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...as well as a caravan eldest needs transport.
He's looking at Blingo / Kangoo / Connect LWB to Dispatch/Partner sized wagons.
Main use is commuting, bike rides at weekends, occasionally sleeping in the back next to a bike. He will do a very basic fit out.
Needs to be cheap to run, reliable, ideally not melting in rust.
Here's the challenge: it's got to be under £4k...
So, what to avoid, what to look for, gems and insight please.
Edited to add - I'm talking about the Multispace version with windows and back seats as they are less hammered than the equivalent vans.
Berlingo, condition to suit budget.
Galvanised so resist rust better than Fords.
Early M59 (2002 - 2009 iirc) are basic, easy to fix and absolutely dirt cheap to run.
2.0 Hdi is better engine than the 1.6.
Later models are a bit plusher inside.
Bootjumps (Amdro & Campal) make a basic micro camper. You can get single units that allow sleeping and bike storage.
Im a big fan of my 2004 Pug Partner Escapade (same as Berlingo but with raised suspension and 'offroad' accessories).
But and it's a big but for your son - I was already happily married when I bought mine. Members of the opposite (or same) sex won't get in Berlingo to come to his caravan!!!
Or Dispatch with the 2.0 engine.
Do they come on different wheelbases?
I presume the Pug is the same?
Do they come on different wheelbases?
I presume the Pug is the same?
The Berlingo comes in an L2 version which is about 400mm longer in the body, wheelbase I think is the same. For scale, DH bikes go in fully assembled with room to spare.
Berlingo Multispace = 1 length (apart from the latest models which are available in XL but would be well outside his budget.)
Van version = XL length available in the B9 models (2008 - 2018)
Worth looking at the JDM day vans like the El Grand
After a tip from Nobeer (and months of exhaustive searching for a T5 remotely within budget) I went for a Mercedes Citan in XLWB shape. It's for all intent and purpose a long Kangoo with a smidgeon of German TLC. And it's been great. Long enough to sleep in, takes 2-3 bikes easily without taking bits off.
It's only now the wee one's not so wee anymore that I'm looking to change it for a bigger one again.
Had a gearbox problem before Christmas which needed a refurb. When I was dropping mine off at the gearbox guy in Paisley another one was being unloaded at the same time. 'They go' apparently, so factor that in if one does appear on your radar.
I'd have another, no question.
Yeah, no van in this budget is without risk.
I've been also nudging him to look at the car / people carrier versions of a lot of them, they're often cheaper if you can avoid the taxis....
I’ve been also nudging him to look at the car / people carrier versions of a lot of them, they’re often cheaper if you can avoid the taxis….
Avoid the wheelchair adapted versions if looking at the non commercial variants. The floors are cut and non-standard exhausts. There are loads on autotrader - dealers don't always mention it but a photo of the rear door will show the cut lines in the bumper.
I bought my Pug Partner with a full set of new Continentals, massive wodge of receipts and a tube of sterident in the glovebox - it is/was mint whereas the van variants were tired.
Kangoo 4x4 if you can find one.
Would look for something car based if first car as generally easier to build no claims on, more choice of insurers and less poverty spec.
Lad got an M59 2005 multispace about a year ago. 80k miles and good history but still easily in budget - has just survived an Alps trip (with girlfriend so maybe Berlingo isn't a total turn off...) it is a bit old school but a really airy and thoughtfully designed thing.
My only criticism is back seats are an (easy) unbolt job rather than clipping in / out as it is a bit short for modern MTBs with them folded fwd.
We've had all the generations of the Dispatch over the last 25 years. Pretty rare now but the facelift version of the MK1 shape with 2.0 HDI and hydraulic clutch actuator (older ones were cable) was very well sorted and a convenient size for bikes and sleeping but still "car" sized.
Don't forget at this size there is a real minefield of which models are and aren't subject to the lower van speed limits which might be an issue doing lots of A roads with camera vans and average speed limits.
Really brave and left field would be a Multipla......
Really brave and left field would be a Multipla……
Steady on now, the lad is 23 and has a shred of pride around his appearance....
My lad is 22 and half wishes we'd included them in the list to look at 🙂
RNP must have been a youngster when he had the Prairie......
Check out the Nissan nv200. Did 6 years of weekend race camping out of one with dh and enduro bikes. I had the 5 speed gear box which is a bit revvy on motorway journeys but as long as you stick around 70/75 it’s not too bad but I’d look for the 6 speed
But and it’s a big but for your son – I was already happily married when I bought mine. Members of the opposite (or same) sex won’t get in Berlingo to come to his caravan!!!
