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It's been mentioned at household wrighty a few times in the past, it's never materialised. Already booked our summer holiday which has turned out to be a bargain so we said we may treat the kids (ages 17/14) to a skiing holiday before daughter heads off to uni in 2020 and they really fancy it. We are complete novices with only me skiing in the past and that was a school trip 30 years ago. Firstly is there snow at the end of December in Bulgaria as we thought we could do the "new year" thing. Is Bulgaria any good, my sister (skiing vet) said yes. We certainly wont need a mass of black runs etc as we aren't going to be learning that quick and need gnar slopes. School hols are a must really, whether it be christmas or Feb 1/2 term. Help!
Went to Bulgaria for my first ever ski trip, Christmas 1997. The resort was green. Snow arrived midweek and it was ok, but I've never been back to bulgaria despite skiing every year since then (mostly two trips a year) - read into that what you will
if school holidays are a must, consider spending easter somewhere high - good snow base by then, much cheaper than half term, nicer weather ans longer days. If you really like the idea of half term, check out the UCPA family friendly offerings via Action Outdoors
Cant really do Easter due to close proximity to a levels starting. Well that's what I'm being told.
Ignore them. Easter will be fine in terms of exams
We had a great New Year in Sestriere (Base of the Turin Winter Olympics)
Lots of snow making equipment, so pretty snow sure and we got s cheapish deal through Crystal.
Otherwise you need to go high to guarantee snow in December.
<stuck record> Cervinia (flights to Milan) would fit your bill too </stuck record>
Any of the mid sized mountain areas are going to be a risk in December. You might get lucky and have lots of snow or unlucky and have nothing. The higher areas are always going to be snow sure. If price is a problem a lot resorts are cheaper just before and over Xmas as a lot in Europe will spend Xmas at home then go skiing after until the New Year.
UCPA. Great.
We've been skiing a few times at new year and had a bit of everything. Snow can be great but last winter it was ****ing awful! Although that was Pyrenees, but even there we've had decent snow around that time of year before...Alps would be better though...
As beginners you might not mind so much if ts a bit crap. So book somewhere that has a bit to do if therenisnt that much snow.
Never been to Bulgaria so can't comment on that.
Christmas/NY skiing is a bit of a lottery. Conditions wise, the trips I've done have been poor more often than good.
Defo check out UCPA, although be aware that there is an upper age limit. It's by far the most cost effective way for a ski-trip, particularly if you want lessons.
We always used to go in early Jan, and we have always had good snow in Tignes at that time. The UCPA in Val-claret (the highest of the Tignes ski resorts) come highly recommended.
If you're going to that area of the alps, I'd recommend flying to Lyon rather than Geneva. Flights and car hire tends to be cheaper - and the drive from the airport to the mountains is easier than trying to drive through Geneva.
Christmas isnt a big requirement it was just a nice idea. I'd much rather sack that idea off to make sure we got the snow. We may even consider a week off school now (I know) pre or post the feb half term, it literally halves the cost, but that call will be down to the kids.
If you can be flexible have a look at late deals in Jan. often deals about its a quiet time of the season, book late and go where the snow is. I will admit though that it is nice to have something booked to look forward to.
Find mates and other families who ski and borrow kit often lots in charity shops and TK max. No point spending a pile of cash if it’s the first time.
My top tip is get decent helmets (and goggles that don't clash) - learning to snowboard you will catch your heel edge at some point and bounce the back of your head off the piste and it will really hurt without a lid.
Consider having some lessons before you go - I learnt to snowboard 6 years ago and I knew I'd be the only novice on the trip. Did I want to spend the week learning to snowboard by myself or go snowboarding with everyone else?
I booked the learn to snowboard course they offered at the snowdome in Milton Keynes, which at the time cost about £200 (included a years membership of the snowdome (discounted entry on future visits), 8 hours tuition and some free slope time). I then went to practice more after I'd done the course. I spent my first trip improving my technique with everyone else rather than just learning to snowboard as a result.
+1 for getting a helmet - based on the dents in mine I would have hit my head several times
Have you thought about somewhere is Scandinavia, we are heading to äre for Xmas, pretty snow sure and the resort seems chilled (this is more a snow holiday that a boarding holiday though).
