Slate roof repair, 1910s house: advice needed

Second opinion from a builder not connected to your agents.  Clearly work needs to be done but pulling ceilings down and complete reroof?  I doubt it very much.

Friend had the slate roof of their late 1800s house completely redone in the late 90s.

Whereabouts in Wales? Reason for asking is that one of my oldest friends is a roofer based in the Aberdyfi area. I can ask him on your behalf if I can get a bit more info.

Lots of considerations to be taken into account eg. area of roof, material (there are loads of different types of 'slate' some of which are not necessarily slate at all). Also consider planning permission.

FWIW We had our roof replaced five years ago. High grade natural slate in excess of British Standard. New battens and felt. Four leaded valleys, one chimney to be worked around. Detached house, 120 square metre footprint. Used a local guy from Swansea. Cost us £5500 but this was as I say, a while ago.

And, as above, get a second opinion from someone who you feel that you can trust.

What TJ said.

Had an 1860's house with a slate roof some years ago.

Advice from several proper old school roofers was to leave the tiles alone and minimise interference with the roof itself.

@Ambrose cheers buddy. The house is in Aberystwyth, so not a milion miles away (as the crow flies!) from Aberdyfi. Would appreciate some advice from your friend. Probs best to DM me on here, I guess.

Sounds, anyway, like I should get a second opinion.

Cheers all..

As above, get some independant advice first.

Cost wise, I am regularly hearing of people paying up to £15,000 these days for re-roofs. And I also know of two people who have paid that twice due to choosing the wrong person the first time.

We paid £3,200 for slate about 10 years ago. And £5,000 for a stone one around the same time. Since then costs have gone mad.

Cost wise, I am regularly hearing of people paying up to £15,000 these days for re-roofs

indeed. Plus scaffolding.

"cold bridging or wool on the vaulted part of the ceiling which is pulling moisture through and causing the black spots/ mould” sounds to me like someone with little relevant technical knowledge. They also seem to be indicating that the problem should be addressed by removing the ceiling (not the roof covering). The comment about the roof covering being "not good" looks like an afterthought. I'd definitely go for a second, independent opinion.

The roof repairs ( not full re roof) on my building cost almost a million.  Done by the council supposedly under statutory notice ( actually they are so incompetent that the notice did not apply to the roof just the stonework on the facade.)  1/4 million pounds worth of leadwork

My share was ( originally before I set about them)  £150 000 yes that is not a typo!  Thats for the stonework and the roof repairs

However they ( like some of you on here?  🙂 ) got fed up of arguing with me and also due to their incompetence its unlikely I will pay anything apart from having to repair the interior damage

I wouldn't be surprised if a 1910 slate roof was "not good". That doesn't mean it needs replacing. Ours is 1860, and not far from Aberystwyth. It was very "not good" when we got it and leaking badly but it's now had a few new slates fitted where old ones had slipped and seems to be leak free. The green growth in the ceiling has completely gone. It'll need replacing at some point but not yet. I think I'd want to find out what the actual problem is rather than a blanket plan to rip everything out and replace.

13k sounds reasonable to be honest. I was quoted that sort of figure before Covid - I moved house instead! 🙂

Our 1912 house with Rosemary tiles has a problem round the now disused chimney. Been thinking about a reroof for a while after patching up in the past redoing the lead flashing etc. there’s gas fires in that we haven’t turned on for years and probably should be condemned anyway. Probably all sorts of debris holding water in the chimney. Damp patch on the bedroom ceiling etc.

I got some quotes for slate after admiring next doors that they had done a few years back. Cheapest was 10.5k most expensive £20k plus vat. This was the company next door used. Interestingly though the guy that came from that firm to look at it said a new roof wasn’t guaranteed to fix the problem and if we weren’t using the chimney ever again we could drop the stack and fix the roof over it for just £3k.
As I’m thinking we may move in 5 years or so once kids finally left home I’m more inclined to leave the roof alone as much as possible. If I was looking at 20 more years in the house a full reroof and up to scratch insulation etc would seem like a better idea.

Just be sure to stick to slates.
So many period houses have been re-roofed with tiles (cost saving?) which in practice are far heavier leading to all sorts of internal bracing bodges. My own house suffered this so I’m stuck with the bloody tiles and an uneven roof. .

Price seems reasonable the question is if it is needed.

It sounds like the roof has been insulated with no air gap, so the insulation is bridging from the back of the tiles/felt to the ceiling.

So what might be needed is the ceiling pulled down and insulation taken out and reinstalled with a air gap.

You might be able to spread the cost. e.g. Roof repairs this year, ceiling next year. But end of the day its an old house which needs maintenance.

If it’s ceiling mould there’s a good chance the issue is ventilation or lack of it.

The tenants may be reducing their use or central heating (understandable) or failing to open the windows enough to get moisture levels down e.g. after cooking or showers etc.

As a first step, clean / kill the mould with white vinegar or similar and then ensure the room is aired regularly.

Price seems reasonable the question is if it is needed.

It sounds like the roof has been insulated with no air gap, so the insulation is bridging from the back of the tiles/felt to the ceiling.

Pretty much what I was going to write. A re-roof may well be the best course of action for the roof it's self impossible to say without looking.

