Sleeping bag touring uk ?

Down preferred ?.
Opt for the warmest possible, and if thats too hot in use you can always unzip it a bit or use it as a blanket.

Decathlon do a good, warm and inexpensive down bag

https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/trekking-sleeping-bag-mt900-0-c-down/_/R-p-309272?mc=8575975&c=GREY

Down Vs Synthetic largely comes down to the weather, and how you intend to keep it dry. Weight for weight when dry down is approximately twice as efficient. But it takes very little moisture to completely obliterate the insulation properties of down whereas if you soak a synthetic bag and wring it out then it's still about 50% of where it started. Comparing an 800g synthetic bag to a 400g down bag and thinking about the 400g weight difference is futile if there's even a slight chance you'll be damp.

It's a compromise though, I've got a 1500g down bag for winter as it's nice and warm and the equivalent synthetic bag would be massive, and I use it in spite of the faff trying to keep it dry. My summer bag is a (really cheap) 700g synthetic bag because I don't see the point in it being any smaller and appreciate quite how blase I can be about it. Spring/Autumn might be more nuanced. Long trip with potential drizzle, maybe syntheic? Fast and light one nighter in a bothy maybe down?

Where are you sleeping? Tents and bothies - down. The only times I have had a problem with a down bag getting wet and losing insulation was either sleeping out without a bivvy bag and it rained or when sleeping in a big orange poly bag.after I ran out of daylight (before LED torches and long battery life).

For UK use 3 season look for 300-400g down filling depending how cold or hot you sleep and the quality of the down. I have slept in a tent below freezing in a 200g fill bag but it was a good quality bag (PHD) and right on the limit. My 300g PHD bag is a genuine 3 season bag.

Slightly over budget but something like this. 820g for the regular length.

https://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/Camping/Sleeping-Bags/Mountain-Equipment-Helium-400

Saves you a Kg. Packs smaller, and probably warmer than what you have. If you are a bit warm you can undo the zip or slide the bag down on to your chest. Better to err slightly on the warm side than the cold. IMO.

Sorry, I’m a small 1 man tent

Like the sound of a hammock too (but never actually been in one)

Any recommendations for synthetic bags ?

If it's to use with the Galaxy,I think you should go for an ex-army grey coat an bivvy bag,maybe try some scratchy wool base layers.
😆

But it takes very little moisture to completely obliterate the insulation properties of downÅ

Actually not quite true. Sure, if you soak down by say, falling in a river, it'll become pretty much useless, but small amounts of water won't have a serious impact. You can also mitigate the impact of damp by getting something using hydrophobic - water repellent - down. Store it in a dry-bag and you should be fine. That said I'd rather use a synthetic bag on wet UK bivi, but in a tent down should be fine unless you do something idiotic or are very unlucky. It'll also last longer than synthetics and be significantly lighter for the same level of insulation.

Alpkit's down bags are pretty decent at the price. Less polished than the stuff from Rab or Mountain Equipment, but solid and effective. ME's Helium range bags are lovely, though a bit over your budget, really nicely designed. Ditto the Rab stuff. Sub-£300 you're getting high loft duck rather than goose down, but it works fine, is cheaper and no longer smells of duck in the way it used to in the past.

https://alpkit.com/products/pipedream-400

Wait for their next sale (it won't be long) and get this. In the sale or even at full price this is pretty much impossible to beat. Packs down tiny and will be good for most UK weather including winter bar the high mountains (Scotland) in winter. Weighs the same as the Decathlon bag linked above but is warmer. And its not Decathlon who are just a pimped up Mountain Warehouse who also peddle cheap crap that should be avoided at all costs.

I've had mine for a few years now and its brilliant. Plus if it needs repairs or warranty Alpkit will look after you. Biggest no brainer ever.

If you're in a tent there's no reason not to go for down. Synthetic will be heavier and bulkier, with a bit of common sense you won't get a down bag wet in a tent (get a basic bag cover like a terranova moonlight if condensation is a concern?). Should be able to get something in the 700-900g range that will do well. Alpkit Pipedream 200 or 400 would be hard to beat overall.

Get a liner. Helps keep the bag cleaner. I have a cheap poly cotton one for dirt bagging in the van and a silk one for touring / backpacking (not that I have managed much of that for a few years!).

^ good point. Decathlon silk liner is good vfm, have used one for years after grimy cycling legs meant the bag needed a wash after a fairly short trip.

+1 Alpkit Pipedream 200 for 2-season use - packs small and warm enough, for earlier in the year I ended up wearing all my spare clothes, so bought a RAB Neutrino 400 too.

