[Closed] Smoke alarms Scotland

Who is actually going to check it unless you are a landlord or selling up?

Fire brigade fitted ours for free after our Christmas fire. We've one in each circulation space, interlinked after I added a module to them.

They are not cheap - iirc an interlink and sensor are £50+.

My thoughts exactly about who is going to check.
Unfortunately, I plan to sell and so will have to get it done.
My problem - along with many other people - will be getting an electrician to do it.
Totally ill-thought out legislation yet again.

I installed some 10 year lithium battery ones in the rental flat a couple of years ago - I think fireangel https://www.fireangel.co.uk/home/

I am not sure the ceiling mounted is always the best because of "dead areas" so some of them were at the advice of the chap who was doing the certificate were wall mounted ( small hallway with a door at each end)

The tech worked really well in that the interlinking was easy. no need for an very disruptive mains connection, they have a base station you can interlink to for turning off false alarms and for testing. I think I fitted one heat and 3 combined heat and smoke detectors in a small flat.

Wasn't even too expensive.

I will be fitting these in the flat I live in

Who is actually going to check it unless you are a landlord or selling up?

I imagine in the future insurance companies might ask tricky questions in the event that a house catches fire, followed shortly by the police if anyone is injured.

The interlinked part is "should", so if it's impractical to interlink it's not an issue (eg you already have an existing network for alarms such as Nest but you can't find a heat-detector version to add in the kitchen).

My problem – along with many other people – will be getting an electrician to do it.

YOu do not need an electrician to do it. No connection to mains needed. Its really very simple to fit -took me a couple of hours

My problem – along with many other people – will be getting an electrician to do it.

Do you need an electrician? There are plenty of battery powered interlinked alarms. It needs to be a sealed battery type to meet the regs. Easy enough to fit yourself.

I got these for my AirBnB flat:

https://www.safefiredirect.co.uk/smoke-fire-gas-detection/smoke-heat-detectors/scottish-regulation-alarms/firehawk-alarms.aspx

No mains wiring required.

The cost of these has also come right down - they were new on the market when I did it and cost £200 a unit IIRC. Now they are £50 a unit. Thats from memory tho.

I looked at doing mains powered ones - you take a mains feed from your light fittings and fit the sensors close to the lights - unfortunately the way the flat was wired it did not have permanent lives at all the light fittings so this could not be done

I've got FireAngel ones (2 smoke, 1 heat). Easy to install.

They didn't go off when my washing machine started 'billowing' smoke though (I wasn't there - it's my rental property). The utility room is off the kitchen - which has the heat detector in it. So I guess the smoke didn't reach the smoke detector in the hallway. Had an electrician come round to re-certify it just to be safe.

I’ve got FireAngel ones (2 smoke, 1 heat). Easy to install.

+1

https://www.safelincs.co.uk/fireangel-pro-connected-battery-radio-interlinked-smoke-and-heat-alarms/

We've a big place, luckily though open plan - It took me about an hour to install and 'connect' them.

Less than £200 for 10 years cover - should've done it years ago.

Deleted as it looks like I was talking nonsense.
Will probably get an electrician as I'm useless at things like that. It's clearly not necessary though, only for the easily frustrated!

I imagine in the future insurance companies might ask tricky questions in the event that a house catches fire,

I’m not sure about that. If insurers actually believed smoke detectors were a useful way to mitigate their loss they’d already require them; and could already require interlinked ones (or offer higher premiums to those who don’t have them). Smoke detectors save lives not property.

followed shortly by the police if anyone is injured.

Failing to fit them is not a criminal offence. The council can issue an enforcement notice (and failing to comply with that probably is an offence), but nobody becomes a criminal if at Easter they haven’t got the right smoke detectors. They will however find it very hard to sell their house, or rent it out etc.

Rather than be Ill thought out legislation it actually seems like a reasonably proportionate way of encouraging people to update their fire safety.

Thanks fanatic278 for the recommendation. We've been putting off sorting this out, waiting on recommendations from people who've gone ahead and fitted something that is reliable and reasonably priced. Kinda waiting on Aldi having a special buy 😂

I imagine in the future insurance companies might ask tricky questions in the event that a house catches fire, followed shortly by the police if anyone is injured.

The interlinked part is “should”, so if it’s impractical to interlink it’s not an issue (eg you already have an existing network for alarms such as Nest but you can’t find a heat-detector version to add in the kitchen).

have you read the legislation at source or just going by the OPs post

Even currently if they are not interlinked (one of the few test the building control guy does) youll not get sign off ...all thats changing is the number and location of.... (based on building control visit in november last year) he made me press test and walked through the house ensuring the others were beeping.