Would second getting lessons here first as that's what we did and it means you can go straight onto the slopes when it there.
and 3rd getting your own helmet, a concussion and losing a couple of days even with a helmet on means I now wear one on snow all the time
Got to disagree with the altitude stuff above. Whilst it was true 20 years ago, it is not so true nowadays. Nearly all resorts have snowmaking, choose one with excellent cover like sella Ronda.
Fair enough, you can't make much snow if it's too warm, but generally there will be some cold enough nights to make snow coming up to Christmas.
My top tip is get decent helmets (and goggles that don’t clash) – learning to snowboard you will catch your heel edge at some point and bounce the back of your head off the piste and it will really hurt without a lid.
Taking this one-step further, I restarted boarding again this year after a 15 year break as the wean wanted to try it.
I took my MTB kneepads, back protector and elbow pads with me. It was bloody excellent. High speed falls were a revelation..... Skidding down the piste like a turtle at high speed then getting back up and continuing without an ache or pain to be seen.
Get knee pads.
Also wrist protectors. My youngest bust his wrist in st Anton last year without them.
High speed falls were a revelation….. Skidding down the piste like a turtle at high speed
Clearly this is an exaggeration. Uncontrolled high speed falls are not to be condoned in the slightest. And at 47 years of age I would be flattering myself to claim I was ever going at high speed.
Nonetheless, elbows, WRISTS,knees arse and back are all worth padding up.
(Far less so if you're skiing)
Low profile knee pads are actually really good. Even if it's just for kneeling in the snow, keeps the knees warm. Which is great for the ageing snowboarder....
I've been to Bulgaria (Bansko) quite a few times, it's perfect for beginners & cheap too.
The downside is that it does get extremely busy around school holidays as a lot of the eastern European countries have the same holidays as the UK. There is only 1 Gondola, unless you get there early it can take a couple of hours to get up to the main slopes. The runs will also be trashed by lunchtime.
If you're set on the school holidays I'd look at one of the smaller resorts in Italy or France.
Firstly is there snow at the end of December in Bulgaria
You most certainly cannot count on that! The whole of the Alps is a snow lottery in late December. If you want to be reasonably sure of snow (and you should be) then I would go mid season (mid Feb - early March) and go reasonably high. You could be lucky in December and have great snow, but the odds are stacked against you, especially in Bulgaria. The good thing about going mid-season is that the snow base will be much higher and so even if it doesn't snow much while you are there, the pistes will still be in reasonable condition (providing it isn't too warm). As complete newbs you don't really need tons of fresh snow falling, just nicely groomed pistes with minimal ice.
Also a good idea to take a few snowdome lessons beforehand if you can. It will accelerate the learning curve no end. They are expensive, but worthwhile if you want to get the most out of your first mountain trip.
As others have said, consider lessons in the UK before going to maximise time on the slops.
Consider snowboarding as in my view the learning curve is steeper but you will get the ability to use more or the mountain more quickly, also it’s easier to progress year on year than skiing based on conversations with skiers, boarders and those who do both.
If you all choose the same discipline then when in resort you can consider a private lesson or two, you can use this to tweak technique and get a guide of the slopes, it might also allow you to cut the lift lines.
If going at Xmas consider a resort with a glacier your much more snow sure at ~3000m.
In Austria there are a few:
https://www.kitzsteinhorn.at/en
https://www.mayrhofen.at/en/winter/ski-resort/glacier-skiing/
Consider snowboarding as in my view the learning curve is steeper but you will get the ability to use more or the mountain more quickly, also it’s easier to progress year on year than skiing based on conversations with skiers, boarders and those who do both.
To balance this, skiing on hardpack, rutted piste with patches of ice (which is what you will be seeing a lot of in your early years) is less painful on skis.
But really it's all swings and roundabouts, just choose the one you like the look of most and you can always swap if you change your mind later. Skiing is ultimately more versatile when you get into it, but it's probably quicker to reach an intermediate level on a snowboard.
To balance this, skiing on hardpack, rutted piste with patches of ice (which is what you will be seeing a lot of in your early years) is less painful on skis.
But really it’s all swings and roundabouts, just choose the one you like the look of most and you can always swap if you change your mind later. Skiing is ultimately more versatile when you get into it, but it’s probably quicker to reach an intermediate level on a snowboard.
Completely and utterly agree.
