[Closed] Ski Lessons In France - ESF or alternative?

We went with ZigZag http://www.zigzagski.com/ and our instructor, Greg was amazing. Lessons were from Samoens, hopefully the link will be open in Feb, it's not a bad link over, apart from the Lanche lift being a bit rickety and slow.

We were staying with the Tasty Ski company in their Morillion chalet, the first morning they drove us over there, the rest of the week we skied over. It was our first time out on Mountains skiing so we did a few blues on the Sunday when we arrived (it was a bit of a shock coming from the Chill Factor in Manc!) then had group lessons Mon/Tues/Wed mornings, these were really good, there were a couple of people in the group that had over estimated their ability and halfway through the first morning Greg had radioed the instructor in the beginners group and met up to drop them off and pick up one from them that was doing really well. It was all very relaxed and you then had the afternoon to practice your new found mad skilllllz.

Thursday we booked Greg for a private lesson for my wife and I, this was perfect, we'd had time to build our confidence over a few days then really nail some new stuff (carving in powder!) on some closed pistes.

Damn, i really want to go skiing now.

Think carefully about dry slope sessions. So many people fall badly and wrench a thumb by catching it in the webbing then have to cancel the trip.

Our experience of ESF is that the instructor will form you into a long line and say; "Follow me!"  Private lessons with a specialist will get you proper instruction.

Private lessons with a specialist will get you proper instruction

Sometimes.  I've also booked private for a longer time and it's been pants.    It sounds like you might be looking for lessons for children though and in that case groups can be fun for having other similar people to ski with.  I've tried both with my daughter and now we prefer non-ESF schools with smaller numbers as being better.

Think carefully about dry slope sessions. So many people fall badly and wrench a thumb by catching it in the webbing then have to cancel the trip.

This +loads.

Before we met, my other half went for dry-slope lessons before her first ever ski trip. She fell, and broke her forearm in two places. That's had two effects; she still went on the trip, but couldn't ski, and each time she's tried skiing since she's been petrified about falling again, so she won't relax and has really, really struggled to progress.

Dry slope lessons will gain you a morning on snow's lessons when you're there, tops. I just wouldn't bother.

Is there a fridge near you where you can do some "wet slope" lessons with real snow?

Way less likely to end in injury than dry slope IMO.

Nearest fridge is 3hrs+ drive away.  However, The Lecht ski centre is circa 1 hour....so hopefully some time to play on snow before we go.

Must admit I first started on a dry slope many moons ago and spent most weekends up at Hillend - so well aware of the challenges of the dry slope however I also think it provides a good grounding.  My thumb still hurts when it is cold 'though!

Jnr has been taking weekly lessons at the local dry slope for a while now and the difference between start point and now is significant.

In terms of equipment, helmets are obviously a must, but does anyone wear back protection?  Note, pisted runs are likely our play area.

Thanks.

Never wear back protection. Only wear a helmet cos PX were selling them for a tenner, which was cheaper than buying a hat.

Jnr has been taking weekly lessons at the local dry slope for a while now and the difference between start point and now is significant.

I think the 'Jnr' bit is key; young'uns find it much easier to learn as they're (generally) fearless. Grown-ups think about the consequences of falling too much, so tense up, and then they're buggered.

One thing to consider about private (i.e. non-group, whether ESF or not) lessons though; they're typically at lunchtime, 12-2, so it can be tricky logistically, especially f you're in a group and all wan to meet up for lunch etc.

ESF v Other (legit) school - it doesn't really matter.  Choose based on who offers what you want (price, timing, language, location in the resort).  Moderate this by speaking to people in / who know the resort (start with scaled!  who did you book through?  do you know anyone out there?) for specific recommendations.

Group v Private - private lessons are usually more than worth the extra cost.  but that extra cost can be enormous... we've always ended up paying for fewer private lessons for our little one rather than putting them in groups for longer.  but we like skiing the rest of the time with our kids.  Once they are a bit better, group skiing might pay off because advanced groups seem to do more interesting things that private lessons.

We've used ESF in France, a different one in Andorra Grandvalirra, and ESI 360 in Samoens and out of the 3 we preferred ESI 360. They were great.

These were all for our kids but ESF didn't speak English, which for 4/5 year olds was rerquired, and massive groups compared to others. Andorra one were nice generally Irish instructors it seemed, but they were a bit slack with timings. 360 in Samoens were great, lovely instructors, all French but very good English speaking, kids came on really well with them. I think they have an office in Morillon as well. 360 were cheaper than ESF and Zig Zag (who were the most expensive, but have the nicest Jackets), but they had the smallest group sizes as well!

As above really. I prefer private to groups if he cost differential can be swallowed.  I'm not quite sure but it sounds like you need instruction for both junior and wife? in which case I doubt they'd end up in the same ski school group.