If you're over 6', make sure you get a long/XL or at least check the length.

I've managed a few nights at below freezing in an Alpkit Pipedream 400, woke up this time last year on the Stiperstone covered in frost, was bastard cold but I didn't die.

Also managed many bivvys in Wales in the rain, bag has got a little damp once or twice, but was never a soggy mess.

Wash it? You get used to the smell of your bag, its kinda comforting 🙂

Earlier up the thread I said that sub-£300 you'd tend to get duck down. That's true for Rab and ME, I think - and there's nothing wrong with duck down, it's just easier to source because in really basic terms, there are more ducks out there than geese also it tends to max out around 750 fill power, I think. Goose down generally can go up to 1000k, rarely used except by the likes of PHD... Anyway, the Alpkit Pipedreams use goose down. Their cheaper, slightly heavier SkyeHigh bags are duck.

If you win the Lottery, have a look at the Rab Mythic Ultra 180 - weighs 400g and is good down to around freezing point. Costs a whopping £570 🙁

I have a decathlon down bag, packs up nice and small pretty warm seems well made. Cost about £100

Just looked at the PHD Minim 400 in the long and wide size. Closest equivalent to my Minim 300(only offered during sales)

£626!!

I'm sure I only paid about £300 in the sale a few years ago.

I’ve managed a few nights at below freezing in an Alpkit Pipedream 400, woke up this time last year on the Stiperstone covered in frost, was bastard cold but I didn’t die.

Also managed many bivvys in Wales in the rain, bag has got a little damp once or twice, but was never a soggy mess.

Wash it? You get used to the smell of your bag, its kinda comforting 🙂

When its colder I use my Pipedream with an Exped Downmat Lite which has down in it and its a game changer. I've slept comfortably in -6 with just base layers on. Thing is with sleeping bags and the temperature rating, it can vary massively from one person to the next. I sleep warm so generally find the temp ratings of sleeping bags to be accurate if not slightly under rated.

Small pack size was a must for me as its used also for bike packing as was the weight. At the time I looked at every reasonably priced sleeping bag out there and the Pipedream was everything I wanted/needed plus it was around £160 which nothing else could get close to (from trusted brands).

I'm sure some Decathlon stuff is great but I spent a fair few years trying to find bargains from companies like that (camping wise) and I just found myself buying twice all the time, as the cheaper alternatives either didn't last or were just crap.
Plus if you're relying on this equipment to keep you warm and comfortable its not an area to be penny pinching on or taking unnecessary risks. Buying from Decathlon for me, well its just not worth the risk. There's a reason their stuff is a lot cheaper and it ain't goodwill.

If you win the Lottery, have a look at the Rab Mythic Ultra 180 – weighs 400g and is good down to around freezing point. Costs a whopping £570

This is my dream sleeping bag!!!

Actually not quite true. Sure, if you soak down by say, falling in a river, it’ll become pretty much useless, but small amounts of water won’t have a serious impact. You can also mitigate the impact of damp by getting something using hydrophobic – water repellent – down. Store it in a dry-bag and you should be fine. That said I’d rather use a synthetic bag on wet UK bivi, but in a tent down should be fine unless you do something idiotic or are very unlucky. It’ll also last longer than synthetics and be significantly lighter for the same level of insulation.

At 6ft I've always ended up with cold feet in a down bag as at some point in the night I'll kick the wall of the tent and soak the footbox with condensation. So I tend to do the opposite and go with bivi + down and tent + synthetic.

I’m sure some Decathlon stuff is great but I spent a fair few years trying to find bargains from companies like that (camping wise) and I just found myself buying twice all the time, as the cheaper alternatives either didn’t last or were just crap.
Plus if you’re relying on this equipment to keep you warm and comfortable its not an area to be penny pinching on or taking unnecessary risks. Buying from Decathlon for me, well its just not worth the risk

So you have no experience of Decathlon but no the kit is rubbish...you should try some they make excellent stuff and great cycling kit too.

What he said. They might not be the best for really high end kit ie super warm but light sleeping bags but all of the stuff I've bought from them over the years has been good quality and value. I couldn't say the same about Alpkit, I've had more failures than success from them. Although to be fair the sleeping bags I got from them have been excellent, they're a lot more expensive now though.

At 6ft I’ve always ended up with cold feet in a down bag as at some point in the night I’ll kick the wall of the tent and soak the footbox with condensation. So I tend to do the opposite and go with bivi + down and tent + synthetic.

