Smoking ban and Smokers

You could say the same about diesel cars... at least in a pub/resterant you can sit inside... everyone gets poisoned by car/bus/lorries/trains just by opening the front door.

Might be an idea to first address the increasing number of ****ers who think it's acceptable to vape on public transport or in enclosed spaces. The way things are going I'm either going to get stabbed or end up on an assault charge over this. D!ckhead facilitators.

Driving an internal combustion engines vehicle is one of the few choices in life which can have such a negative impact on other people.  You can sit next to me in a beer garden and have a pint, and there will be no direct health impact on me, unless you drink drive.  I can choose to consume alcohol.  If someone starts an internal combustion engines vehicle is next to me, I have no choice but to breathe and smell exhaust fumes.

A few weeks ago I was waiting in a bus stop, when a bus and many vehicles drove past.  Again their choice, but it is not my choice to inhale exhaust fumes.

Someone could inject next to me, and my health won’t be impacted.

I am a bit perplexed as to why people are allowed to do something so damaging to other people and have the right to do so?

It isn’t about the choice, surely it is about the choice of not being contaminated?  Should a family have to move house because someone next to them wants to drive an internal combustion engined vehicle?

I guess if you drive an ICE you are against clean air, and if you don’t you are all for it.

Driving yet more customers away from already struggling pubs is a bad idea, given the risks to health from smoking outdoors are nearasdammit zero. And no, I don’t smoke, do you own a combustion car?

Happy to ban smoking in pub gardens etc  but it doesn't bother me enough to worry about a total outdoor ban. Not top sure exactly how or where I draw the line.

Plenty of other things are likely to kill me before the occasional passive fag smoke.

Lots of other people's life choices have a negative affect on other people and I just accept that and suck it up..

Own a car..you are impacting the environment other people live in. I suspect polution in London is equally as dangerous as passive smoking in a pub garden

Ever go on holiday.. see above..

Overweight due to overeating..your diabetes medicine is funded by society's taxes..that affects us all

Lots more examples.

I should add that I dont smoke.

I always have a wee chuckle when I go to Forth Valley hospital - the whole area is a no smoking zone, but right by the main entrance you see patients with their oxygen tanks sitting on the bench smoking...it amuses my odd sense of humour, but as a non-smoker I'm failing to see why they need to do it. I'm sure like any addiction once you are hooked the levels of self-control dwindle.
It would be great if smokers and vapers were a bit more considerate, but I can say that about myself with what I do...very easy to judge others and not myself.
The more control forced on people the more they will rebel, but smoking/vaping is definitely something I'd happily do an outright ban on (but I would also ensure better support to quit is available as well).

It will have a catastrophic effect on the pub economy. Everyone who sits in the beer garden of my local pub smokes, almost without exception. If they stop going in the summer (which they will) the pub is gone. At the very least pubs should be given the choice of being non-smoking or not. Not many will though. This is nanny state nonsense of the highest order.

Driving an internal combustion engines vehicle is one of the few choices in life which can have such a negative impact on other people.  You can sit next to me in a beer garden and have a pint, and there will be no direct health impact on me, unless you drink drive.  I can choose to consume alcohol.  If someone starts an internal combustion engines vehicle is next to me, I have no choice but to breathe and smell exhaust fumes.

A few weeks ago I was waiting in a bus stop, when a bus and many vehicles drove past.  Again their choice, but it is not my choice to inhale exhaust fumes.

this.  Car drivers impact my life negatively and constantly

Nicotine is an addiction and a very expensive one - and hard to break.  One of the hardest of the addictions

As a lifelong non-smoker, the current arrangement works for me (glad to see the back of indoor smoking).

I don't like the stench of it, but it's usually easy to get away from outside.

It will have a catastrophic effect on the pub economy.

Thats the same nonsense folk said about the original smoking ban or the lower drink drive limit in Scotland.  Both of course turned out not to be true in any way.

I am struggling to stop smoking, smokers have less and less places to smoke but I am agnostic on this.  I just do not care enough.

Thats the same nonsense folk said about the original smoking ban

The original smoking ban did have a catastrophic effect on pubs. That’s one of the main reasons there are far fewer pubs now than 20 years ago. The ones that survived did so because people could smoke outside. Take that away and it’s game over for the local pub scene.

The original smoking ban did have a catastrophic effect on pubs

Source?

I'm torn on this.  Assuming the supposed 'leak' is even true.

