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I am trying to sort out my sleeping problem and I have been following CBT-i and one of the techniques is something called sleep restriction or a sleep window.
Just wondering if anybody else is doing something similar or having issues with sleep. I am really struggling, my GP is a waste of time.
I don't know what the CBT -i involves. I have had some problems with sleeping. Mainly involved trips to the toilet I'm in my 60s, also I work random shifts. I cut down the amount of fluids I was drinking late at night and also changed to decaff after 8pm. I was having some trouble getting back to sleep. Ialso try to have a more regular bedtime which has been a bit more difficult as it takes an hour or two to unwind after a back shift. I should also get up at the same time irrespective of my shifts each day. The lack of routine didn't bother me when I was young but it's been a problem over the last ten years..
yes, i just did the cbti course.Any aspect you are particu;arly struggling with?
I know just how hard it can be
Suffered from lifelong bouts of insomnia and irregular sleep patterns, sometimes 2-3 days with no sleep. Small daily dose of melatonin fixed it for me. You may be able to get your GP to prescribe, or buy from the net.
I guess I am reaching out as I am really struggling with the lack of sleep, its really starting to affect me in so many ways. I went to see my GP and I ended up just walking out, no help at all.
I think its sleep anxiety as I have no problem falling asleep at 10pm, but I wake up between 2 and 3am and find it impossible to get back to sleep, sometimes its even less sleep.
I am thinking of trying the sleep window technique, going to bed at 12.30am and waking at 6am with the intention of building up sleep drive/pressure.
I think its sleep anxiety as I have no problem falling asleep at 10pm,
I find if I go to bed at 10 then that's a bit too early and I'll wake up at 3 or 4. If I can hold off until 11 or 11:30 I'm more likely to sleep through. I don't have a problem getting back to sleep but it will then just be on/off until I finally get up.
Do the sleep window thing. Its often nigh on impossible to stay awake to 12,but do it. You will really struggle with it, but it is for the tomorrow you, or next month you, not for you today
And dont stay in bed after 20mins, get up until youre too tired to stay up.
there are various cbti techniques to help with the sleep anxiety
Its really hard, i have all kinds of excuses not to do it, but i did the 5 week course again, and still doing it on my own. Dont expect it to work in just a few weeks.
You will have to change your life around it, like driving, being too tired to ride some days, etc
Historically there have been times when it wasnt uncommon for people to be awake for a while in the middle of the night, and that knowledge helped me be more relaxed about waking up in the small hours and accepting that I'd had my "first sleep" and my "second sleep" would be along later.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/future/article/20220107-the-lost-medieval-habit-of-biphasic-sleep
Have you tried sleeping naked? I was skeptical, but after I tried it, my life was never the same again.
@Mounty_73 I get bouts of insomnia during periods of stress (almost always work stress). I experience these very similarly to you, i.e. little difficulty falling asleep, but instant sleep anxiety on waking in the early hours of the morning. At it's worst, it just turns into that familiar death spiral of "I can't afford another day of being knackered and unproductive at work/too tired to ride or train/etc.." - just the thing to lull you back to sleep!
When it happens, I've found that the following can help (although it sounds like you're already pretty well informed):
- Consistently doing some mindfulness exercises at some point earlier in the day.
- Don't eat too late
- Don't exercise too late
- Give yourself some wind down time before bed, sitting down and not moving much.
- Avoid bright lights and screens in the hours before bed.
- Consistent bedtime.
- Careful of the caffeine feedback loop - limit your intake, even if you're knackered during the day.
- No booze.
- Sleeping temperature - cooler the better, but make sure your feet aren't cold. Leave a window open before you go to bed. Have a hot shower - your body will shed a load of heat via your skin when you get out, bringing your core temperature down.
- When I wake in the night, I find that I have to practice a lack of attachment to the necessity of getting back to sleep. Being over-invested just makes it worse. Hands off the wheel. Not easy, I know.
- Definitely subscribe to the idea that you should get up if you can't get back over after 20 minutes or so. Go somewhere else and do something you find relaxing, then try again in a bit (again, if you can cool your body down a bit in these intervals, so much the better).
- If you're sleeping beside someone else, you might find it easier sleeping separately, e.g. if they snore, or you're worried about disturbing them in the night.
- Do whatever you can to alleviate anything that's causing you stress. Luckily for me I have a good boss, who was very supportive and accommodating, e.g. letting me vary my working hours where necessary if I'd had a shit sleep.
The CBT approach sounds positive. As for your GP, it's probably just not something they've had a lot of training on, unfortunately. However, remember that you can always ask to speak to a different GP (or switch your practice if they're all shite). Obviously depends what provision's like in your area.
Hope it improves soon.
I find the nights I read in bed for 30 minutes plus I am far more likely to sleep through the night.
Not what you asked but I thought I would chip in with that
I would just like to make an important point. The secret to a healthy sleep cycle is NOT a consistent bedtime, in fact this can make things worse.
The secret is a consistent getting up time, and then not going to bed until after your bedtime when you feel tired.
Mertazapine might help.
Got me super groggy and ready to sleep within 45mins, slept through when before I was up numerous times for hours.
Unfortunately, I was often drowsy until mid afternoon.
Less of an issue now that the darker nights are back, but blackout blinds are your friend and a comfortable, effective sleep mask is your best friend. Worthwhile spending a little on the latter.
I'm pretty good at sleeping but...
that familiar death spiral of "I can't afford another day of being knackered and unproductive at work/too tired to ride or train/etc.." - just the thing to lull you back to sleep!
...sleep anxiety thing many will recognise. Counteract this by having a couple of techniques - Google "cognitive shuffle" - if you can generate random thoughts, images, scenarios flitting randomly about then you brain thinks you're not focusing on anything important and it's safe to sleep. One technique is just think of and picture as many things randomly beginning with "S", then "L" etc. And you're away... You do need to actually apply this and it takes a bit of effort, but if you have a technique that works it takes away any worry.
Just to say, I sleep very well but after lurking on your sleep thread ( https://singletrackmag.com/forum/off-topic/sleep-ama/ ) ,I passed on a lot of very useful info to my partner.
It was very helpful ,so thanks for that.
You’re welcome, glad it helped somebody.
Lots of great advice. I’ve found mindfulness practice very helpful.
Here are a few things i started doing when lack of sleep was an issue. I continue to do them now. In general i get enough sleep. It’s very much personal advice, not established best practice
I expect to wake up in the middle of the night. Often it’s a little anxiety kick in my sleep. But with an enlarged prostate at some point I’m getting up for a wee however relaxed i am about life.
After I’ve had a wee and a drink of water I’ll read my kindle paper white for a bit. This happens every night and i look forward to it. Eventually I’ll feel sleepy and my kindle down and fall asleep. Nb the kindle back light is on 3. It’s really dim
I absolutely refuse to have any knowledge of time at night. The alarm clock is turned to the wall. I don’t know when i wake up. I have no idea how long i read for. If I’m slow to nod off after reading i have no idea how slow
The more you focus on an issue the more it becomes an issue. Wilful tolerance helps me loads.
Realising that it happens and trying to do what I want rather than to resist the issue
This explains it well
https://open.spotify.com/episode/0ZXr9nQITqsocoBVOMtima?si=imPhXX1xSLeVE1jE3yQ0Cg