I then removed the smoke alarm from the main living space (open plan with kitchen but split level so for planning purposes is a seperate room) and fitted a second heat detector having lived with cooking setting off the smoke alarm for 3 months.

Guess ill wait on the police coming round

It's probably not in the insurance company's favour if you have smoke alarms.

Dead occupants mean noone to claim on the policy.

It’s probably not in the insurance company’s favour if you have smoke alarms.

Dead occupants mean noone to claim on the policy.

I assume that can't be true? Not least because my mortgage company might be a bit aggrieved, but even without a mortgage the estate presumably still can make a claim?

Aye,need to get on with this, by my reckoning I need one of each heat and smoke, and two CM detectors, one for boiler and one for wood burner.

most insurance co's work and operate under ENGLISH law so they aren't bothered.

taken off another  forum when someone questioned their insurance co about the consequences of not fitting to the letter of the law. He has some detection but not what new law requires

@poly It's ill-thought out in the sense that unless you can do it yourself, you may well struggle to get someone to do it for you. Especially given the current situation and even more so if you live rurally. Getting tradesmen to come to where I live is a challenge at the best of times but what with the current situation, it's near impossible.

@poly It’s ill-thought out in the sense that unless you can do it yourself, you may well struggle to get someone to do it for you. Especially given the current situation and even more so if you live rurally. Getting tradesmen to come to where I live is a challenge at the best of times but what with the current situation, it’s near impossible.

So you're only arguing about 'timing' now?

not like this has just been announced, its been out there for a couple of yrs.

I wasn't aware that I was arguing. And I'm not anti it as such, seems pretty sensible. I am annoyed because I know that I'd struggle to do it myself and I'll also struggle to find someone to do it for me. It's also another bill that i could do without.
I've just been trying to get a repair man to fix my washing machine. You can't even speak to anyone. Covid stops them answering the phone apparently. And I've been waiting six months for a roofer to get work done here so I can sell this house and have recently been told that I now have to wait another three months. It's just another job to be added to the list which like all other jobs at the moment is unlikely to be an easy fix.

I'm quite sure I won't be alone in finding it difficult to get this done either.

@poly It’s ill-thought out in the sense that unless you can do it yourself, you may well struggle to get someone to do it for you. Especially given the current situation and even more so if you live rurally. Getting tradesmen to come to where I live is a challenge at the best of times but what with the current situation, it’s near impossible.

So installing a smoke alarm is not a particularly complex task. To do it safely would usually require a ladder and a drill* (although I'm sure if I was doing dozens of them I'd find a way to use a high power grab adhesive and make a little holder for a broom handle! Probably making it a nightmare when they need replaced in 10yrs). It's 5-10 minutes per device.

If you are physically able and the home owner (if you rent its not your job to do it) you probably have the tools and equipment to do it yourself, or have a friend or relative who will help - just like changing a light bulb, or replacing the battery in your current smoke detector etc. The Scottish Government has support available to Elderly, Disabled and Low Income home owners who cannot fit them themselves. People who have physical mobility issues that might stop them installing an alarm themselves are likely to take longer to evacuate in a fire - so may be more critical to get the early warning of interlinked alarms etc. Similarly with rural properties where the response time of the fire service is inevitably longer.

And then after all that its not even a criminal offence, to fail to comply. Its something you'll need to do before selling, or probably if you are getting building work signed off for building control (a lot of which would have needed this anyway) or if the council come and issue you an enforcement notice. Whilst I'm sure not every council is that helpful, I'm pretty confident that very few councils would see someone who is genuinely unable to install an alarm themselves, issue an enforcement notice and provide no support to get one installed before seeking to prosecute for not complying with the enforcement notice. They've delayed the implementation because of COVID but delays risk more deaths in fires.

I'd be more concerned about people scamming the elderly that this must be done and its complex so pay us £300 than being able to find a local handyman who would fit them for my granny in an hour.

*its probably possible in most modern plasterboard ceilings without actually having a drill!

10 year battery interlinked = £50 each and a DIY job, no trades needed.

I live in Scotland in an 8yr old 3-bed bungalow fitted with mains powered smoke alarm in the hallway and a battery powered CO detector in the utility room by the boiler. Which has saved our lives when it went off in the middle of the night a few years back, I had the boiler switched off and all the doors and windows open before anyone else heard the alarm

My wife thinks we should upgrade the alarms to meet the new legislation, I suggested that an easier way to improve safety would be to stop burning candles in the house...