On the one hand, purely selfishly, I don't smoke so if it was banned outright tomorrow I wouldn't care.  I'd be glad even, if I thought for a moment that such a ban was in any way workable.  I love being able to go for a pint and not have to burn my entire wardrobe when I get back home.

On the other hand, pubs exist precisely to partake in activities which wouldn't otherwise be acceptable.  Drinking, gambling, surely smoking falls into that remit?

On the whole though, I'd have a lot more sympathy if many smokers weren't inconsiderate arsewipes, endeavoured to sit/stand downwind and learned what an ashtray was for rather than pinging fag ends across the street.

Some publicans and other critics say the smoking ban played a large part in this. Simon Clark, of the smokers' rights lobby group Forest, says the impact has been "devastating".
But there are other factors too. There has been a massive decline in the amount of beer people drink, external.

The British Beer and Pub Association cites the rise in the tax applied to drinks - and beer in particular. The beer duty escalator meant that between 2008 and 2013 the duty increased by 42% and this has come at a time when supermarkets have tried to entice shoppers in with discounts on booze.

At the same time as the smoking ban came in, the economic crash was about to start. It had a massive impact on incomes in the UK. Average real-terms pay is still below where it was 10 years ago.

With all these factors happening at the same time, BBPA spokesman Neil Williams says it is "pretty impossible" to unpick exactly what the individual impact of the ban has been.

And of course, many pubs have thrived since the smoking ban, changing to focus more on high-quality food and trying to attract families - including those with young children - who would previously have avoided smoky atmospheres

From BBC

The original smoking ban did have a catastrophic effect on pubs. That’s one of the main reasons there are far fewer pubs now than 20 years ago. The ones that survived did so because people could smoke outside. Take that away and it’s game over for the local pub scene.

What's your evidence for that?

My local is busier than ever.

I am a non-smoker (and lost my mum to lung cancer) but I think this goes a bit too far – yes, stop people from smoking anywhere on hospital premises (apart from a dedicated smoking area well away from entrances). But, in general, I don't really have too much of a problem with people smoking outside in beer gardens and the such – I am not keen on it, but I can tolerate it (usually).

The original smoking ban did have a catastrophic effect on pubs

Source?

There was 9 pubs in the village I live in before the smoking ban was introduced, there are 2 left. Pubs should be able to choose whether they allow smoking in outdoor area's and the government should be looking at other far more pressing issues than this. For those that are in favour of this would you rather people gathered outside the pub gardens and stood smoking in groups on the pavement outside?

Driving a car does pollute the atmosphere.  However I have never been sitting in a beer garden with a running ICE next to me.  Smoking is a choice and it seems acceptable to force others to inflict your passive smoke on others.    A car is a necessity to get to work.  I would happily have an electric car, but economics prevent it.

Agree vapes is a massive problem. A friend is a teacher and the problems it causes in schools is huge, with kids vaping mid lesson.

It's never been acceptable to smoke in the vicinity of anyone else, which half self-aware smokers know. Nobody with half a brain sparks up next to a family enjoying their food, or anyone in their vicinity.

A Rule No 1 campaign would have been a better idea, but I can't think of one of them that's worked since drink driving.

Edit: I'm not a smoker 🙂

This is a brilliant thing. Was in a beer garden/ hotel restaurant garden last night and there was one self righteous pipe smoking &£)t in the whole place making everything stink.  I couldn’t actually believe how much impact that person had in an area 25m x 10m. Utterly ruinously stinky. They can all sod off home.

would you rather people gathered outside the pub gardens and stood smoking in groups on the pavement outside?

They want to ban that too.

What’s your evidence for that?

My local is busier than ever.

More than 500 pubs closed in 2023. 3000 in the last 6 years. So your local might be a bit of an outlier, and busier doesn't necessarily equate to a stable business behind the scenes. There are obviously lots of reasons for pub closures, but this isn't exactly going to help.

I'm a non-smoker but every pub garden I've ever been in has allowed me to sit far enough from any smokers for it not to be an issue. This feels like a step too far for the embattled licensed trade and just plain unnecessary

A car is a necessity to get to work.

I haven't driven to work in about twenty years.

Possibly the reason beer gardens are mostly used by smokers is because the people I know don’t use them because they are used by smokers

As a no smoker I'll be glad to see it banned. It's grim sitting outside with people smoking. Same with people smoking in entrances that people have to walk through.

Not sure if a blanket ban would work though. Surely depends on size of space and number of people?

I was a smoker when the indoor ban came in. Was probably against it initially, then I realized going outside pubs to smoke was actually a really good opportunity to socialise with complete strangers. I quickly seen it as a positive thing.