My now grown up children are still traumatised by having to be seen in my Fiat Doblo as kids ?
The lads at work liked their Vauxhall Combos ,many worked away from home so the vans were driven to and from digs 300+ miles from home, used in week and they were cheap to buy and run.
I do not know much about them though.
But just another thought as lots of choices for buying them at huge range of prices.
NV200 are not too bad (neighbour has the ev version and seems to like it), but could be a bit pricey for the age. I'd be tempted by the Partner/Citroen equivalent, or maybe a Dispatch/Expert. I have a Jumpy/Dispatch and it's decent to drive and has more space than the Partner/Berlingo. Economy is good as well.
NV200 from me too. Van VED is stupid though, £320, equivalent car by emissions would be £160
Car-derived so car speed limits, gets under car park barriers at 1860mm (approx 6'1") high
Mine is ULEZ-compliant Euro 6 diesel, no adblue. Earlier ones I don't know so check for ULEZ.
Agree about 6-speed^^; they're not as refined as newer vans and basically unchanged since 2009
Most were made in Barcelona, some very early in Japan. Watch the trim levels, you don't get passenger airbags, A/C, etc. until higher up the spec range. IME rear camera is a must and is OEM on higher spec, I added rear sensors because the steering wheel obscures the screen on occasions
Obvious weak points are the rear wheelarches, which have a lip to hold mud, drains around the wiper spindles that block and the drains in the bottoms of the front wings that block behind the wheelarch liner. They're easy to clear, but that's parking under a tree for you!
One broken coil spring in 6 years, plus the usual consumables
My son did similar with a 1.5dci Kangoo. Due to it being short you have to slide the seats forward and have a little drop in bit of wood to make the 'bed' long enough (son is about 6ft) but it was a nice conversion for 1 plus bike, or him and his girlfriend (no bikes inside). They toured round Ireland and a few places in it. 1.5dci engine seemed pretty reliable with just routine stuff. Ran to 140k before he got rid of it as needed a 'family' car.
Members of the opposite (or same) sex won’t get in Berlingo to come to his caravan!!!
Hint - the ladies love some fairy lights. Apparently fairy lights and a van is all you need.
Fiat Doblo. So left field it is actually really cool. Rode in one the other day and was very impressed. Not sure of reliability but guessing it is pretty good as you couldn't make something that ugly and unreliable and still sell them!
Should get a nice Berlingo with FSH from a private seller for £4k easily.
Used prices aren't as nuts as they were, if you ignore greedy dealers.
Might have to get his own Sterident though.
Go for a Peugeot Partner Tepee and you'll generally get a higher spec/nicer trim than the Citroen version. Absolutely loads of these and the Berlingos about so be picky.
Spending other peoples money but this is screaming out at me as one to go see -
Private Sale
Looks very well looked after
All the right noises in the text
Cheers folks - that is the kind of thing we are now looking at. Berlingo/Partner Tepee leading the way still..
Most reliable vehicle and the most charismatic 4 wheeled vehicle I had was.....
A Citroen C15 back in 2003 onwards. Many alps trips. Weekend winer hits from Sheffield or Newcastle to Scotland.
Trading up to a series of Berlingo vans and then car version Berlingo's after that felt like moving to something highly technical and over-designed.
Love simple me.
Hands down my Doblo is the best car I've ever owned, the car no one wants and everyone needs! Turns instantly from a car to a shed on wheels to a skip on wheels. I was gutted when it was written off. I would have replaced it with the same but my driving had shifted to mostly short journeys and I wanted to move from diesel to petrol. Every petrol one I found was a wheel chair conversion though so I bought the next most uncool car on earth a Honda Jazz.
I have a petrol 1.2 XL Rifter. They do exist, but that Doblo above looks ideal.
the car no one wants and everyone needs!
Oi!!!!!! That's my tagline for a Berlingo
Here’s the challenge: it’s got to be under £4k…
I got 30,000miles out of a 2.0hdi Berlingo before the clutch pedal cracked which was going to be an utter ballache to fix on account of it being French. It couldn't be removed from inside the car and removing it from the engine bay meant the engine would need to come out. So I scrapped it.
Cost me £625, and I got £415 for scrapping it!