I've got a drill and a stepladder.
I've also got a very worried dog. She panics at the sight of a tape measure - reminds her of a stick I guess - and moving a ladder would freak her out. She's incredibly noise phobic too.
I've got an not 100% secured garden so I'd have to put her in the car while I did the work.
That would stress her out and me too. Then trying to do the job would make me stressed.
I don't have anyone to help me.
And with regards getting a tradesman, it's not only old grannies they rip off. I have also never known a situation like it is now where you just can't get anyone to even give you a quote for jobs. My friends in cities and towns can't understand the difficulty but here in semi-rural D&G it's been difficult for a long time and near impossible now. I know someone who has had to reslate his bungalow himself because he couldn't get a roofer for love nor money.
It's just something I could do without. It's also another barrier to selling this house. I moved here 3 years ago, knew immediately I'd made a terrible mistake and have been trying to get out ever since.
So yeah, I understand that for most people it's no big deal and I understand it's sensible but we're all different and some of us cope with some things better than others. What with living with a leaking roof for two years in one of the rainiest parts of the country and not being able to get it fixed for numerous reasons and then my dog having died and died in a place that we both hated, I've been close to breaking point for a while so perhaps it's not ill-thought out as such but it is something that I am going to struggle to cope with.

No doors in your house ?

But seriously

My wife thinks we should upgrade the alarms to meet the new legislation, I suggested that an easier way to improve safety would be to stop burning candles in the house…

Not mutually exclusive though are they.

Probably not that relevant on here but if you are low income, over 70 or disabled then worth seeking out your local Care and Repair service as some are doing fitting of these. The Care and Repair service that we operate as part of our Housing Association (Ayrshire) are getting funding for this purpose.

@ThePilot,

I wasn't worried about genuine tradesmen ripping off vulnerable folk - proper tradesmen have too much real work to be wasting time conning grannies. I meant scam artists either on a local scale, or even nationally like all the loft insulation firms that popped up etc.

I don't want to dismiss nor over-exaggerate the issues you'll face to comply, but I think you need to go talk to someone. I'm not sure who or why but if you've got a step ladder and a drill, are physically able and the logistics of a stressed dog are stopping you doing this there's a problem. And I don't think the problem is either the dog or the smoke alarm.

I can't help with roofers unfortunately - if you are planning to sell then might be worth talking to local estate agents, I'd guess most will do rentals too and probably have someone that's on their books to cover repairs but I do know from personal experience that getting them to turn up is a PITA, but such are the challenges of being a home owner. But if you are moving out anyway then perhaps my bodge with some strong adhesive and a broom would let you sort the smoke detectors when the dog's asleep. Alternatively whilst getting "proper tradesmen" is difficult - round here there seem to be a reasonable number of handymen/oddsjobs people who will do a bit of anything for a few quid. It might be worth signing up to your local facebook group as that seems to be where many of them are recommended - don't expect them to be great at telephone type comms or marketing - if they were they'd probably not be odd jobbing to scrape by!

Its OK to go and ask for help. If you are at your wits end and don't know where else to turn go to your GP. That's possibly not the best use of their time, but you won't be the mot pointless case they talk to that day by far.

@ThePilot

Gimme a PM, I may be able to help with a roofer. To be honest, in your position, I wouldn't prioritise these new alarms tbh.

I’ve just been trying to get a repair man to fix my washing machine. You can’t even speak to anyone. Covid stops them answering the phone apparently. And I’ve been waiting six months for a roofer to get work done here so I can sell this house and have recently been told that I now have to wait another three months. It’s just another job to be added to the list which like all other jobs at the moment is unlikely to be an easy fix.

My neighbour is a mobile repair man, he's never stopped all though Covid, and our Slater has been over whenever we lose slates (nail rot and we're on his way home 🙂 ).

Rural Borders.

We basically had to get this a few years ago to get our extension signed off, the only addition is the detector in the main living space which is an extra spur from the hall so its easy enough. I appreciate this doesn't apply to everyone or even most folk but it's not difficult or even expensive to do.

The problem is if you can't do it yourself for whatever reason.

My neighbour is a mobile repair man, he’s never stopped all though Covid, and our Slater has been over whenever we lose slates (nail rot and we’re on his way home 🙂 ).

Rural Borders.

Round here you're lucky to get a trade to answer an enquiry never mind actually come out to quote. Even if you manage both of those odds are they will still ghost you after. I'm sick to the back teeth of trades round here.

Suburban North Ayrshire.

First one to suggest it's a fault on the part of the customer gets a slap in the genitals.