Don't go in December for your first trip.
Short days, cold, not especialyl snow secure.
Easter is a MUCH better time of year to go. Go high, enjoy the sunshine.
Don't bother snowboarding (from a committed snowboarder) it is much easier to learn the basics of skiing and you'll be cruising around the blues very happily enjoying your holiday in no time (with lessons).
Re UCPA - you aren't going to be able to go as a family with your 14 year old on their normal weeks.
UCPA do however run family weeks over school holidays which may suit you (and then comments about upper age limit no longer apply)
Check out the English booking agent action outdoors for details.
I went a couple of years ago as a complete newbie. Had no snow at all, whole piste was incredibly hard packed and basically ice.
My major mistake was not switching from trying to learn snowboarding to ski-ing. It was miserable. Two of the learner group broke their wrists and even though I sort of got the hang of it I really should have been on skis.
my advice, let the conditions guide you, don’t set your heart on one or the other.
Seriously, there is a reason why snowboarding is a dying sport. Ski technology has improved so much from when the single track age demographic probably learnt to ski/board. You don't see young rad kids snowboarding around resort now.. it's all 40+ year old Dads.
Snowboards are fantastic fun in two situations 1) in the park and 2) freeriding off piste in powder.
Neither of which you will be doing for some time. Also, ski tech is pretty good for powder now with the fatties.
Ok also a third situation, boards are way more fun in spring slushy afternoons as well.
Snowboards are disadvantaged in EVERY way in normal resort riding on piste. They are incredibly poor compared to skis in patchy ice sketchy hard pack. It is a giant PITA not being able to stand up and stay still easily. PITA clipping in and out all the time. PITA on flat bits, especially as a beginner you won't be able to carry your speed well.
I've snowboarded since about 1999... and love it, but hardly ever ride resorts now.
I went snowboarding with about 10 beginner mates about 12 years ago at uni - not a single one of them still boards. They all moved over to skiing and progressed so much better and enjoyed their normal resort based holidays so much more.
Low profile knee pads are actually really good. Even if it’s just for kneeling in the snow, keeps the knees warm. Which is great for the ageing snowboarder….
+1 million. I now use my VPD Air pads more for boarding than biking. It was a blooming revelation when I first used them.
I don't bother wrist or arm guards as I've learned to fall over properly (don't put your arms out). Ass/cocyxx pad and back protector are useful.
To balance this, skiing on hardpack, rutted piste with patches of ice (which is what you will be seeing a lot of in your early years) is less painful on skis.
A lot of this depends what level.... there is some basic "well enough" meaning you can just go and do whatever comes up and easily avoid anything beyond your ability. By that I mean you can look at the map and decide where to go and there will likely be an easier way if part of it is beyond your current ability. For me snowboarding was much faster than skiing to get to this point.
I learned to ski "properly" and took a few dry slope lessons first (back in the 1980's) ... and took a few days to be at a level of going where I wanted... after that I got pretty good, especially the time I lived in Calgary where I was skiing competitively.
Then I moved to Oslo and the DH skiing was pretty boring pretty much anywhere I could drive at weekends... so bought a snowboard and boots.. about 2hrs later I was at a "good enough" level I could go more or less where I wanted (obviously nowhere near my skiing)... but not having to plan specific easy routes...
What I would say is this is a double edged sword.... if you can snowboard it will take a lot of commitment to then say start again and learn to ski... whereas if you learn to ski you can always spend a 1/2d and learn to snowboard "well enough". (Assuming you don't mind falling over)...
As moshimonster say's ... falling on ski's is way better than a snowboard whilst learning... especially when it's not nice fresh powder... things like catching the leading edge on a snowboard tend to result in hard faceplants...
They all moved over to skiing and progressed so much better and enjoyed their normal resort based holidays so much more.
As a 40-something who's never skied, even I'm coming around to the idea that maybe I should learn.
Thing is, I don't want to waste a holiday, or hurt myself...
young rad kids snowboarding around resort now
You do, but they are on their way to the park - much more slowly than their mates on skis 😛
it’s all 40+ year old Dads.
A good friend of mine who I ski with every year (he boards) contemplates going back to skis during every trip. I've been tempted to learn to board in the past, but I think that that boat has now sailed.
Snowboards are fantastic fun in two situations ..... 2) freeriding off piste in powder.
