[Closed] Smart thermostats - self install?

1) How easy are they to self install? I'm reasonably methodical, though not really electrically minded! Current boiler has a wireless (radio) thermostat already.

I can only speak for Tado, but easy. Obviously depends on how convoluted your system is though. With Tado you use their nifty tool and tell it what boiler you have and what thermostat you have and it walks you through it. I don't know it is the same now, but when I did it you couldn't access this tool before your kit arrived so there was no chance of reading up first which was lame. I did email them in advance and check my boiler and thermostat were in their system and they confirmed that they were.

2) What's the STW current favourite smart thermostat? A learning one would be nice I think as we are in the house at different times each day.

Tado for me. I can't remember which are based on learning your routine and which are based on location but for a random schedule like yours you want it to be location based.

Other random Tado cool things,
- cool graphs
- you can add their radiator valves later for the full multi-zone control
- full Apple HomeKit/Siri, Goggle Assistant, Amazon Alexa, IFTTT compatibility

Note that Tado have tended to have Black Friday deals in the past

Hive is currently £159 with installation at Currys. It doesn't learn though but personally i see that as a good thing.

Tado here. Easy to install. There's a guide so you can always check it out and see if you think it's easy. If you can wire a plug then you can manage it.

I did my netatmo but it was pretty much pin for pin replacement for what was there already.

Tado looks like a possible then. Will have a look at the vids as I can definitely wire a plug 🙂

Went the Nest route which we had installed when we had the boiler replaced but to be honest I would have been happy to do it myself.

Nest has full ITTT capability so it will say turn off any 'smart' lights when you leave home as well as power down the heating.

some of the thermostats (can't remember which one) have wiring backplate adapters, meaning that if your current 'stat is supported, they will have an adapter to allow you to clip it directly on.

the non-learning stats often have apps with positional awareness, so they can turn on/off when you near/leave the house. Its also worth considering the cost of multizone (if you need that) - as a lot of the 'smart' stats need multiple installs to support multizone

Nest here as well. Dead easy to install and setup. Also halfed my gas bill with it learning not to switch on when no one is home etc.

Also halfed my gas bill with it learning not to switch on when no one is home etc.

Evohome was reasonably straightforward, just making sure you wire the relay box correctly and then it's just binding everything, the radiator TRV controllers were a doddle to fit and bind. Altho I had the support of the shop I bought the kit from when, a few months later, I had a comms issues between controller and relay box, altho I probably could have worked it out for myself from the manual, I was just being lazy.

which system? difficult one really and I expect everyone will recommend theirs without having much or any experience of other systems or your requirements. If you want to control every radiator individually then it's Evohome and maybe Tado maybe Natatmo(?) now also. I'm not a fan of the learning systems, would rather just have location, heating turn off when the last person leaves the house and turn on when the first person home is a certain distance away. I considered Tado, but there were questions I had on the new to market radiator TRV controllers, which I couldn't find answers to, so decided to go with the well established Evohome. I also felt that investing in Honeywell kit was a safer bet than some recent start up company. I would only recommend Evohome if you want to control every radiator individually, other aspects of it are a bit clunky and ugly (def designed by engineers rather than graphic designers/marketing Dept). Honeywell Lyric might be worth looking at, which is more in line with Nest, Hive etc. cosmetically and functionally

Tado here too - was an absolute doddle. I think I had it all installed and configured within half an hour... and my boiler wasn't a listed model either so I was somewhat winging it 😉

Didn't you have your standard thermostat set up not to be heating the house when it was empty anyway? Ours is set to switch off at 8am (when everyone is up) and comes back on at 4pm when people start coming back in the house.

It's all the times when you don't need the heating on at those times though. You'd be surprised how often you may ideally want it on say at 5 instead of 4 or off half an hour earlier.

There's many an occasion when we would deviate from the normal routine and just having the heating coming on at arbitrary times just didn't make sense.

Installed my nest. Installation Manual was good, plus a bit of google. Happy with it.

If the wifi fails / you don’t have any the Nest defaults to “dumb” mode ?

I assume Nest has ability to track multiple mobile phones to detect when no one is home

Watching with interest, maybe I should buy one

Yes it defaults to 'dumb' mode. And yes you can add multiple phones for tracking who's in and out.