@nobeerinthefridge - thanks, will do. It's a complicated job as I had a cowboy in initially and no one wants to pick it up. Got neighbour issues too with the chimney and then I am admittedly a bit paranoid. I am not sure it warranted being called "very insecure" by another roofer (I ticked him off the list when he said there was no VAT to add) because I asked a few questions. I did have someone booked in but he cancelled on me after getting a big job at a hotel up the road. D&G really is another dimension.

@intheborders, why don't you go the whole hog and call me a liar?

I feel your pain, @squirrelking

The pilot - buy me beer and show me some nice routes to cycle and Ill fit the fire stuff for you.

@ThePilot - where are you? I could maybe help you fit them if you're not too far away?

Ooh, jinx! Roadtrip for TJ and I

@tjagain and @yourguitarhero - Bless you, you're both very kind! I feel like I'm being a bit pathetic and should do it myself. Might just stick them up there rather than drill. Tell you what, I'll give it a go and if I can't manage, I'll give you a shout. Thanks again. I'm actually super touched 🙂

You don't even need to drill. If you have plasterboard ceilings you can use self screw in fixings, if it is lath and plaster then you can just stick a wood screw straight in.

I just finished mine last week.

For avoidance of any doubt here is the document from Scotgov

I utilised mains powered Aico detectors, not cheap but arguable the most reliable domestic system. I also use these as part of apprentice practical training

I already had one in the extension we built several years ago. Aico are slowly phasing out the ionisation detectors they are less expensive but optical are better at discriminating against false alarms

Opitical

@ThePilot ex D&G but I'll come down with TJ and guitar to fix stuff and ride a bike.

The OP is a lot nearer you and TJ than what I generally think of as D&G btw!. 😁

@onhundredthidiot Honestly, you are all being so kind. I'm really really touched. Thank you. I am being a bit pathetic though. It was just another job to do - and I thought it had to be mains connected and I'd have to get an electrician but obviously now I know not. And if I don't have to use a drill, that will make it easier with doggo.
Obviously there's a few things going on but this damn roof has really got to me especially now it's started raining again. It's been complicated by a neighbour dispute, cowboy roofer doing it originally, me not knowing the best way to handle the situation, a court battle, roofers having a massive backlog, materials now not being available, lack of labour... and still, drip, drip, drip. The timbers are a concern and I'm about sick of going up and down that ladder turning air movers on and off and emptying dehumidifiers.
But listen, apart from a battered liver, I've got my health, physical at least! And seeing what some other people are going through on here with people in hospital and the like, well I guess I should be grateful.
And I'm going to Edinburgh today to try to sort out this washing machine and things always feel better when you are out of the gloom and doom of Boris-loving, Brexit-voting Moffat and me and doggo will go to the beach.
Thanks so much again for the kindness 🙂

Edited to say sorry to the OP for taking over this thread!

@intheborders, why don’t you go the whole hog and call me a liar?

How about, my Dad always advised that one pf the most important things in life is to always pay your bills on time, if not before. That way you:
- never owe someone you can't pay
- you're known as a good payer, so usually get to the front of the 'queue'

Maybe we're just lucky. Or maybe we make our own luck.

@intheborders
Well that's great advice isn't it? Pay your bills beforehand. I mean, never has there been a story about somebody paying a builder, or similar, for something and them not delivering. Never happened, Not at all.
Seriously, if you're what he's produced, I'll not be taking any advice from your dad. I hate to break it to you too but your dad was talking utter bs.
And how you know when I pay my bills is beyond me.
You just keep being the I'm all right Jack you clearly are and make sure you never have any empathy for anyone else won't you. Exactly what the world needs, more people with attitudes like you.

@thepilot life's too short.

Sounds like we have the same builders though, think I put mine off by asking questions. Was later told on here that's bad form and that I'm failing some sort of attitude test.

You're right, @squirrelking
I think there's just a massive shortage of builders and the like so they can pick and choose. Understandable that they don't want to be asked questions but when they supply you with a quote/estimate that is so clearly deliberately vague, well if you don't ask questions, then you're told you've been a fool when things go wrong.
'Tis very frustrating. Hope you find someone good soon 🙂

It is frustrating - we are trying to get someone to come and do our driveway with a few £k in pocket. So far 4 tradesfolk have either not turned up as agreed to quote without telling us, or one who just kept postponing a week, another week, another week...

I think we will wait the winter and see who can do something in the spring - it is way beyond DIY as it needs either tarmac or truck of concrete...

Tbf I've had no issue getting them round (I want a full set of windows and doors) ..... But then they give me phone number quotes and the adverts I hear on the radio makes it sound like all local window fitters are desperate for staff which suggests I don't want them fitting my windows right now anyway.

