[Closed] Skim links on the forum

It's mentioned in the freeloading thread, think it probably needs some explanation. Same as you I'm not a fan, does it appear to the 'p' members too?

Yes, just clicked one thinking it was a link by the op, and I've got a 'p'. Don't like them, didn't know such a thing existed til now.

It's all over most of the forum/user community sites

I thought they were generally a different colour or double underlined. Not being obvious whether it's a "proper" link from the poster or a random made-up link is rather annoying.

They went live yesterday. This thread might be handy for feedback.

What are they?

I don't remember seeing one, therefore would like to know what to watch out for, ta.

[url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skimlinks ]Skimlinks[/url]

And they are appearing on the site exactly the same as the manually created URL I just posted there.

I've just come a cropper with them thinking they are a genuine posted link (ironically on the other thread about what needs doing to the site to improve it). I have a P and everything. Not cool. Currently on mobile so no way of checking the link destination before clicking and no way of visually distinguishing them from real links.

Feedback:

I thought having a "P" meant no adverts. Having these advertising links visible to "P" members removes that benefit. That feels wrong.

For non-P people, make sure they look different to links added by the poster - a different colour or extra underlining. And yes, I know I can hover to see it's been added by Skimlinks but not quite so easy on a touchscreen device.

The macbook ssd thread is full of them! They caught me out...

Edit: Heh... there's one right there now, I didn't do that...

Feedback .

Part of the reason I have subscription is to have an advert free forum .

Disable this function or face a lost subscription .

Agree with Pete above its rubbish

Yeah, but maybe without the limp flounce threats? 🙂

It's a trial anyhow, so no need jugs jugs big jugs pie cake Kelly brook.

Edit: It really is rubbish.

The macbook ssd thread is full of them! They caught me out..

Ah that explains why my post about pedals created a link to hargroves cycles. It's really misleading as it looks like I linked to them, but I didn't.

Hmm, don't see any of them so far. Is my "P" better than your "P" or are they not activated in mobile Chrome?

What the hell?

Sorry STW, I agree with most of what you do, but this is stupidity.

If they stay I'll be another one cancelling my renewal.

FFS that's basically forging posts to pretend that genuine posters put the links in. In what way is this better than real spammers, other than STW getting a cut from them?

they not activated in mobile Chrome?

No they are everywhere, they look just like normal links. Most sites make them a different colour or something, these are effectively blending in with most users legit links.

TBH I'd still be anti even if they were green-dotted underlined, as is more usual. Please don't even think about making them auto-pop-up.

If they are regarded as an economic necessity then I'd agree they should not appear to Premier customers.

Edit: Heh... there's one right there now, I didn't do that..

Ah that explains why my post about pedals created a link to hargroves cycles. It's really misleading as it looks like I linked to them, but I didn't.

I don't have a problem with having advertising delivered to me, so long as it doesn't obscure content, but I think quite rightly that people will have a very legitimate issue with appearing to endorse products or sellers. It turns us into shills

It all sits pretty awkwardly against policies the site has for posting links for Sports Pursuit - even linking to Daily Maul articles. I think it also leaves you open to spam accounts being used to astroturfed - create posts that they know will automatically create links.

What is wrong with sport pursuit linking?

Morning.
Yes it's a trial. I activated them yesterday.
I need to judge your reaction, which is happening obviously. But I also need to judge revenues.
There are controls and various settings I have at my disposal and I'll be pushing a few buttons over the next few hours.

Cheers
Mark

So, can I clarify (because I haven't seen any yet)

If I post a thread about say, hmmmm a pair of Thompson CX bars I've just bought, and say I gave a little "review" Y'know.. Yup they're Ace kinda thing..

That because I mentioned a Brand and the word Bar, that a link would appear in my thread created by some advertising spambot ?

If thats the case, I don't want that option and I don't like it at all.

I'd like STW to comment on this please, ta.

Well Marks offered up his opinion, thanks.

So its a conscious decision then Mark?

You are putting them in place?

Not for me that Mark.

I'm out.

I'll be pushing a few buttons over the next few hours.

I think you already have 😀

Make them a different colour and I'd have no problem with them - otherwise they're a bit spammy.

I don't like it. It makes it look like I've put a broken link to a shop I don't use.

I wouldn't be happy with that either. -1!

Do not like. 🙁

Making them look identical to a link posted by the OP feels almost fraudulent.

Making them a completely different style avoids that, but breaks up the flow of text and makes it annoying to read.