I'm not a smoker now, so can see both sides. I don't really see any point in an outdoor ban unless there's any actual evidence of harm, and I'm not aware of any. The risk from passive smoke in outdoor spaces must be tiny in the vast majority of settings.

If public health is the priority, then the focus should be on vehicles.

People find lots of ways to kill themselves, let them crack on outside I say,

Ban open fires and wood burning stoves first

More than 500 pubs closed in 2023. 3000 in the last 6 years.

nothing to do with smoking bans though. A lot to do with the massive increase in the cost of a pint, going out drinking being less fashionable with younger people, and the economy having gone down the shitter.

I think you'll also find it's generally non-freehold pubs (which are shit anyway so no loss really) which have shut, generally because whoever owns the building has got a better offer.

I’m a non-smoker but every pub garden I’ve ever been in has allowed me to sit far enough from any smokers for it not to be an issue.

You must not go to many pubs then. Not all have massive gardens - especially micro pubs (the best ones!) which funnily enough tend to have correspondingly micro gardens. Smokers can **** right off from those.

If public health is the priority, then the focus should be on vehicles.

of course, I agree with that, but using it as an argument not to do anything about smoking is just whattaboutery.

@zilog6128

Nice selective quoting, neatly omitting

There are obviously lots of reasons for pub closures

I didn't say they were caused by the previous smoking ban, but a new one isn't going to help.

You must not go to many pubs then. Not all have massive gardens

Oh, I go to plenty - but if I want to drink outside on a summer's day, I'll choose one with a reasonable sized garden. Going to shit pubs isn't compulsory

I was visiting hospital the other day. On the way out,  a guy sat outside getting fresh air (while smoking in “the we are proud of our clean air zone”) in his wheelchair, with his medication pumping  into his body asked me. Can you help push me over the step to get back inside? So of course I helped in. When I got him in the entrance and turned left he gave me s**t because he has to go to the right. So I sent him off to the right.

You know what. Let them smoke. But if they continue to smoke under NHS treatment or on NHS land. Give them some flowers and a free taxi home.

Nobody with half a brain sparks up next to a family enjoying their food, or anyone in their vicinity.

I see a flaw in your assumptions here.

but if I want to drink outside on a summer’s day, I’ll choose one with a reasonable sized garden.

whereas I actually like beer so choose my pubs by which ones have the best beer selections 🙂 Which is generally the smaller, independent ones - not some brewery owned pub with a massive garden. Life is too short to drink shit beer!

I am a bit perplexed as to why people are allowed to do something so damaging to other people and have the right to do so?

Which bit of ‘freedom of choice’ are you struggling with? There are all manner of things that impact other people that you’re allowed to do (thankfully) without needing permission from the government or all manner of busybodies, who would like to tell everyone what’s best for them

I had the misfortune to listen to this being discussed on Five Live earlier

There was a succession of people saying that smoking should be banned from pub beer gardens. It was patently obvious that none of them ever went near a bloody pub except for once a year when they were on holiday in Cornwall where they’d invariably be that **** that asks the bar staff if they can do them a pot of tea

I packed in smoking nearly ten years ago but I’ll always still take the smokers side over the whiny, sanctimonious bedwetters who won’t be happy until they’ve banned absolutely everything so all our lives can be as miserable and joyless as theirs

Simon Clarke and FOREST are industry shills.

I obviously haven't read through the whole thread but this really concerns me, more than anything else

Not sure if a blanket ban would work though. Surely depends on size of space and number of people?

I mean, what next a ****ing duvet and eiderdown moratorium?

If the smoking ban and skyrocketing tobacco prices had a positive impact on people's health then we should have seen a marked increase in life expectancy over the last 15 or so years.

But we haven't, in fact life expectancy is declining. The biggest influences on the lowering life expectancy are supposedly loneliness, isolation and poverty.

It wasn't just the pubs that were affected, it was bingo halls and cafes, the elderly were hit hardest by the ban. The govt may have saved the elderly from the dangers of passive smoking but for many, the only social contact they had was closed off to them, so they stayed at home by themselves and died of loneliness.

Poorer people tend to smoke, so why not make them poorer by massively increasing the price of tobacco. Keep the middle classes happy though, you can get a cheap bottle of good wine for the same price as you could a generation ago. Meanwhile, tobacco has increased in price ten fold.

Of course smoking is thoroughly unpleasant for those who dont smoke, but there are unintended consequences to every action, perhaps the worst being that kids at school are no longer sneaking a flag in the bike sheds, they are vaping cannabis, or what they think is cannabis but is more than likely spice.