YGH, I like Martin! Even if royally pissed off with the lack of customer service it must have made you smile?

It wasn't me personally, just something I saw online

There should be a STW DIY disasters team that just goes round the country fixing stuff for people then going out for a ride on their local trails. There could be a TV series in it.
My dad has just waited four months for roof tiles but at least we are able to do the work ourselves. A lot of DIY is common sense and confidence. We spent a couple of hours over thinking it and then reminded ourselves that it didnt have to look perfect, the tiles just needed to be watertight and secure.

I was hoping Matt Allwright and his motorbike might help me out but alas no.
I'm actually booked in with someone but because of everything that has happened/is happening in the world, he's delayed and is now being wooly about dates. I've even suggested he look again at his estimate as prices have gone up for raw materials. I'm just not sure he's ever going to do it.
One of the reasons I went with him was because he said he would do the whole job again rather than remedial work. Sounds crazy. Until you see the job Cowboy Ken has done and the amount of remedial work needed.
I could have got it done sooner but I was confident with this guy but it seems a lot of other people were too. Hey ho. Lottery ticket purchase it is.

Re Martin, much as it made me chuckle, I think it's a crying shame that people are so desperate for work to be done that tradesmen like him can get away with behaving like that.

@stevenmenmuir you can be coopted on as long as you bring bramble whisky as good as a few (lots) of years ago.

.

A cheery thought, but I wonder what the increase of Asbestosis will be with folks suddenly knocking holes in their artex ceilings to fit smoke detection.

I was about to order a set, but then like everything started doing some research……

Does anyone have any suggestions of what make to get? The cheapest is Anka I think and FireAngel (I’ve actually heard of Fire Angel) seem to be the most expensive.

A cheery thought, but I wonder what the increase of Asbestosis will be with folks suddenly knocking holes in their artex ceilings to fit smoke detection.

probably none,  https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/asbestosis/

there is no need to  be " suddenly knocking holes in their artex ceilings" other fixing methods are also available

Which think the FireAngel FP1640W2-R is OK.

That is one of only two 10yr battery alarms tested that were suitable for new Scotttish regs. More choice if you are going for mains wired. The other one was found to be slow to activate.....

Ei Electronics Ei2110e review

https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/smoke-alarms/article/guides

Edit Amazon reviews very mixed on the Fire Angel. I think I will be waiting a bit to see what emerges as the best for value/ease of use.

Does anyone know if it is possible to mix hard-wired in and battery alarms?
My hallway has hardwired smoke alarms (not interlinked), so am wandering if I can replace these with new wired in alarms which will interlink to a new battery smoke alarm in living room and battery heat detector in my kitchen?
I don't want to attempt to run new wires to hard wire them all in, but it seems a shame not to use the existing wires in my hallway.

I'm in the exact same situation as you, feels like a step backwards going to a battery powered alarm.

it is possible Aico have a module that you woudl fit to one of the mains alarms that will enable communication with battery only interlinked detectors.

Check the manufacturer of the units you have installed, im guessing some of the other manufacturers will offer similar.

guest1
Free Member

Does anyone know if it is possible to mix hard-wired in and battery alarms?

It's inelegant but like most people I suspect we've just added the new linked ones and retained the wired-in. Redundancy is good and there's not really much downside- one more lump on the roof is all

Less than £200 for 10 years cover

Don’t read Fireangel’s ten year guarantee as ‘the batteries will last ten years’. They’ll last 2-3 years and then you need to claim replacements.

Does anyone know if it is possible to mix hard-wired in and battery alarms?

The FireAngel mains powered alarms seem to able to be either cable or wirelessly interlinked. I have just bought a set of their battery alarms and basically you buy the alarms you need plus a small wireless interlink module for each detector. So I guess you can add these to both compatible mains and battery as part same system.

Has anyone had any success finding alarms that are radio linked and don't look absolutely awful? All the ones I can find look like they belong in a warehouse, look fine but don't link or are about £80 each. I'm all for the regulations but it's my home and I dont want to glue something hideous to my ceilings.

I think finding any alarms at the moment is a success, let alone stylish ones. FireAngel have just emailed to say my back order (placed early December) has been punted to some time in the future. Any others I've looked at are out of stock.

I just put these up, they’re actually fine and better than they looked on the website.
Beer for scale.

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The Cavius detectors are quite compact, I have fitted a few and simple to set up.

Priced in between the Aico and fire angel

smoke alarms

I ordered a bundle from Fireguard, semi detached bungalow so don't need a huge number of them. The reviews seemed promising. Went for battery rather than mains to save digging into 1929 walls. They all need to be replaced in 10 years anyway, wired or not.