Depending on whether he can find a really nice one forn£4k I'd be more tempted to buy something a little rougher and just treat it as bangernomics. Really the difference between a 120k 10 year old van for £4000 and a 120k 18 year old van for £600 isn't much more than cosmetics and a bit of refinement. In terms of reliability it's down to luck either way.
I'm currently looking for an MPV NV200.
I think the difference now is 18 year old vans aren't £600 (unless total sheds) and a quick look on Autotrader at lunch showed very little choice of the discussed vehicles within 100 miles of the OP....
Indeed, lack of choice could be an issue.
I have a few to view over the weekend...
I’ve been also nudging him to look at the car / people carrier versions of a lot of them,
Generally much better interior spec, soundproofing etc. A car for tolls (vans can be expensive), cheaper insurance. Unless it was a taxi it's much more likely to have been cared for. Strip out the seats you dont need and store or bin them.
Also, IME I think they attract a lot less attention. Put privacy film on the glass in the back and you can't tell theres a bike in there unless you're right up against the glass (and it doesn't attract attention in the way a van does across a car park).
Remember clean air zones too. Sheffield will charge for the van version but not the passenger one.
He's going to need to get into Edinburgh so that's a fair reminder ?
Remember clean air zones too. Sheffield will charge for the van version but not the passenger one.
This was the reason I bought my passenger version of the Partner (had a Transit van before it) as I live on the border of the proposed Manchester zone.
I should add that I paid £625 at the absolute peak of lockdown Berlingo silly season where every millennial and their divorce wanted to build a micro camper. You couldn't buy a shed for £2500 so you can imagine what £625 with 3 days MOT remaining was like ?.
It needed some minor tlc to pass the MOT, then it took a whole afternoon and buckets of carpet shampoo to get rid of 20 years of smoke, nicotine and dog hair.
The underside was ok, it's galvanized. The axle isn't. Normally they rust from the inside out and collapse suddenly. This one you could pull off chunks of the outside so god knows what state it was in.
It did have 4 new tyres though, so someone had spent some money maintaining it.
Then there's the "normal for a Berlingo" things.
The engine shook at 50mph. Full on bouncing the car. Apparently a common trait to which no one has an answer why they do it.
The brakes are the most scarily bad brakes I've ever used. They're barely better than my 50year old MG. Single piston calipers, disks the size of a saucer, and drum rear. That poor brake servo must be working overtime just to be that bad! Got knows.how bad it must be if you put the full 800kg payload in.
The rear axle was rusty to the point you could pull off chunks of rust and question whether it was just flakes or had you just removed something previously structural. They normally rust from the inside out so being that bad on the outside was worrying.
I'd still buy another.
Prices have dropped a bit. About autotrader, there's only dealers on there. Facebook and eBay are the places to look for <£1000 cars.
Gumtree is great for cheap cars/vans as well now, Facebook is a cesspit.
I half agree with you about a cheaper, well-looked after older vehicle being worth considering (that's what I did for my current car) - but pop some links up if you've seen anything sub-£1k you think OP's lad should look at.
We've looked at vans for the lad for his camping / climbing combo -- for some reason anything like a caddy costs a fortune to insure, no matter how gutless the engine is. A 2.2C-TDI honda civic though goes 3x as quickly but is half the price to insure. Take a tent.
You want an MPV, not a van.
Caddy Life, Berlingo Multispace, Doblo like the one above, Ford Tourneo, Partner Tepee... Seats and windows in the back.
The brakes are the most scarily bad brakes I’ve ever used. They’re barely better than my 50year old MG
The rear brakes are difficult to bleed due to the design of the resourvoir and the brake proportional valve hidden above the rear axle has a steel spring that rusts and reduces rear brake bias. Not many MOT testers pick up on it apparently and might explain yours?
've rebuilt the brake system on mine and it's running Brembo discs and pads on the front - if you sneeze or fart it will put you through the windscreen they are that powerful and sharp.
Remember clean air zones too. Sheffield will charge for the van version but not the passenger one.
Just put the reg number in the CAZ checker... https://www.gov.uk/clean-air-zones
...if you sneeze or fart it will put you through the windscreen they are that powerful and sharp.
The AI needs an update 🙂
So we have over the next few days:
- Berlingo van, already insulated and lined with leisure battery etc
- Doblo van - one owner, summer and winter tyres, wedge of history, has a boot jump...cheap.
