution arises from the adverse health effects on people. The 2007 Air Quality Strategy estimates that the health impact of man-made particulate air pollution experienced in the UK in 2005 cost between £8.5 billion and £20.2 billion a year.

[url] http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200910/cmselect/cmenvaud/229/22906.htm [/url]

Plenty to be outraged about - but let's concentrate on outdoors smoking...the public cost of which is still to be demonstrated (beyond annoyance).

Plenty to be outraged about - but let's concentrate on outdoors smokers...the cost of which to the public is still to be demonstrated.

And there are children starving in Africa.

Do you use a car? Are you reliant upon a petro-chemical economy?

Sadly yes, I own a car, but I try to use it as little as possible and not round town, I also try and shop local where possible, although I can't single handedly change the economy or pollution levels I do the considerate thing and try and limit my impact, which amounts to the same thing as asking people not to smoke around other people, just asking you to be nice and considerate, but when that doesn't work regulation comes in, pollution/emissions restrictions because people wont/can't stop driving, regulated areas if people wont stop smoking around others, it's the same thing although on massively different scales, regulation steps in when it can't be self-policed.

Binners is right though in one respect, it's not smokers in general that are an issue, it's inconsiderate smokers. But banning inconsiderateness is a bit more tricky. and taking his 'who forced you to sit with the smokers' situation, it's the other way around, inconsiderate smokers forcing others to inhale their smoke.

If this could be dealt with easily in beer gardens by a friendly "would you mind putting that out or moving elsewhere, we'd quite like to enjoy our beer and meal without those toxic fumes" chat it would be great, but that's more likely to get you a mouthful of abuse or a f-off than anything else. If that worked then there'd be no need to try and regulate to protect people.

In which case get off your horse, it's waaaay too high

I like it up here, the air's clearer 😉 and my horse isn't particularly polluting so I say Naaaaay!

We're definitely going to be tax positive. We pay shedloads of it on our 20 Bensons a day, we tend to go quickly after a short, horrific illness, and save a fortune in pensions and Werthers Originals.

Like I said... a bit of gratitude wouldn't go amiss