The ceiling sounds like it probably it a sloping ceiling?

Also Aberystwyth area based with a 1868 roof, give me shout and i'll get together the list of roofers/builders we are aware of in the area if that helps.

I've done tile repairs and minor work myself to remediate damp spots but have had chimney rebuilds done in the last 2 year.

Aber ride meet up?

Do you have pictures of the levels of mould?

i.e. is it significant, or just a bit?
After the child death related to significant damp/mould issues, lots of agents are becoming very risk adverse, to these things.

The mould issue is all the more pressing now the Welsh Government have put through healthy homes legislation for Wales landlords. I suspect what has been done by the letting agent's builder is only a temporary fix for this.

I wish I had some clue as to what 'insulation is bridging from the back of the tiles/felt to the ceiling" actually ment though. I thought bridges were only something you ever drove cars over 😂

Isn't my roof likely to have plenty of air gaps? Couldn't more of these be simply added with an electric drill if necessry? 😂

(I'm guessing not!)

@davespike1981 an Aber ride meet up would have been possible 10 years ago. I live in NZ now, close to some pretty amazing trails though. I'll DM you for a list of builders in the area (I haven't the foggiest - from this side of the world - who is recommended in Aber).

Cheers all..!

I always chuckle when a roofer says a slate roof needs replacing. Why?

Slate doesn't go off, it'll be slatey until the end of time.

My first house was a victorian terrace and had a similar diagnosis after some leaks. It wasn't even made with felt it just had slates.

The roofer and I agreed on battens, felt and nails and replace any broken slates with reclaimed that matched the look. I had to pay for 9 (at £2 each!) instead of a roof full.

Get a plumber to do the leadwork, too

cheddarchallenged
If it’s ceiling mould there’s a good chance the issue is ventilation or lack of it.

The tenants may be reducing their use or central heating (understandable) or failing to open the windows enough to get moisture levels down e.g. after cooking or showers etc.

As a first step, clean / kill the mould with white vinegar or similar and then ensure the room is aired regularly.

Assuming you do not have leaking roof or gutters then this above is a good first move. I am involved with the management of several residential let properties of varying ages from 1870 to 1990's, we have had mould issues this winter like never before. I think these may be some of the reasons why it is worsening:
1) Novemember was wet and warm, January is going the same way. So high humidty, and bloody hard to dry clothes.
2) Tenants want to reduce bills due to the energy crisis so, reducing heating use, not opening windows, keeping trickle vents closed, actively disabling our installed ventilation, in one case a PIV and in another a heat recovery fan, and often not using extractor fans, in a bid to reduce their bills.
3) Drying clothes indoors, without using ventilation.

I'm not an expert by any means but I've been doing this for 20 or so years and have learned a few things..

Firstly you can't blame tenants for wanting to save money, however there is a bit of give and take. We take our advice from local environmental health and they will inspect and liase with tenants to give good advice to all, do as they say and you will be golden.

Humans produce humidity at an astounding rate, breathing in and out, washing, cooking, drying clothes, all chuck litres of water into the air.
This makes warm humid air which meets cooler surfaces and condenses on that surface making it wet. It can take a long time to dry and this creates perfect conditions for mould to grow.

So around your house there may well be cold spots due to bridging. IE this means that any airgap or insulation has been breached, and the cold outside is connected to the warm inside.  You can buy a dirt cheap IR thermal gun from aldi for 19.99 and find these spots easily.

It sounds like your ceiling issue may well be a thermal bridge.

However, you can get around the issue by sorting out your ventilation.

a) Do the kitchen and bathroom extractors work, and do they vent to outside?
b) Trickle vents on DG windows? If not install them. £5 each and 20 mins with a drill.
c) You may benefit from a PIV fan, this is a big slow fan in the attic that pushes air into your house which helps it get pushed out of all the gaps and vents. Make sure the attic is vented though, otherwise you'll be contributing to the humidty.. (£600 fitted)
d) Consider single room heat recovery systems, fans, like an extractor fan but also removes some heat from the exiting air and blows it back into the house. (£600 fitted)
e) We provide squeegees to clear windows in the mornings, showers after use etc, makes a huge difference.
f) We also provide condensing or externally vented tumble dryers, to all our properties.And a decent washing line of course.
g) Clean mould areas and repaint with mould resistant paint.
h) If you can, sort out any cold bridges, and increase insulation. But most of the above are quick and cheaper..
i) Make sure tenants know that they should use the fans, leave the trickle vents open, use the squeegees, and at least try and open their windows for 5 mins a day, no drying clothes indoors, use the dryer. However be reasonable, we have 1st and 2nd floor flats with no access to external washing lines. We installed humidity controlled heat recovery fans in the lounge areas where they use drying racks - this is a reasonable compromise and I've asked them to only dry near the fan, works well.
j) Most standard ASTs include this clause :

1.21 Take all reasonable precautions to prevent condensation and or mould growth by keeping the Property adequately ventilated and heated.

I am not sure how enforcable it is, but I use it to remind tenants that if they insist on closing all the vents, not using the fans or heating and drying clothes indoors, then at some point they will be liable for repainting.