- Partner Tepee - seems good condition
- Expert Tepee with old disabled conversion but has been used as motorbike carrier. Apparently has original floor and exhaust, it's a large ramp and bumper with cut out. I like this one. Dealer and warranty.
- Berlingo XL/L2 crew van - I'm not so sure of condition of this one, but it's with a dealer and got warranty.
- Maybe another Berlingo car as well, seems great condition and with a dealer.
Which engine in the Expert Teepee? We had the 90HP HDI and it was dog slow (eg running out of puff and dropping speed on long A road inclines) but nice enough to drive otherwise. Usual 1.6 HDI so needs regular oil changes with the proper oil and make sure there isn't external leakage / chuffing around the injectors. Sold ours at 103 k and still going / not eaten the turbo at 16 years and over 150k now. Creaky slightly clonky front suspension can sometimes just be the arb saddles. Reduces after 10 mins as the subframe warms up. The amount of play to make them clonk is tiny and if really bothered you can buy aftermarket split versions (have to grind the old ones off to avoid dropping the subframe). Teepee should be M1 on the V5c so car limits.
Thanks for the thread! I've been wanting a small van for very similar things to your son (did he get anywhere with accomodation?). But horrified by the cost/milage/condition/spec formula. The car evivalent MPV might be terminally uncool but fortunately I'm 52 and already uncool in pretty much every way already so finishing the job off by driving a Turenao can't make me any more biege than I already must appear. Your son however - I hope he's devilishly good looking and got an awesome sense of humour or Passion wagon it will not be.
The rear brakes are difficult to bleed due to the design of the resourvoir and the brake proportional valve hidden above the rear axle has a steel spring that rusts and reduces rear brake bias. Not many MOT testers pick up on it apparently and might explain yours?
Sounds plausible, if the rear brakes produced even effort between them then I guess that would be an MOT pass. And it was very rusty on the axle. The pedal was nice and firm, it just didn't do much.
If it hadn't been for the axle, and a leak that flooded the drivers footwell, and a few other issues before the clutch went I'd probably have spent some time fixing it up as I loved it's practicality.
as I loved it’s practicality
Berlingo practicality? Tip runs to got the runs and everything in-between! (gurning poo face for demonstration purposes)
https://ibb.co/FzByKKn
https://ibb.co/MgGNscd
https://ibb.co/xGQznNj
https://ibb.co/PWxPYvG
@convert - he has a lodging out in Boat of Garten for now. Off to help move him in this weekend around van shopping! He still needs to be in the throbbing heart of the beast that is Aviemore - not lodging in the woods with a widow with too big a house!
First van, Berlingo, was generally OK, but (his words not mine) 'all around the rear axle and mounting bits was crumbly rusty, some bits 'puffed up' with rust'. So a no for that one.
Second one, Doblo, tomorrow.
One of his old club buddies had warned him off the 88bhp Partner Tepee due to lack of powah.
I wouldn't bank on any of them having much POWAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH.
If you want to feel glad for the limited amount they do have, try the old Berlingo 1.9 diesel (non turbo). 0-60 is 30s.
(gurning poo face for demonstration purposes)
Mine had the full length fabric sunroof, you could have had a poo with a view and avoided the cricked neck.
88bhp Partner Tepee due to lack of powah.
They are easy to 'chip' - mine is stage1 130hp, declared on insurance but TBH the 90hp as standard is fine.
Re. Berlingo rust - the axles (on early M49/59 models) were only ever powder coated from the factory so rust quite readily. The axle trailing arm bearings wear which results in the rear wheels having a lot of camber / leaning inwards at the top. If the inside of the rear tyres is wearing away and/or there's a clunk when you bounce the rear of the van then it needs a new axle (£300 plus fitting) so it can be a useful bargaining tool if the rest of the car/van is fine.
Later Berlingo's have a different design of suspension.
The bodyshells are galvanized so last pretty well.
Mine had the full length fabric sunroof, you could have had a poo with a view and avoided the cricked neck.
With the cricked neck and the usual toilet ankle joint pins and needles the Berlingo isn't the most comfortable of toilets but it avoids the van lifer Asda bag lay-by poo's
I ran a 2012 Doblo for 8 years. Mini camper conversion in the back. Did multiple trips to the Alps and back. It was only the 1.3 diesel but it happily sat at 85mph on the french autoroutes. Reliability wise it was brilliant. Zero issues with the engine. Lower wishbones were a known weakness and I went through a couple over the years but other than that I had zero issues. In fact I'm actually toying with buying another right now
We've narrowed it down to likely a Doblo / Combo, LWB. Maybe an XL.
