Smart meter query

Took mine a while before the gas started showing.

Unlike the elec meters the gas ones are not as real time when it comes to talking to the IHD. They only wake up every half hour after the initial installation window is closed, and they are not awake for long. Because of this they can only transfer a finite amount of data while there are awake - which is why it often takes the gas meters a while to register for some suppliers.

All depends how the supplier works though - some suppliers the engineer is on site until all devices are paired and the IHD shows data. Others will configure, get confirmation the devices are paired and whitelisted then leave. Octopus are the latter. Mine took two weeks.

Octopus did the install (well a sub contractor) and he did wait for it all to pair and for someone at HQ to confirm they had comms etc...

He did a quick demo, but I think that was just leccy.

Logging into Octopus, they haven't registered our new meters yet, which isn't that surprising (I guess it takes a while for their records to get updated).

With octopus, the electric registered fairly quickly, the gas took a while longer to show up online. It showed on the home display thing quicker. I’ve unplugged that now as it’s reasonably up to date online and I don’t need to see it go red everytime I turn something on.

I don’t need to see it go red everytime I turn something on.

Ours just mostly reads zero during the day as the solar system powers everything - did think the smart meter was totally dead initially until I twigged what was going on....

Got a new meter installed on Friday - after about 15 months of chasing British Gas to report it not working. Engineer came out, confirmed it wasn't picking up the gas and installed a new 'something'. Waiting 15 minutes and the smart meter started showing gas and electricity.
The electricity seems to update almost in real-time, the gas seems to take 30 minutes to update. Apparently that is normal.
Looks like the electricity reading have been accurate but for last 15 months no gas reading has been getting picked up until now.
Probably not really helping other than it was something not right and the engineer installed a new 'something' and it then sorted it all out.

The electricity seems to update almost in real-time, the gas seems to take 30 minutes to update. Apparently that is normal.

I guess as the electric meter has it's own supply, whereas not sure how the gas meter is powered - impeller or battery, or both - either way it will be more power conservative...

Probably not really helping other than it was something not right and the engineer installed a new ‘something’ and it then sorted it all out.

Our new meter is modular, the meter bit that connects to the tails and has the readouts on is one part, the other bit is the comms unit, which in our case is GSM based. So, I assume they replaced that bit in your case, or swapped it for a low freq radio module if the GSM SIM can't get a good signal.

The electricity on our display stopped working in 2020, it was finally changed last.month only for the gas to the drop off.
Octopus too. They're are good to deal with but they are at the mercy if the meter contractors who have a backlog due to lack of staff.

which in our case is GSM based. So, I assume they replaced that bit in your case, or swapped it for a low freq radio module if the GSM SIM can’t get a good signal.

My understanding is you get one or the other depending on where you live in the country. Southern UK is covered by Telefonica on a 2g SIM network, northern UK is covered by arqiva on a radio Comms frequency. The choice of the two in either region are not some sort of option to the installers as you are suggesting. Having said that, I don't know where the line is drawn, so maybe there's a North/South zone somewhere around Sheffield where the 2 options exists, but I suspect not.

My understanding is you get one or the other depending on where you live in the country. Southern UK is covered by Telefonica on a 2g SIM network, northern UK is covered by arqiva on a radio Comms frequency.

They'll be plenty of small villages where you can't get GSM coverage indoors in the south of the UK, esp if you're tied to just one network. Probably a few where outdoors only works in certain streets etc.

In fact, quite common not to be able to get any mobile reception in various village cafes on our cafe rides around Cambridgeshire....

I don't understand the difference, but you might be thinking in terms of 3g or 4g coverage in isolated villages, but 2g might be different, anyway whatever. But in southern UK it's 2g or nothing, you don't get the option. A quick search, sorry I can't seem to be able to link these days without it failing, this might explain it.

https://www.smartme.co.uk/smets-2.html

Probably worth noting in my link above that they note that the 2g and 3g networks are due to be phased out by 2033. So in their current format all smart meters in southern UK will effectively become redundant LOL.

This backs up everything I said. Firstly the north south divide between radio frequency Comms (north) and Telecommunications Comms (south). Then the impending 2g/3g withdrawal farce for the southern region on top of the already smets1/smets2 farce. Whitehall at it's finest.