I haven't seen any on this site yet but they are something I despise. It's not just the fact that they might appear to trick you into thinking a link is genuine, it's that they make the whole site just look like one giant advert. It's clear there is advertising but normally the ads and content are separated so that's easy to deal with. With SkimLinks it's right in your face and makes you think you are permanently just reading adverts 🙁

So its a conscious decision then Mark?

You are putting them in place?

It's a trial. It's about income and how browsers and mobile operators is having an effect on ad income, Mark can give more info on that. He did yesterday on another thread.

Don't like at all.

Since "P" doesnt work you'll have to rely upon other methods to overcome them.

I'm seeing skimlinks in Edge but not in Firefox. Think I'll stick with Firefox.

If you're going to do this then you really need to distinguish between the skimlinks and user generated links. I'll be reluctant to post anything otherwise (some may say this is a good thing) as I really don't want content I've generated linking to things that I may not approve of.

If the premier subscription isn't enough to fund the running of the site, put the price up...
But kindly **** right off renaging on the deal to remove advertisements if I pay.

As previously mentioned by others, especially given the appearance of the links being identical - the implication that I might endorse these links without any knowledge of their existence worries me greatly...

I too will likely cancel my P if this is not resolved.

I don't see them.

Do not like.

Making them look identical to a link posted by the OP feels almost fraudulent.

Making them a completely different style avoids that, but breaks up the flow of text and makes it annoying to read.

Agreed. Also, as Bikebuoy mentions above, it looks like it's some sort of endorsement from the poster. Which it shouldn't be.

Not keen. At all.

Make them a different colour and I'd have no problem with them

+1 for me. If it's obvious what they are then they're easy to just ignore, for me anyway.

people will have a very legitimate issue with appearing to endorse products or sellers.

I first noticed this when I made a mildly disparaging reference in the CTC thread to a large internet retailer named after a South American river.

There's a touch of irony in that then being turned into a link to said retailer.

If I had paid for a P, I'd be somewhat pissed off right about now.

As a non-P, it's hilarious.

Mark. Maybe you should have at the very least put a sticky informing the forum of your plans? Just a few lines to say you were testing and it'd be for a few days etc.

.....or maybe have a pop under saying as much? 😛

The reason I didn't is because I wanted genuine reactions from users discovering them. I wanted to gauge just how intrusive/noticeable they really are.

I'll be leaving the Skimwords feature on for another couple of hours so I'll have a good chunk of revenue data by tomorrow so I can properly and objectively assess the whole package.

Sorry if they are annoying but it's all part of an important investigation into new revenue streams as an alternative to the traditional display ad system.

Why would you need P users reactions? Assume they would never need to see them?

TBH, as long as they are a different colour from user-inserted links I don't have a major problem. I can forsee a whole load of weird spelling coming in though, $pecialized, Planit X etc as folk try not to have their posts monetized

FWIW I've not seen them yet on mobile (WP8) but I've not checked on a proper browser yet.

I understand that advertising is a necessary evil but skimlinks are probably the least obtrusive way of doing it.

That said, they're still gash and I dislike them intensely (especially when there's no differentiation between normal links)

I'm offering up an option.

A poll.

Allow us to vote on whether they should be allowed or not. And if allowed, make them only available on the non P profile and in a different colour as mentioned.

I'd like to see the results. I think you would too.

I've read the other thread, this threads been called out specifically for conversations around this topic, so makes the other thread redundant. All comments, on this topic should be in here.

I'm sooooo not bothered about the industry of Adv revenue, not bothered at all. You can offer up all you like bout "it's what the industry is offering in the face of decreasing advertising" or some other targeting marketing bollocks.

Protecting what you have here I agree with, but it's clear we all hate advertising and the proliferation of it on websites we visit all over the internet.

What exactly are you chasing? Are you trying to keep up with trends? or are you interested in keeping members? or are you "loosing out" on lost revenue that you think will flow in if we accidentally click on them?

I'm going to offer up you close down Grit.CX as thats all but dead, that'll save a whole load of wasted cash on someones idea of it being the next big thing and squeezed a business case around "we'll get 1bn hits a week, and sell the Adv space to Tudor Watches or Bra/underwear chains" which seems to be your advertisers of choice these days.

Well done for chasing your tails, trying new trends based around accidental User clicks in threads that make the User think the poster has added a link to a product they're commenting on. Nice. Nice blokes you seem to be, clearly we're just a paying commodity who support your forum and mag.

It's pretty much fraudulent, enticing unsuspecting Users and visitors who use the site into thinking Posters are recommending Brands when clearly we're Not.

Ever thought of selling PPi in here too?