Another +1 for Tado, I was an early adaptor and haven’t looked back, keep toying with the newer system with the display thermostat but in all honesty we’ve never missed the temperature readout that our older system doesn’t have.
When we bought the Tado we also invested a small fortune in insulation, LED bulbs & occupancy sensors our energy bill is stunningly low compared to neighbour & relatives.

And yes you can add multiple phones for tracking who's in and out.

nest 4 wires took 10 mins with help from my 2 year old. Setup very simple too.

If the wifi fails / you don’t have any the Nest defaults to “dumb” mode ?

Hive Home install kits £119 from most places. Just picked one up from argos. Will have a look an the install this afternoon

A hive install depends on the boiler you are wiring it up to.
I'd DIYd a Heatmiser at the old place, but I didn't fancy it with the hive install in this house - not for the sake of £50 or whatever the difference was.

P20 - be interested to hear how you get on 🙂

Slight aside, but even if you install Hive yourself, is there still a subscription fee to British Gas? Nest, Tado and the like are self install and no more pay?

No subscription fee on Hive if you buy it outright.

If you are looking for one the Nest is £150 at screwfix, Hive is £120 (or £100 without the hub unit if you want a 2nd one). Nests have nearly sold out since I looked this morning, limited colours now.

Nest is relatively easy, but be warned that the terminals are designed to take pathetic American low voltage wiring so you might need an extra junction box for the Heat Link part.

woody2000 - Member
P20 - be interested to hear how you get on

Installed a nest. 3rd gen on a Worcester Bosch greenstar. Took 10 mins. Tops.

Needed some 3 core flex and a a small wire cut for a jumper cable.

Works a treat.

Nice piece of kit as well. Very clever.

We've taken advantage of the Hive offer from Amazon. It's £160, including British Gas installation.
Edit, there's an engineer coming to fit it on Monday.

I'm looking at this with a bit of other work around the house.

We have a system boiler for heat and and old style immersion heater for water - which of the systems can work both these systems? - Tried to look online for the answer, but could not establish!

With the current deals its seems like a good time to sort it out!

Update: Tado purchased thanks to recommendations here, 20% off till end of the year

Do you set your timer/programmers to on permanently?

Do you set your timer/programmers to on permanently?

So what's the STW verdict on which smart thermostat is best?

So what's the STW verdict on which smart thermostat is best?

If you are just fitting a smart thermostat there isn't much in it. The difference is when you start to add other elements such as multi zone heating or integration with other smart home devices.

I have an archaic back boiler, is it even worth me reading this thread?

@toby1

I don’t see why not, all the systems turn a relay on to call for heat from the boiler. All the woowoo happens in when and why the gizmos call for the heat.

A mate of mine got hive or nest (can't remember which) installed professionally and his system is more than just a fancy thermostat. There are two motorised valves that are branded nest or hive which are connected to another box branded nest or hive. He has a split system so separate upstairs and downstairs system hence the two motorised valves, but the system is more than just a clever thermostat.

My system is just one thermostat for the home and a second for the UFH system our extension. I fancy replacing the UFH one as I think a bit of cleverness can optimise that part of the system, but I struggle to see the benefit for the remainder of the CHS. We live a depressingly normal and conventional life so all come home and leave the house with military precision every day so have the 5+2 timer pretty well dialled. And if we're out of the house for a weekend or on holiday I'll turn the thermostat right down, so would be surprised if the smart systems would offer benefits. I guess the ability to use the internet to turn on the system when we're returning from a weekend away so we come into a nice warm house would be a benefit in the winter months, but again only a couple of times a year.

I can see the benefit if you lead a far more interesting life as me and are not so regular as my family and am and are always coming and going at all hours of the day.

Self installed a Nest a few weeks back.

All straight forward (although it did throw a wobbler on Christmas Day disconnecting from the heat link a few times for no reason).

I left it in learning mode or whatever it’s called when I originally set it up, the heating was on for up to 8 hours a day but now it’s down to between 1 1/2 and 3 hours a day but it doesn’t feel any cooler.

Tis witchcraft, I tell thee.

I can see the benefit if you lead a far more interesting life as me and are not so regular as my family and am and are always coming and going at all hours of the day.

The advantage with Tado is that you simply never have to touch the thing after you've installed it.

For example, my mum is visiting me for 2 weeks, she never gave the heating controls a 2nd thought - simply walked out of the door with her phone. It is currently 7° in her house at the moment. It will heat up when she is seen to be on her way home. When she arrives the heating will be on and doing its thing. When the correct temp is reached.. it'll do its thing.

wilburt - Member
Do you set your timer/programmers to on permanently?