ESF instructors vary hugely as can other larger ski schools.  In North America (in general) the private instructors are likely more experienced / better than group instructors.

As a level 2 BASI British snowsports ski  instructor and currently training to be a level 3, I feel I can have an input in this under the ESF or 'alternative'.

I can't stress enough that there is in fact a huge difference between the two, that's the main thing.

We were actually talking about it at the dinner table last night, a few of us. One of the guys I'm currently living with has trained through the French and British system and is now converting to the Swiss system for his next job. But anyway, we all came to the agreement that the ESF instructors are extremely good skiers, perhaps superior to the top end British instructors as they have to do lot more race training and generally start racing through gates (slalom and giant slalom) from a young age, BUT that the British system has a better approach and possibly more emphasis on the learning and teaching side. Now for me, I want my instructor / trainer to be able to teach properly, I don't care if he was an ex world cup racer or whatever. The main thing you are paying for is the instructing. But with ESF, they seem to care more that you are a ninja on skis in order for you to be qualified, and that the instructing is (almost) slightly secondary.

My advice would be to find a ski school with BASI ski instructors.

Private versus group - with the right instructor, you'll learn so much in three hours with a good instructor in a private lesson that you shouldn't need much more than that. Down to cost really.

The ESF are HUGE and have some great people

but, their methodology / focus tends to be on race performance, so after your weeks “instruction” the Friday AM classes do a GS type test

if your kids “fail” the test, they get nowt, more often crying / upset and discouraged

the independents  , go for lunch, celebrate their weeks achivements together and have fun , and it works, kids enjoy their time , engage with each other and their moniteur du Ski

the right style of teaching and experience will see your kids progress fast and set them up for more season after season

for me Oxygene have been great for kids Ski / snowboard and private telemark coaching

but I’m not sure if they’re in your resort

don't do ESF, they will take you through the snowplough, stem christie, 'parallel' turn factory and in the end you will likely be stuck as a terminal intermediate with loads of bad habits. And thinking that your aim is to keep your feet close together and wiggle a lot !

Skis nowadays are not like the old ones with just a wide nose and encouraging you to skid your turns, you can pretty much carve a smooth arc by just lifting the weight off one leg.

Find a decent independant.

I say this to people at work going skiing for the first time and then they come back with stories of snowploughing and stem-christies and panic turns, just like I warned against.

What Michaelmcc says rings so true. ESF seem like they’re  there as an employment route for a lot of failed racers. BASI or the North American qualis are there as a method of teaching instructors to how to teach effectively.

I’ve watched esf (and ex-Austrian and national ski school) classes with horror as crocodiles of 15, 20 or even 30 small children have been goaded down various slopes with the single instructor and class spread dozens of metres up and down the piste. Those at the back must get absolutely no value at all from the sessions.

The Lanche chair has been decommissioned and there's now a fast 8 seater in lieu of it so getting to Samoens should be easier.

Zag instructors always looked like they were paying attention to their students rather than the ESF skiing off down the mountain with a train behind them.

Ski Catherine in Flaine specialises teaching children only.

Make sure you ski the green Marvel in Morillon, you can thank me later 🙂

Think I used 360 Ski School (it seems to have moved from the building right near the main lift) for some private snowboard lessons when I was in that area. Really good instructor and the area is great.

I'd go private if you don't want to be in lessons most days, and particularly if there are certain things you want to work on.

I think some of the comments about ESF are a little unfair, they do have some very good instructors.  Particularly some of the younger ones our kids have had have brought them on massively.

That said, we don't tend to use ESF anymore since they 'lost' our 6 year old on the mountain.  Fortunately another instructor found him sitting by the piste in his ESF bib crying and managed to reunite him with the group a while later.  Obviously we only found this out when we spoke to our son about his lesson in the afternoon and when we tried to talk to the instructor the following morning he 'forgot' all the English he was speaking fluently up to that point and couldn't understand my poor French.

When you've got 20 kids following one instructor it only takes one at the back to fall at they'd never know.

I don't know about Morillon but we've used Oxygene Ski School a few times and they've been excellent.  I'd echo the private lesson route.  Have a 3 hour private morning lesson early on in the holiday then spend a few days bedding in what you've learnt, then another 3 hours morning on day 3 or 4 to fix any issues and progress further...

Have a 3 hour private morning lesson early on in the holiday then spend a few days bedding in what you’ve learnt, then another 3 hours morning on day 3 or 4 to fix any issues and progress further…

I always plan to do this, and then never manage it - must try harder this coming season

Thanks all.

A very positive response from ESI360 and prices not too shabby.

Now to the times...

We have been offered 1230 > 1430 or 1400 > 1630

Any of these times better?  Obviously the later slot comes with 30 mins extra....

Thanks.