What's the take on ex postie wagons?
In my head they are a) stop start in our and given a hard life and b) maintained by a company proven to be pretty inept..
In my head they are a) stop start in our and given a hard life and b) maintained by a company proven to be pretty inept..
I'd wager yes and yes. But also - they seem to keep stuff for a long time, not like typical fleet buyers that just offload stuff becuase the warrentee has run out. So I'd suspect they only sell stuff thats no longer up to snuff.
Beyond engines/ transmissions theres a lot of body wear and tear - the doors will have been opened and closed every few yards, seat belts on and off, handbrake applied and released more often and so on - all those things will give niggles beyond general mechanical reliability.
That confirms my thoughts as well.
A shame, Royal Mail are a plentiful source of vans...
Choice between Geoffrey and Ethel's cossited MPV with tartan rug, floral covered tissue box and mint flavoured sterident in the glovebox. The most action it's seen is the 56mph race home after Ethel promising Geoff a 'gummy' on his 70th birthday. Full service history at Citroen main dealer to go with the British gas boiler assurance package.
Counter to that is Pat (who has really let himself go after the axing of their documentary) and Jess that have spent 3 years scratching his nuts and farting Monster and Ginster scented farts into the sagged out poo molecule soaked drivers seat. Servicing consists of the cheapest Flying Happy Tiger branded filters and oil regurgitated from a Saudi hookah spitoon.
The seatbelt is the best thing on the van as it was clicked in on the first day it went into service and has remained buckled ever since. Unlike the handbrake that's used to 'park' the van from 30mph. 1st and 2nd gears disappeared over The Horizon year 's ago. 3rd gear is as worn out as a jailed subpost master.
On the plus side - any ladies that sit on Jess's flea ridden seat then spend some time relaxing in the caravan of dreams are probably a keeper..........or helping fund their university education. Allegedly.
I could go on but you get the jist.
^ STW should ask you to write a column....?
On the plus side – any ladies that sit on Jess’s flea ridden seat then spend some time relaxing in the caravan of dreams are probably a keeper……….or helping fund their university education. Allegedly.
He turned down an afternoon with his unfit father puffing round Sluggan for an hour of leaping into a Cairngorm river with a 'friend'. Turns out the friend is rather lithe, blonde and has a lovely smile...
STW should ask you to write a column
You'd need some sort of nom de plume.
GalvanisedPeugeotEscapade has a ring to it.
#Mattsladslovelife
I’ve started getting adverts for fixodent on my socials
Dammit. That means I'm going to get adverts for commodes on mine.
64 reg Vauxhall Combo 1.3cdti in LWB with 100k on clock bought. Collect from dealer later this week.
Thanks all.
Next question: has anyone cut wheel slots in a bulkhead to mount bikes before?
It's long enough to take his bike wheels on, so we're thinking this might be cheap and simple....
The wagon is here and it's a great wee thing. It's straight from Siemens, full service history.
Even with a roof rack on its just done 55mpg on the way home from Fife.
They replaced the main lock barrel as it was shoogly to get it started and then tried to adjust the gear linkage as first and second were a tad clunky - and ended up putting a new clutch in. It was already wearing two new tyres and a service a thousand miles ago.
Needs a really good clean, a second key, and doors greasing, but all good otherwise.
Another update - the thing only went and blew a bit of the turbo last week in Aviemore.
The dealer have been good - took it straight back in, fired it off to local garage as they were busy themselves, and picked it up with new turbo and pipework all around. Very apologetic and good about it - and clearly frustrated as these things happen, but they cannot have any profit left after new clutch, new turbo and new lock barrel...
Fingers crossed that is it for now!
Edit: should have said: Woodlands Van Centre, Kirkaldy - https://www.woodlandsvancentre.com/
OK not small. But the other day i did see a landrover with a twin axle rear wheel set up. Never seen that kind, but pretty sure it was a landrover at the front end. I'm thinking it must be some sort of conversion
Looked good.
There are 1 or 2 of those around...
Foley SV do them nowadays, Carmichael used to do crash tender Range Rovers in 6x4 configuration
http://www.foleysv.com/6x6.html
Jebus, £295k for a 9 year old one! I reckon you and Mcmoonter could make one for a tenth of the price. 😀