The utility companies are the smart ones. They get the customer to fit these smart meters, then when they don't work, they just get the customer to send in the readings.
Got you over a barrel!

After much fobbing off by B Gas, this is their response when I raised a complaint:
"Unfortunately, there is a now known fault with some smart meters currently and running diagnostics, shows your meters are unfortunately effected. We are very sorry for this, and can totally understand the frustration it is causing our customers. At the moment, our smart technical teams are working hard in order to fix the fault remotely with the aim being the first half of 2023."

It has been off since June 2022.....

I have a prepayment electric meter that is 4 years of not working.  I spent hours trying to get it sorted including staying in 3 times when the fitter was supposed to have come out.  I have now given up.  Silence from Scottish power for over a year

My electricity meter starting working about a year after it was fitted
Two years and I still have to send gas meter readings

The utility companies are the smart ones. They get the customer to fit these smart meters, then when they don’t work, they just get the customer to send in the readings.
Got you over a barrel!

I don’t really understand the angst over smart meters. I had to send meter readings in before it was fitted, it didn’t cost me anything to have it fitted, if it stops working, I’m in no worse position than I was prior to it being fitted.

I don’t really understand the angst over smart meters. I had to send meter readings in before it was fitted, it didn’t cost me anything to have it fitted, if it stops working, I’m in no worse position than I was prior to it being fitted.

I find the data they produce to be the best way of highlighting appliances with high energy usage. I can then do something about it (example - an electric use spike at night could only be the dish washer). I cannot see this by taking weekly meter readings.

Obviously, if energy was cheap I wouldn't be bothered (I would as I also like to be environmentaly friendly). But they have managed to abandon their responsibility to take readings (somebodies job) and fail to give data to customers who want to reduce consumption whilst making records profits.

12 months+ to sort it during an energy/cost of living crisis isn't good enough in my opinion.

It took three months and a phone call for ours to start working.

If you have smart meters, I found the Loop ap on my phone to be way better than the supplier provided smart screen things that kept losing connection. Lots more ways of seeing your usage, and works for both Gas and Electricity.

I'm still dragging my heels over this; Ovo Energy are trying to force me into getting a smart meter for our electricity supply as we still have a traditional one that they say is no longer certified. So, come and re-certify it if you're that fussed... We've only the one supply, no gas out here on the farm.
Meantime, I don't particularly want a smart meter that uses extra power to tell me what I already know. Especially when I hear all the stories about the grief that they seem to cause. The whole smart meter thing seems to me to be a complete con from eth companies making and selling them. We don't need them, they're such a waste of resources, making and running millions of them when the application of a tiny scrap of common sense bypasses any claimed benefits.
Rant over..

I find the data they produce to be the best way of highlighting appliances with high energy usage. I can then do something about it (example – an electric use spike at night could only be the dish washer). I cannot see this by taking weekly meter readings.

Really? You needed a smart meter to figure that out?

(Simple general rule - the things that use the most power also generate the most heat)

If you have smart meters, I found the Loop ap on my phone to be way better than the supplier provided smart screen things that kept losing connection. Lots more ways of seeing your usage, and works for both Gas and Electricity.

Similar suggestion.
Our IHD doesnt show gas for some reason, but it does show up on the app, so must be getting through to the provider.

Ive looked at two apps: Loop, and Hugo. I prefer Hugo.

The whole smart meter thing seems to me to be a complete con from eth companies making and selling them. We don’t need them, they’re such a waste of resources, making and running millions of them when the application of a tiny scrap of common sense bypasses any claimed benefits.

Im confident that they are a hugely important part of the future of energy management .

The "In Home Display" is a 'nice to have'. It does a certain amount of power saving in as much as the homeowner can see how much cash they are spending live. It reminds you to turn lights and devices off! its a form of "Gamification"

But much more important is the live consumption data being reported back to Big Brother.
being able to model consumption accurately (regional consumption, to within a few KWh, at 15 second intervals, for instance) will save a huge amount in avoided surplus energy production.

Its all part of "Internet of Things", another thing which is wildly undersold.
Wifi on a washing machine is stupid, when its sending notifications to your phone to tell you the washing is done.

But Wifi on your washing machine is smart, when it is used to set your washing machine up in the evening, and then the "system" can make all the washing machines on your road take it in turns to run the wash overnight, or lets your smart meter draw power from your car battery (which is on charge on the drive) to reduce spikes in power draw, while also ensuring your washing is done and your car is fully charged by the time you get up.