I can see the benefit if you lead a far more interesting life as me and are not so regular as my family and am and are always coming and going at all hours of the day.

I'm very interested in this thread, but our setup is a bit weird. Our combi boiler is in the garage, the thermostat is in the kitchen....however its stupidly placed as we have an Aga (dont go there, i hate the effing thing...) so the kitchen is always far hotter than the remainder of the house as the Aga is constantly on. Is there a way to move the thermostat (or rather where it gets its air temp readings from) with any of these smart kits?

Old style nest here. While it works from an understanding point of view it is OK as a system. But the learning has made us take a step back as it means it's on when we don't want it to "preheat"

Is there a way to move the thermostat (or rather where it gets its air temp readings from) with any of these smart kits?

Ordered a tado smart thermostat and a couple of TRVs last night. Will update on the ease of installation once it all arrives.

Hopefully it'll be as easy as everyone suggests..

G.

I’ve been looking at a smart thermostat as it’ll no doubt save me money long term as I work some odd shifts so it’ll be easier to switch the heating and hot water on and off as required rather than being on set timers.

I’ve been looking at the Nest but having read this thread it seems that the Tado is fairly popular and a bit cheaper. Any particular reason to go for one over the other?

notmyrealname - Member
I’ve been looking at a smart thermostat as it’ll no doubt save me money long term as I work some odd shifts so it’ll be easier to switch the heating and hot water on and off as required rather than being on set timers.

I’ve been looking at the Nest but having read this thread it seems that the Tado is fairly popular and a bit cheaper. Any particular reason to go for one over the other?

I've got Evohome, it's set up with IFTTT so that it turns off when my wifi disconnects and turns on when I enter a set distance from home.

bigG - Member
Ordered a tado smart thermostat and a couple of TRVs last night. Will update on the ease of installation once it all arrives.

fluxhutchinson - Member
If your going to go for a system like this, go for evohome home. The others havent been out as long and I dont know how well tested they are compared to evohome.

Ive also been told by honeywell that theirs is the only one that can provide boiler interlock as they have the patents on two way communication and actively sue any who says theirs does.

Ive got evohome home in my house and the customers Ive fit it for are really happy with the systems that theyve got.

Went with Honeywell Evohome in the end as the others were either so new that there was no user experience reviews and/or I felt happier throwing my lot in with a large long established system and company where there is a requirement for them to facilitate the remote internet connection for years.

I have an ancient Myson Apollo boiler and fitted a Tado extension kit and thermostat yesterday, couldn't have been easier (if you mail them they'll suggest if it'll work on your system and what kit you need) I couldn't wire a plug without a youtube vid so if I did it anyone can. Was simple enough just to swap the wires from one unit to the next mind.

Couple of calls to Tado to get it configured and checked and it was fully working an hour after I started the job.

I work away at random times/days and also visit the GF a few times through the week, my previous plan was to just never to switch the heating on ever, least I'll be warmer now...

The Nest learning function does look like it could be more problems than it’s worth for my shifts.

Currently trying to figure out if I can use the Tado to control the heating and hot water or if I need anything to go with the starter smart thermostat pack.
Don’t suppose anyone would know??

I know a couple of people with Nest who said the learning function didn't work very well for them. I went for Hive which works pretty well and I wanted the bulbs/plug sockets on the same system too. Might not be for everyone though. My brother has Hive with 3 thermostats as hes got 3 heating zones and I think he's pleased with it so far.

bigG I'd be really interested about the TRV's and whether they truly operate as independent systems like Evohome does. When researching, it was between Evohome and Tado, but Tado TRV's were imminent release at that time, so not much info or any reviews. There's a difference between a smart trv which just twiddles the TRV knob (all you need in a German apt with a communal boiler) and a smart trv which talks to the boiler and can demand heat even if all the other trv's and main controller say otherwise. I wasn't certain that the Tado smart trv would be as smart as the Evohome trv and I couldn't find any definite answer on the Tado website which all seemed to be about using the TRV's in a German apt with communal boiler. I was further put off by this post from fluxhutchinson

Tado TRV's can definitely call for for heat from the boiler. You need a Tado thermostat as part of the setup which I guess gets past that patent stuff, if it is even true, as the TRV talks to the thermostat which demands heat. Contrary to common wisdom Tado recommend you have a TRV on the rad in the same room as the thermostat. That way the rad in the thermostat room doesn't always end up hot whenever any of the rads in the house call for heat.