As is, I'm really quite annoyed by this shift in Your attitudes to us. You are treating us as recommenders of products we don't have control over and trying to put the onus on Us as though We are doing Your advertising for You.

Nope, sorry folks but thats just not on.

I'm changing my "auto subscription" off.

[img] [/img]
^ my opinion on the links not what BB said (which I tend to agree with).

They're getting right on my [url= https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=blue+tits&safe=off&biw=1366&bih=643&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjym9S5iYbLAhXGuRQKHZ6kBqAQ_AUIBigB#imgrc=SeJzkXl89Om25M%3A ]tits[/url], plus it's further developing my suspicious chip.

Why would you need P users reactions? Assume they would never need to see them

To see their views on them too. Everyone has a right to have an opinion.

To see their views on them too. Everyone has a right to have an opinion.

They also had the right to be informed that a service they are paying for will temporarily be suspended to a degree.

I'm going to offer up you close down Grit.CX as thats all but dead, that'll save a whole load of wasted cash on someones idea of it being the next big thing and squeezed a business case around "we'll get 1bn hits a week, and sell the Adv space to Tudor Watches or Bra/underwear chains" which seems to be your advertisers of choice these days.

[img] [/img]

Not seen any. Yet. Can't say I agree with them, but if they are needed to keep the forum going then I guess they will have to stay.

How do you generate revenue, from clicks on the Skimlinks presumably? Correct me if I'm wrong Mark, but you're not getting objective feedback from revenue because people are clicking on them unknowingly as the forum is now full of genuine links along with these [s]spam[/s] embedded links. If you want objective feedback you need to make them more obvious. As is people are all being tricked into clicking them.

It's a massive no from me. I actively avoid clicking them on other sites, to not be able to do so here is stupid.

To the people not seeing them, there's one in this thread! The MacBook SSD reference above, i presumed it'd be a link to the thread, it's not, it's a (broken) John Lewis link.

Edit: there you go, there it is again.

Seems like you forum customers are pretty low on the list,just under MONEY MONEY MONEY 🙂

It's a difficult job in what is a crowded market where everyone is fighting for a slice of the cake. Whoever find a reasonable solution is going to be a very rich person. On a personal level i feel that any site that feels it has to force revenue streams onto users/customers hasn't thought too hard about the problem.
As a case study I think the Bond movies is a good marker. There was a huge furore recently about product placement, but it has been going on for years, just look at a few Roger Moore era films. Connery on the other hand promoted product in a far more subtle way and made Rolex into the watch that people wanted.
Customers/users are not stupid and shouldn't be treated so, money making isn't easy. Quality in a crowded market where price is key isn't easy.
Good luck.

Well I've jumped in a [url= http://goo.gl/forms/ZtPSz1UvGd ]created a poll[/url] to judge the reaction.
Feel free to contribute.

Thumbs down from me. Though I can't really get as worked up about it as some have, seems to me the linking is so damn clumsy it's usually pretty obvious when its machine inserted (based on what I see on other sites, not seen many here). So it just looks s***.

Can it be configured to add what it considers to be relevant links underneath a post so it is clear they are ads, and doesn't disrupt the flow of the post?

i presumed it'd be a link to the thread, it's not, it's a (broken) John Lewis link.

I nearly made it a link to the thread, but laziness got the better of me. However the thought occurs that it can't add a link to something that's already a link, so is the solution to link-ify entire posts? I can mention macbook SSDs as much as I like then... :-)[/url]

Well I've jumped in a created a poll to judge the reaction.
Feel free to contribute.

I can see nothing wrong with a poll that allows multiple votes.

Maybe use [url= http://strawpoll.me/ ]strawpoll.me[/url] instead?

The other side, of course, is that it could stop lazy linking when you're forced to make it clear that you're directing readers to a linked page.

Nope still not seen here 🙂 It must be my naughty extensions causing it 😀

Allow us to vote on whether they should be allowed or not. And if allowed, make them only available on the non P profile and in a different colour as mentioned.

Oh dear, people seem to be getting their P in a twist. It's almost as if the high and mighty think a little letter gives them a rights or ownership of the site.

To be fair though, I pay a sub that goes towards paying for the upkeep of the site, as I find it a useful site so believe in assisting it. I've paid my cash, so why should I have to subsidise it further for you freeloaders 😉 ?

Not a fan at all, already been caught out a couple of times this morning before I spotted this thread. Thought the first was random, after the 2nd I started checking antivirus and chrome extensions.

Can understand looking to get revenue from non-subscribers, but surely "P" users shouldn't also be getting stung?