Neither of which you will be doing for some time.
What's your definition of some time. If he's sporty and has an aptitude for it then it would be eminently possible in a couple of days.
Big major proper IF though.
Skiing leads to better tomahawks and yardsales so i say go for that
Boarding vs skiing comes up on every thread.
they are just different things.
skiing for cruising and high milage, and boarding for being able to mess around (plus pow on a board is like nothing on earth).
I can do both and am happy with that, neither one is particularly better although I do prefer boarding.
I will say doing freestyle on ski's is terrifying, where on a board is a laugh.
Personally it just comes down to what you want to do, I want to play on stuff so will take a board in much the same way as I take my freestyle kayak instead of the river runner. It's harder work but can be more rewarding if you like that.
skiing for me is for lazy days and helping my 4 yr old learn
I skied up to 2000 then have boarded since then.
I have seen the trajectory of skis and appreciate there is no problem with them but having done both I'd far rather board
Having said that current conditions have me concluding its futile to expect conditions as they used to be only 15 years ago so I've pretty much stopped bothering going altogether
@grahamt1980 It snowed the other day in Åre , winter is on the way here...!
I can't wait. So looking forward to another country on the list, bringing board but going to get a set of ski's for a day when the kids are about.
are the lifts open on Xmas day? Otherwise I am hiking up
Thanks for all the replies. Lot to think about. Mrs ws has already said she will be skiing and not boarding. After some of the above comments I may too consider skiing. I have boarded a few times at snowdome and did the fast track course and picked it up pretty well. Got cocky and did catch a heel edge (arse facing down the slope?)and landed on the back of my head which proper took the wind out of me.
@grahamt1980 yes they are open. 24th is the biggest day mind. 8 vid 8an is big here. (8am by lift 8) for the fresh groomers and side country. Interestingly they call fresh corduroy pistes ‘Manchester’ because they think all corduroy trousers came from there. true fact!
Thanks for all the replies. Lot to think about. Mrs ws has already said she will be skiing and not boarding. After some of the above comments I may too consider skiing. I have boarded a few times at snowdome and did the fast track course and picked it up pretty well. Got cocky and did catch a heel edge (arse facing down the slope?)and landed on the back of my head which proper took the wind out of me.
I found boarding much quicker (already being proficient and competing skiing DH not really sure how much that helped or not)... but learning seemed to involve a LOT of similar incidents and much as these are fine in powder they are sure as heck a lot worse even on hard piste. Moreover..these just seemed to happen really quickly .. one second you were in control, the next your head is smacking the ice... whereas skiing you tend to progressively get out of control and when learning you can just chuck yourself into the slope...
Teach them all before you go if you have access to a dryslope or dome. I learnt to ski on holiday and picked it up quite quickly but did not like it at all. Learnt borading on a dryslope and love riding snowboards now. feels much more natural going sideways for fun.
I wear a helmet/ googles, wrist guards and knee pads.
I would always advocate learning to ski first and then turn to the dark side later if you are still curious. Over the last 20 years skiing has progressed enormously (ironically partly due to the influence of snow boarding) to the point where it is now infinitely easier to learn and progress than it was when I started in the mid 80s.
To sum it up, boards really suit powder conditions and tight, steep off-piste tree runs best and just about everywhere else skis are easier and safer - especially on icy hardpack. If I was a complete beginner, this is what I would be considering. But if conditions are right i.e. snowing like crazy with powder everywhere, then learning to board could be more rewarding and fun, at least initially. But the odds of seeing those conditions are stacked against you as a complete beginner. Be prepared more for heavily trafficked flattish hard-packed green and blue pistes, which are not much fun at all on a board.
I snowboarded in Bansko, Bulgaria for about 10 winter holidays and loved every one of them. We'd get up early enough to be at the head of the queue for the gondola opening every morning though, to get the best of the slopes. It's incredibly cheap, and the food / drink is great, although some of the bars were getting a bit seedy the last time I was there.
We always went late February - Early March as the prices were a bit cheaper. I remember hearing horror stories though about folk going in the early season, and there being no snow to talk of.
Bansko's cheap enough that private / family group lessons are a real option. I think the last time I snowboarded, it cost 60 euro for a half day private lesson, but getting a leg up in the snowdomes before you go is a sensible idea.