Most if this info is in the Tado FAQs. They are also good at answering tech questions, albeit with a slow response time at the moment.

Plenty of tech discussion here;
https://www.avforums.com/threads/tado-smart-thermostat.2077764/

Nest can use your phone GPS to see if you are home or away and switch heating on or off automatically. I don't know if all the others can do that also but it's the feature I am planning to use most often.

Hive have had that function from the start km79

I’m about to completely replumb a house so will be putting in separate zones throughout so looking at the best way to operate it all on a system boiler.

You can switch the Nest learning function off

[url= https://nest.com/uk/support/article/How-do-I-turn-off-Nest-Auto-Schedule-learning-and-use-Nest-as-a-programmable-thermostat ]https://nest.com/uk/support/article/How-do-I-turn-off-Nest-Auto-Schedule-learning-and-use-Nest-as-a-programmable-thermostat[/url]

"If you turn off Auto-Schedule and only use a programmed schedule, you can still benefit from your Nest Thermostat’s energy-saving and comfort features, such as Home/Away Assist, the Nest Leaf and Early-On, but your schedule will stay just how you left it."

Nest is the learning system, so possibly the least suitable. if you work completely random

You can of course turn the learning function off. That said I've left learning on on mine and we have it on and off all over the place and it's slowly getting better at predicting when we might want it.

The ability to.know when you're home helps a great deal here.

I prefer Nest tho Tado simply for the aesthetics of it and the information on the display.

Not a great deal in it other than looks though.

Looking at our usage history for this month of the heating has been on at all then it's usually been for 1 1/2 - 1 3/4 hours because of the ease of which to turn it on and off when required as opposed to several hours a day on a traditional one set to arbitrary times.

Nest can use your phone GPS to see if you are home or away and switch heating on or off automatically. I don't know if all the others can do that also but it's the feature I am planning to use most often.

Was reading up on it this morning and it doesn't actually use the phone GPS. Seems to us a mix of methods to detect whether you're home including time of day, phone connected to wifi network, movement sensor on Nest (and any other Nest devices - so improved if you also have their smoke detectors). I'm dubious about this functionality myself - looks like it would be helpful in getting Nest to enhance it's automatic scheduling if you have a regular work pattern but if you don't it will just result in you coming home to a cold house (when you really want the opposite).

1) How easy are they to self install? I'm reasonably methodical, though not really electrically minded! Current boiler has a wireless (radio) thermostat already.

Going back to the OP's question it really depends on how confidant you are. Have a look at the wiring diagrams in the Nest manual (you've pobably got a Y plan heating system - most in UK are). If you can make sense of that then you can probably wire in a Nest.

You need to tap the Nest control box in at the wiring centre. If you leave your current timer in place (and just switch it to constant for both heating and hot water then you just add an extra loop out to the Nest box relays for each of hot water and heating. If you want to remove the current timer (or leave it in place but ensure changing the settings does nothing!) then it's a bit more involved. Most wiring centres are a mass of cables shoved into a load of unlabelled chocolate block connector so fairly hard to disentangle.

I wasted a lot of time trying to just remove a couple of wires before ripping it all out and working from first principles using [url= https://www.screwfix.com/p/ideal-lever-wire-connectors-combo-pack-30-piece-set/6472g ]lever connectors[/url]

Was reading up on it this morning and it doesn't actually use the phone GPS. Seems to us a mix of methods to detect whether you're home including time of day, phone connected to wifi network, movement sensor on Nest (and any other Nest devices - so improved if you also have their smoke detectors). I'm dubious about this functionality myself - looks like it would be helpful in getting Nest to enhance it's automatic scheduling if you have a regular work pattern but if you don't it will just result in you coming home to a cold house (when you really want the opposite).

https://nest.com/uk/support/article/How-Home-Away-Assist-uses-your-phone-s-location

have a look - maybe I misread it as I quickly realised it wasn't going to work for my purposes. I can't see how it can tell you're coming home though so you're house it always going to be cold when you get back if this is used. (whereas it's auto-scheduling can take account of heating up time and will work out when it needs to start heating to get to a target temp at a particular time.)