Spice the drug that gained traction once David Blunkett up- classified cannabis back in the 2000's. Spice didn't even exist before that legislation.

The nanny state wants to make everyone better but it actually makes everyone iller.

As a no smoker I’ll be glad to see it banned. It’s grim sitting outside with people smoking.

If a publican chose to allow smoking on THEIR premises you would be free to take your custom to another establishment that catered to your preference. Non smoking pubs could possibly see an increased customer base purely because of being smoke free but it should be up to the owner to choose, not the government

I'd like to see smoking banned in all public spaces.

As for "whiny, sanctimonious bedwetters"...

https://nafc.org/bhealth-blog/how-smoking-contributes-to-incontinence/

Well if we all shit ourselves on a regular basis, perhaps you’ll have that to take away the smell of smoke

Take the win

whereas I actually like beer.

Good point, I'd never even considered that as a criteria in pub selection. I can see you are a much betterer more discerning beerist than me so I'll bow out 🙂

If public health is the priority, then the focus should be on vehicles.

of course, I agree with that, but using it as an argument not to do anything about smoking is just whattaboutery.

Is it? I'm not so sure.

To me, it's a matter of resources. It's similar to wasting time talking about putting number plates on cycles, or ramping up police operations to target cyclists for minor offences that pose little threat to anyone but themselves. Meanwhile 3,000+ people killed and seriously injured by motor vehicles each year, and a further 100,000+ injuries. Which one should we actually be spending time talking about if we want to make real change to people's lives with a finite amount of resources?

There's an argument that it could further stigmatise smoking and reduce it further overall, and that might be a fair argument. If we're to look at what people are consuming into their bodies though, I'd rather see that focus placed onto our diet which is currently causing a health epidemic similar to the one caused by smoking in its heyday, yet is being largely ignored.

If a venue can't exist without tobacco, it doesn't deserve to exist. Non smokers make up 88% of the population.

I'm fairly sure social venues were just fine before it arrvied from the americas.

I bet the sanctimonious going to the non-smoking pub also don't drink much and parade their screaming kids, see how that works out. I go outside the pub about once a month and scrounge a rollie and it's bliss. Each to their own. As Robert Puttnam found, longevity can be a toss up between giving up smoking or enjoying social capital.

I guarantee you that if you asked any pub landlord or landlady  which group of people they’dlike to depend on for the survival of their business between:

a) the smokers having a fag in their beer garden

or

b) the kind of po-faced, self-righteous petticoat-soiler who thinks smoking outdoors (and much else besides) should be banned

… you'd have a unanimous 100% vote in one direction

We live in a capitalist consumer society where the laws of supply and demand are king and the customer is always right

Know any pubs that have banned smoking in their beer garden?

Me neither

I wonder why?

"I’d rather see that focus placed onto our diet which is currently causing a health epidemic"

Given your user name, I'd imagine that diet would be meat, lots of meat.

In general I'm agnostic about this (gave up smoking decades ago), except that I was at All Points East at the weekend to see LCD Soundystem. I was in the middle of the crowd and it was like going back to the 90s smoking-wise - I could handle the vapour and the occasional bit of weed smoke, but the cigarette smoke from the people around me was just constant and very annoying. My throat felt like I'd smoked half a pack by the end of the gig. Unfortunately it doesn't seem like there's any plan to ban smoking in festival crowds.

I definitely notice people vaping more than smoking in the beer garden, the fruity minty bastards. **** off with your stupid candy floss smoke!

That said, I wouldn't GAS if smoking was banned outright.

I can safely say one thing…

This thread has made me want to sit in the garden with a cigarette and I haven’t smoked for 16 years :—)

Without a doubt the initial smoking ban had a negative effect on the pubs in the village I lived in at the time, especially the mid week trade. The pub quizzes and games nights weren't so much fun when half the attendees stopped coming! Within a few years at least a third of them had shut, a large part down to the drop in trade caused by smokers staying at home.

Things change though and in my current town the pub scene is probably as busy as it ever was, albeit in smaller bars rather than the tradition big pubs. The surviving pubs in my old village seem to be doing reasonably well too these days.

As for an out right ban, from my experience so few people seem to smoke now that I'm not sure it's worth the agro, is it? If you included vaping I might be more interested but that's unlikely to happen. I certainly don't have strong enough feelings to get over excited either way tbh. Having spent a good portion of this year coming in and out of Leeds General Infirmary though, I have also witnessed the people standing outside smoking who are clearly dying from something that smoking isn't going to help. Blows my mind that one!