Really? You needed a smart meter to figure that out?

(Simple general rule – the things that use the most power also generate the most heat)

That was an example to illustrate a use. Good trolling 😩

What I would use it for are:
1. To see if my new weather compensation saves gas
2. Does changing my heating design to DHW priority make it more efficient.
I could go on.....

My energy bills are already very low, so I need data to see where the remaining waste may lie.

The point is, the energy companies aren't providing the data to consumers.

Those apps (Loop, Hugo) need your smart meter to work and broadcast the data. They don't when they don't work.

I don’t really understand the angst over smart meters. I had to send meter readings in before it was fitted, it didn’t cost me anything to have it fitted, if it stops working, I’m in no worse position than I was prior to it being fitted.

Love them or hate them they're not free, you've paid for it and will continue paying for decades to come. Estimates a couple of years ago in the FT put the programme cost at around £14 billion.

Love them or hate them they’re not free, you’ve paid for it and will continue paying for decades to come. Estimates a couple of years ago in the FT put the programme cost at around £14 billion.

Just to put that through the 'is that a big number' checker, that works out as ~£725 per household. My hunch is that the efficiency savings of having a smarter grid will offset that in far shorter time than 'decades' although I don't have the data to back that hunch up.

I think most energy suppliers have failed to get the public on board with smart meters by saying 'if you get the little display it'll help you save money'. As far as I can tell, Octopus seem to be the only company saying 'we'll give you cheaper energy when it's cheaper for us, but we need the smart meter to help us do that'. It' certaibnly what got me on board and one of the first things I did when I moved into this house a few weeks ago was arrange for a smart meter to be installed.

Yeah. But I’ll pay for it whether I get one or not.

Might as well get one, then.

My hunch is that the efficiency savings of having a smarter grid will offset that in far shorter time than ‘decades’ although I don’t have the data to back that hunch up.

I suspect not, IIRC I've read somewhere that most people just lose interest after a month or so.

There is also a thing called the 'Compensation effect' which I was reading about the other day to do with house insulation, people insulate their property, save money and then just modify their lifestyle to use more energy in some way as it's 'free'. Net result, they end up using the same in end...

Interestingly, our home display just says 0 pretty much most of the day as the solar / battery power the house and it doesn't know about them.

I don’t really understand the angst over smart meters.

and

Especially when I hear all the stories about the grief that they seem to cause.

I don't either. The only "grief" is that the smart bit doesn't work so, what, you're in exactly the same position you were to start with? Sure, of course there's going to be examples of mistakes made but the same is true of traditional meters. Most other arguments seem to be either stubbornness or tinfoil-hattery.

The killer app for me is that I don't have to crawl around in cupboards every month / quarter to submit readings, and have a little man poking about in my home periodically to make sure I'm not lying. In the new place I have to move furniture around to get at the gas meter. Life's to short for that crap.

The killer app for me is that I don’t have to crawl around in cupboards every month / quarter to submit readings, and have a little man poking about in my home periodically to make sure I’m not lying

I really look forward to the 21st of each month as I quite like keeping tabs on our energy usage and updating my Excel sheet! I don't think we've ever had someone come and take a reading of our electricity meter in 25 years - wouldn't know if they read the gas as that's outside.

Maybe I need my tinfoil hat but government / energy companies are hardly renowned for doing stuff for the good of folk and to reduce their energy costs / usage.

As a result I am not having a smart meter.  I have a gadget to show real time usage anyway but I got bored of it so it languishes unused

A smart meter would make zero difference to my consumption anyway. I know what uses energy and what does not

Smar5t meters themselves have embedded energy and also use energy to be smart ( presumably tiny amounts tho)

Rebound effect: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jan/01/rebound-effect-cancels-out-home-insulations-impact-on-gas-use-study

The new smart meter should save us money..

As soon as ours is working (as in talking to Octopus HQ) we can jump to one of their smart tariffs and charge our battery at night on cheap leccy and use that all day (only till about March / April when we will probably generate enough solar to be self sufficient).

Maybe I need my tinfoil hat but government / energy companies are hardly renowned for doing stuff for the good of folk and to reduce their energy costs / usage.