I promised to update this thread with some detail on the insall and operation of my Tado system. Sorry it's taken so long to reply, it's taken this long to get it working properly.

Delivery took a fortnight from order (this was over the new year period so couldn't expect much better). It was delivered via UPS from Germany.

Install of the TRVs was simple enough but the plastic adaptors are not effective (more on this later).

Install of the smart thermostat appeared to be simple enough at first, the diagrams and process of the online tool is good. However, this is where the issues started. Once installed the new smart thermostat appears to have totally messed up the heating controls in the boiler. Basically the heating was not responding, the thermostat appeared to be thinking that the room was up to heat, when it wasn't. I contacted Tado technical support, it was friday night, no one was around so I had to wait. One of the coldest weekends of the year and it looked like we'd have no heating. Tried reinstalling the old thermostat, it wasn't working. Finally after cycling power through the boiler it fired up, and stayed on. We have SSE boiler care so they were called out and on the following Monday they came out. The engineer was totally puzzled and ended up installing a new room thermostat and wireless control which took some doing and eventually got the heating working again.

After some time tado got back in touch, their solution was that since my set up had now changed I needed to buy another bit of kit, an extension kit. (another £80). They offered no help or explanation as to the reason why the initial install had screwed up.

At this point I decided to let them do the install and paid an additional £90 to have one of their guys install it all. The new kit came in a few days (UPS express because I'd kicked off) and install was booked for mid Jan. It was installed by a company from East Kilbride and the guy had what he called "a right nightmare" doing the install. Apparently in his experience Tado is always hard work. He had to spend 45 mins on the phone to the tado help line having the smart thermostat reset. (not something that was offered to me as an option or even explored when I made contact). Eventually the room thermostat and extension kit were installed and working. Happy days!

That's not the end of the saga though. A few days after installing the TRVs one of them started popping off the valve assembly. The units have an electrically powered shaft in them which operates the rad valve. The pressure of this can cause the TRV to pop off the plastic adaptors that Tado provide. Despite various attempted bodges nothing worked so after some internet searching I found a guy in germany selling metal danfoss adaptors which do the trick (and look better) but cost £14 incl P&P. Being honest it pissed me off that i'd spent a bundle of cash and got lousy kit with a known issue and no help from Tado.

After pushing Tado hard including complaining they now admit that they know of the issue with the plastic adaptors and can ship an alternative batch (only if asked and they won't be retrospectively sending these to existing customers unless asked).

So it's taken six weeks to have the install complete and the system working as designed. It's been substantially harder work than Tado suggest it ought to and to be honest their support hasn't been great.

Now it's working it seems to be good, time will tell if it's just a bloody expensive white box on the wall and some fancy TRVs.

My set up was - Danfoss room thermostat, danfoss TRVs and a Worscester greenstar boiler. Now - two smart TRVs, some traditional TRVs. Tado smart room thermostat and wirelss extension unit.

PS, the smart TRVs do send a demand to the boiler so it will fire up if the room thermostat isn't also putting demand for heat at the same time.

Thanks for the update bigG
I've had my Tado thermostat for 6 weeks now, no issues apart from the hub losing connect once. Found it easy to install on a 25 year old Ideal boiler, replacing a simple Honeywell room stat.
I wanted to add the radiator valves in the future (hopefully they will be on offer as they are a bit prcety to kit a whole house with) but I'd seen some talk about the Danfoss issue you;ve encountered. I emailed Tado, asking if the issue had been resolved, they blamed customers for over-tightening the valves! I definitely won't be buying them full price if I have to factor in £14 adapters.

Interesting to hear your experiences with Tado - I fitted a system for my parents back in 2014 and their support was good.

I know that they had delays with the first batch of radiator valves, and I wonder if they haven't been a victim of their own success recently - very rapid expansion of the business client base.

My mum's system has been great - no more heating boom and bust, everything is just a nice, steady temp and she never touches the controls, even if she goes away for a fortnight.

I've been debating ordering a Tado setup, but our house is pretty new, and was first owned by a sparky who went rather OTT with room thermostats, so we have loads of them scattered about the house.  Does anyone know if an option would be to replace a small amount of them with Tado ones, and simply disconnect the rest?  How would the heating then be controlled in the room which previously had its own thermostat, as the Tado system means that the heating is on constantly (but controlled by their thermostats)

I tried to work through this with the Tado customer service guys, but they just told me that I should replace all thermostats with their ones, so that would be £££