As an aside the two I clicked were both broken links, which only makes the whole thing even more annoying!

To be fair though, I pay a sub that goes towards paying for the upkeep of the site, as I find it a useful site so believe in assisting it. I've paid my cash

It's almost as if the high and mighty think a little letter gives them a rights or ownership of the site.

Can someone show this impertinent oik the door?

😀

Stato...Shhhh! You'll get all us non-Ps thrown out of the executive lounge!

Stato...Shhhh! You'll get all us non-Ps thrown out of the executive lounge!

To the outhouse you oiks!!!!

I'm no fan of skimlinks even on ad funded sites. They're just plain annoying and don't make me buy anything from said linked site, though I guess you make money from the click anyway.

However if for non 'P' folk it's seen as required either to generate money from the links or to push them into a sub, then I can live with that.

As a 'P'... [u]no[/u]! I'm paying for no ads. Risk losing subscriptions with these forced on premier folk.

Just encountered my first one of these cunningly 'hidden' in a thread with a load of genuine links.

Irritating on a practical level and definitely detracts from the user experience.

And really don't like it on an ethical level. Treating users as a commodity is one thing, rubbing our noses in it is quite another.

You know you can just run a plug in and never see a skim link (unless you're on Android, in which case you sold your soul to the Advertising Devil a long time ago).

They make the place feel a bit cheap, tbh.
And it feels deceitful.

Happy to contribute with the 'P', it's a great deal, but this is really off-putting.

How many skim link clicks = 1 subscription?

I'm going to offer up you close down Grit.CX as thats all but dead, that'll save a whole load of wasted cash on someones idea of it being the next big thing and squeezed a business case around "we'll get 1bn hits a week, and sell the Adv space to Tudor Watches or Bra/underwear chains" which seems to be your advertisers of choice these days.

Ain't that the truth!
I've just had a look on the Grit site and as much as I liked the couple of magazines I've read I can't bring myself to subscribe to it as I can't see it being around much longer.
Someone really ought to put that site out of it's misery and close it down.

Mark - I doubt 48 hours is sufficient to get a full idea of the "click revenue":

1. Once people start to realise there are "spam" links everywhere they will stop clicking them.
2. Once people get p-d off at the imposition of these links in their posts they will use the forum less.
3. If you impose these on P members they are less likely to renew = lower revenue. [I'm a lapsed P member who didn't bother to renew as my computer doesn't remember me and therefore I have to login all the time to get the benefit which doesn't suit browsing]
4. If you put enough in visitors may actually fall, and so other ad revenue will fall too.

FWIW experimenting on your content generators is not great form.

I thought I wasn't seeing skimlinks and that the M@cb00k S5D link above was a failed attempt by the poster to link to that thread, but it seems that I am.

From what I've seen here they're incredibly annoying and I'll either be obscuring brand names or not posting at all while they're switched on.

It's butchered the classifieds. 😀

I'm changing my "auto subscription" off.

[img] [/img]

I still haven't seen any auto links on here.

They seem to have everyone riled up! Where the hell are they ?

I've clicked on a few already, some accidentally, some to see if they were what I thought. A few hours test will give a massively distorted impression of the long term revenue - I for one would just stop clicking all links. I also think it makes the site seem like a cheapass spamfest, and don't believe that it can possibly be a good idea overall. I doubt I'd cancel my subscription or flounce off, but I would think "bunch of cock" quite often.

Seems as though this isn't going down too well!

Knowing the folks at STW, they'll no doubt take our feedback into account. The idea that they're money-grabbing is a bit much though, TBH. Comments like this one, for example:

Seems like you forum customers are pretty low on the list,just under MONEY MONEY MONEY

Firstly many of the forum users aren't "customers" as they don't pay STW anything (Premier folk and subscribers obviously an exception here).

Secondly I'm pretty sure that the STW team, one and all, could earn far more money doing other things, if that's what they were into. But they're also not a charity and they're perfectly entitled to try to make their business (more) profitable.

There seem to be a huge number of posts on here about things being money-grabbing or overpriced (whether that's labour charges in bike shops, or this, or other examples) and then similarly a lot of posts about employment or contractual stuff where people feel they're being underpaid, or that others should demand more. Does anyone see that there might be a link?

Another thumbs down - as others have said it is dishonest, making me look like I endorse something I don't endorse.

Firstly many of the forum users aren't "customers" as they don't pay STW anything

Not this again? Forum users are product sold to advertisers, not customers or consumers.

I'm a P. I don't like it. Even if it was obvious, double underline or different colour, it'd still be annoying.