At 6'4" I have the same issue, so in winter I carry a bivvy bag and put my sleeping bag inside that. It also adds a degree or two of warmth, and serves as both a shelter if I can't a footprint big enough for the tent and an emergency shelter if things go really tits up

Re Decathlon I find their stuff really varied- their down jackets are excellent as are their gloves, base layers and mid layers, and I took a look at their down sleeping bags in store and thought they looked really well made and suited to their intended use, but I have also bought stuff in the past that has left me a bit underwhelmed- especially some of their car camping gear.

I was looking at rab and mountain equipment 400bags

But I didn’t realise the alpkit stuff is goose not duck. So might try this

400 or 600 realistically it will be spring summer autumn. Mainly uk.

Like the idea of a liner.

Cheers for all the info

I've used Vango Cobra Down bags for bikepacking....been brilliant and at a great price. Similar to alpkit pricing, but alpkit were out of stock at the time.

I have 2 Cobra 400 (1 for my g/f) and 1 Cobra 200...the 400 is mega-warm; I needed a lighter fill for summer and autumn.

Great thread.
I've been going through this exact same debate in my head and with a mate for the last month. The synthetic big bag is just waaaay to big for some planned bike camping (I think da kidz call it bike packing. But it was defo camping on the bike when I 1st did it 30 years ago in the Black Mountains and Brecons. )

Anyway I have concluded to get a RAB Neutrino, either the 400 or 500.
Shopping around seems to come up wirh a tad over £300. Certainly not cheap. But I've decided that (a) I'll support made (not just badged up) in Derbyshire over made in Wuhan. And the adage of 'buy once, cry once'. A good one will see me out.

Buying from Decathlon for me, well its just not worth the risk. There’s a reason their stuff is a lot cheaper and it ain’t goodwill.

The reason is volume. They're massive and have buying power no other outdoor company can match. My experience of their kit has been excellent - it's so good for the money that I worry they make it hard for other brands or retailers to compete (perhaps impossible, at some levels). I have kit from them that matches the higher-end outdoor brands for function at 1/4 the price. Detail is sometimes a bit lower but overall it's far better than I expected. From what I know of them from some work cross-over they have excellent product management and development teams, they aren't just reselling China catalogue kit. Whether you want to buy from such huge companies is another matter.

(I think da kidz call it bike packing. But it was defo camping on the bike when I 1st did it 30 years ago in the Black Mountains and Brecons. )

There were books written about 'bikepacking' 40 years ago : )

Shopping around seems to come up wirh a tad over £300. Certainly not cheap. But I’ve decided that (a) I’ll support made (not just badged up) in Derbyshire over made in Wuhan.

I'm pretty sure the actually shell of the bag is made overseas, but the down is added in Alfreton. If you want a high-end down bag that's completely made in the UK, PH Designs - originally started by Peter Hutchinson, who was the original man at Mountain Equipment and died a few years back - still manufacture in an old Victorian mill in Stalybridge. Their stuff isn't cheap, but they absolutely know what they're doing, specialise in down clothing and sleeping bags and are one of the few brands out there using 1000 fill power down, which is amazing stuff, but also very expensive, scarce and subject to variations in availability, a bit like truffles or good wine.

This why...

They also do occasional sales and have annual Summer Lightning thing where they use their spare manufacturing capacity to produce special editions at reduced prices, so worth keep an eye on their site / signing up for their mailing list if you're interested. The other brand I've used which does ridiculously good down stuff is Western Mountaineering from the US. Really good kit using 900+ fill power down.

I think I’m going to go with the pipe dream 400. Goose down.

£220. Is this the best I can get for this money before I commit

So you have no experience of Decathlon but no the kit is rubbish…you should try some they make excellent stuff and great cycling kit too.

I did say i'm sure some of their stuff is great, you must of missed that part.

In fact I have one of their down jackets which was about £50 and its done me ok. Its not great but its cheap and does the job, i purely use it for camping. The feather leakage is more than you'd want but it was £50. If it was a sleeping bag leaking that amount of down though...

I just don't trust sell it all sort of shops like Decathlon where the prices seem too good to be true. In most cases that's because the prices are to good to be true.

I think I’m going to go with the pipe dream 400. Goose down.

£220. Is this the best I can get for this money before I commit

Yeah that's what I found, you just can't get an equivalent for that money. Not a trusted one anyway.

If you can wait before you buy a sale in Alpkit is never far away. But even at full price its a steal. You get a big cotton storage bag with it too.