That's the same argument as "I'm not having my covid vaccine because Big Pharma / governments can't be trusted."

The only “grief” is that the smart bit doesn’t work so, what, you’re in exactly the same position you were to start with?

You're not, you've paid for a smart meter and haven't got one.

TBF though, the recent massive increases in energy costs have greatly improved the part of the business case for them which relied on changing consumer behaviour, even offsetting the program cost increases caused by delays in rollout.

You’re not, you’ve paid for a smart meter and haven’t got one.

So like I said, "you’re in exactly the same position you were to start with"

You don't pay for a smart meter beyond the possibly tenuous "we all pay for it" argument.

You don’t pay for a smart meter beyond the possibly tenuous “we all pay for it” argument.

In other fairy tails you also don't pay for the bins to be emptied the roads to be maintained or the grass at the park to be cut

Maybe I need my tinfoil hat but government / energy companies are hardly renowned for doing stuff for the good of folk and to reduce their energy costs / usage.

I'm on a tariff that couldn't be operated without a smart meter, it's linked to the daily wholesale prices. On Sunday I paid 16.95ppkwh (incl. VAT), today I'll pay 19.52ppkwh (incl.VAT). How much are you currently paying for electric?

You’re not, you’ve paid for a smart meter and haven’t got one.

So like I said, “you’re in exactly the same position you were to start with”

You don’t pay for a smart meter beyond the possibly tenuous “we all pay for it” argument.

Desperate stuff Cougar. You're that bloke from the xkcd cartoon who thinks someone on the internet is wrong, aren't you?

In other fairy tails you also don’t pay for the bins to be emptied the roads to be maintained or the grass at the park to be cut

Regardless, what you pay for the meter doesn't change whether you have a dumb meter, a smart meter or a smart meter whose 'smart' bit doesn't work. You don't get a council tax rebate for taking your waste to the tip yourself instead of putting the bins out.

Do you get a rebate for providing free labour to the electric company while doing your own meter reading ? -while simultaneously being charged for the smart meter installs going on across the country.

I don't understand what point you're trying to make.

There is no extra charge to an individual home to have a smart meter installed. It is "free," whether or not we do or don't all pay collectively is neither here nor there.

So, the argument that "I don't want a smart meter because if it doesn't work then I'll have paid for something I haven't got" is nonsensical. You've already paid whatever it is you believe you're paying whether you get one or not.

Does anyone have an Octopus referral code that I could use please? I have already joined but can still apply a code to get the discount.

Conversely is anyone would like a referral code from me let me know.

@mjrose have sent you a dm

I don’t understand what point you’re trying to make.

You are paying for the meter installs going on regardless of you having your head in the sand on the matter - it's not tenuous it's a fact. Your choosing to ignore it your paying for it as is every other grid connected user in the UK.

So if you are paying for it, you may as well have one. It’s not like you get a discount for opting out.

Do you get a rebate for providing free labour to the electric company while doing your own meter reading ? -while simultaneously being charged for the smart meter installs going on across the country.

You're still charged for the meter installs going on across the country whether or not you read the meter yourself...

I don’t really understand the angst over smart meters.

Because if they've installed one and it doesn't work then it means Bill Gates is using all the bandwidth to track the microchip in your arm.

The problem with smart meters is you think they are working and they are not . If you don’t throughly check your bills and see that it’s estimates based on estimates then they could be way off . I was a bit lapse with it and didn’t check throughly until my bill went up to £950 a month . It was a mistake on their part but I assumed that the smart meters were connected when they were not .

You’re still charged for the meter installs going on across the country whether or not you read the meter yourself…

oh i know that - my question was for cougar to clarify how he thought it worked.

I like my smart meter - until i got it they were not paying me for my generation likewise i get rebates based on using less power at certain times.

Bill last month(December) was £16.86. without my smart meter it would have been £85

oh i know that – my question was for cougar to clarify how he thought it worked.

I don't know. I don't overly care, there's little I can do to change it. I'm assuming from your question that the cost is passed back to the consumer somehow either directly or indirectly, but then isn't everything? 🤷‍♂️

Looks like ours has partially registered with Octopus now.

Their App is showing electricity usage by day for this week (which is correct), but also says 'We can't connect to your smart meter yet'!

Getting there....