For the record, one time 15 a day Marlboro Light smoker, stopped 12 years ago, never been tempted to vape.

The original smoking ban did have a catastrophic effect on pubs.

Not here.  Loads of pubs locally - all doing great business.  The smoking ban had minimal effect on pubs

A car is a necessity to get to work.

Nope4 - its a choice and it impacts my life unfavorably

Know any pubs that have banned smoking in their beer garden?

Yes - I know of a few.  But then we had the smoking ban a year earlier here and folk just adapted

Meanwhile 3,000+ people killed and seriously injured by motor vehicles each year, and a further 100,000+ injuries. Which one should we actually be spending time talking about if we want to make real change to people’s lives with a finite amount of resources?

Many times that die from smoking.  79 000 at one set of stats

The original smoking ban did have a catastrophic effect on pubs.

As a smoker at the time I distinctly remember the first weekend of the smoking ban. I walked into my local - a proper old school boozer - and it was empty. Literally a couple of old dears sat with a sweet Sherry.

However, the beer garden was absolutely rammed. The landlord had ( somewhat sensibly with an eye on his profits) covered the beer garden over with gazebo’s and put patio heaters in. The pub had basically moved outdoors. People who were non-smokers were sat outside because ‘it’s dead in there and it sounds like you lot are having a right laugh out here’

My local here is another old school boozer where the landlord doesn’t give a flying **** if you vape indoors because he knows his market. If you did a survey of all the regulars (of which I am one) about banning smoking in the (tiny backyard) beer ‘garden’, every single one of them would tell you to give your head a wobble

Any pub landlord can put a sign up saying ‘no smoking in the beer garden’. They haven’t though, have they? Why? Because they’re not stupid.

Clearly very loicalised because round here the pubs boomed after the smoking ban

It was patently obvious that none of them ever went near a bloody pub except for once a year when they were on holiday in Cornwall where they’d invariably be that **** that asks the bar staff if they can do them a pot of tea

Nothing to add to the smoking ban arguement.....but that above is literally my mum!! She even takes her own tea bag FFS!

Less than 13% of over 18's smoke. If pubs can't turn a profit from the other 87% of the population then they're doing something wrong.

but that above is literally my mum!! She even takes her own tea bag FFS!

Two of the pubs I drink in will happily make someone a pot of tea 🙂

Less than 13% of over 18’s smoke. If pubs can’t turn a profit from the other 87% of the population then they’re doing something wrong.

Maybe they know their market? Just a thought.

Regarding the comparison between passive smoking and the inhalation of fumes or harm from vehicles well I'm pretty sure the population simply accept this as collateral damage for the benefits that modern transportation provide...where as smoking only gives comfort to the individual. Having said that I accept that the wife smokes as it keeps her calm and gives me a quiet life so there is that.

White van man can get to the building site to do some work with half a tonne of tools without having a fag on. But can't grt there without the diesel engine.  Its not as though he's fuelling rhe motor with 20 B+H or JPS Specials.

I don’t really see any point in an outdoor ban unless there’s any actual evidence of harm, and I’m not aware of any

Err… The effects of secondary smoke inhalation have been known for years and years.

Oh leave them alone, thats their part of the pub. They're out there, all weathers, rain and snow. Just because it's summer and some now want to sit outside, so propose kicking smokers out.

I guess if you are smoker, you are against the ban.  While there may be some considerate smokers who would leave the beer garden to go and smoke in a quiet area of the car park, most are inconsiderate and will happily light up in a crowded beer garden.  Even if they are in the minority.

Either way I don’t see why my health and enjoyment of a pint should be compromised due to others cigarette smoke.

Imagine them trying to enforce a smoking ban outside a football ground.

It won't happen.

Part of me wonders if this is the New Labour government borrowing a trick from their predecessors?

They've not said they'll implement the blanket outdoor smoking ban, just that it's something they're "looking at".

That's been the kind of test marketing of policy that the Tories used since 2019, leak and idea or a recommendation and see how the internet/vox pops/news reactions go and then either adopt or back away from the idea.

I think the SKS government is going to keep borrowing Tory tricks like this TBH.

As for the idea of wider smoking bans in public places, yeah I'm in favour, dunno if Vapists would be included but I'd have no problem if they were. But then I'm not a smoker. TBH though it wasn't top of my agenda, I'd have been fine with them just voting through the age based sales restrictions Rishi failed to put to a vote and saving this up for later.