Anyway I have concluded to get a RAB Neutrino, either the 400 or 500.
Shopping around seems to come up wirh a tad over £300. Certainly not cheap. But I’ve decided that (a) I’ll support made (not just badged up) in Derbyshire over made in Wuhan. And the adage of ‘buy once, cry once’. A good one will see me out.

Rab Nutrino 400 - Weight: 775g - Temp Rating -7 Pack size 35 X 23CM price £340

Alpkit Pipedream 400 - Weight: 865g - Temp Rating -6 Pack size 18 x 25cm price £220

Small weight penalty that you won't notice other than that I don't see why you'd buy the RAB.

I do like Rab stuff mind, its excellent. I have a down jacket and its so warm I can barely wear it in this country.

I think I’m going to go with the pipe dream 400. Goose down.

£220. Is this the best I can get for this money before I commit

You'll struggle to get better.
I got a pair of them for the ex and i many years ago. With a liner and some fleecy socks i've used it down to about -8 in a tent (i sleep hot though).
With a bivvy bag and a tarp i've slept outside (not quite wild camping) down to about -3 in perfect comfort.

Another vote for ME Helium bags, and if you can find any then the mountain hardwear hyperlamina spark is a very good lightweight synthetic bag. I also have a Marmot Atom down bag and it’s superb. A friend swears by his Marmot Hydrogen. Both a little over your budget though.

I think I’m going to go with the pipe dream 400. Goose down.

£220. Is this the best I can get for this money before I commit

I'd maybe have a look at the Mountain Equipment Helium 400 as well. It's £50 more, but ME's done a really good job on its sleeping bags - they redesigned the whole range back in 2017 and everything about them is spot on. Some really neat features like a magnetic catch on the shoulder baffle, very well shaped and well-filled hood, great-feeling fabrics etc. I'd say it's more polished than the Alpkit bags if that makes sense.

What's the lowest temperature you're likely to sleep at? Outside winter, the Helium 250 is only 660g and good for me at least, down to around freezing.

But yes, the Pipedream is a really good price for a decent bag.

I use a ME Helium bag nearly all year round in the UK, they’re excellent bags.

2 Alpkit Pipedream 400s and 2 Cumulus Panyam 450s in this household, work all year around with base layers to just below zero. Light and compact enough to cart around in the summer without wishing for something will a lower fill. We just use them like a quilt when it is warm.

The Panyams are a bit more refined in quality and have better down, but have differential fill, which can be a pain as I'm a restless side sleeper. They were bought pre Brexit and the weak £ for an excellent price compared to now... The Pipedreams have hydrophobic treatment to the down, which we've never tested.

I don't get on with liners and always sleep in base layers outside of UK summer.

I'd avoid anything with stitched through "baffles".

Decathlon make some great kit, especially for kids.

Someone up there mentioned a down filled mat and I think he's the only one.

The down in you bag underneath you compresses under your weight and does virtually nothing to keep your heat disappearing into the ground

No point in having a fancy, super warm bag if you're sleeping on an uninsulated mat. You need to balance the two, and maybe spend some of that weight saving on a decent, warm mat.

Someone up there mentioned a down filled mat and I think he’s the only one.

Tbf, you don't need a down-filled mat for it to be insulated. Self-inflating mats like the classic Therm-a-Rest models use foam to stop air movement within the mat, Exped use synthetic fill in some of their inflatables, the Therm-a-Rest NeoAir stuff uses fibres and a reflective membrane etc. Even simple closed-cell foram Karrimats are insulated. The only mats that aren't are basically mini air-beds, with or without complicated air-cell construction. But yes, definitely worth spending on a decent mat for cold conditions. What you're basically doing is preventing air currents inside the mattress leaking your body heat to the cold ground. It's why air beds feel cold in non-summer conditions.

Tbf, you don’t need a down-filled mat for it to be insulated.

True, I just meant it was the only time mats had been mentioned at all on the first page. Worth a bit more discussion in a thread about warmth/weight/spend.

R values for mats are easy to compare, so you know what you're getting.

And, as above, that's all you're getting to keep your heat from the ground if you're in a down bag (which you've bought because it's super-compressible).

https://alpkit.com/blogs/develop/what-are-sleeping-mat-r-values

@ Badlywireddog, thanks for that info.
I'd not realised they were going (I recall when ME really was ME and they were always the gold standard for this sort of kit, back when I was a yoof and absolutely couldn't afford their stuff !

No worries. My local outdoor company over in East Manchester. Good people 🙂

Alpkit sale on sleeping bags is now on.

As predicted: https://alpkit.com/products/pipedream-400