As part of a wider set of public health measures it makes sense to give the idea a good run through debate and chuck some other things in the mix for that discussion. But let's not use leaked rumours or SPADs secret briefings to choose policies via the court of public opinion. It's not worked well for the last 5 years...

Thats the same nonsense folk said about the original smoking ban or the lower drink drive limit in Scotland.  Both of course turned out not to be true in any way.

TJ, you are banging the same drum after your initial post all the way through this thread.

I was actually talking to my best mate about it earlier, who happens to be a publican (his own pub/hotel).

We agreed that it massively hurt the industry the first time round and he is massively against this round of nonsense as it will affect business again. He's a lifelong non smoker.

But of course your anecdotal observations mean everyone else is talking bollocks

Jesus H Corbett! You’re not Roy Castle performing in windowless working mens clubs every night, where every single member of the audience is chain smoking Carsten Full Strength

You’re sat in the open air in a ****ing garden where the odd person is having a fag with a pint

FFS get a grip. Do you really think this is the kind of think the government should be concerning themselves with?

ASTR - I suspect its actually different experiences in different areas. Sorry for banging on tho 🙂

I have been going in the same pubs for 35 years on a regular basis.  They are as busy now as they have ever been.   I am friends with one of the landlords and chat to him about it all.

dunno if Vapists would be included

ruddy well should be - the argument is identical

Wonder when the pub trade will realise it may bring in NEW customers- those that don't want to have to suck in 2md had fag fumes and chose not to go because of fumes ?

(Certainly puts me and Mrs off eating or drinking anywhere where there is fag smoke.  It's not just pubs, but cafes too.)

Hopefully another £10 on a pack in the October budget to help fill the £22bln black hole

Either way I don’t see why my health and enjoyment of a pint should be compromised due to others cigarette smoke.

****in hell, it's not like you're sat in the lotus position readying yourself for a reiki massage. You're in a beer garden chucking poison down your gullet.

"enjoyment of a pint" - have it at home where you belong.

I was actually talking to my best mate about it earlier ...

While we're sharing anecdotes, I remember the endless debate and dire threats of insurrection prior to the introduction of the smoking ban in Scotland. In the end it was a complete non event. Everyone just shrugged and got on with their (less smoky) lives. I suspect a wider public smoking ban would not actually bother many people at all. The number of people who genuinely smoke just for pleasure must be very small. The overwhelming majority are doing it because they are hooked on an extremely addictive habit. That's why it's not at all surprising to see seriously ill patients puffing outside the hospital entrance.

**** hell, it’s not like you’re sat in the lotus position readying yourself for a reiki massage. You’re in a beer garden chucking poison down your gullet.

“enjoyment of a pint” – have it at home where you

Guess you are a smoker then ? Enjoying a drink in the fresh air, it shouldn’t be contaminated with cigarette smoke.

If it annoys Patel, Jenrick and Farage it must be a good thing.

Never really sure why pubs closing is seen as such a bad thing, they only produce pissed idiots anyway.

I don’t do something that mildly annoys me, therefore it should be banned.

Cycling, dog owning, men with long hair, crocs, indie type music, fried chicken takeaways, ‘Athleisure’, horse racing, Crystal Palace … I don’t do any of them, but occasionally I find than mildly irritating or inconvenient, get rid of all of them.

I don’t drink alcohol and my life would be improved if other people didn’t, should I campaign for a ban? All your favourite pub gardens could serve tea and cheese on toast instead - I’m sure they’d be fine.

But of course your anecdotal observations mean everyone else is talking bollocks

Thank **** you disproved his anecdotal observations with your own.

at least in a pub/resterant you can sit inside

But that's the point. Pre ban the smokers tended to be inside and those who liked the outdoors and fresh air sat outside. Post ban it's hard to sit outside without the waft of someone's cigarette smoke. Oh and it's not so much the health issue that worries me, it's just the smell. Same with vapes, I hate them.

There need to be hermetically sealed rooms the smokers and vapers can go to.

I just can't figure out with all that is wrong with the country Starmer and Co think this is worth any attention currently.

Is he trying to get every cohort against him?

Do you really think this is the kind of think the government should be concerning themselves with?

No I definitely don't. Not currently anyway.

Enjoying the polemics on this thread lol.

I think it should be either vapers or smokers that are banned but not both. I'd ban vapers! Hate the sickly sweat smell.

I just can’t figure out with all that is wrong with the country Starmer and Co think this is worth any attention currently.

Have you bothered to read the reasoning?